Uninvited to family wedding

[R0SEMARY]

Sorry this is long as there’s a lot of background and I don’t want to drip feed. Names/ details changed of course.

I’ve been married for 20 years to John, we have teenage kids together and John has a daughter, Helen, from a previous marriage. Helen is in her 30s and so was a teenager when I married her father. And no, I was not the OW - they were divorced years before we met.

Our marriage has been very difficult for the last 10 years, mostly because of my husband’s many affairs (among other things) . I’ve tried to leave several times but it’s complicated and I’ve stayed for the sake of the children. It’s bearable because he works away a lot and we pretty much lead separate lives.

When Helen was a teenager she lived with us for half the week. This was hard for me, I will admit, because she had a lot of behavioural issues and was very challenging. I tolerated a lot of verbal abuse and inappropriate behaviour as I knew she was troubled and unhappy. She was occasionally physically aggressive towards me, especially when I was pregnant.

After she left home things got better of course and during her 20s and 30s we have got on OK. She lives at the other end of the country with her girlfriend so we only meet up a few times a year but keep in touch by phone, what’s app, zoom etc .

They are getting married this autumn, postponed from last year. We are all involved - my teenagers are bridesmaids / ushers - it’s been years in the planning. Naturally I have my Step MOB outfit and I’ve arranged ( booked and paid for ) a week’s holiday for us all around the event, as it’s a 9 hour drive away.

However my husband has always struggled with Helen’s sexuality. He disliked her last girlfriend and really hates her current fiancée ( says she’s fat and ugly ) but I’ve always tried to smooth things over and persuade him to keep on good terms with them both. He originally didn’t want anything to do with the wedding, partly because he hates her girlfriend and partly because he has an issue with same sex relationships in general. He still thinks it’s a phase that Helen will grow out of ( sorry I know that’s offensive ).

However I talked him round and made all the arrangements so he can’t say it’s too much hassle. He didn’t even want to walk her down the aisle but I persuaded him to suggest instead that she ask her mum as they are closer.

Then tonight, out of the blue, Helen phoned me to say that she doesn’t want me at her wedding any longer but she still wants my husband and children to attend.

I was absolutely gobsmacked. We’ve been talking about this wedding for three years, I’ve helped her choose bridesmaids dresses, flowers, menu etc (at her request). She wouldn’t say why she was doing this.

There’s been no arguments or falling out of any kind - all recent conversions have been about the wedding, her work, her cats etc.

Of course I asked her father what was going on and after a long conversation he admitted that he has been lying to Helen about me for years. Basically all the negative and nasty things he has been saying to me about her, he has told her that I said them, not him.

I am so shocked. Ever since I’ve known him he’s been complaining to me about her. About her refusing to attend school as a teenager, about her self harming ( which he said was just attention seeking ), her lies and stealing, her sexuality, career choices, her dropping out of university, cheating on her previous partner, her character, her lack of religion ( he is from a conservative religious background and raised her in it ).

I’ve spent years listening to him talk about her . So often I’ve defended her and tried to get him to be a little more open minded about her beliefs and lifestyle. Persuaded him to be polite to her partners and talked about their good points. Made the effort to keep in touch, sending gifts and cards etc.

Don’t get me wrong, some of what he complains about is right and I’ve agreed with him . But I’ve never said it to anyone except him and I assumed that what we said was between us. It never crossed my mind that he was telling her anything that we discussed. It’s one of the few things I thought we were united on - that we support each other in dealing with her. Even during her adult life there’s been a lot of drama and I’ve always supported him.

And now I discover he has been undermining me to her for all these years. I’ve worked so hard to try to keep things friendly and to keep open the lines of communication and he’s been working against me behind my back.

It’s not that I thought DH loved me - I’m not under any illusion about that. He only stays because he likes the domestic servicing and he doesn’t have to pay child support or parent his children.

But I just don’t understand why he would tell all these lies for years. Why would anyone do that ? I’m just so shocked I don’t know what to think or what to do.

That sounds like a truly awful abusive life you have lived. Find a way to extract what you can from the business and make a life for yourself away from this person. Show your children that this is not what life should be like.

Write to Helen, say, you are truly shocked that she has decided not to include you in the wedding but that ultimately it is her choice. Tell her that without going into details, your husband has told you that he has lied to her about what you have thought and said over the years and that he did this to hurt Helen and to make her relationship with you impossibly difficult. Say that despite the situation you both found yourselves in, being connected to her father in the way that you both were, you have tried your best over the years and while she may see things differently, you want her to know that you have worked hard to make this family work and had looked forward to seeing her get married and seeing her step siblings be part of that celebration. Tell her that you wish her the very best for the future and hope she has a wonderful day.

@R0SEMARY

You do realise he's done the exact same thing to other people? His ex-wife, if she's still speaking to him, will have heard any the abuse and hate from him as though he was repeating your words. Probably your children have experienced it, too. They certainly will in the future

AFAIK he and his ex haven’t spoken one word in more than 5 years. But what do I know ? He could he shagging her twice a week for all I know.

I would think back to any comments he's claimed other people have made about you, too. You can safely disregard every word he's ever said, I should think - and that includes anything he claims is from Helen

We work together, his family feels like mine after two decades. Now I have to think that everything he has every told me about everything for 20 years could be a lie??? My whole world view could be wrong ?

< head explodes >

He's weaponised your relationship with his daughter who was by your account already a kid going through a tough time when you first came into their lives. A man who does that through lies, for a sustained period of two decades, is someone you can pretty safely assume lies to most people about most things. Including lying to you and about you.

Seriously. It's a sociopathic disregard for consequence.

@R0SEMARY

You do realise he's done the exact same thing to other people? His ex-wife, if she's still speaking to him, will have heard any the abuse and hate from him as though he was repeating your words. Probably your children have experienced it, too. They certainly will in the future

AFAIK he and his ex haven’t spoken one word in more than 5 years. But what do I know ? He could he shagging her twice a week for all I know.

I would think back to any comments he's claimed other people have made about you, too. You can safely disregard every word he's ever said, I should think - and that includes anything he claims is from Helen

We work together, his family feels like mine after two decades. Now I have to think that everything he has every told me about everything for 20 years could be a lie??? My whole world view could be wrong ?

< head explodes >

Of course everything he has said could be a lie! He's already admitted lying about you to Helen, why do you find it so hard to believe he could do it the other way round in respect of her, and anyone else? Personally I think you would be failing your children if you don't let them know the full extent of what has been going on, so they can make any decisions based on all the facts

Rosemary, it's very hard when you are married to a liar. Been there, similar amount of time. Also hard when you try very hard for the step children, and are only their step mother when it's to their advantage, not in any meaningful sense. I can understand that this is a bombshell, but could you see your not going to the wedding as part of you separating with Pig Husband? It sounds like it isn't going to be a barrel of laughs anyway, and if you separate before or not long after will be part of that procesc. It doesn't matter if people raise eyebrows. Anyone with intuition will see him for what he is. For example, my church warden XH seemed to be a likeable chap. I assumed his church buddies would have me down as the witch, but it turns out they'd seen through him long ago. I shouldn't have needed that validation, but there may be more people who 'see' him than you think. Get yourself a SHL. Tbh you had me at homophobic, and thinks wife to be is fat and ugly. He's not being asked to marry her, so none of his effing business. How dare he say that! I think you have semi got used to his arseholey ways. Think of the crabs being boiled alive example.
I can't tell you how much happier I am NOT married to someone who is an unfaithful, gaslighting liar, who thinks terribly highly of himself. You will be too.

Of course everything he has said could be a lie! He's already admitted lying about you to Helen, why do you find it so hard to believe he could do it the other way round in respect of her, and anyone else ?

I don’t find it hard to give intellectual assent to the idea. Of course it’s right.

I’m finding it emotionally hard to deal with the possibility that he’s been lying about me and to me about to everyone in our social circle, work colleagues, clients , family, neighbours. Everyone from the bin man and the woman in the Morrison’s filling station to our kids sports coaches, teachers and club leaders.

I’m finding it emotionally hard to deal with the possibility that he’s been lying about me and to me about to everyone in our social circle, work colleagues, clients , family, neighbours. Everyone from the bin man and the woman in the Morrison’s filling station to our kids sports coaches, teachers and club leaders.

The scale of betrayal is hard to grasp. It's taken me years to fully grasp just how many people were lied to about my character, apparently I'm a 'monster'. Certain adlibs from people that didn't make sense years ago will start to make sense now e.g I would often hear 'why are you so hard?', 'have you changed? I now understand where coming from much deeper conversations. Distance yourself from these people because they will never believe your version, the poison has gone on for so many years that it will completely mess with their heads to reinvent who you are. The lies may have been told to neighbours and extended family, your friends who have distanced themselves from you (but you never knew why) about how they have been shielding step-daughter from your wrath etc and pleading on step-daughters behalf. It a form of madness. You will start afresh.

It's quite possible that he hasn't lied to you about other things, that he did in this for a specific goal: to keep you & his DD apart.

But, yeah a liar is a liar and anything is on the table as a lie.

I think what is happening is that you're now realising that someone who would treat his wife the way he has, is more than just a bit of an arsehole. He's a proper bona fide dyed in the wool inveterate arsehole.

I understand that's hard to take - but really it's just a question of degree.

Also I’m not a lovely person . I’m a deeply flawed person who is easily hurt and often gets things out of proportion

None of us are perfect but you may well find your personality becomes nicer/calmer/less flawed once you are away from your husband. I was told that at times when I was married I wasn't particularly nice - his words coming out of my mouth, which makes me feel sick but it was true.

You will become yourself again

Could it be that his latest affair partner is invited to the wedding, so he needs to ensure that you don't attend?

I would be highly sceptical of anything he says, including this new revelation that he's been lying to Helen about you for the entire marriage. That seems designed purely to hurt you right now. As far you can, I would give him no reaction at all. Just shrug it off.

His behaviour certainly seem like he's goading you to end the marriage. Could he have a financial incentive for this, an inheritance he wants to come to him after you're divorced?

@R0SEMARY My father left my mother after 23 years of marriage, 2 days after my wedding. Never underestimate a stupid man.

@R0SEMARY

Of course everything he has said could be a lie! He's already admitted lying about you to Helen, why do you find it so hard to believe he could do it the other way round in respect of her, and anyone else ?

I don’t find it hard to give intellectual assent to the idea. Of course it’s right.

I’m finding it emotionally hard to deal with the possibility that he’s been lying about me and to me about to everyone in our social circle, work colleagues, clients , family, neighbours. Everyone from the bin man and the woman in the Morrison’s filling station to our kids sports coaches, teachers and club leaders.

I had a friend 'C' when I was around 15-28ish, I finally dropped her about 10 years ago - we were close but drifted apart as our life choices diverged. She was full of gossip and information about mutual friends, old school mate etc etc.

Until I very recently realised everything she told me was a lie. One lie caused me to lose a load of friends at Uni, which I couldn't understand. I recently became Facebook friends with an old school mate (according to C, she told me many years ago, he was very into drugs and gay), except he wasn't. He was very clearly what he had always been, a middle class middle of the road heterosexual teacher with a wife and kids....

It suddenly clicked and I posted on here as it was as if my (younger) world had been turned upside down. The teacher who had an affair with a pupil, nope. The gay drug addict friend, nope. The man-eater friend, nope. I could go on. I actually couldn't believe I had "believed" it all for so long.

So don't be too hard on yourself and realise now is time to move on. You are never going to be friends with her as she will believe her father. You just need to extract yourself from the marriage. While you are with your DH, people will believe what he says about you.

[quote R0SEMARY]@YoniAndGuy

The most important people here are your children. Please get them away from this man, divorce and set up a new, honest, loving home before they are of the age to leave it, and give them the mental space to draw their own conclusions about their pig of a father

You are absolutely right. But I divorcing him won’t get them away from him, he’s their father and they are teenagers and they have a right to see him. And I have no doubt he will use money to control them.

Don't be still there at 75, in a house with Pig, wondering why your kids as adults make every excuse under the sun to not really bother with you both

I won’t. Divorce has always been on the cards, it’s just a matter of time. Lockdown hasn’t helped of course - the kids being off school / college and us both working from home ( he’s been away a lot less ) . All that togetherness is tough, even in a happy marriage.[/quote]
They are old enough to decide which parent to spend more time with. And it sounds like they know exactly what he's like. So regardless of bribes, you may find they don't actually want to stay with him much.

Anyway, they'd be better off without that dynamic in the house, even if he's not always there, and even if he continues to lie about/to you after splitting.

I can't get my head around this one so Christ knows how you're feeling @R0SEMARY
It's just so sick and twisted. Hurting you both like that.
I hope to see a post from you in the not too distant future to say you've left the bastard.

I think your husband's action's over the last 20 years have added to her poor mental state and is the reason you and her have not really gelled over the year's.

He basically sabotaged your relationship with her from the start.

Try and record him saying what he's done incase you need proof in the future

@heatherhoneys

Mumsnet is a public forum that anybody can read, the daily mail and other papers use it as a source for stories. It is not a safe space for anybody

I get your points, heatherhoneys, but to specifically point any of her family towards this thread wouldn't be a good thing.

It is now probably too late for you and Helen to build bridges and try to form a new relationship - you have both spent far too long in the despicable manipulative clutches of your DH/her father.

It is not too late for you to protect your own children from his abuse.

Now you know he’s been manipulating your relationships for the last 20 years please say you are going to expedite the divorce 💐

Did you say earlier he has a therapist ? I think he’s probably been lying to them too.

You need to get away from him ASAP.He is a truly awful person

Or he's just made up a "therapist" to get you on a false sense of security.

Or in fact the "therapist" is just someone he's going off to see for sex.

This is the time to stop believing ONE, any, word form him and start protecting yourself and your dcs.

Re the lying. How can you know if he has been lying to you and to his dd for 20 years . Or he is lying now about having lied for that long??
Whatever is happening, he is a liar committed to protecting himself first and foremost.
You, on the other side, should be committed to protect yourself and your dcs.

Leave. Just leave. Don’t spend hours and hours trying to understand what he has or hasn’t done. If he could be trusted for A but not for B. What he is is totally untrustworthy twat. You are unlikely to ever know or understand what is or isnt going on. Let that go.

@R0SEMARY

My kids are older teens. I called my husband DH because it’s MN shorthand, he’s not my darling husband and I don’t still have feelings for him. We have lived pretty much apart for years and any love is long gone.

Your DC are older teens:

1. Tell them about their dad. They are old enough. They need to know he told lies about you to his daughter. Explain why SD has uninvited you.

1. LTB there’s no excuse of “staying for the kids” when they’re nearly adults. He uses you as a doormat. No, worse. An emotional punchbag.

1. Talk to your family and close friends. Ask for support on how you can LTB.

He’s cheated on you several times. He lies over and over again.

Listen to PP who have managed to get away from their abusive husbands.

[quote CutePixie]@R0SEMARY

My kids are older teens. I called my husband DH because it’s MN shorthand, he’s not my darling husband and I don’t still have feelings for him. We have lived pretty much apart for years and any love is long gone.

Your DC are older teens:

1. Tell them about their dad. They are old enough. They need to know he told lies about you to his daughter. Explain why SD has uninvited you.

1. LTB there’s no excuse of “staying for the kids” when they’re nearly adults. He uses you as a doormat. No, worse. An emotional punchbag.

1. Talk to your family and close friends. Ask for support on how you can LTB.

He’s cheated on you several times. He lies over and over again.

Listen to PP who have managed to get away from their abusive husbands.[/quote]
All of this.

Currently while I appreciate you have been a victim of poor treatment from an absolute cunt, you are now enabling said cunt to continue behaving in a way that will damage your mental health, your children's idea of what a relationship looks like and your children's relationship with you. For example, if I was the child you say thinks they might be gay / bi, I would feel especially shit you were making me continue to live under the same roof as someone homophobic.

This is bigger than you and him now. Start modelling healthy behaviour - your kids won't thank you for staying 'for them' as they will have to live with the damage done by growing up in a toxic household. Again, yes that's your husbands fault for being so very toxic but you have agency in whether or not you stay there whereas they don't.

Please, please, please, go and see a solicitor next week. Your "leaving" him will not be as bad as you think. You are married, you are entitled to half the assets and that includes the business assets. Make sure you have your finger on the pulse with regards to the business. Don't let him con you, check the bank balance, check the drawings or dividends (make sure the dividends are correct and he has not placed them in your name without you actually receiving them).

I think you husband sounds absolutely bloody awful and it is not often I get moved by a post but I did by yours.