Uninvited to family wedding

[R0SEMARY]

Sorry this is long as there’s a lot of background and I don’t want to drip feed. Names/ details changed of course.

I’ve been married for 20 years to John, we have teenage kids together and John has a daughter, Helen, from a previous marriage. Helen is in her 30s and so was a teenager when I married her father. And no, I was not the OW - they were divorced years before we met.

Our marriage has been very difficult for the last 10 years, mostly because of my husband’s many affairs (among other things) . I’ve tried to leave several times but it’s complicated and I’ve stayed for the sake of the children. It’s bearable because he works away a lot and we pretty much lead separate lives.

When Helen was a teenager she lived with us for half the week. This was hard for me, I will admit, because she had a lot of behavioural issues and was very challenging. I tolerated a lot of verbal abuse and inappropriate behaviour as I knew she was troubled and unhappy. She was occasionally physically aggressive towards me, especially when I was pregnant.

After she left home things got better of course and during her 20s and 30s we have got on OK. She lives at the other end of the country with her girlfriend so we only meet up a few times a year but keep in touch by phone, what’s app, zoom etc .

They are getting married this autumn, postponed from last year. We are all involved - my teenagers are bridesmaids / ushers - it’s been years in the planning. Naturally I have my Step MOB outfit and I’ve arranged ( booked and paid for ) a week’s holiday for us all around the event, as it’s a 9 hour drive away.

However my husband has always struggled with Helen’s sexuality. He disliked her last girlfriend and really hates her current fiancée ( says she’s fat and ugly ) but I’ve always tried to smooth things over and persuade him to keep on good terms with them both. He originally didn’t want anything to do with the wedding, partly because he hates her girlfriend and partly because he has an issue with same sex relationships in general. He still thinks it’s a phase that Helen will grow out of ( sorry I know that’s offensive ).

However I talked him round and made all the arrangements so he can’t say it’s too much hassle. He didn’t even want to walk her down the aisle but I persuaded him to suggest instead that she ask her mum as they are closer.

Then tonight, out of the blue, Helen phoned me to say that she doesn’t want me at her wedding any longer but she still wants my husband and children to attend.

I was absolutely gobsmacked. We’ve been talking about this wedding for three years, I’ve helped her choose bridesmaids dresses, flowers, menu etc (at her request). She wouldn’t say why she was doing this.

There’s been no arguments or falling out of any kind - all recent conversions have been about the wedding, her work, her cats etc.

Of course I asked her father what was going on and after a long conversation he admitted that he has been lying to Helen about me for years. Basically all the negative and nasty things he has been saying to me about her, he has told her that I said them, not him.

I am so shocked. Ever since I’ve known him he’s been complaining to me about her. About her refusing to attend school as a teenager, about her self harming ( which he said was just attention seeking ), her lies and stealing, her sexuality, career choices, her dropping out of university, cheating on her previous partner, her character, her lack of religion ( he is from a conservative religious background and raised her in it ).

I’ve spent years listening to him talk about her . So often I’ve defended her and tried to get him to be a little more open minded about her beliefs and lifestyle. Persuaded him to be polite to her partners and talked about their good points. Made the effort to keep in touch, sending gifts and cards etc.

Don’t get me wrong, some of what he complains about is right and I’ve agreed with him . But I’ve never said it to anyone except him and I assumed that what we said was between us. It never crossed my mind that he was telling her anything that we discussed. It’s one of the few things I thought we were united on - that we support each other in dealing with her. Even during her adult life there’s been a lot of drama and I’ve always supported him.

And now I discover he has been undermining me to her for all these years. I’ve worked so hard to try to keep things friendly and to keep open the lines of communication and he’s been working against me behind my back.

It’s not that I thought DH loved me - I’m not under any illusion about that. He only stays because he likes the domestic servicing and he doesn’t have to pay child support or parent his children.

But I just don’t understand why he would tell all these lies for years. Why would anyone do that ? I’m just so shocked I don’t know what to think or what to do.

Thinking about this, in a few days, beware, Helen will be eagerly awaiting a response from you Rosemary. Her smirk on the zoom call was phase one of her job well done. She knows she ripped the rug out from under you the other night, but she'll be expecting you to have dusted yourself down and formulated a defense which she will enjoy decimating. And, I bet this is how she sees phase two going. You feel so guilty and desperate to make everything right that you reach out to her, and she can enjoy agreeing to forgive you, on condition that...... x,y,z. She is probably excited for the opportunity she sees coming to renegotiate the relationship but with more POWER.

I don't know this woman from Adam but I'm delighted that she'll be sitting there watching the tumbleweed roll by on her phone screen and no response from you. No defense. No appeal. No conciliatory let's agree to disagree. No negotiations to keep things sweet on the surface. No gifs. No memes. Just nothing. I can see her checking her phone.
She didn't intend you to completely drop the rope!
She'll be furious. She wants you on the other end of that rope pulling.

She'll have been feeling buoyed up, and then when there's no response, she'll feel a bit flat again.

ha ha

The only reason I can think of for him saying these things to her is because he saw it as a way of voicing his concerns but still able to maintain a relationship with her as they've apparently come from you. It's despicable behaviour never the less!

@Number3BigCupOfTea very good point

Rosemary, this is all awful, and I'm very sorry you're going through it. It's no way for you to be repaid for the years of genuine kindness and understanding you've shown them both. But they are incapable of behaving better, it looks like.

You really need to remove yourself from the firing line.

Helen is enraged because she didn't anticipate that your kids would decide (themselves, not manipulated) not to go. She is the one who wants to manipulate and force them into going. You're just a tool that she will use without compunction to make what she wants happen.

The way out is super easy. Don't ever talk to her again. Tell your kids that her behaviour is too much, and she clearly doesn't want to have anything to do with you, so you're leaving her be. And reassure them they have your support if they want to go, or if they don't. I know it will be a bit like taking sides for them, but that's not your fault - you didn't set up this conflict of loyalties. Also reassure your son that he can't be forced.

She will of course hate the lack of response, but that's way the best way to deal with her.

I would even drop the subject with him. It's come out even more now what a bugger he is. I don't think I'd do anything hasty but just come to terms with who he is first.

Be happy. You are free of her. Don't feel you owe her anything. You've more than paid any dues. Now quietly close the case and let her get on with it.

Thank you @muppette. So many of you have written kind and thoughtful posts and I’m sorry I’ve not name checked everyone.

So glad you've seen her for what she is. I really feel for you and especially for your children, being pulled into this.

I think Helen could be a bit of a useful 'tool' for you to demonstrate how you don't have to tolerate shitty people in life.
I'd be saying things like 'life is too short for Helens dramas', and 'Helen needs to learn how to treat people' etc.

Your kids have already done great work in not allowing Helen to force them to her wedding, but even talking to a toxic baggage like Helen is, IMO, too much.

It's all control, control, control! The fact she was so appalled that you'd offer or allow your children a choice is so telling isn't it. And the - we didn't say you should give them a choice. As if she and Katy are in charge of how you interact with your dcs! As if she really and truly expected to be able to just manoeuvre everyone into position.
The narcissistic rage on discovering she wasn't able to control anyone and make people do exactly what she wanted...it's very powerful, and SO so unpleasant to be on the other end of that!
You've dealt with it brilliantly.

I don’t know where you get there patience @R0SEMARY and where Helen gets the energy for all these dramas.

Stop playing their games, support your children and make your escape plans. Good luck

I hope you are doing ok @R0SEMARY they have now given you the gift of making it so very very easy to walk away.

Ok for now you still have to live with John but emotionally you can detach. You can't reason with narcissists so you no longer need to even waste your intellect or emotions on trying to resolve or fix anything for either of them.

A state of detachment is a nice retreat from emotional abuse. It's calm and serene and getting your ducks in a row to split so much easier.

Find enough anger to fight for a true fair share of the assets John is likely to go full on narcissist evil when you divorce. He won't care about living standards for you or the DC.

You are in for a rough ride but in the end you will be free from a life of drama and happier. Hang on in there

Thank you @FantasticButtocks ( great name BTW), all your posts have been so helpful.

Yes you are right it’s all about control. She has now sent a hate filled email to John but with instructions to show it to me of course. I have only skim read it as if it get into the detail I will want to reply.

And I know that’s completely the wrong thing to do. The best thing now is to let her rant to whoever she wants. The worse she gets and the more vile things she says , the more the teens are scared of her and want nothing to do with her.

I'd cut contact with all of them and get on with your life and your children's lives. Your children will decide whether they want to see their father. Honestly free yourself from the stress it's just not worth the headspace. You sound like a nice lady who deserves better.

I cut contact with my brother and his toxic wife 4 years ago, too long a story to go into but its liberating to be free of the drama, the hurt they have caused my parents I will never forgive. And ignoring my children after their father passed away I cannot forgive either. Free yourself you will feel so much better x

Thank you for thinking of me @RandomMess. As I’m a NC regular here I know that you’ve had health problems recently and I hope you are keeping better .

Tell him to reply and say you weren't interested in reading it. That will really wind her up.

What a horrid thing to have to read, on what should be a lovely Friday.

I bet John is loving all this, so he's spouted lies about you, and somehow you are in the receiving end of all the abuse and he, and Helen are the victims.

As for the email I'd, shrug your shoulders and say 'Meh' about it all and try and forget it. Try and have a good day with your dc. Don't mention it again. The more air time you give it with John the more he will secretly enjoy it.

Not your circus, not your monkeys any longer

Try to resist the urge to reply to her maniacal rants it's just fuels the drama. Trust me ignoring her will get the point across, then leave with your kids and let them all get on with it

Thank you, it's slow progress!!

A hate mail, there's a surprise. I would refuse to read any of them from now on.

What a dick John is to even let you see them rather than just saying "Helen is on a vitriolic rant again". He seems to get off on it all too doesn't he?

I think it's a way of seeing that they are real, that they matter.

My own narc can't understand that we have a life, we can't drop everything to do what they want when they want.
That triggers a terrible insecurity in her, so we have regular dramas where we effectively reassure her she exists and matters.

Our life isn't real to her, she never asks about it, has no interest, so can't understand that we aren't permanently available to her- but only at the moment we're wanted.

Why did your dh show you the email? I would expect my dh to reply with a fuck off don't be so nasty/ridiculous....and probably not even a mention to me....

You seem to be minimising his role in this.....

Just Stop playing their game....he says email from Helen...you say thars nice dear/ or an mummy
Change subject..move on...
Do not read the email...
Do not answer the phone..
Don't ask anything about her/wedding anything..
They've made there bed let'em lie in it..

This probably has been building over years but there us nothing you can do about it now except try and protect your DC ...I couldn't stay married to someone who had lied about me fir all those years Who seems to have no remorse over that ...

Our life isn't real to her, she never asks about it, has no interest, so can't understand that we aren't permanently available to her- but only at the moment we're wanted

Yes that’s exactly the same here. Last year Peter did very well in his exams, much better than Helen did at that stage. She never send a card or even a text to say well done - I think that really hurt him.

I am really clear in my own mind that I now won’t be replying to anything from Helen. As someone said, she has given me the gift of making it really easy to cut all contact.

John is REALLY confused by it all. After the phone call drama I thought he was just exhausted. But it now transpires that he is very confused. He said “ I’m the master manipulator but now I don’t know what’s going on “.

He thought she would be devastated by his revelation of huge lies going back 20 years. I guess he thought he was in control of what she thought and how she behaved, and he could pull her strings like a puppet master.

But in fact she didn’t care one single bit. She CBA to even waste 5 mins of her time listening to him. It was bizarre.

I guess it’s because she has already decided that I’m the scapegoat, and that nothing he has done has made much of a difference to that. He thought he was in control of her, but in fact she was controlling him.

I’m not the scapegoat because of the lies he has told. I’m the scapegoat because she needs someone to blame for the bad things that have happened in her life, most of which she has caused herself. Even things that she didn’t cause, she made so much worse by her bad behaviour. She says and does really nasty and spiteful things to everyone.

I think that John thought he had the power to hurt her by his words, but in fact she doesn’t care what he says or thinks , just as long as he DOES what she wants. He believed that she loved him and needed his approval. But now he can see that she doesn't care about him, only what he can do for her.

It’s much harder to control people who don’t love you.

Oh I don’t know - this is all so complex and I’ve having to undo how I’ve been thinking for the last 20 years. Or perhaps all my life.

But the main thing for me is that I don’t have to deal with her anymore. And my kids are backing away fast.

@R0SEMARY

Thank you *@FantasticButtocks* ( great name BTW), all your posts have been so helpful.

Yes you are right it’s all about control. She has now sent a hate filled email to John but with instructions to show it to me of course. I have only skim read it as if it get into the detail I will want to reply.

And I know that’s completely the wrong thing to do. The best thing now is to let her rant to whoever she wants. The worse she gets and the more vile things she says , the more the teens are scared of her and want nothing to do with her.

She even tries to dictate that he shows the email to you! Micromanaging everyone to this degree for anyone else would be exhausting, but for her it is fulfilling a need.

How John's pride will be wounded that she beat him at his own game.

That he sees nothing wrong in manipulating people that he freely admits it!!!

It's mind blowing.

I hope you are ok it's actually very traumatic to have everything you believed ripped up and shredded in such a few short days.

Is it in some way satisfying for you to see him realise he isn't in control like he thought he was - after what he has done to you for the duration of your marriage? It would be for me. But I'm petty like that.

I am impressed with how you're dealing with this for yourself and your children.

Helen seems to be a true narcissist and only loves herself - Kate is going to end up in deep shit eventually.

Please teach u to our DC about narcissism, that there is nothing they can do and they aren't to blame. Hopefully they will recognise their Dad is similar too.

@grapewine

Is it in some way satisfying for you to see him realise he isn't in control like he thought he was - after what he has done to you for the duration of your marriage? It would be for me. But I'm petty like that.

I am impressed with how you're dealing with this for yourself and your children.

I'll sit on the petty bench with you - I was gleeful reading that John feels out-manipulated!

Worrashame, eh? She's learnt from the master and outdone him. He only has himself to blame for it though - what his "nurture" didn't achieve, his handed-down nature would have.

Well done @R0SEMARY for refusing to read the email or reply to it. She will likely ramp up the attack so if you haven't already blocked her number, please do so (I think you have, but do make sure) - she's after a response from you because she's feeding off your distress. If you cut off her supply, she will try harder and harder to get a response so she can get her "hit" again. "Emotional vampires" is a useful term I learnt when it comes to these types - they WANT you to hurt, so you leak emotional energy, which they then suck up. That's why it's so draining to deal with them!

Keep on keeping on with your plans to get away from the toxic mess.