Uninvited to family wedding

[R0SEMARY]

Sorry this is long as there’s a lot of background and I don’t want to drip feed. Names/ details changed of course.

I’ve been married for 20 years to John, we have teenage kids together and John has a daughter, Helen, from a previous marriage. Helen is in her 30s and so was a teenager when I married her father. And no, I was not the OW - they were divorced years before we met.

Our marriage has been very difficult for the last 10 years, mostly because of my husband’s many affairs (among other things) . I’ve tried to leave several times but it’s complicated and I’ve stayed for the sake of the children. It’s bearable because he works away a lot and we pretty much lead separate lives.

When Helen was a teenager she lived with us for half the week. This was hard for me, I will admit, because she had a lot of behavioural issues and was very challenging. I tolerated a lot of verbal abuse and inappropriate behaviour as I knew she was troubled and unhappy. She was occasionally physically aggressive towards me, especially when I was pregnant.

After she left home things got better of course and during her 20s and 30s we have got on OK. She lives at the other end of the country with her girlfriend so we only meet up a few times a year but keep in touch by phone, what’s app, zoom etc .

They are getting married this autumn, postponed from last year. We are all involved - my teenagers are bridesmaids / ushers - it’s been years in the planning. Naturally I have my Step MOB outfit and I’ve arranged ( booked and paid for ) a week’s holiday for us all around the event, as it’s a 9 hour drive away.

However my husband has always struggled with Helen’s sexuality. He disliked her last girlfriend and really hates her current fiancée ( says she’s fat and ugly ) but I’ve always tried to smooth things over and persuade him to keep on good terms with them both. He originally didn’t want anything to do with the wedding, partly because he hates her girlfriend and partly because he has an issue with same sex relationships in general. He still thinks it’s a phase that Helen will grow out of ( sorry I know that’s offensive ).

However I talked him round and made all the arrangements so he can’t say it’s too much hassle. He didn’t even want to walk her down the aisle but I persuaded him to suggest instead that she ask her mum as they are closer.

Then tonight, out of the blue, Helen phoned me to say that she doesn’t want me at her wedding any longer but she still wants my husband and children to attend.

I was absolutely gobsmacked. We’ve been talking about this wedding for three years, I’ve helped her choose bridesmaids dresses, flowers, menu etc (at her request). She wouldn’t say why she was doing this.

There’s been no arguments or falling out of any kind - all recent conversions have been about the wedding, her work, her cats etc.

Of course I asked her father what was going on and after a long conversation he admitted that he has been lying to Helen about me for years. Basically all the negative and nasty things he has been saying to me about her, he has told her that I said them, not him.

I am so shocked. Ever since I’ve known him he’s been complaining to me about her. About her refusing to attend school as a teenager, about her self harming ( which he said was just attention seeking ), her lies and stealing, her sexuality, career choices, her dropping out of university, cheating on her previous partner, her character, her lack of religion ( he is from a conservative religious background and raised her in it ).

I’ve spent years listening to him talk about her . So often I’ve defended her and tried to get him to be a little more open minded about her beliefs and lifestyle. Persuaded him to be polite to her partners and talked about their good points. Made the effort to keep in touch, sending gifts and cards etc.

Don’t get me wrong, some of what he complains about is right and I’ve agreed with him . But I’ve never said it to anyone except him and I assumed that what we said was between us. It never crossed my mind that he was telling her anything that we discussed. It’s one of the few things I thought we were united on - that we support each other in dealing with her. Even during her adult life there’s been a lot of drama and I’ve always supported him.

And now I discover he has been undermining me to her for all these years. I’ve worked so hard to try to keep things friendly and to keep open the lines of communication and he’s been working against me behind my back.

It’s not that I thought DH loved me - I’m not under any illusion about that. He only stays because he likes the domestic servicing and he doesn’t have to pay child support or parent his children.

But I just don’t understand why he would tell all these lies for years. Why would anyone do that ? I’m just so shocked I don’t know what to think or what to do.

Have you asked John about her claims?

Urgh the sooner you divorced from John and Helen the better!! Leave them to their duplicitous toxicity.

It is toxic. They deserve each other.

Tonight’s news is that we’ve had another ( more rational and less abusive ) email from Helen

Here we go.
She’s modifying to get you to bend and trying to undermine the dc decision

Neither John not Helen can salvage this.

If he told her this, that’s game over

If she is making this up - ditto

Either way, just too much drama.

Agree with the last poster - adopt a 'no drama' policy and go silent in response to any attempts to get you pulled into it.

Surely the best thing you can do now is just take one huge step.back from it all. No contact with Helen, put up with John whilst you figure out the seperation/divorce and just enjoy time with your kids. It's so nice to read that you've got a good relationship with them and that they support you, at least you have that.

@Kelly345

Have you asked John about her claims?

Of course I’ve asked him! But the email just arrived today when he was at work. We can’t talk about this until tomorrow, due to his shifts.

We had hours of conversions about it on Friday and yesterday.

In your shoes, I would reply and say something like,

'I would never have done this and can understand why you would have found it hurtful. I'm not saying it didn't happen from your perspective as there is the possibility that you were lied to by your father. I have been lied to repeatedly by him so that is a possibility. I can understand that you wouldn't know who to believe at this point. I can identify with that feeling as I have only just learned that John has been giving you false information about my thoughts and opinions for many years. I can't understand why he would do this when I have tried hard to make you welcome, but I no longer need to find out. This is not my drama. However, you are in a different position as he is your father and I understand that you need to choose who to believe and stick with it. I hope you find some peace and clarity. I don't see a future for myself as part of John's family and will also be finding peace and clarity in a different way. For your siblings' sake, regardless whoever and whatever you choose to believe, I will engage in no further to and fro about this. There is also no excuse for subjecting your siblings to any kind of abusive behaviour. They are free to do whatever they wish without pressure from any of us. As a new chapter of your life begins, I do wish you both well.

So now she changes the narrative.
Unsrprisingly!
When younger ,& your pitiful H was away, she preferred to stay with you, the wicked step mother, rather than go to her own mother....
She was violent & utterly vile, but you never refused her visits, & now she iis pulling any old rabbit out of the hat to cover her lunacy
Id just ignore her completely, or give her both barrels, tell her this whole charade is laughable, she has been an egotistical agressive nightmare for years, you happily won't come to the wedding, you want 5k back (your half) Your kids will take a wide birth from now on, your dick of a lying cheating husband is soon to be history. Good riddance to both of them......😂

"Tonight’s news is that we’ve had another ( more rational and less abusive ) email from Helen"

Backtracking a little to reel you back in?

In all honesty, does any of the bollocks she spouts matter any more?

@BootsieBarnes

I think the key point here is that neither of them are reliable sources. One will lie and the other will manipulate with threats of self harm. Both are toxic in their own ways.

I wouldn't even bother trying to unpick this knot. Waste of time and will really get you nowhere.

Personally I find her threats/abuse to my kids unforgivable, regardless of perceived motivation.

This entirely.

@Mix56

So now she changes the narrative. Unsrprisingly! When younger ,& your pitiful H was away, she preferred to stay with you, the wicked step mother, rather than go to her own mother.... She was violent & utterly vile, but you never refused her visits, & now she iis pulling any old rabbit out of the hat to cover her lunacy Id just ignore her completely, or give her both barrels, tell her this whole charade is laughable, she has been an egotistical agressive nightmare for years, you happily won't come to the wedding, you want 5k back (your half) Your kids will take a wide birth from now on, your dick of a lying cheating husband is soon to be history. Good riddance to both of them......😂

I'm with this.

I also think OP that knowing what a complete nightmare and headcase she is for years, you seem strangely more loyal to maintaining a lie to her benefit, than being honest with your own children.

Perhaps if you had been more honest, your children would not be stunned with todays drama.

Your entire family dynamic, from that with your husband and covering for your step daughter's awful behaviour, seems utterly poisonous.
How you imagine all these years of subterfuge benefit your poor children I really don't know.

It just all sounds so awful.

I really believe you should think about considering a bit of honesty.

Your children are, after all, in their teens.

You have intensely disliked their father and stepsister (with good reason) for years.

Do you think a small bit of honesty might be a good idea at some point.

They all sound fucking vile... I

would email Her back correcting every single bloody lie...

and tell Her exactly what you think of Her... Her behaviour toward you and now your children is ATROCIOUS...

Id tell her to ram Her Wedding up her Arse... nobody gets to verbally abuse my Children ... NOBODY ..

I don't care what she claims are Her reasons... Nobody ever talk to my children like that ...

AND kick John out... seriously

Credit to you OP for keeping a cool head 🌺

@billy1966 I haven’t lied to anyone I don’t know what you are talking about.

Not telling my minor children all the details of their fathers affairs and their sisters troubled life is not lying. It’s a judgement call how and when they are told information that is not theirs.

I think I’m in a better position than you to a make that judgement as I know them, their ages, personalities and vulnerabilities.

I also know the difficult and traumatic nature of some of the information which you do not. It would be completely inappropriate for me to share that here.

I have known this information for less than THREE DAYS . It’s still coming out in dribs and drabs. I am still in a state of shock. Every day I’ve had a new bombshell dropped, full of toxic information.

So kindly don’t criticise me for years of deception when I'm the one who has been lied to.

Do you want to reply? If you do I would make it very simple:

I only ever wanted the best for you Helen and my door was always open to you. It is such a shame you have chosen to believe the vile lies. It is such a shame your brothers and sisters had to hear what you think of me. It is such a shame your brothers and sisters are too upset by your words to attend your wedding. We sincerely wish you all the very best.

Op, I have sadly a little experience of these types of toxic people. If you were making an effort with your SD when you first came on the scene it is likely your H triangulated you. He would have been threatened by your relationship with her and would have smeared you however it has now back fired. There really isn't anything that you can say to a disordered individual to pacify them as their thinking isn't rational. This is something you have to try and accept.

Low response is the best as whatever you say will be twisted to suit their agenda.

Are you much younger than H? No judgement just that if you leave is he likely to get another woman?

would record him admitting all these things and send her it. Tell him you just want to be clear and work
Out why.

Then leave the cock nostril. All of them.

You’re dealing with narcissists @R0SEMARY

You can’t play their game.

Don’t even try

This isn’t a good marriage spoiled

This is a non working marriage that has run out of smoke screen

You’ve done all you can, time to put yourself and your dc first

I’m glad I made you laugh! 😊

Leave the horrible man.
What on earth are your complicated reasons for being with him ???

Helen's dad has been filling her head with lies about you since she was a teen and for two decades. The majority of her life. With manipulative finishing touches like the heartbreaking visit to tell her you were trying to stop him seeing her. Who would believe their own dad would pull a stunt like that unless sincere?

Meanwhile he's positioned himself as the caring dad fighting to defend her from you and keeping her in his life despite the years you have spent trying to keep him from her.

She has no way of knowing the opposite has been the case. Given the 20 years of bullshit she's been fed it wouldn't even sound plausible.

I can easily see how she would genuinely believe that this decision has come from you and that it's you trying to wreck her relationships and her wedding. To her, it's probably felt like the final straw after years of trying to tolerate your shit behaviour.

So she doesn't believe your kids or husband saying it's not you - because he's spent years telling her what he does is forced on him by you. And you all think she's being crazy and narcissistic - because you've not been responsible for the shit he's pinned on you so can't see what she's reacting to, and you've been fed your own diet of bullshit about her.

John has really done a number on both of you. If there is a narcissist here it's him, not Helen.

Are you much younger than H? No judgement just that if you leave is he likely to get another woman

No and no. He’s married to his job.

In the last few days he’s admitted to me that he only married me for a housekeeper/ nanny and because he wanted more children. Once we divorce I assume I will have the children 100% of the time so he will have little need of these services.

He will get a cleaner and devote himself to his work.

One of the reasons I have delayed leaving him is that I know he will see very little of the children once we split. My guess is that he will take them out for a meal once a week. Now they are old enough to cope with that.

He’s not willing to do any actual parenting.

This opinion is based on how little effort her made to see Helen after she left home. I consider the best predictor of the future to be the past.

@R0SEMARY would it be so terrible to limit the time your children are exposed to this man? He sounds vile, it’s chilling. I expect this will be a thread I think about for a long time after it’s finished. Maybe leaving him and limiting the amount of influence he has on your children wouldn’t be the worst thing ever? Just because he is their father it doesn’t make him a good person.

You were used as the reason why he didn't bother with her once she left home/got older!!!

He will tell similar lies to your DC bit hopefully they will see who he really is very quickly.

chosen to believe the vile lies

Chosen? Hang on, how does Helen end up as the villain for being deceived by her own father? She chose to be his pawn?

He started this when she was a teenager. He's her father. He's continued with the lies for two decades. The majority of her life. Telling her hurtful things he claimed someone else was doing.

On what basis do you think she should have known he was lying in order for her to have "chosen" to believe him?

It doesn't have make logical sense to claim that she was in a situation where she knew she was being told lies and then made a free choice whether or not to believe them.

Or to position her as the villain for being deceived and manipulated by her own parent, a man who she should have been able to trust.

Aren't we all taught to trust and believe our own parents? What child would think that their parent was telling them hurtful things in order to manipulate them? Never mind the rest of his extremely fucked up influence on this woman's formative years and subsequent life.

Helen is just as much John's victim as the op. Blaming her for reacting to two decades of baiting is as perverse as what this man has done to his own family.

Given that he's deliberately fucked with his daughter's head and done a very good job of fucking her life up, I don't think limited contact with his other children would be a bad thing if it protects them from the same kind of treatment.