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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Feeling a bit caught between DP and my DMum- new baby on the way

277 replies

LittleRa · 16/02/2021 08:50

I’m 37 weeks pregnant with my second baby, however it is my DP’s first (my nearly 7yo DD is from a previous relationship).
Obviously we’re all very excited Grin

Last night DP and I got talking about birth choices and preferences etc, and the conversation also led on to preferences for after the birth, with a newborn baby.

Now, my DMum can be a little bit.... overbearing. We have had some tense moments over the years, but nothing major, no big fall outs, more just frustrations. I think she is kind of a snob and sometimes says things without thinking, she also has ridiculously high standards that she holds me and my sister to. However, I know that this is because she wants the best for us. I think she sometimes forgets we’re grown ups now Grin She also does absolutely loads for me and for DD- she picks my DD up from school two days a week and while she’s at my house she does laundry, cleans the bathroom etc. She’s bought loads of things for the new baby (probably unnecessarily so...) and has washed all the new baby clothes. She sends my DD little presents in the post (during lockdown). She’s very generous and kind.

However, I completely understand this feeling that she gives my DP, that he voiced last night, that she is judgemental or that things one does aren’t good enough for her. Obviously she makes me feel like that- she’s my Mum!! Grin But I’m sad to hear she makes him feel like that too. I’ve told him she doesn’t mean it and it’s just her way, she probably goes home and kicks herself about things she’s said.

An example is that when she was at my house looking after DD, a slightly batty neighbour caught her in the street and said “You have to tell your son in law not to park his car there, as it makes it tricky for me to get my bins through on bin day”. When my DP got home from work, DM passed this “message” on from neighbour, saying things like “it’s important to get along with your neighbours” and suggesting alternative places to park along the street. This got his back up a bit as he didn’t want to be dictated to about where to park, by either the neighbour or DM. Later that night DM texted saying she was sorry she’d got involved, she shouldn’t have said anything etc.

Now, DP is very laid back, and is extremely supportive of me. He’s happy to support my choices in birth, parenting, with the baby etc. However, what was coming out of the conversation last night was that his preference would be to not have DM round on the first few days, maybe first week after the baby is born. I had assumed we would form an under 1s bubble (we already have a childcare bubble for DD but this allows her to look after DD, not to be in the house with me socialising). She’s my DM and I feel like after the birth she will be able to be such a big help- like I said, she does several loads of laundry each time she’s here, changes my DD’s bed sheets, does dishes, she’ll cook if we’re going to be late home from work. Also because she’s my Mum, I’ll feel she can support with more intimate care like if I’m getting breastfeeding established, if I’ve got stitches and am bleeding etc.

DP says he really does appreciate all the things she does for us, but as a first time parent to a newborn (DD was 3 when we met) he wants time to be able to establish confidence without feeling like he’s being judged for “doing it wrong” or that any unthinking comments will be made that make him feel inadequate or awkward. He feels that after the first little bit once we’re a bit more established in our roles as new parents to a newborn would be the time to introduce other people to the situation.

We’ve been doing NCT and some of the other couples have spoken about how Covid restrictions and lockdown have meant that they’ve decided to say no visitors at all (eg if they both have sets of divorced parents to choose from, easier to just say no one). I definitely feel that having the restrictions as an excuse to not have streams of visitors coming in and out (which I do remember having when DD was newborn) is a good thing! But I feel just DM is different. But I do understand what DP is saying and would like to be in our own little world for a while too!

I have said to him that if DM doesn’t come to help, then I will need him to step up with the household jobs that she does. Which he’s said he of course would.

Just some other info-
-DM was also her same overbearing self when DD was born but she was still working full time then whereas she has since retired so has a lot more time to dedicate to family. She lives about 45 mins away, so not on the doorstep.
-DP will have 2 weeks paternity leave, and then be back to work, so I suppose that will be the time I really need DM to come during the day and help.

I’m not sure whether I should say to DP- suck it up, I need my DM to help too and if she makes any comments just let them go over your head, she means well and I trust you and know you will be an amazing dad. Or say to DM- when we come out of hospital we want a few days/week where you don’t come round while we find our feet. I know she would be sad about that. Also, she will be looking after DD when we’re in hospital.
Am I overthinking, shall I play it by ear and see how it goes a bit more, or do I need to manage expectations beforehand. I was wondering about saying something to DM like DP is feeling nervous about becoming a new Dad and so to be mindful of being positive and supportive etc and that we’ll need time. I have actually joked to DP to give it a few days and he’ll be ringing her up begging her to come and help out Grin

OP posts:
ravenmum · 16/02/2021 13:13

I’ve told him she doesn’t mean it and it’s just her way
This is what my exh used to say about his parents.
Many years later, our son (age 18) was in therapy for his anxiety, and we did a shared session. One point the therapist brought up was our son's relationship with his grandparents. He mentioned a particularly hurtful thing his grandfather said. Exh commented "But he doesn't mean it" as usual. The therapist patiently pointed out that even when someone doesn't mean to hurt you, you can still show them that they have hurt you and ask them to apologise or change their behaviour. I sat there wishing I'd had decent therapy at my son's age, in which case I wouldn't just have put up with their behaviour for so long.

*She doesn’t mean it and it’s just her way" - I really came to hate that phrase, as it meant I was the one being unreasonable if I said anything. When actually, it was them. My exh never had my back, and this phrase was the prime example of that.

ElspethFlashman · 16/02/2021 13:22

I'd love to know what her expectations are.

I find it a bit unusual that at 37 weeks, your mother has not intimated what she imagines it'll look like in just 3 weeks time.

AbiBrown · 16/02/2021 13:31

I have to say I find the comments about it being weird you're "enmeshed" with your mum very sad. It's great that you have such a close relationship with your mother. I do to and honestly feel sorry for those who don't. And may I ask, is it a cultural thing? We re Mediterranean and my parents are very involved we're very open with each other and I always feel supported. But it's just normal for us
My husband is English and he was taken aback by it but now very much enjoys at as he is treated like their son. I definitely needed my mum after the birth of my daughter. Yes it's doable without that help but why the hell drag people down if they have that option? It's not a race to the bottom and I wish all women had access to the help and support they d deserve post birth as it's utterly shite here at the moment!

EnglishRain · 16/02/2021 13:38

I think it will be very difficult for your DM if you turn around and say she can't come round for a couple of weeks when the baby is born now, when you utilise her help so much. I'd be tempted to say you're conscious DD may struggle with the change, it's DP's first experience of a newborn etc so it's best she just pops round for an hour or two in the first week and take it from there.

Problem is your DP will be learning on the job for ages, you will need to manage your DM long term in that sense. New dads often find it hard to feel involved and baby often wants mum as they spend all day every day with mum when dad is at work, it takes time for that to change.

I had a c section in the summer, DH and I coped just fine without anyone coming around to help us. No one has done our laundry or helped clean the house or cooked. We don't have another child but we do have three dogs that need walking etc. You probably won't 'need' loads of help straight away.

OutingMyself · 16/02/2021 13:55

@AbiBrown

I have to say I find the comments about it being weird you're "enmeshed" with your mum very sad. It's great that you have such a close relationship with your mother. I do to and honestly feel sorry for those who don't. And may I ask, is it a cultural thing? We re Mediterranean and my parents are very involved we're very open with each other and I always feel supported. But it's just normal for us My husband is English and he was taken aback by it but now very much enjoys at as he is treated like their son. I definitely needed my mum after the birth of my daughter. Yes it's doable without that help but why the hell drag people down if they have that option? It's not a race to the bottom and I wish all women had access to the help and support they d deserve post birth as it's utterly shite here at the moment!
Because it's directly against what her partner, the baby's dad, wants!
2021vision · 16/02/2021 13:56

OP I would be careful here. Whilst I appreciate what you DP is saying, it doesn't sound like he steps up. He's happy for your father to cut the grass and your mother to do a load of housekeeping/cleaning. You're in danger of pushing your DM away only to find that your DP doesn't step up. I would be having an honest coversation with your DM now saying that DP wants to step up and needs the space to do it, she will understand. If he does, well fab, but if he doesn't you havent alienated her and found yourself having to cope with all the wifework and little or no support.

worried3012 · 16/02/2021 14:11

I feel a bit sorry for your mum. She sounds like she just wants to help you and that's lovely of her even if it's not always wanted or necessary.
Half of these things could be solved with communication, and explaining things to her otherwise how else will she know she's being a bit over bearing.
I do see your DP side as well, so a few days/week is fine while you get used to the change in your life. Just explain it to her and I'm sure she'll understand.

Butterymuffin · 16/02/2021 14:11

The grandparenting side of what she does is nice, benefits your daughter, and isn't as out of line with the childcare I know some grandparents do. So one way forward might be to try to maintain that while cutting back some of the general help and housekeeping things. Maybe your daughter could stay over with her for a few days (as long as that wouldn't make her feel pushed out) later in the 2 weeks of paternity leave, so you and DP get some alone time with baby?

I also thought it was striking that you proposed tackling this with your mum by telling her DP was nervous - i.e. saying it's his problem / deficiency. Is there no way you could tell your mum to rein in her critical remarks? And I mean the ones about you as well as about other people. You seem to take it as a given that there's no way to ever challenge that. What if she later starts doing this with your kids? Will you also tell them she doesn't mean it and they have to let it go when Grandma makes them feel bad?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 16/02/2021 14:22

This is one of those threads where I'd love to hear the DP's version, and although the actual words "suck it up" wouldn't been used I suspect that's what he's hearing - especially with the usual minimising thing of "she means well"

FWIW I think you're doing the right thing in planning to speak to her, OP. You can put it nicely and I'm sure you will Smile, but for the sake of family harmony it does need saying - and following up on if the natural excitement over the new baby causes things to slip a little

Good luck with it all too; on the whole your DP sounds like a good 'un and I'm sure you'll work it all out just fine

ThereOnceWasANote · 16/02/2021 14:25

You say you feel 'stuck in the middle' - the reality is you should be on your DPs side. Your priority support be your relationship with him. It's his home, his baby and his time off work - please don't fall into the trap of thinking your mum has as much say in your lives as he does.

saraclara · 16/02/2021 14:32

You really are cosseted, OP. I'd be a bit embarrassed if, in my 30s, my father came round to mow my lawn regularly. Does your partner actually want him to do this?-

It seems like your parents are wanting to be the alphas on your family unit, and preventing you being an independent adult couple.

It's perfectly possible to have a warm and close relationship with your parents, and for both parties to help each other out occasionally. But your parents are taking responsibility for domestic areas of your life which should be your responsibly. They don't want to see you as grown up and independent of them, and that's a bit worrying.

averythinline · 16/02/2021 14:37

I think your DP is perfectly reasonable not to want your mum around whilst hes at home with you and your children...

Why is that hard to say to your mum? you do sound quite emeshed..

Does she have any hobbies etc as she has retired - much as I would like someone to sort my laundry in my head it stil sounds like shes treating you as a child... have you ever lived indepently?

you may well be willing to put up with her comments/digs but your DP shouldnt have to -

you need to establish yourselves as a family

LittleRa · 16/02/2021 14:41

@averythinline

I think your DP is perfectly reasonable not to want your mum around whilst hes at home with you and your children...

Why is that hard to say to your mum? you do sound quite emeshed..

Does she have any hobbies etc as she has retired - much as I would like someone to sort my laundry in my head it stil sounds like shes treating you as a child... have you ever lived indepently?

you may well be willing to put up with her comments/digs but your DP shouldnt have to -

you need to establish yourselves as a family

I moved out of my parent’s house at 18 to go to Uni and have never lived back there since. I have lived with friends, boyfriends etc, and also been married and divorced. My mum worked full time as a Head Teacher. I had DD nearly 7 years ago and she retired the year after so they two things coincided for her to become more involved I suppose.
OP posts:
LittleRa · 16/02/2021 14:41

@averythinline

I think your DP is perfectly reasonable not to want your mum around whilst hes at home with you and your children...

Why is that hard to say to your mum? you do sound quite emeshed..

Does she have any hobbies etc as she has retired - much as I would like someone to sort my laundry in my head it stil sounds like shes treating you as a child... have you ever lived indepently?

you may well be willing to put up with her comments/digs but your DP shouldnt have to -

you need to establish yourselves as a family

It’s hard to say because it’s never nice to tell someone they aren’t wanted.
OP posts:
theleafandnotthetree · 16/02/2021 14:43

I reckon a lot of this dynamic is a relic of a time when you had a really useless partner - i.e. the father of your daughter and/or were a single parent. I do see a lot of this continuing dependency where such is the case, where effectively the family of origin operate as a kind of substitute partner. However you have a partner now and he sounds solid enough so some shifting of this dynamic will be needed, especially with another child coming into the frame. It doesn't have to be some big dramatic thing, but I do think it will be necessary to the quality of your relationship with your partner and his feelings of autonomy and agency as a parent and adult in the household

LittleRa · 16/02/2021 14:44

@theleafandnotthetree

I reckon a lot of this dynamic is a relic of a time when you had a really useless partner - i.e. the father of your daughter and/or were a single parent. I do see a lot of this continuing dependency where such is the case, where effectively the family of origin operate as a kind of substitute partner. However you have a partner now and he sounds solid enough so some shifting of this dynamic will be needed, especially with another child coming into the frame. It doesn't have to be some big dramatic thing, but I do think it will be necessary to the quality of your relationship with your partner and his feelings of autonomy and agency as a parent and adult in the household
I think this is probably true.
OP posts:
Justmuddlingalong · 16/02/2021 14:47

It’s hard to say because it’s never nice to tell someone they aren’t wanted.
I don't think anyone's suggested you tell her she's not wanted.

LittleRa · 16/02/2021 14:52

@Justmuddlingalong

It’s hard to say because it’s never nice to tell someone they aren’t wanted. I don't think anyone's suggested you tell her she's not wanted.
Oh I know but as already established, she’s a bit funny and could take it that way.
OP posts:
FinallyHere · 16/02/2021 14:57

she doesn’t mean it and it’s just her way

I recognise this dynamic as very similar to my own one with my mother.

it’s a bit unrealistic for him to expect to never encounter any comments (from my DM or otherwise) along the parenting journey that might make him feel judged or whatever, and that you need to learn to let them go over your head

In his own house, with his own family, he really should not have to put up with anything that makes him feel judged.

Honestly, OP, it took a lot of gentle comments from my DH to realise I was still sticking to the ways things worked in my parents house. Now that you have a baby in the mix, it's really time to set some boundaries for you as a family unit.

If anyone wonders why fathers don't step up to the plate, it would be exactly because of what you are planning: father frozen out before he even gets started. It's already difficult for him because it's your second and his first. It's really a good time to let him get to grips himself.

Justmuddlingalong · 16/02/2021 14:57

So you feel awkward about having that conversation because of how you think she'll react? You, your DP and DC are your priority. I understand you don't want to hurt her feelings, but by carrying on as she is, she's riding roughshod over you and your DP's.

StormTreader · 16/02/2021 14:59

Letting her rush in and fill up all the random gaps in your life means your DH doesn't get the opportunity to fill those gaps, and living like a teenager where mummy does your washing and tidying and cleaning removes your space to grow into independent adulthood. I'm sure as an adult he is more than capable of handing you a pad!

Have you always lived with/near your mother?

LittleRa · 16/02/2021 15:00

@StormTreader

Letting her rush in and fill up all the random gaps in your life means your DH doesn't get the opportunity to fill those gaps, and living like a teenager where mummy does your washing and tidying and cleaning removes your space to grow into independent adulthood. I'm sure as an adult he is more than capable of handing you a pad!

Have you always lived with/near your mother?

I said above:

I moved out of my parent’s house at 18 to go to Uni and have never lived back there since. I have lived with friends, boyfriends etc, and also been married and divorced. My mum worked full time as a Head Teacher. I had DD nearly 7 years ago and she retired the year after so they two things coincided for her to become more involved I suppose.

OP posts:
StormTreader · 16/02/2021 15:02

I'm actually doing other things as well as posting here - that wasn't there when I started writing!
I would reiterate though, I'm sure as an adult he is more than capable of handing you a pad.

ravenmum · 16/02/2021 15:04

she’s a bit funny and could take it that way
Your partner, who's not "a bit funny", takes her comments in the way any normal person would, and you tell him "Oh, she doesn't mean it".
But you are tipteoing around not saying anything just in case your mum "accidentally" gets the wrong end of the stick when you make a perfectly normal request for privacy.
Do you see that you're placating your mum by letting your partner down?
Honestly, watch out for your relationship. I put up with years of feeling like my exh didn't care about my feelings. Will your partner do the same?

Justmuddlingalong · 16/02/2021 15:09

Don't throw your DP under the bus by saying it's him who has the issue with the overbearing behaviour. Have a grown up conversation about how you're grateful for all their help and support, especially during your time as a single mum, but that you and DP need to stand on your own two feet and find your own way of running the house, working and parenting. If she takes offence at that, you need to reiterate that you're both more than able to manage and that you need more independence. You're still her daughter, but an adult with a house, a job and a family and she should accept that.