Feeling a bit caught between DP and my DMum- new baby on the way

[LittleRa]

I’m 37 weeks pregnant with my second baby, however it is my DP’s first (my nearly 7yo DD is from a previous relationship).
Obviously we’re all very excited

Last night DP and I got talking about birth choices and preferences etc, and the conversation also led on to preferences for after the birth, with a newborn baby.

Now, my DMum can be a little bit.... overbearing. We have had some tense moments over the years, but nothing major, no big fall outs, more just frustrations. I think she is kind of a snob and sometimes says things without thinking, she also has ridiculously high standards that she holds me and my sister to. However, I know that this is because she wants the best for us. I think she sometimes forgets we’re grown ups now She also does absolutely loads for me and for DD- she picks my DD up from school two days a week and while she’s at my house she does laundry, cleans the bathroom etc. She’s bought loads of things for the new baby (probably unnecessarily so...) and has washed all the new baby clothes. She sends my DD little presents in the post (during lockdown). She’s very generous and kind.

However, I completely understand this feeling that she gives my DP, that he voiced last night, that she is judgemental or that things one does aren’t good enough for her. Obviously she makes me feel like that- she’s my Mum!! But I’m sad to hear she makes him feel like that too. I’ve told him she doesn’t mean it and it’s just her way, she probably goes home and kicks herself about things she’s said.

An example is that when she was at my house looking after DD, a slightly batty neighbour caught her in the street and said “You have to tell your son in law not to park his car there, as it makes it tricky for me to get my bins through on bin day”. When my DP got home from work, DM passed this “message” on from neighbour, saying things like “it’s important to get along with your neighbours” and suggesting alternative places to park along the street. This got his back up a bit as he didn’t want to be dictated to about where to park, by either the neighbour or DM. Later that night DM texted saying she was sorry she’d got involved, she shouldn’t have said anything etc.

Now, DP is very laid back, and is extremely supportive of me. He’s happy to support my choices in birth, parenting, with the baby etc. However, what was coming out of the conversation last night was that his preference would be to not have DM round on the first few days, maybe first week after the baby is born. I had assumed we would form an under 1s bubble (we already have a childcare bubble for DD but this allows her to look after DD, not to be in the house with me socialising). She’s my DM and I feel like after the birth she will be able to be such a big help- like I said, she does several loads of laundry each time she’s here, changes my DD’s bed sheets, does dishes, she’ll cook if we’re going to be late home from work. Also because she’s my Mum, I’ll feel she can support with more intimate care like if I’m getting breastfeeding established, if I’ve got stitches and am bleeding etc.

DP says he really does appreciate all the things she does for us, but as a first time parent to a newborn (DD was 3 when we met) he wants time to be able to establish confidence without feeling like he’s being judged for “doing it wrong” or that any unthinking comments will be made that make him feel inadequate or awkward. He feels that after the first little bit once we’re a bit more established in our roles as new parents to a newborn would be the time to introduce other people to the situation.

We’ve been doing NCT and some of the other couples have spoken about how Covid restrictions and lockdown have meant that they’ve decided to say no visitors at all (eg if they both have sets of divorced parents to choose from, easier to just say no one). I definitely feel that having the restrictions as an excuse to not have streams of visitors coming in and out (which I do remember having when DD was newborn) is a good thing! But I feel just DM is different. But I do understand what DP is saying and would like to be in our own little world for a while too!

I have said to him that if DM doesn’t come to help, then I will need him to step up with the household jobs that she does. Which he’s said he of course would.

Just some other info-
-DM was also her same overbearing self when DD was born but she was still working full time then whereas she has since retired so has a lot more time to dedicate to family. She lives about 45 mins away, so not on the doorstep.
-DP will have 2 weeks paternity leave, and then be back to work, so I suppose that will be the time I really need DM to come during the day and help.

I’m not sure whether I should say to DP- suck it up, I need my DM to help too and if she makes any comments just let them go over your head, she means well and I trust you and know you will be an amazing dad. Or say to DM- when we come out of hospital we want a few days/week where you don’t come round while we find our feet. I know she would be sad about that. Also, she will be looking after DD when we’re in hospital.
Am I overthinking, shall I play it by ear and see how it goes a bit more, or do I need to manage expectations beforehand. I was wondering about saying something to DM like DP is feeling nervous about becoming a new Dad and so to be mindful of being positive and supportive etc and that we’ll need time. I have actually joked to DP to give it a few days and he’ll be ringing her up begging her to come and help out

Obviously my mum came to visit as soon as ds1 was born, but she came to stay for a week when dh went back to work after paternity leave and it was really lovely for us to have that time together - both for me to have the help and to have the company. It softened the blow of suddenly being alone with ds1 all day.

That would feel like a good compromise in this situation too?

It’s never nice to tell someone they aren’t wanted ... she’s a bit funny and could take it that way

Obviously you wouldn't be suggesting she's "unwanted" at all, but it's not very nice if she's quick to take offence, yet does this to others while expecting it to be brushed off with an "oh you know what she's like / she didn't mean it"

Unfortunately there are a lot of people like this, and I expect it's not very nice for your partner either. As said, for the health of your relationship you really do need some rebalancing here, before DP begins to wonder just where he comes among your priorities

Continued thanks for all the comments, they really are giving me lots to think about and I’ve felt very up and down all day today.
The relationship with my Mum can be a tricky one for me, and I do feel conflicted about it because although yes, she can be overbearing and critical, I do feel she wants the best and intends to help, despite what some posters have said, and that she does reflect and regret things she’s said in the moment. However I’ve always thought it’s just directed at me and that I can “take it” as such, so I’m really sad to hear my DP voice that he’s concerned she will also be critical of him. As I said she hasn’t even said anything yet, so I sort of feel like she’s getting a bad rap before anything has even happened. However, of course I don’t want to get to the point where there is any bad feeling or resentment and I totally understand where my DP is coming from. As I’ve said, I am not desperate for my Mum to be around, and I’m not feeble and helpless so know I don’t NEED the help, I just felt it would be handy to have an extra pair of hands to lighten the load and help out so that we can concentrate on the baby. A lot of posters have commented on DP’s feeling vs DM’s feelings, but I feel that my feelings should be considered too- I’m the one that is going to be giving birth and recovering.
But as I’ve already said I will talk to my Mum and explain that we (as a united front) want some time alone to establish ourselves and settle into family life together and that there’ll be plenty of time down the road when we can help me when DP goes back to work etc. I’ll word it carefully and I’m sure she’ll be fine and understand, or if she’s a bit grumpy about it then it will be coming from me so will be me who has to get any comments and my DP will be protected from that.
I do think posters who have commented that I’m feeble for allowing my parents to help with domestic tasks are pretty unfair and the odd few saying that my parents have failed in their parenting of me and my sister are unnecessarily rude and personal.

@SuperbGorgonzola

I agree that I think it's important for him to do all the helping rather than your mum. She might be better/more experienced but he is the father, and I think insisting on your mum being there when he has said he would like to do it, is implying that you think he won't cope. If i were in his shoes i'd find that a bit upsetting.

I don’t think she is better/more experienced, and I don’t particularly want her help with the baby, but more with domestic tasks around the home to give us more time and energy to concentrate on the baby ourselves.

@sleepyhead

Obviously my mum came to visit as soon as ds1 was born, but she came to stay for a week when dh went back to work after paternity leave and it was really lovely for us to have that time together - both for me to have the help and to have the company. It softened the blow of suddenly being alone with ds1 all day.

That would feel like a good compromise in this situation too?

I absolutely don’t want her to stay over, that would be waaay too much for me and I don’t have the space anyway, she won’t be expecting that at all.

Well actually my mum didn't stay over either - we didn't have the space so she got a b&b, but she was around all day for a few days which is I assume what you were talking about this time?

@sleepyhead

Well actually my mum didn't stay over either - we didn't have the space so she got a b&b, but she was around all day for a few days which is I assume what you were talking about this time?

Not especially, all day would be too much Mum for me ha ha. She only lives 45 minutes away so it’s easy for her to pop up for an hour or two. She even sometimes takes laundry (especially my DD’s bedding and stuff like towels, tea towels etc) back to her house to wash there and bring back next time so she doesn’t need to be hanging around.

Ok, well I've changed my mind then. It doesn't seem like she would be encroaching hugely in your life, especially if she was doing housework and looking after your dd.

So you dh doesn't want her coming over at all? A couple of times a week, maybe spaced out by a few days doesn't seem like it could cause your dh too much stress.

I think what comes across here is that your mum doesn’t respect your / your dp’s personal boundaries and so you will need to set boundaries where you feel comfortable and then follow through, just like with a child. You will need to enforce those boundaries. She may learn over time to respect your boundaries but don’t expect her to - you will need to continue to remind her.
I think this is obvious from the example you gave with your neighbour - if your mum respected your dp’s boundaries, she would just say thank you for raising this with me but please speak to my daughter’s dp as it is his/their responsibility. It has nothing to do with your mum, she has no need to involve herself and that she is not capable of seeing this as the incident arises, signals her inability to respect boundaries.
It is time to grow up, you are not your mother’s child, you are an adult with your own boundaries which are right for you to feel comfortable with. Your dp is telling you something important.

littlera i think it is the domestic things that GIVE the father something to do in those early weeks though. The baby will be with you as the mum most of the time, especially if you are breastfeeding and I think feeling useful and contributing is an important part of the new dad's role.

Perhaps your mum can be on standby should you have a bad night but allow yourself to lean on and depend on him. That's what our partners are there for. I've had my second baby last year myself during the Lockdown and it was strange but OK doing it just by ourselves.

I feel really uncomfortable reading that your mother does the family laundry...Do you really want her seeing your partners and your own underwear? How does he feel about that, I would find it so intrusive!
You also say she also sometimes takes it all away to her's.
How does your partner feel about not even being able to mow his own lawn?
You say your mother was a head teacher, well it is clear to me that she is used to being in control....
Schools do not finish until after 3pm usually so why is she arriving at your house for 2pm?
I agree you need to put your family unit first and set some boundaries with your parent's going forward.
Obviously now is not such a good time with the excitement of your imminent baby.
However surely if you explain to her that you want to be alone with your family whilst your partner is on paternity leave she will understand. A short visit will suffice once baby is here.
As an aside I had two within eighteen months of each other, never had any help so just got on with it.
Good luck.

"The relationship with my Mum can be a tricky one for me, and I do feel conflicted about it because although yes, she can be overbearing and critical, I do feel she wants the best and intends to help, despite what some posters have said, and that she does reflect and regret things she’s said in the moment. However I’ve always thought it’s just directed at me and that I can “take it” as such, so I’m really sad to hear my DP voice that he’s concerned she will also be critical of him".

You would like to think she does not mean it really because the alternative i.e. she is not the nice person you have been led to believe she is, does not bear thinking about.

You should not ever had to merely take it from her; emotionally healthy people do not behave as your mother has done. You are an adult now and your own person, as is your partner. She has not allowed you to become your own person in your own right and I think she will continue to butt heads with him. Your loyalty here is to your partner, not necessarily your mother. She has to be secondary in your life now.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

"The relationship with my Mum can be a tricky one for me, and I do feel conflicted about it because although yes, she can be overbearing and critical, I do feel she wants the best and intends to help, despite what some posters have said, and that she does reflect and regret things she’s said in the moment. However I’ve always thought it’s just directed at me and that I can “take it” as such, so I’m really sad to hear my DP voice that he’s concerned she will also be critical of him".

You would like to think she does not mean it really because the alternative i.e. she is not the nice person you have been led to believe she is, does not bear thinking about.

You should not ever had to merely take it from her; emotionally healthy people do not behave as your mother has done. You are an adult now and your own person, as is your partner. She has not allowed you to become your own person in your own right and I think she will continue to butt heads with him. Your loyalty here is to your partner, not necessarily your mother. She has to be secondary in your life now.

I have actually asked you to stop commenting @AttilaTheMeerkat as I’ve said your comments are upsetting me, and you’ve gone on to comment another two times since then. Thank you for taking the time to give advice. But saying that my parents have failed at parenting and my mother is not a nice person is too personal and intrusive and not what I originally asked about (which was specifically the first weeks after the baby is born, not a review of my entire life and what a failure I am). Please step back now, with no bad feeling, please. Thank you.

Would you think that overbearing and critical people are nice?. No they are not. Your relationship with your mother is not healthy and that is on her.

Would you have tolerated such behaviour from a friend, no you would not have done. You have not failed here in any way. I know all too well how enmeshment damages families and nice people like you get harmed by such a dynamic. I am sorry that I have been too blunt here to you and so I apologise.

OP, having grown up in a dysfunctional family with enmeshment all over the place, I would suggest if you take on board the posts of one person on this thread, it would be those of @AttilaTheMeerkat
I've been reading these boards for quite some time and have seen amazing advice from her which I've been able to apply to my own situation. You are understandably defensive about your mother as this is possibly the first time anyone has suggested she is less than perfect.

When I became a mother, it was probably lucky for me that my mother was a few hours drive away so I didn't see her too often. But when I did there were comments all the time about I should be doing things differently, I was undermined by her but couldn't see it as I assumed she "meant well". Years later I realise that her family excuses unbelievably enmeshed behaviour with the excuse of whoever "meaning well".

As time went on, my mother's criticisms spread out to my children, they could never meet her "perfect" standards and although she didn't see them often, she was quite happy to tell me I was parenting all wrong. They are now grown up and they have no relationship with her. I do what is generally known as "grey rock" with her.

If she had only realised years ago that her job was to bring me up with decent values and to be capable of running my life as an adult, including making decisions about my own parenting, things could have been different. But she has never understood that it is not now her job to tell me what to do or to tell me that things I do are "letting her down".

If you have been here a while, you will probably have seen threads where the OP has posted about a situation but the problem has turned out to be something completely different to what they thought. For example someone thinking their mother-in-law is a problem and people tell them it's actually their DH. People here are good at spotting where there's an issue, they're not coloured by knowing the personalities involved. It's interesting that most people on this thread feel your mother is too enmeshed in your life and it's probably an unpleasant experience for you, especially as this is a time where you should be looking forward to new baby's arrival and not stressing about relationships. However, this is the time to set some boundaries and I do hope you find yourself able to do that. As time goes on, you may find you need to set consequences for not respecting boundaries but hopefully your mother will not push you to that point.

I would suggest you look up Attila's posts on Mumsnet, you will find she consistently gives really good advice. When her posts are for someone else you may not find them as harsh.

@LittleRa

Just to note for those coming on now and saying I’m prioritising my Mum etc, please do have a read through the thread as I’ve said a number of times I am going to respect my DP’s wishes and speak to her.

I have read the thread but it still doesn't sound like you're really respecting your DP's wishes because he wants you to have a bit of time to yourselves as soon as the baby is born and your response is you're going to talk to your mum, like you need her permission. What if she reacts badly and says she's hurt? What will your response be then?

It sounds to me as though you are walking on eggshells where your DM is concerned. Everything is about appeasing her, including letting her clean your house. It sounds like a lovely gesture and I'd love the extra help myself, but when you describe what your mum is like it sounds as though she's exercising control over you. She doesn't see you as competent adult, nor your DP, so she has to take care of your house and your DD. This quote also jumped out from one of your early posts:

So I was surprised when he voiced how he felt last night, and also felt sad because I know she makes me feel like that and I was sad to know she also makes him feel judged and interfered with.

It's really sad she makes you feel like that and you should put her straight about her behaviour, not put her feelings above your DP's.

@worried3012

I feel a bit sorry for your mum. She sounds like she just wants to help you and that's lovely of her even if it's not always wanted or necessary. Half of these things could be solved with communication, and explaining things to her otherwise how else will she know she's being a bit over bearing. I do see your DP side as well, so a few days/week is fine while you get used to the change in your life. Just explain it to her and I'm sure she'll understand.

^^This

They have a close relationship. Hardly 'enmeshed'.

As long as the OP realises she has to prioritise her DP and child it won't be a problem.

If she can speak to her mum if she does overstep the mark (and it sounds like she can) all will be fine.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

Would you think that overbearing and critical people are nice?. No they are not. Your relationship with your mother is not healthy and that is on her.

Would you have tolerated such behaviour from a friend, no you would not have done. You have not failed here in any way. I know all too well how enmeshment damages families and nice people like you get harmed by such a dynamic. I am sorry that I have been too blunt here to you and so I apologise.

Blimey! Give it up!

Her relationship with her mother is absolutely fine.

Her mother isn't going against the OP's wishes. And if the OP now has a rethink and wants less from her mum then that's up to her.

Many of us would have liked the level of help the OP has had or would have liked to give the amount of help the OP has had. Doesn't make anyone a bad person.

It may be that it's just your mums personality that is the thorny issue.

It sounds like if she was socially smoother and more agreeable, then your DP wouldn't mind her being around during this time.

But she cant change her personality.

HelenUrth with respect, if the OP asks a poster to leave their thread, it's bad form to tell them they're wrong.

I haven't read every single response but I do get the impression that some posters are desperate to point out how dysfunctional you / your mother are. Which I think is ridiculous.

My mother could be judgemental and expected us to have the same standards as she did, so I do understand that it isn't always helpful, but in my case, I learnt to ignore what I didn't agree with or just say "we don't do that".

My parents didn't live close enough to help out regularly but they did do things like come up for a day and pave the garden or help with planting. DH and I were in our 30s when my dad re did our front path and steps for us - coming up by train on separate days. He wasn't interfering, he was retired and enjoyed helping us out.

We had our first child at 40. My mil, by then widowed, used to come to stay to look after our child 2 days a week when I first went back to work. She didn't do the household jobs, as she probably thought I'd be offended and I would never have asked her to, but we were very grateful for the support. Once when DH was away and I had a really bad stomach bug, she offered to stay over another night so I didnt have to put my DC to bed etc. I was so grateful and certainly didn"t consider us over-enmeshed (though I would have preferred not to have had her stay overnight!).

Re your DP, I think its good that he has been honest with you, as it's not easy to criticise other people's family members. I think it's right that he should spend time just with you and the baby to start with but I don't think it's bad that your mother does a bit of housework, when she comes over to mind your dd. I know lots of families where parents are in their 30s and their own parents help out with childcare etc. My mil later moved close to us and often babysat for us. It is normal where famies live close by to offer support and care.

I was sad when my parents and mil became too old to offer the support they had done in the past. Its nice to have support and have someone trustworthy to call on. Just because you can manage without, doesn't mean you shpukd ho put of your way to push people away who are happy to help. Many cultures expect to live as three generations, maybe our society is at fault?

PS not saying that it is ok for a mother to criticise her adult child. It was the thing I didn't like about my mother, but she had many other good qualities. She wasn't overbearing but her comments could sting. I learnt to manage it but my sister who never had such a good relationship with her, found it more difficult.

If you don't want her doing the tasks she does, you should say so, of course, but that doesn't mean you should view her as toxic and cut her out as some seem to suggest.

@Onelifeonly but what you describe as helping is what most people would accept as normal. You've said yourself she didn't do chores. She looked after DC.

My own DM would offer to come stay if I were ill and DH is away but that would be to look after DC. She'd cook and wash up but I don't think she'd dream of doing laundry or stripping beds...the only situation where that would happen is if I were hospitalised.

Well done op on taking onboard all the comments and advice on this thread. I’m glad you are prioritising your Dp, and recognising his views.

Hey OP
I've found this thread an interesting one to follow, with the responses.
I think if you'd posted "I'd like my mum to help out for a few hours a day after the birth because I think it will be useful for us to have some extra help, but my DP isn't keen, what do people think?" you'd have to different responses. Instead you've taken pains to describe why your DM is potentially justified in wanting to come & help, and also why your DP is potentially justified in not wanting her to come and help, but both of them are both lovely people.
You write in a way that things are happening to you rather than advocating what you want. For example you repeatedly describe why you accept help from your mum with housework etc as "it is helpful" not "I like her doing it". Is it really like this, or is it just the way you write?
If it is, I think this is why you find yourself "caught between" your DP & DM, as you describe it - you are now faced with two people who are apparently quite clear about what they want, and you need to decide.
A lot of your behaviour, as you describe it, is avoiding confrontation and putting people out. I think that's what people are picking up on, which is why you're getting strong views.
Be clear about what you want, discuss it with your DP, agree jointly a plan and communicate it to people. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that.
Congratulations on your LO!