Uninvited to family wedding

[R0SEMARY]

Sorry this is long as there’s a lot of background and I don’t want to drip feed. Names/ details changed of course.

I’ve been married for 20 years to John, we have teenage kids together and John has a daughter, Helen, from a previous marriage. Helen is in her 30s and so was a teenager when I married her father. And no, I was not the OW - they were divorced years before we met.

Our marriage has been very difficult for the last 10 years, mostly because of my husband’s many affairs (among other things) . I’ve tried to leave several times but it’s complicated and I’ve stayed for the sake of the children. It’s bearable because he works away a lot and we pretty much lead separate lives.

When Helen was a teenager she lived with us for half the week. This was hard for me, I will admit, because she had a lot of behavioural issues and was very challenging. I tolerated a lot of verbal abuse and inappropriate behaviour as I knew she was troubled and unhappy. She was occasionally physically aggressive towards me, especially when I was pregnant.

After she left home things got better of course and during her 20s and 30s we have got on OK. She lives at the other end of the country with her girlfriend so we only meet up a few times a year but keep in touch by phone, what’s app, zoom etc .

They are getting married this autumn, postponed from last year. We are all involved - my teenagers are bridesmaids / ushers - it’s been years in the planning. Naturally I have my Step MOB outfit and I’ve arranged ( booked and paid for ) a week’s holiday for us all around the event, as it’s a 9 hour drive away.

However my husband has always struggled with Helen’s sexuality. He disliked her last girlfriend and really hates her current fiancée ( says she’s fat and ugly ) but I’ve always tried to smooth things over and persuade him to keep on good terms with them both. He originally didn’t want anything to do with the wedding, partly because he hates her girlfriend and partly because he has an issue with same sex relationships in general. He still thinks it’s a phase that Helen will grow out of ( sorry I know that’s offensive ).

However I talked him round and made all the arrangements so he can’t say it’s too much hassle. He didn’t even want to walk her down the aisle but I persuaded him to suggest instead that she ask her mum as they are closer.

Then tonight, out of the blue, Helen phoned me to say that she doesn’t want me at her wedding any longer but she still wants my husband and children to attend.

I was absolutely gobsmacked. We’ve been talking about this wedding for three years, I’ve helped her choose bridesmaids dresses, flowers, menu etc (at her request). She wouldn’t say why she was doing this.

There’s been no arguments or falling out of any kind - all recent conversions have been about the wedding, her work, her cats etc.

Of course I asked her father what was going on and after a long conversation he admitted that he has been lying to Helen about me for years. Basically all the negative and nasty things he has been saying to me about her, he has told her that I said them, not him.

I am so shocked. Ever since I’ve known him he’s been complaining to me about her. About her refusing to attend school as a teenager, about her self harming ( which he said was just attention seeking ), her lies and stealing, her sexuality, career choices, her dropping out of university, cheating on her previous partner, her character, her lack of religion ( he is from a conservative religious background and raised her in it ).

I’ve spent years listening to him talk about her . So often I’ve defended her and tried to get him to be a little more open minded about her beliefs and lifestyle. Persuaded him to be polite to her partners and talked about their good points. Made the effort to keep in touch, sending gifts and cards etc.

Don’t get me wrong, some of what he complains about is right and I’ve agreed with him . But I’ve never said it to anyone except him and I assumed that what we said was between us. It never crossed my mind that he was telling her anything that we discussed. It’s one of the few things I thought we were united on - that we support each other in dealing with her. Even during her adult life there’s been a lot of drama and I’ve always supported him.

And now I discover he has been undermining me to her for all these years. I’ve worked so hard to try to keep things friendly and to keep open the lines of communication and he’s been working against me behind my back.

It’s not that I thought DH loved me - I’m not under any illusion about that. He only stays because he likes the domestic servicing and he doesn’t have to pay child support or parent his children.

But I just don’t understand why he would tell all these lies for years. Why would anyone do that ? I’m just so shocked I don’t know what to think or what to do.

TBH I think that you are giving all this far too much head space. Block her from your phone and social media and then forget about her. Your kids can choose to do what they like. There, sorted for you ............................... xxxxx

Oh wow.
Helen is all kinds of crazy bitch. I’d be counting the minutes until they’re out of my life.
Honestly OP I don’t think they’d be in touch with your kids much, they sound too self absorbed.

Op a psychiatrist can't fix this. Your marriage is over. Make John ema8her a confession of all his lies and walk away. You and your children are more important than this ridiculous freak show.

@bombastical

Copy the link to this thread. Send it to her in an email. Don’t say anything else. Just send the link and “I hope you’ll read this. It’s very important” Don’t get involved in a slanging match or a back and forth. Keep your powder dry. Your husband is a nasty nasty man. You deserve better than this. There’s something very very wrong with him. If it was me, I’d say no more to him about anything. Ever. Do not get involved anymore about the wedding. Cancel everything. If he’s going, he can make his own arrangements. Get as much money back for things as you can. You cannot win this one. He’s fucked you over. You’ve been chucked under the bus. I’m actually struggling to know what to say because I’ve never read anything quite so deliberately nasty. Do nothing for him. Why don’t you divorce him? Your kids are now teens. Send them the link to this thread too so he doesn’t and can’t do the same to them. He’s going to ruin your entire life if you don’t get rid of him and go absolutely zero contact with him. You cannot do anything with a person like him apart from cut him off. From today he is dead to you.

This. Copy this link and send to your step daughter. It says everything and is written in a calm and objective way. She would have to be very cold hearted not to take this post seriously and apologise/reinvite you to her wedding. I think it would be better than a personal letter explaining. Good luck.

I'm going to say, Helen has problems you can't fix and aren't responsible for. BUT I can see how you and H sitting down presenting a united front, albeit talking about lies that have been told in the past, would be enraging to her.

She doesn't know who she can believe, out of you and her father. You KNOW you can't believe a word either she or he says. So there's absolutely nothing to be achieved by raking over things with either of them.

I don't mean this harshly - I mean in the sense of self-preservation, for you and your children. You're enmeshed and you have to detatch.

@R0SEMARY I am in awe of your composure, your readiness to self-examine, and your fairness to all the other people in this exhausting draining situation.

I hope you are able to extricate yourself and your DC from this messy toxic emotional dynamic with as much grace as is possible. I hope you have good RL friends & support to help you - you certainly deserve it.

And ask around in MN for a SHL (shithotlawyer) for the divorce.

Go for gold in the divorce. You have behaved with dignity and compassion. Remember you are entitled to 1/2 (at least) of everything, house business, pensions.

Best of luck you sound a super mum.

Sending links of what random strangers on the internet think will acheive nothing positive and probably add a narrative of how you are talking about family issues to everyone.

Show your own kids that it's not right to stand for abuse. Start separation and divorce procedures.

Have only necessary communication with third parties.

Good luck.

DON'T send a link to this thread.
There is far too much advice on here for @R0SEMARY for her to be sharing any of it with Helen and/or John (who no doubt would get sent the link from Helen)

I don't think you should send a link to this thread to Helen, or anyone for that matter. Concentrate on getting a good divorce lawyer, focus on living apart from your appalling H and his demented daughter and detach, detach, detach. Go grey rock on them both.

Don't send a link to this thread. There is no need to communicate with Helen at all. If nothing else, last night's conversation showed that contact with her is hurtful to you and she doesn't listen anyway. Step away from it all.

Here's to your future free from this toxic mess.

Another one not to send her a link to this. She's so messed up in her head she still won't see any reason. You'll be wasting your time. Your only solution is to leave. You're entitled to half of everything anyway so go to a solicitor now and don't let this drag on any longer. You need both of these people out of your life.

You have spent years trying to build relationships with your husband and Helen and are finding out that it was a complete waste of time. Your time would be best spent engaging a shl and devoting your energies to your children who must have been traumatised by these revelations. Nothing can fix the relationship between you and Helen atm. Your focus needs to be solely on yourself and your children, and frankly just because she is their half sister doesn’t automatically mean she should be in their lives. Drop the rope!

I can’t tell you how much all your comments are helping me. Even the ones that are critical let me see it from another point of view.

When you have lived with all this bat shit craziness for two decades it’s really hard to see things objectively. In our culture it’s frowned upon to discuss family matters with anyone outside, that’s considered very shameful and the most important thing is to keep up appearances.

So it’s hard to get an honest outside opinion.

That’s also why Helen is going ballistic that her siblings won’t attend her wedding. It’s not that she particularly loves them or cares about them as individuals. But she thinks she will lose face if they don’t attend and she has no way of explaining it.

The reality is of course that no one will care and in fact hardly anyone will even notice. No one there ( apart from the two brides ) has ever even met them, as Helen and Katy live hundreds of miles away from us.

It’s all about how things will look.

No-one should EVER send links to threads they've started about family members/friends on here. To even think that anyone would be able to read random strangers' opinions on them and take anything positive from that, shows an amazing lack of imagination and empathy.

Imagine that the person you despise most in the world started a thread about you (from their perspective, and of course we only hear one side) and people talk about you being narcissistic and insane. Do you honestly think you'd read it, reflect, and resolve to be a better person?
That someone here thinks that Helen would read all this and decide that yes, she should invite OP to her wedding, beggars belief.

Realistically it would fuck with the mental health of even the most robust person. And ruin any family/friendship group forever.

Ah well.
If she's so worried about saving face, she should have thought about that before she barred you from the wedding.
She overplayed her hand - thought she had more "control" than she actually does - and now she's finding out she's wrong, so is trying to throw her weight around even more to get everyone to kowtow to her demands.

Live and learn, Helen, live and learn.

@R0SEMARY

So I can think of several explanations .

1. John had phoned her before and told her it was an all act.

1. She is mentally unwell and can’t hear information that doesn’t fit in her worldview.

1. She doesn't want to fall out with him as he has money.

Kids never want to think poorly of their own parents. It's easier for her to make you the scapegoat. Even if she believed John was at fault, she'd still convince herself that you made him that way.

I would stop engaging on the topic with her if I were you. Your kids have made their decisions, she's been clear that she blames you for everything....don't give it any more of your time.

Why would anyone do that ?

OP read back your post. Everything about your H is horrific, he is a disgusting piece of sh1t. Why would he lie to your daughter about you? Because he's a piece of sh1t - there really isn't more to it than that.

Why you stay with him and put up with his appalling behaviour and treatmen of you, is the real question.

@saraclara

No-one should EVER send links to threads they've started about family members/friends on here. To even think that anyone would be able to read random strangers' opinions on them and take anything positive from that, shows an amazing lack of imagination and empathy.

Imagine that the person you despise most in the world started a thread about you (from their perspective, and of course we only hear one side) and people talk about you being narcissistic and insane. Do you honestly think you'd read it, reflect, and resolve to be a better person?
That someone here thinks that Helen would read all this and decide that yes, she should invite OP to her wedding, beggars belief.

Realistically it would fuck with the mental health of even the most robust person. And ruin any family/friendship group forever.

No-one should EVER send links to threads they've started about family members/friends on here.

TOTALLY agree with saraclara.

It would be hurtful and humiliating to genuine individuals, and would just confirm the opinions of the batsh*t crazy ones., and perhaps push them to further excesses of spite.

These threads are for advice and/or reassurance - nothing else.

Fucking hell OP, what a piece of shit your "D"H is.

You sound like a lovely person to want to keep family relationships together but please also consider yourself in this. Maybe while he's away you could consult a solicitor and try to sort out an exit.

@R0SEMARY you are still so wrapped up in their drama. They are a useless pair of liars, who are lying to themselves most of all. But you are wasting your own precious life trying to untangle their issues. Why?

You keep saying divorce won't change anything because John will still have contact, Helen is still half-sister, teens will see them, what have you.

Divorce will make all the difference. For staters, you will be able to stop obsessing about what a pair of sick liars are thinking about you, your teens, weddings and other shit. You will just be able to think your own thoughts without being sucked into the crazy-making vortex of John's and Helen's life dramas.

You have not caused it, you cannot control it, you won't cure it. Why waste time on them?

Please tell me you are at least planning on seeking legal advice on the quiet if need be so you actually know your options and have a plan even long term once dc have done exams etc
And no you cannot stop either contacting your children if you split , but if you live elsewhere away from them at least they will have a safe space to go and stay.
Also as they get older they will make there own minds up and maybe be stronger to block especially if they see you standing up for yourself.
Its not surprising people are saying ltb from all you have told us as we can only go on what we would do, personally after affair one i would of been gone and def by affair 2 let alone any of the rest.
But this is your situation and your choice but a public forum you have asked advice on so you will get a lot of people saying leave , its mumsnet I have seen people tell others to ltb for things such as leaving the toilet seat up

@BluebellsGreenbells

From reading your posts my first thought was the park of them have some form of autism.

Bossy controlling, don’t like to be told no, H unable to link events (huge amounts of cash v on guest as the wedding) bossy, verbal abuse ... I’d stayed away personally!

Autistic people are not manipulative - you have to have a theory of mind to do this and people on the spectrum are not wired to think that way. This is unlikely to be autism, much more likely to be PD, probably borderline.

As for the comments that @ROSEMARY is concentrating on Helen right now - er, yes? Helen is contacting ROSEMARYs children and threatening self harm. So, yep, her behaviour is rightly the main focus at the moment. There has been plenty earlier in these posts about getting rid of partner, I dont think he is getting off scot free at all.

I RTFT whilst doing a night feed last night to keep myself up and I couldn’t stop thinking about it today. You are amazing OP, for dealing with the pair of them for 20 years and still being so level headed!! Honestly, the way I see it, you have two options.

1. Stay and play these toxic games forever. Your children will be part of this 100% of the time.

2. Leave and waste no more headspace on the pair of them. They’re both as bad as each other! Your children are teens and although you are sensible enough to allow them to continue a relationship with their father / half sister, they aren’t young kids who can easily be manipulated. They are old enough to see through the craziness and will have a safe space away from it in your new home. At the very worst if H bothers with them (which from what you’ve said about his treatment of Helen in the early days seems unlikely), they will be around this toxic mess 50% of the time. Which is a hell of a lot better than 100%. I feel so sorry for ‘Peter’ who had a barrage of abuse from Helen through no fault of their own - thankfully your kids are old enough to be able to block / ignore the pair of them as needed.

You are sensible for having a long term exit strategy and I disagree with those who say LTB immediately, pathological liars like your H are not stupid and willing to roll over and let you/children go so easily. I imagine it will be easier if he says he wants a divorce and initiates it? Is there any chance of this?

As a non related side note I am mildly surprised about your references to culture and the bit about saving face - I would have assumed that any family culture that would be ashamed if siblings don’t attend the wedding (I am Asian and it would be WW3 if my siblings didn’t attend my wedding so I get it) would also consider homosexuality shameful. Pleasantly surprised that this isn’t the case.

"As a non related side note I am mildly surprised about your references to culture and the bit about saving face - I would have assumed that any family culture that would be ashamed if siblings don’t attend the wedding (I am Asian and it would be WW3 if my siblings didn’t attend my wedding so I get it) would also consider homosexuality shameful. Pleasantly surprised that this isn’t the case."