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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Feeling a bit caught between DP and my DMum- new baby on the way

277 replies

LittleRa · 16/02/2021 08:50

I’m 37 weeks pregnant with my second baby, however it is my DP’s first (my nearly 7yo DD is from a previous relationship).
Obviously we’re all very excited Grin

Last night DP and I got talking about birth choices and preferences etc, and the conversation also led on to preferences for after the birth, with a newborn baby.

Now, my DMum can be a little bit.... overbearing. We have had some tense moments over the years, but nothing major, no big fall outs, more just frustrations. I think she is kind of a snob and sometimes says things without thinking, she also has ridiculously high standards that she holds me and my sister to. However, I know that this is because she wants the best for us. I think she sometimes forgets we’re grown ups now Grin She also does absolutely loads for me and for DD- she picks my DD up from school two days a week and while she’s at my house she does laundry, cleans the bathroom etc. She’s bought loads of things for the new baby (probably unnecessarily so...) and has washed all the new baby clothes. She sends my DD little presents in the post (during lockdown). She’s very generous and kind.

However, I completely understand this feeling that she gives my DP, that he voiced last night, that she is judgemental or that things one does aren’t good enough for her. Obviously she makes me feel like that- she’s my Mum!! Grin But I’m sad to hear she makes him feel like that too. I’ve told him she doesn’t mean it and it’s just her way, she probably goes home and kicks herself about things she’s said.

An example is that when she was at my house looking after DD, a slightly batty neighbour caught her in the street and said “You have to tell your son in law not to park his car there, as it makes it tricky for me to get my bins through on bin day”. When my DP got home from work, DM passed this “message” on from neighbour, saying things like “it’s important to get along with your neighbours” and suggesting alternative places to park along the street. This got his back up a bit as he didn’t want to be dictated to about where to park, by either the neighbour or DM. Later that night DM texted saying she was sorry she’d got involved, she shouldn’t have said anything etc.

Now, DP is very laid back, and is extremely supportive of me. He’s happy to support my choices in birth, parenting, with the baby etc. However, what was coming out of the conversation last night was that his preference would be to not have DM round on the first few days, maybe first week after the baby is born. I had assumed we would form an under 1s bubble (we already have a childcare bubble for DD but this allows her to look after DD, not to be in the house with me socialising). She’s my DM and I feel like after the birth she will be able to be such a big help- like I said, she does several loads of laundry each time she’s here, changes my DD’s bed sheets, does dishes, she’ll cook if we’re going to be late home from work. Also because she’s my Mum, I’ll feel she can support with more intimate care like if I’m getting breastfeeding established, if I’ve got stitches and am bleeding etc.

DP says he really does appreciate all the things she does for us, but as a first time parent to a newborn (DD was 3 when we met) he wants time to be able to establish confidence without feeling like he’s being judged for “doing it wrong” or that any unthinking comments will be made that make him feel inadequate or awkward. He feels that after the first little bit once we’re a bit more established in our roles as new parents to a newborn would be the time to introduce other people to the situation.

We’ve been doing NCT and some of the other couples have spoken about how Covid restrictions and lockdown have meant that they’ve decided to say no visitors at all (eg if they both have sets of divorced parents to choose from, easier to just say no one). I definitely feel that having the restrictions as an excuse to not have streams of visitors coming in and out (which I do remember having when DD was newborn) is a good thing! But I feel just DM is different. But I do understand what DP is saying and would like to be in our own little world for a while too!

I have said to him that if DM doesn’t come to help, then I will need him to step up with the household jobs that she does. Which he’s said he of course would.

Just some other info-
-DM was also her same overbearing self when DD was born but she was still working full time then whereas she has since retired so has a lot more time to dedicate to family. She lives about 45 mins away, so not on the doorstep.
-DP will have 2 weeks paternity leave, and then be back to work, so I suppose that will be the time I really need DM to come during the day and help.

I’m not sure whether I should say to DP- suck it up, I need my DM to help too and if she makes any comments just let them go over your head, she means well and I trust you and know you will be an amazing dad. Or say to DM- when we come out of hospital we want a few days/week where you don’t come round while we find our feet. I know she would be sad about that. Also, she will be looking after DD when we’re in hospital.
Am I overthinking, shall I play it by ear and see how it goes a bit more, or do I need to manage expectations beforehand. I was wondering about saying something to DM like DP is feeling nervous about becoming a new Dad and so to be mindful of being positive and supportive etc and that we’ll need time. I have actually joked to DP to give it a few days and he’ll be ringing her up begging her to come and help out Grin

OP posts:
Butterymuffin · 16/02/2021 20:26

However I’ve always thought it’s just directed at me and that I can “take it” as such, so I’m really sad to hear my DP voice that he’s concerned she will also be critical of him.

This is where things look very different from within a family versus being someone who's an in law. You're thinking that your mum has licence to criticise you because she's your mum and you've grown up with it. She's allowed to be hard on you because she's family. Whereas he's probably thinking 'blimey, if she finds fault with LittleRa, her own daughter, how much worse will she be with me?' and not seeing it as you would. You've both normalised it and also you see it as something she would only do with family, as a kind of indulgence. He doesn't. Is she like it with your dad?

Asurvivor · 16/02/2021 20:27

I think what people are reacting is that it is concerning that a woman with a family of her own is not able to say to her mum, with no worry or guilt etc, thanks for your help mum, we’d like some time on our own at first as a family and then we’d be happy to see you. What is concerning is that the op seems unable to assert her own family boundaries (her & dp’s needs for some time to themselves) because her mother’s need to be involved seems to come first. The op seems more concerned with disappointing her mother, even where her mother is not giving her the space to be herself, than making her own family happy.

SuperbGorgonzola · 16/02/2021 20:35

Totally agree with @Asurvivor 's take on the situation.

My mum is (pre-covid) very involved and does a lot for our family too but I would feel comfortable saying to her that we wanted time to ourselves.

I did, for instance, have to ask her to stop helping me when she washed a load of newborn baby clothes i'd got down from storage. She thought she was helping me out while she was minding my eldest, but I'd been looking forward to doing them as a bit of a nesting task. She was fine about it and apologised and that was that.

HelenUrth · 16/02/2021 21:33

ElspethFlashman, with respect, if I think a poster has been giving good advice (and I genuinely think Attila gives excellent advice), I am not doing anything wrong by saying that.

These are the Talk guidelines, I don't think I'm breaking any,
No personal attacks
No posts that break the law, including hate speech of any kind
No trolling, misleading or deliberately inflammatory behaviour
No trollhunting
No spamming.
But I would say your response to me was bad form and unwarranted.

LittleRa · 16/02/2021 21:41

@HelenUrth

ElspethFlashman, with respect, if I think a poster has been giving good advice (and I genuinely think Attila gives excellent advice), I am not doing anything wrong by saying that.

These are the Talk guidelines, I don't think I'm breaking any,
No personal attacks
No posts that break the law, including hate speech of any kind
No trolling, misleading or deliberately inflammatory behaviour
No trollhunting
No spamming.
But I would say your response to me was bad form and unwarranted.

@HelenUrth Thank you for your input but as @ElspethFlashman pointed out, I did respectfully request that that poster in question not comment any further as the line she was going down was not in answer to my original question and was becoming personal and upsetting- from the list of talk guidelines you have posted, I’d say it could be argued as a “personal attack” to say that my parents were failures and my mother is not a very nice person, when really she doesn’t know me or them at all. Either way, even if you don’t feel it was a personal attack, please respect that I did ask for no further comments along those lines, and I appreciate the support from @elspethflashman that I did not find unwarranted.
OP posts:
Alwaysandforeverhere · 16/02/2021 21:43

I mean it’s an open forum. You are going to hear things you don’t want to hear and unless mn remove the posts anyone can post what they want. If you are not prepared for that or to step away yourself maybe don’t take it to heart or step away. The internet isn’t all nice and cuddly and hearing what you want.

LittleRa · 16/02/2021 21:52

@Alwaysandforeverhere

I mean it’s an open forum. You are going to hear things you don’t want to hear and unless mn remove the posts anyone can post what they want. If you are not prepared for that or to step away yourself maybe don’t take it to heart or step away. The internet isn’t all nice and cuddly and hearing what you want.
I know anyone can post anything they want, but why would someone choose to continue to post things that have been pointed out to be upsetting when asked respectfully to step away? Just seems a bit horrible for the sake of it? The poster in question, who I did thank for her input, seems to have respected my request, which I greatly appreciate. We’re all grown ups and I don’t see why something has to break the rules and be removed by MNHQ to be considered a bit too unkind and come to a mutual understanding.
OP posts:
Vivi0 · 16/02/2021 22:00

@Asurvivor

I think what people are reacting is that it is concerning that a woman with a family of her own is not able to say to her mum, with no worry or guilt etc, thanks for your help mum, we’d like some time on our own at first as a family and then we’d be happy to see you. What is concerning is that the op seems unable to assert her own family boundaries (her & dp’s needs for some time to themselves) because her mother’s need to be involved seems to come first. The op seems more concerned with disappointing her mother, even where her mother is not giving her the space to be herself, than making her own family happy.
This ^

I don’t understand the difficulty in saying “Look mum, DP has 2 weeks of paternity leave, and we really want to make the most of this time together as a family.”

Nor do I understand why you keep saying you’ll need “an extra pair of hands” after the baby is born. Why? It’s quite clear that your mum needs to be needed, and it seems that you’re only too happy to play along and make sure she is needed.

I really don’t think that your mum is going to respond well to you setting boundaries OP and I think you know that.

HelenUrth · 16/02/2021 22:03

Actually LittleRa, my response was directly to ElspethFlashman rather than you. It was her response to me I felt was unwarranted.

I actually opened up and mentioned things in my life that have been very difficult. Having read many threads on these boards, I agree with an awful lot said by, let's call her "She who shall not be named", I was just suggesting you look at her posts. When they're not meant for you, you might be able to see better that actually she's really helpful.

Anyway, I hoped giving you some details re my own situation may be useful and was upset that Elspeth decided to berate me for my post.

LittleRa · 16/02/2021 22:06

@HelenUrth

Actually LittleRa, my response was directly to ElspethFlashman rather than you. It was her response to me I felt was unwarranted.

I actually opened up and mentioned things in my life that have been very difficult. Having read many threads on these boards, I agree with an awful lot said by, let's call her "She who shall not be named", I was just suggesting you look at her posts. When they're not meant for you, you might be able to see better that actually she's really helpful.

Anyway, I hoped giving you some details re my own situation may be useful and was upset that Elspeth decided to berate me for my post.

Thank you, I do appreciate you sharing your views and experiences.
OP posts:
lulujuju · 16/02/2021 22:18

I'd use the birth of your baby to reset expectations and take control back. I agree with PP, the domestic stuff will be part of how your DP will be involved when he's on paternity leave as well as learning how to look after a newborn.
Has your DP ever dropped any hints that he's not happy with your mum doing washing and cleaning etc.? My DP would hate that. Obviously it's helpful but also an intrusion, your mum is deciding what needs to be done with no input from you, the childcare sounds lovely though.
It's really difficult as your DP won't want to upset you but he's telling you what he wants and needs, plenty of time for your mum to help when he's back at work.

SilverRoe · 16/02/2021 22:35

Can’t you just ask your mum to step back and be on standby if you both feel you could use an extra pair of hands after a few days? That way your DP gets that time and if you both agree it would be nice to have extra support after a bit then you can let your mum know?

That’s the sort of way i’d do it, just play it by ear, I thought that was what a lot of people did anyway since you never quite know how it will be with a new baby on the first couple of weeks. Seems like a reasonable compromise?

Mydogmylife · 17/02/2021 00:01

@Butterymuffin

However I’ve always thought it’s just directed at me and that I can “take it” as such, so I’m really sad to hear my DP voice that he’s concerned she will also be critical of him.

This is where things look very different from within a family versus being someone who's an in law. You're thinking that your mum has licence to criticise you because she's your mum and you've grown up with it. She's allowed to be hard on you because she's family. Whereas he's probably thinking 'blimey, if she finds fault with LittleRa, her own daughter, how much worse will she be with me?' and not seeing it as you would. You've both normalised it and also you see it as something she would only do with family, as a kind of indulgence. He doesn't. Is she like it with your dad?

I agree with this actually - you say you just 'take it' when your mum can be a bit nippy with you - but is it not possible that your dp sees this and doesn't like the way she can be with you ? I know my DH wouldn't be happy if someone , no matter who, was getting away with sarky comments to me on the grounds of its just the way she is .
MiddlesexGirl · 17/02/2021 00:19

I'd side with your DP on this one to be honest.
If your DM usually comes over to look after DD then any baby introductions can be done in this time.
But it's your DP who should be bringing you clean tops and maternity pads, not your mum.

Mittens030869 · 17/02/2021 01:23

Tbh, your relationship with your DM is similar to mine. Like your DM, my DM can be critical and overbearing. Her way of supporting us is to try and solve our problems for us, which isn't something we've ever asked for.

Any time we have her here, she constantly tries to be in charge. I do believe that she means well, but she literally struggles to relate to me in any other way.

It's rather galling in my case, as she failed to protect my DSis and me from being sexually abused by my F. (She didn't know about it.)

I've had to learn to be assertive and say 'no' when she oversteps the mark. A great line I learned from Mumsnet is 'no is a full sentence'. I never like it when she jumps in to help us when she's visiting, apart from spending time with my DDs (now 11 and 8). I'd feel mortified if she tried to help out around the house.

She also butts in when we're in the middle of telling our DDs off. Again, I've learned to nip it in the bud when she does it.

My DH finds her to be hard work, but he has learned to just nod if she suggests something and then completely ignore it.

I didn't realise how overbearing she was until my DH and I adopted our DDs. It's something you should think carefully about. You and your DH are the parents and it's your DP'd house as well as yours.

You need to establish some boundaries with your DM. It will improve your DP's relationship with her, as he won't feel undermined in his own home.

SionnachGlic · 17/02/2021 02:20

Your Mum might be helpful but taking your laundry home with her to wash seems way over involved to me. I'm sure she loves her time with your DD but should she be doing your housework during her retirement years....presumably she has her own housework to do as well.

As for your DP, you really do need to respect his wishes...he wants this precious time with his newborn, it is only 2 weeks paternity leave...so what if a few loads of washing are delayed or the house is not gleaming. As for needing pads or feeliing crap...tell your DP. It is a new baby, yes there will be extra involved but I imagine you & DP can handle it for a fortnight.

It reads to me like alot of excuses lined up as to why DM should be put ahead of DP & his reasonable request ignored so as to maintain the cleaning schedule. I'm not trying to be harsh but that is how it seems to me.

As for your DM having little filter & commenting on this, that & the other, it clearly makes your DP uncomfortable...let him get his bearings with his new baby in his own home (as he has asked) without being made feel inadequate by commentary from your DM. A quick visit is fine to see baby & DD...no more for the first fortnight.

AnnLouiseB · 17/02/2021 04:19

I think that immediately post partum it’s totally up to you what you want, and he just needs to accept it. You’re putting yourself to the risk of childbirth and going through all that pain and possible injury. It’s not a lot to ask him to tolerate a few thoughtless comments from your otherwise helpful and supportive mother in return.

gutful · 17/02/2021 04:33

@AnnLouiseB So do you think mothers are more important than fathers ?

Remaker · 17/02/2021 04:46

My mother is nowhere near as overbearing as yours sounds (would never criticise DP for instance) however before we had our first child DP expressed concern that if DM came to stay she and I would take care of the baby and he would be pushed out. He’d never even held a baby before we had one and he knew that he would feel awkward and slightly out of his depth. He wanted to work through all of that with just us.

So I had to have a hard conversation with my mother who had assumed that she would stay with us and help when we brought the baby home. She was upset and disappointed however she recognised that I was prioritising my relationship with DP and supported that. We settled on a compromise where she visited us in the hospital a couple of times to meet the baby, then went home and came back again after DP had finished his 2 weeks paternity leave.

It was one of the best decisions I ever made. DP became such a hands on father and when the baby is up for the umpteenth time in the night you need a committed partner who trusts his ability to parent, not a mother who does your housework for you.

And DO NOT wait and see how it goes (which nobody but you was suggesting by the way) That will end with your mother elbowing in and your partner feeling too guilty to object when you’ve just given birth and are telling him how helpful she is being. You need to sort it out before the baby comes. Trust me, it will be worth it in the long run.

HappyHedgehog247 · 17/02/2021 05:38

Please support your DP on this. It’s two weeks. You’ve get the rest of your life to have your mum constantly over if that is what the two of you want.

AndThenTheDayBecomesTheNight · 17/02/2021 06:11

I do think quite a lot of posters are reading this as a conflict od 'who gets priority' - the mother or the dp - whereas I'd be looking more closely at where you, OP, are in all this. Like a PP, I also feel a bit sorry for your mother - which doesn't mean at all that your dp is being unreasonable, necessarily (we don't get to know much about him or what he's really like), but that this is the inevitable consequence of allowing yourself to be helped and looked after to the extent you do - that you can't then dismiss her when it comes to the 'nice stuff' It does make me wonder a litrle where you'll be in the future, when your mother can't help out so much and perhaps is wanting a similar level of help and care from you, while you juggle a full-on job and two children. I also notice a bit your emphasis on it being your dp's first child and your plans to disappear into a bit of a bubble of three with him and the baby (at least this is how it comes across when you talk of your mother maybe being around for childcare so you two can 'focus on the baby') - I do hope you're noted from my earlier post that your older child is going to need a lot of closeness and reassurance.

I'd be using this watershed as a gentle reset for you all.

theleafandnotthetree · 17/02/2021 11:04

@AnnLouiseB

I think that immediately post partum it’s totally up to you what you want, and he just needs to accept it. You’re putting yourself to the risk of childbirth and going through all that pain and possible injury. It’s not a lot to ask him to tolerate a few thoughtless comments from your otherwise helpful and supportive mother in return.
Jesus the woman isn't going over the top at the Somme, it's having a baby in a safe Western country and then getting to come home to her own home and a supportive partner. I cannot for the life of me see where the 'need' for her mother - a third adult! - to be around in the first few weeks beyond maybe coming a few times to coo at the baby and if she feels like it, bringing a lasagne or a pot of curry.
theleafandnotthetree · 17/02/2021 11:11

@Remaker

My mother is nowhere near as overbearing as yours sounds (would never criticise DP for instance) however before we had our first child DP expressed concern that if DM came to stay she and I would take care of the baby and he would be pushed out. He’d never even held a baby before we had one and he knew that he would feel awkward and slightly out of his depth. He wanted to work through all of that with just us.

So I had to have a hard conversation with my mother who had assumed that she would stay with us and help when we brought the baby home. She was upset and disappointed however she recognised that I was prioritising my relationship with DP and supported that. We settled on a compromise where she visited us in the hospital a couple of times to meet the baby, then went home and came back again after DP had finished his 2 weeks paternity leave.

It was one of the best decisions I ever made. DP became such a hands on father and when the baby is up for the umpteenth time in the night you need a committed partner who trusts his ability to parent, not a mother who does your housework for you.

And DO NOT wait and see how it goes (which nobody but you was suggesting by the way) That will end with your mother elbowing in and your partner feeling too guilty to object when you’ve just given birth and are telling him how helpful she is being. You need to sort it out before the baby comes. Trust me, it will be worth it in the long run.

I think this is excellent advice, it is categorically not just about the first few weeks. It's about establishing the right dynamics and patterns so that both parents get to ahead feeling confident that they know what they are doing without another more experienced adult (i.e the OPs mother) being there giving possibly unasked for advice and the kind of comments which can undermine the partner's confidence. Getting used to handling and caring for a baby is a road you build as you walk and the OP's partner needs - and is actively looking for the opportunity - to do that in a way that works for him. You will all benefit from that much more long term than you will by having your mother over to do the housework.
CookPassBabtridge · 17/02/2021 11:30

One thing I loved about having both my babies.. was that me and DP stayed in our own little world/nest with no-one else, it was perfect. No way would I want my MIL pottering around and it wouldn't be fair on him either. This is the time for the two of you to be a team, it will bond you. It's such a huge emotional thing becoming a parent and he should be as comfortable as possible.

GabsAlot · 17/02/2021 12:38

I stayed with my dsis and dp for a weeks when my niece was born with their blessings of course
i didnt do any washing though just helped on a less personal level

if your dp is already saying he doesnt want your mum there then i would just accept that -she can be more helpful after hes gone back to work