Uninvited to family wedding

[R0SEMARY]

Sorry this is long as there’s a lot of background and I don’t want to drip feed. Names/ details changed of course.

I’ve been married for 20 years to John, we have teenage kids together and John has a daughter, Helen, from a previous marriage. Helen is in her 30s and so was a teenager when I married her father. And no, I was not the OW - they were divorced years before we met.

Our marriage has been very difficult for the last 10 years, mostly because of my husband’s many affairs (among other things) . I’ve tried to leave several times but it’s complicated and I’ve stayed for the sake of the children. It’s bearable because he works away a lot and we pretty much lead separate lives.

When Helen was a teenager she lived with us for half the week. This was hard for me, I will admit, because she had a lot of behavioural issues and was very challenging. I tolerated a lot of verbal abuse and inappropriate behaviour as I knew she was troubled and unhappy. She was occasionally physically aggressive towards me, especially when I was pregnant.

After she left home things got better of course and during her 20s and 30s we have got on OK. She lives at the other end of the country with her girlfriend so we only meet up a few times a year but keep in touch by phone, what’s app, zoom etc .

They are getting married this autumn, postponed from last year. We are all involved - my teenagers are bridesmaids / ushers - it’s been years in the planning. Naturally I have my Step MOB outfit and I’ve arranged ( booked and paid for ) a week’s holiday for us all around the event, as it’s a 9 hour drive away.

However my husband has always struggled with Helen’s sexuality. He disliked her last girlfriend and really hates her current fiancée ( says she’s fat and ugly ) but I’ve always tried to smooth things over and persuade him to keep on good terms with them both. He originally didn’t want anything to do with the wedding, partly because he hates her girlfriend and partly because he has an issue with same sex relationships in general. He still thinks it’s a phase that Helen will grow out of ( sorry I know that’s offensive ).

However I talked him round and made all the arrangements so he can’t say it’s too much hassle. He didn’t even want to walk her down the aisle but I persuaded him to suggest instead that she ask her mum as they are closer.

Then tonight, out of the blue, Helen phoned me to say that she doesn’t want me at her wedding any longer but she still wants my husband and children to attend.

I was absolutely gobsmacked. We’ve been talking about this wedding for three years, I’ve helped her choose bridesmaids dresses, flowers, menu etc (at her request). She wouldn’t say why she was doing this.

There’s been no arguments or falling out of any kind - all recent conversions have been about the wedding, her work, her cats etc.

Of course I asked her father what was going on and after a long conversation he admitted that he has been lying to Helen about me for years. Basically all the negative and nasty things he has been saying to me about her, he has told her that I said them, not him.

I am so shocked. Ever since I’ve known him he’s been complaining to me about her. About her refusing to attend school as a teenager, about her self harming ( which he said was just attention seeking ), her lies and stealing, her sexuality, career choices, her dropping out of university, cheating on her previous partner, her character, her lack of religion ( he is from a conservative religious background and raised her in it ).

I’ve spent years listening to him talk about her . So often I’ve defended her and tried to get him to be a little more open minded about her beliefs and lifestyle. Persuaded him to be polite to her partners and talked about their good points. Made the effort to keep in touch, sending gifts and cards etc.

Don’t get me wrong, some of what he complains about is right and I’ve agreed with him . But I’ve never said it to anyone except him and I assumed that what we said was between us. It never crossed my mind that he was telling her anything that we discussed. It’s one of the few things I thought we were united on - that we support each other in dealing with her. Even during her adult life there’s been a lot of drama and I’ve always supported him.

And now I discover he has been undermining me to her for all these years. I’ve worked so hard to try to keep things friendly and to keep open the lines of communication and he’s been working against me behind my back.

It’s not that I thought DH loved me - I’m not under any illusion about that. He only stays because he likes the domestic servicing and he doesn’t have to pay child support or parent his children.

But I just don’t understand why he would tell all these lies for years. Why would anyone do that ? I’m just so shocked I don’t know what to think or what to do.

I don't think I could be in the same house as this man anymore to be honest. Even renting would be better than staying in this toxic environment.

@Jfsrhkkydcb
Wow that’s a very invested comment. Op is not responsible for Helen’s parenting. She is advocating for her children and my comment was putting up a boundary. Now is not the time to empathise. Helen may have been manipulated all her life. But as an adult old enough to marry and having accrued a lot of evidence to the contrary, she still chose to believe the latest lie without fact checking with op. She sounds very screwed up, yet at some stage adults do need to take responsibility for their behaviour as adults.

I agree mummy, Helen sounds delightful not

Have you responded, did the email come to you or to DH?

I would be inclined to ignore it but you can’t second guess what DH will do. Alternatively

Thank you for your email, you do not need to justify why you have uninvited me to your wedding and as you are aware your siblings have chosen not to attend and that is their prerogative. I have cancelled our holiday accommodation and wish you and Katie all the best.

Say no more than that, do not fed the drama.

The email came to Dh but copied to me. I’ve not responded yet as John was working last night.

I’ve told him either he tells the her the truth today or I will. This will need to be on a phone call with all three of us as otherwise she will say I’m lying or coercing him.

She claims that the email he sent her on Saturday was coerced. I’ve no idea how I’m supposed to have coerced him. He’s not exactly a weak and passive man. He’s large, intelligent, powerful and controlling.

But she has already told oldest teen that teen is a liar about my conversation with teen ( when Helen was not present ). H is convinced that she knows better than all the people who were present at the time about what was said and done.

Even as I write this I realise that Helen will continue to believe what she wants to believe, regardless of any evidence to the contrary. And that any such call is a complete waste of time.

Fuck.

Even as I write this I realise that Helen will continue to believe what she wants to believe, regardless of any evidence to the contrary. And that any such call is a complete waste of time

Exactly which is why the best way is to refuse to engage. The other thing now is What do you want to happen next? If you have this conversation, John tells her the truth, she believes it and re-invites you. I cannot believe for one second you actually want to go.

No this is not IN ANY WAY a about the wedding. I don’t want to go to her wedding. My kids don’t want to go either.

It’s about informing Helen that she has been lied to for years and that I never did or said any of the things John said.

I’ve been lied about for years. I knew nothing about it so I couldn’t defend myself. I feel I have the right to tell her it was lies, even though she probably won’t believe me.

But if I say nothing she will go on thinking what she thinks, without a shadow of doubt.

She really does have this amazing ability to make everybody rush around jumping to her tune. It’s suddenly “The Helen Show”. She’s loving all this drama and upset. What you should do is grey rock her. Take away the petrol to her indignant fire. No more. Send one final email.

“Hi Helen. Stop sending vile emails. You’ve been told the truth. You continue to be nasty and refuse to accept that what you’ve been told previously was lies. We’re not dealing with this viciousness after a year of lockdown. Everybody’s had enough now. If you believed all the lies then why have you waited until now to do something about it. You should have been an adult and come to me and asked earlier rather than involving me in wedding planning. I’ve spent a lot of money on your wedding. We no longer wish to be involved with you. Have a lovely day, please don’t contact us again” and copy everybody in. Then forget her and ignore, plan some lovely things with your teens and get on with your life. You can’t go to the wedding now anyway. Your husband really has done a great job of ruining everybody’s lives

The phone call does not sound likely to help because she twists everything in her mind to fit what she believes.

She is unlikely to view her father as responsible because she has an emotionally and financially vested interest in staying on good terms with him. No matter what he’s done, he is still her father and holds the key to her imagined financial prosperity.

And she’s a very damaged person.

Is she still getting to your oldest? All of my energy would be going into protecting your children.

Any further communication to her from me would be hand written and posted. Not via email or text as it’s too easy to react emotionally without really absorbing content. I would not say much more than “Your father has not been honest with you, and it pains me to tell you this. Only he can explain his extensive deception to you. I’ve never wished anything but happiness for you.”

I’d want to tell her to stay the hell away from the children, but you can’t do that.

Yes, it may feel unjust nit to be able to clear your name, but H is going to be speaking to her out of ear shot too, & she will say any 3 way call has been instrumented by you, & you are obliging H to take the blame.
Walk away from them both, grey rock, Live your life happily ever after.

Neither John or Helen will ever admit to themselves let alone others that they have ever told
Lies.

You admit John is controlling, surprise surprise you think Helen is marrying someone controlling.

You eldest is easily bullied/controlled. Your focus needs to be on your DC not emulating your marriage and having controlling partners of their own.

This is a really tricky one as you have no way of knowing what he has and hasn’t said. If you have the conversation can you arrange it so you need to say very little, you don’t want to get into a scenario where you say John has led her to believe this, and actually he hasn’t and Pandora’s box explodes even more.

When you’re out of all this OP, and have no contact or conversation with John, who on earth will John have to lie about and hide behind for all the nasty opinions he holds and conveys to Helen?

The problem with this is you are a normal, rational person who's honest and upfront, and you're trying to rationalise and reason with two people who are compulsive liars who will happily manipulate a situation, believe their wanted reality and are happy to abuse those around them.

You will never get either of them to see sense. The best, and only course of action is to take you and your dc out of the equation. Remove yourself from the firing line and grey rock the pair of them. By having such a conversation is only feeding into the drama they both so desperately need.

Get yourself sorted and leave them both. Go nc with Helen and only discuss the dc with your dh.

Their (Helen and John) opinion of you and what they think about you is none of your business. Your family, friends and dc are the ones you would want to understand the truth and it already sounds like your dc have got Helen bang to rights. They will figure out their df is the same in due course.

*I’ve been lied about for years. I knew nothing about it so I couldn’t defend myself. I feel I have the right to tell her it was lies, even though she probably won’t believe me.

But if I say nothing she will go on thinking what she thinks, without a shadow of doubt.*

Yeah you’re right, as is @RandomMess, she won’t believe anything that shows her up, neither will John. She won’t believe him even if he did fess up. She has far too much invested in you being the wicked witch

The only reason to tell her is for yourself and to give her the potential tools to work this out. She may never do so, but you are honest, you’ve always done what you can to make things better. This time may be the last time you will do so, but it’s for you. You’ll know you’ve done the best you can.

You can’t fight narcissists, and thankfully neither of the players in this are your responsibility

Be there for yourself, for your kids and love onward and upwards

@harknesswitch

The problem with this is you are a normal, rational person who's honest and upfront, and you're trying to rationalise and reason with two people who are compulsive liars who will happily manipulate a situation, believe their wanted reality and are happy to abuse those around them.

You will never get either of them to see sense. The best, and only course of action is to take you and your dc out of the equation. Remove yourself from the firing line and grey rock the pair of them. By having such a conversation is only feeding into the drama they both so desperately need.

Get yourself sorted and leave them both. Go nc with Helen and only discuss the dc with your dh.

This is a great post!

Those with narcissists in their family have learned this the hard way.

Bang on

And she’s a very damaged person

Completely agree. There is some sciencific data that could show narcissism (a disordered personality) has a genetic component so nurture isn't the only factor.

Op, do you know Helen's mother? Does Helen have a good relationship with her?

I think you should explain the truth to her but dear god you NEED to leave your husband. Your kids are NOT better off having to live with you being treated the way you are by such an awful man.

Whilst I do agree with the posts that she will never see it and never believe you so your better to cut contact I think I would write Helen a letter as you divorce John. I would have to for my own sanity.

Don’t tell her she’s always been difficult or anything like that, yes she’s horrific for bringing your kids into it. But she was a troubled teenager whose only view of you is based on lies.
Divorce him, write her a letter as a “goodbye” saying during the argument some things have come to light.
You’ve loved her, you’ve really tried, you have many cherished memories together and you know her view is based on the rubbish she has been told. You wish her and (controlling) wife well in their marriage and will be thinking of her on their special day.
Then leave it be. Nothing negative about what she’s done or said to you, only positives.

You don't need to speak to her at all. You do need to tell John that you do not want to see/hear anything from her. There is no reason for him to even mention her or her wedding as you have made it crystal clear that you will not be involved or go to it. You know when it is, so you know that he will be going that weekend.

They are both doing this to continue to hurt you. They both know you are not involved in these lies and they both continue to abuse you and more importantly they are enjoying hurting you.

You know how you felt your head would explode at the possibility that everything your husband has told you is a lie so nothing you know from him is true.

That's Helen, except she doesn't know your H is a liar, add in whatever childhood trauma she has suffered and that's never going to result in a calm rational person is it?

I wouldn't bother trying to justify or put right anything.

You will not be believed and it will just add fuel to this whole sorry drama.

I'd just speed up plans on leaving this whole sorry mess with my children still relatively in tact.

I'd send her a simple email, copying him in if you want to.

I'd say that you wish her well, and always have. That unfortunately her father has not been honest in his dealings with you and her, and has created this situation of distrust. That you are going to step away from all the arguments, because you know that arguing won't help any of you heal or change what you all believe about each other. That you have tried hard to help and support her, but understand that she isn't able to appreciate that because of the complexity of the relationships. That you hope she will stay in touch with her siblings, but not to bring them into arguments she has with other family members.

But she has already told oldest teen that teen is a liar about my conversation with teen

Are these all the same one teen?

I don’t understand why you haven’t left your husband yet. You seem more invested in “proving” your innocence than actually cutting out the infestation that is rotting away your life. How can you live like this?