Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Uninvited to family wedding

999 replies

R0SEMARY · 26/02/2021 02:51

Sorry this is long as there’s a lot of background and I don’t want to drip feed. Names/ details changed of course.

I’ve been married for 20 years to John, we have teenage kids together and John has a daughter, Helen, from a previous marriage. Helen is in her 30s and so was a teenager when I married her father. And no, I was not the OW - they were divorced years before we met.

Our marriage has been very difficult for the last 10 years, mostly because of my husband’s many affairs (among other things) . I’ve tried to leave several times but it’s complicated and I’ve stayed for the sake of the children. It’s bearable because he works away a lot and we pretty much lead separate lives.

When Helen was a teenager she lived with us for half the week. This was hard for me, I will admit, because she had a lot of behavioural issues and was very challenging. I tolerated a lot of verbal abuse and inappropriate behaviour as I knew she was troubled and unhappy. She was occasionally physically aggressive towards me, especially when I was pregnant.

After she left home things got better of course and during her 20s and 30s we have got on OK. She lives at the other end of the country with her girlfriend so we only meet up a few times a year but keep in touch by phone, what’s app, zoom etc .

They are getting married this autumn, postponed from last year. We are all involved - my teenagers are bridesmaids / ushers - it’s been years in the planning. Naturally I have my Step MOB outfit and I’ve arranged ( booked and paid for ) a week’s holiday for us all around the event, as it’s a 9 hour drive away.

However my husband has always struggled with Helen’s sexuality. He disliked her last girlfriend and really hates her current fiancée ( says she’s fat and ugly ) but I’ve always tried to smooth things over and persuade him to keep on good terms with them both. He originally didn’t want anything to do with the wedding, partly because he hates her girlfriend and partly because he has an issue with same sex relationships in general. He still thinks it’s a phase that Helen will grow out of ( sorry I know that’s offensive ).

However I talked him round and made all the arrangements so he can’t say it’s too much hassle. He didn’t even want to walk her down the aisle but I persuaded him to suggest instead that she ask her mum as they are closer.

Then tonight, out of the blue, Helen phoned me to say that she doesn’t want me at her wedding any longer but she still wants my husband and children to attend.

I was absolutely gobsmacked. We’ve been talking about this wedding for three years, I’ve helped her choose bridesmaids dresses, flowers, menu etc (at her request). She wouldn’t say why she was doing this.

There’s been no arguments or falling out of any kind - all recent conversions have been about the wedding, her work, her cats etc.

Of course I asked her father what was going on and after a long conversation he admitted that he has been lying to Helen about me for years. Basically all the negative and nasty things he has been saying to me about her, he has told her that I said them, not him.

I am so shocked. Ever since I’ve known him he’s been complaining to me about her. About her refusing to attend school as a teenager, about her self harming ( which he said was just attention seeking ), her lies and stealing, her sexuality, career choices, her dropping out of university, cheating on her previous partner, her character, her lack of religion ( he is from a conservative religious background and raised her in it ).

I’ve spent years listening to him talk about her . So often I’ve defended her and tried to get him to be a little more open minded about her beliefs and lifestyle. Persuaded him to be polite to her partners and talked about their good points. Made the effort to keep in touch, sending gifts and cards etc.

Don’t get me wrong, some of what he complains about is right and I’ve agreed with him . But I’ve never said it to anyone except him and I assumed that what we said was between us. It never crossed my mind that he was telling her anything that we discussed. It’s one of the few things I thought we were united on - that we support each other in dealing with her. Even during her adult life there’s been a lot of drama and I’ve always supported him.

And now I discover he has been undermining me to her for all these years. I’ve worked so hard to try to keep things friendly and to keep open the lines of communication and he’s been working against me behind my back.

It’s not that I thought DH loved me - I’m not under any illusion about that. He only stays because he likes the domestic servicing and he doesn’t have to pay child support or parent his children.

But I just don’t understand why he would tell all these lies for years. Why would anyone do that ? I’m just so shocked I don’t know what to think or what to do.

OP posts:
Youllbeoldertoo · 01/03/2021 10:50

@R0SEMARY

You seem to have open lines of communication with John? How does he react when you have these long conversations? Is he embarrassed?

R0SEMARY · 01/03/2021 10:56

@Howshouldibehave

But she has already told oldest teen that teen is a liar about my conversation with teen

Are these all the same one teen?

I’ve not left him yet because this information came to light on THURSDAY.

This isn’t a soap opera where weeks and months are compressed into minutes. This is my REAL LIFE and I have three teens who have crucial exams in the next few weeks and months. Plus we are in a strict lockdown in our country.

Any separation will be done thoughtfully after legal advice and due consideration and hopefully by agreement.

This is nasty and toxic but it’s been going on for 20 years. It’s not going to be dealt with in 20 hours.

OP posts:
CisMyArse · 01/03/2021 11:10

Well done for holding things together OP Thanks.

This is truly despicable and the betrayal is enormous. I'd agree with saying the bare minimum.

Start planning. You can, if you still want to, pen a simple letter to Helen when your divorce papers are served.

The betrayal is staggering.

R0SEMARY · 01/03/2021 11:14

@Howshouldibehave

But she has already told oldest teen that teen is a liar about my conversation with teen

Are these all the same one teen?

Sorry yes, I can see I’ve caused confusion by trying not to give name or sex of teen .

I’ll try again.

Helen phoned up Peter and said “ I know you are not coming because Rosemary has threatened and manipulated you and lied to you. She’s a horrible person and I never want to see her again “.

Peter said

“ No that’s not what happened at all. Mum told us what you said about her being uninvited. She said dad was still going and I was free to go or not go, that she didn’t mind either way, she was happy for me to make my own choice. I said straight away that I didn’t want to come but she told me to take a few days to be sure of my decision. There was no pressure “.

Helen said “ I know that’s not true, Rosemary is clever with her words she has manipulated you, you are just lying to protect her. You have to come to my wedding because you owe it to me because [ bad things have happened to me in my past ] . Your mother was wrong to give you a choice - I didn’t tell her to do that. Our father is going to tell you to attend because that’s what I want. “

Peter then phoned me very upset because Helen wouldn’t believe him and said horrid things about me. He was angry that Helen said I shouldn’t have given him a choice and upset that she had weaponised the bad things that happened in the past. He is upset that his father might order him to attend and then he won’t know what to do.

Peter is legally an adult and I can’t stop Helen contacting him. He’s too scared to block her but is ignoring her calls and messages.

When I say he is easily bullied I mean he is soft hearted and gets upset when he is shouted at. I don’t mean he has special needs, is mentally ill or particularly vulnerable in any way . He is extremely clever and well educated.

If I leave my husband today it will still not stop any interaction between Helen and Peter. Some of you are getting carried away shouting LTB now. That won’t fix everything overnight.

Helen will still be able to see and contact all of my kids in any way that they allow. Ditto their father.

It won’t even protect me as I can’t just ignore things that are affecting my kids. You are naive if you think that after I leave him I will never have any contact with him. Read the boards here and educate yourself - it’s not like that. Toxic and controlling people don’t let others walk away when they want. They only stop contact when THEY and longer wish it.

There’s no easy instant answer here.

OP posts:
picklemewalnuts · 01/03/2021 11:26

There isn't. And you've been quietly preparing for this for a while. Stick to your plan, and grey rock all round.

LadyEloise · 01/03/2021 11:29

ROSEMARY you sound lovely and I hope you and your dc have a happier life soon, that you and they can stay in your home and your h leaves.

Do they know that their father has lied to Helen for years ?
Do they know that he has had numerous affairs ?
I couldn't have put up with that.

Snowymcsnowsony · 01/03/2021 11:35

I think your dc deserve to know more facts about their df....allowing them to see him sat on a pedastal isn't fair to them. He is a complete twat. To you and subsequently to them also..

R0SEMARY · 01/03/2021 12:10

I will tell the children the facts but at the right time.

And that’s not now when I am in a complete state, I’ve barely slept or eaten since Thursday since John disclosed all these decades of lies to me. And now more lies are revealed in each email from Helen.

I’m struggling to cope with the fact that a significant part of the last 20 years of my life is almost certainly a lie.

Because if John has lied about his DD, he’s lied about other family, our own kids, our families and friends , our clients and colleagues.

Yes I knew he had lied about the affairs but he said he was sorry , they were mistakes and it wouldn’t happen again. I thought that was his weakness when he was away on business and couldn't cope with the loneliness.

But now I see he’s not a fundamentally decent man who made mistakes.

He’s a liar through and through. He wouldn’t know the truth if it hit him in the face.

I don’t know anything about anything . I’m totally destabilised.

So it’s not the time to tell the kids about any of this. They are not my therapists.

OP posts:
Eddielzzard · 01/03/2021 12:15

What's weird is why John has decided to tell you the truth over the last couple of days. What's in it for him now? Seems to me he manipulates everything to his advantage, so there must be some benefit to him telling the truth now. If it is the truth.

RandomMess · 01/03/2021 12:16
Thanks

I think you are experiencing trauma. To find out the last 20 years of your life/marriage is so full of lies and emotional manipulation is horrific.

Please be kind to yourself.

MzHz · 01/03/2021 12:19

@RandomMess

Thanks

I think you are experiencing trauma. To find out the last 20 years of your life/marriage is so full of lies and emotional manipulation is horrific.

Please be kind to yourself.

Absolutely agree with this

Know that you can do nothing to change what’s happened, but with a bit of space and time to process you can change the way you are feeling

Can you H go and stay somewhere else for a bit? Just to give you a bit of peace?

Kelly345 · 01/03/2021 12:22

@R0SEMARY

I will tell the children the facts but at the right time.

And that’s not now when I am in a complete state, I’ve barely slept or eaten since Thursday since John disclosed all these decades of lies to me. And now more lies are revealed in each email from Helen.

I’m struggling to cope with the fact that a significant part of the last 20 years of my life is almost certainly a lie.

Because if John has lied about his DD, he’s lied about other family, our own kids, our families and friends , our clients and colleagues.

Yes I knew he had lied about the affairs but he said he was sorry , they were mistakes and it wouldn’t happen again. I thought that was his weakness when he was away on business and couldn't cope with the loneliness.

But now I see he’s not a fundamentally decent man who made mistakes.

He’s a liar through and through. He wouldn’t know the truth if it hit him in the face.

I don’t know anything about anything . I’m totally destabilised.

So it’s not the time to tell the kids about any of this. They are not my therapists.

I would agree, but when is going to be the right tine to leave him? You don't seem to even have a plan or a particular will to want to leave him. Not even for your kids sakes. I honestly wouldn't want my kids exposed to either of them a second longer and would already be in talks with a solicitor to GTFO of there asap & make sure i screwed every penny out of him i could get. Anything must be better than this. You are not in a position where leaving will put you on a sink hole estate in a 2 bed council house as you already have assets, property share & business interests to carry on living a quite comfortable life without either of them in it. I couldn't even be in the same house as this nan another second and would rather be in a hostel.
MzHz · 01/03/2021 12:24

They both know you are not involved in these lies and they both continue to abuse you and more importantly they are enjoying hurting you.

They know nothing of the sort actually

They believe it. John has convinced himself of his lies, Helen believes him.

Helen has her own set of lies she’s told herself to justify her treatment of others and she believes them too.

Knowing to walk away for good is the only thing here tbh.

Kelly345 · 01/03/2021 12:24

@Eddielzzard

What's weird is why John has decided to tell you the truth over the last couple of days. What's in it for him now? Seems to me he manipulates everything to his advantage, so there must be some benefit to him telling the truth now. If it is the truth.
Well it's clear he envied the relationship OP had with his daughter and wanted to destroy it.
MzHz · 01/03/2021 12:35

It’s because John knows it would all come out, so he’s limiting the damage, @R0SEMARY has always swallowed his BS til now, he’ll talk her round blah blah

What he hasn’t reckoned on is that he’s overstepped the mark massively and he’s blown everything up into smithereens

BoomShakeShake · 01/03/2021 12:39

He's got narcissistic personality disorder by the sounds of things. There are some red flags: lying, believing he is always right, further lying to manipulate people all around him to do whatever he wants, no emotional understanding of how his actions hurt others etc.

Run, far far away, as fast as you can.

He can probably see he's losing control of you as the veil lifts from your eyes and he's throwing every card he can at you to try and get you back on board and make you submissive again

Don't fall for it. Be strong and be gone.

LadyEloise · 01/03/2021 12:48

The children don't know the facts.
They know there is drama- their beloved Mum has been uninvited to the wedding.
Why did Helen suddenly decide you were uninvited despite involving you in so much ? Did your h just suddenly drop you in it ?
They don't know that their father has told lies to their stepsister implicating their mother in some horrible remarks she did not make.
Nor do they appear to know that their father has repeatedly cheated on their mother and she is only holding the family together for their sake.
They are biggies.
I do think they should know those facts.

hannayeah · 01/03/2021 12:51

@Kelly345

You seem to have missed some key posts by the OP. She has had a plan for a long time.

Why do women think they can go online and tell other women they don’t even know what to do after reading a few lines about their lives? It is the opposite of helpful.

Mix56 · 01/03/2021 12:55

A separation with an agreement.... seriously, there isnt s hope in hell of him
Allowing you to move out with the dc without a fight
Allow division of "his" house, "his"company, "his" pension, "his" wealth,
He will use all his money to ruin you if necessary .(egged on doubtlessly by Helen, because it means she will get less) He is a narcissistic abuser.
You will need to get the very best SHL who understands domestic abuse

Boonlark · 01/03/2021 13:06

I think you may need to realise that John may do as you want with the three way conversation, and then tell her later that he was coerced into it.

An ex of mine did similar but with the in laws. We only found out after the separation when we compared notes. He'd also lied about me to friends for years and they believed him. Telling them the truth in front of me didn't work, as he later told them he'd been bullied into it.

averythinline · 01/03/2021 13:14

Its a shame you didn't divorce him before you and your dc would be much happier and better off financially..now they are older you will probably be worse off..
However moving away is an option I guess..

I wouldn't have thought staying together was an option now but I would certainly be clear with your dc and Helen that you are divorcing him because his lying about this is the straw that broke the camels back..

I wonder what your teens will think relationships should be like?

Nanny0gg · 01/03/2021 13:16

@R0SEMARY

No this is not IN ANY WAY a about the wedding. I don’t want to go to her wedding. My kids don’t want to go either.

It’s about informing Helen that she has been lied to for years and that I never did or said any of the things John said.

I’ve been lied about for years. I knew nothing about it so I couldn’t defend myself. I feel I have the right to tell her it was lies, even though she probably won’t believe me.

But if I say nothing she will go on thinking what she thinks, without a shadow of doubt.

But you won't be seeing her or Katy any more. So why does it matter?
billybagpuss · 01/03/2021 13:44

💐 sending flowers @R0SEMARY I think it’s getting on top of you a bit more today and I’m not sure mn is helping.

You are right to take your time over the separation, do try and keep your distance from H I’m not sure any conversation will help either of you at this point but I understand you wanting to clear your name. Don’t get bogged down in the drama if you can help it, say your piece and walk away, if it’s evident they left their listening ears somewhere else walk away sooner. Good luck.

CisMyArse · 01/03/2021 13:51

@RandomMess

Thanks

I think you are experiencing trauma. To find out the last 20 years of your life/marriage is so full of lies and emotional manipulation is horrific.

Please be kind to yourself.

Totally agree with this as well. I think you're doing incredibly well to maintain composure in the face of such abhorrent behaviour.

Sending strength.

HyacynthBucket · 01/03/2021 13:54

Have you contacted that hot shot lawyer that you need, OP? Please stop engaging with these toxic people, and leave the situation as soon as possible. Anything else will be modelling the wrong thing to your children. I agree with the person who said you are traumatised at the shock of this. Speaking to a solicitor will be a first step in coping with it. Then, after you break up with John, and he is no longer on the same premises as you, you will probably benefit from some counselling. Be kind to yourself.