Feeling a bit caught between DP and my DMum- new baby on the way

[LittleRa]

I’m 37 weeks pregnant with my second baby, however it is my DP’s first (my nearly 7yo DD is from a previous relationship).
Obviously we’re all very excited

Last night DP and I got talking about birth choices and preferences etc, and the conversation also led on to preferences for after the birth, with a newborn baby.

Now, my DMum can be a little bit.... overbearing. We have had some tense moments over the years, but nothing major, no big fall outs, more just frustrations. I think she is kind of a snob and sometimes says things without thinking, she also has ridiculously high standards that she holds me and my sister to. However, I know that this is because she wants the best for us. I think she sometimes forgets we’re grown ups now She also does absolutely loads for me and for DD- she picks my DD up from school two days a week and while she’s at my house she does laundry, cleans the bathroom etc. She’s bought loads of things for the new baby (probably unnecessarily so...) and has washed all the new baby clothes. She sends my DD little presents in the post (during lockdown). She’s very generous and kind.

However, I completely understand this feeling that she gives my DP, that he voiced last night, that she is judgemental or that things one does aren’t good enough for her. Obviously she makes me feel like that- she’s my Mum!! But I’m sad to hear she makes him feel like that too. I’ve told him she doesn’t mean it and it’s just her way, she probably goes home and kicks herself about things she’s said.

An example is that when she was at my house looking after DD, a slightly batty neighbour caught her in the street and said “You have to tell your son in law not to park his car there, as it makes it tricky for me to get my bins through on bin day”. When my DP got home from work, DM passed this “message” on from neighbour, saying things like “it’s important to get along with your neighbours” and suggesting alternative places to park along the street. This got his back up a bit as he didn’t want to be dictated to about where to park, by either the neighbour or DM. Later that night DM texted saying she was sorry she’d got involved, she shouldn’t have said anything etc.

Now, DP is very laid back, and is extremely supportive of me. He’s happy to support my choices in birth, parenting, with the baby etc. However, what was coming out of the conversation last night was that his preference would be to not have DM round on the first few days, maybe first week after the baby is born. I had assumed we would form an under 1s bubble (we already have a childcare bubble for DD but this allows her to look after DD, not to be in the house with me socialising). She’s my DM and I feel like after the birth she will be able to be such a big help- like I said, she does several loads of laundry each time she’s here, changes my DD’s bed sheets, does dishes, she’ll cook if we’re going to be late home from work. Also because she’s my Mum, I’ll feel she can support with more intimate care like if I’m getting breastfeeding established, if I’ve got stitches and am bleeding etc.

DP says he really does appreciate all the things she does for us, but as a first time parent to a newborn (DD was 3 when we met) he wants time to be able to establish confidence without feeling like he’s being judged for “doing it wrong” or that any unthinking comments will be made that make him feel inadequate or awkward. He feels that after the first little bit once we’re a bit more established in our roles as new parents to a newborn would be the time to introduce other people to the situation.

We’ve been doing NCT and some of the other couples have spoken about how Covid restrictions and lockdown have meant that they’ve decided to say no visitors at all (eg if they both have sets of divorced parents to choose from, easier to just say no one). I definitely feel that having the restrictions as an excuse to not have streams of visitors coming in and out (which I do remember having when DD was newborn) is a good thing! But I feel just DM is different. But I do understand what DP is saying and would like to be in our own little world for a while too!

I have said to him that if DM doesn’t come to help, then I will need him to step up with the household jobs that she does. Which he’s said he of course would.

Just some other info-
-DM was also her same overbearing self when DD was born but she was still working full time then whereas she has since retired so has a lot more time to dedicate to family. She lives about 45 mins away, so not on the doorstep.
-DP will have 2 weeks paternity leave, and then be back to work, so I suppose that will be the time I really need DM to come during the day and help.

I’m not sure whether I should say to DP- suck it up, I need my DM to help too and if she makes any comments just let them go over your head, she means well and I trust you and know you will be an amazing dad. Or say to DM- when we come out of hospital we want a few days/week where you don’t come round while we find our feet. I know she would be sad about that. Also, she will be looking after DD when we’re in hospital.
Am I overthinking, shall I play it by ear and see how it goes a bit more, or do I need to manage expectations beforehand. I was wondering about saying something to DM like DP is feeling nervous about becoming a new Dad and so to be mindful of being positive and supportive etc and that we’ll need time. I have actually joked to DP to give it a few days and he’ll be ringing her up begging her to come and help out

Op, I think you sound lovely and your mum sounds lovely. You are just trying to take into account everyone's feelings and there's nothing wrong with that.

I don't think she'll mind you saying "Can you give us a bit of space?" She'll understand.

If you appreciate all the 'help' that your mum is providing be careful not to 'bite the hand that feeds you' and hurt her feelings too much.

I do very similar for my daughter - she's just returning to work from maternity leave.

Due to COVID restrictions we weren't allowed to visit when her daughter came home after 5 wks in NICU because of the first lockdown. She had PND because of the lack of help they had initially. Her GP rang me and gave me permission to go and help when they had been home for two weeks. My daughter simply wanted her mother after going through a traumatic pregnancy and birth. Me being there allowed my daughter and her partner to have a break and when baby was with them I changed the bed, general laundry, cleaned and cooked around them. Her partner would ring me in the middle of the night when my daughter needed me - she developed PTSD as a result of having a poorly baby who required surgery immediately after birth.

I now have her daughter (11 months) when she's at work and I clean, cook and do shopping and laundry for them while they work. They both very much appreciate what I do as I get flowers and thank you cards regularly. Same as you, I'm 45 min away while her partner's parents are five min away. She simply prefers me to help - that's not going to change. It's just a mother/daughter relationship. I'm not needed to help my son's partner as her mum does the same for her as I do for my daughter.

I love helping - I didn't get any help with my three children and remember feeling stressed all time trying to fit everything in on a weekend ready to go back to work on a Monday. (Teaching). I hated the fact that my husband played golf and spent lots of time with his friends while I cleaned, ironed, cooked and then planned my next week's lessons.

I know they are planning another child and I will be there as long as they want help. I also know that one day they won't need help. I have work and hobbies to fill the gaps (I work from home during the evenings - distance learning tutor). Eventually we will just have social visits where we can catch up and enjoy each other's company. Neither of us demand anything of each other. I respect my children's choice of partners (they are all fabulous) and there's no bad feelings/jealousies anywhere.

I wouldn't be offended if my daughter told me her plans for immediately after the birth of her child and they didn't include me. I'd be proud of her for considering others' feelings. I'm more than happy to help when and where required and I'm sure that your mum is too.

And its true that those of us who just got on with it, will find it hard to comprehend parents still mowing a 35 year old lawn or washing a 28 year old son in laws underpants. The thoughts of either my mother or my mother in law stripping my sheets and seeing the dried stain of the wet patch makes me want to curl into a little ball, tbh.

But people who are used to a lot of parental input may find this not that big a deal???

Yes, I had literally never come across this level of input from parents into their adult children's lives until we moved to a house on the edge of a village with one house across the lane. We were very aware from the start of how many cars were always coming and going in the daytime, and gradually realised that the three living parents of the married couple (fortysomething with three teenage children) were around the house most days when the couple were at work and the children at school. So you would see them cutting the grass, pruning shrubs, burning waste, cleaning gutters, cleaning windows, bustling in and out with laundry for the line, ironing, being there to accept grocery or furniture deliveries etc etc. I can only assume they were also cleaning and cooking and changing beds, given the amount of time they spent there.

It kind of blew our minds. The mother of the woman once told me that her son in law was 'very particular about the ironing'.

I think be honest with her- tell her you've made a decision as a couple and would like a few days by yourselves, and then will love opening things up.

I would back my husband on this one because in my husband's case he only really asked for anything if it was very important to him and was usually flexible and grateful for any help, so if he said it was too much, it usually was.

My mum is lovely though and would never want to feel like she was intruding- I'd still do a 'visit the baby' after a couple of days, and of course if she wants to drop off some food, lovely, but I do agree your husband/partner needs time, probably more than a few days, to just sit and be with the baby himself and work it all out.

There isn't so much cleaning and laundry in three days that two adults can't do it!

Over time, it may be things settle down again, and ultimately it's probably pretty useful for your partner to have a granny happy to do childcare, so make sure you all benefit from that (e.g. going out for dinner) if the opportunity arises.

Be honest with your mum, and let her let you work it out for yourselves. If she's too busy then to help out a week later, fine too, if there's two parents at home.

As well as some extra jobs that help me like clean round the bathroom and a couple of loads of everyone’s laundry

But OP can you not see that this is not normal, it's normal to you but not to the majority and is only coming to light because of your DPs thoughts. Most would see this as an invasion of privacy.

Sorry yes seven years!

Op I would make this work for me. I would have a lovely first visit with my mother and tea, ask her to look after dd at her house so you and dp can have some quality time with your newborn during the first few weeks.

Once dp was back at work I would invite my mother to come to my house whilst he is working to help out and spend time with us. Why wouldn't you? We are in a lockdown and you may feel quite isolated. Having your mother around, and extra set of hands will be good for all of you in the long run.

You describe your DP as laid back. I think there's a fine line between laid back and resigned.

Just want to say, I think you need to respect your DP's wishes more. Your mum sounds overly involved in your life which is fine unless it causes problems, and in this case it is.

When my DS2 was born, my mum flew in (I moved to a different country) a week after he was born to help. TBH, that week when it was just us, the baby and a toddler, ended up more peaceful than the two weeks she stayed. In this country, dads only get 2 days paternity leave, so DH couldn't help much, but my mum still made regular 'well meaning' digs at him. 'Aren't you going to change a nappy? Did you do any night feeds?'

As diplomatic as my DH is, it caused a lot of stress for him to feel that he was being judged and disparaged in his own home. I love my mum but I was relieved when she left.

It's not okay for you mum to not respect the boundaries your DP has set out, which sound perfectly reasonable to me.

"My parents do things to help her too (eg Dad cut the grass) but probably not as much as for me, as what they do for me is really for my DD- collecting her from school, making her tea, listening to her read her reading book, changing her bedding. As well as some extra jobs that help me like clean round the bathroom and a couple of loads of everyone’s laundry".

They are parents, to YOU not your child. You are this child's mother and your mother's role here should be secondary anyway. I would also look into alternative childcare during the week. She is changing your DDs bedding in your home; why is she doing that?. Boundaries here are so very blurred and its impacting on you badly as an individual and in your relationship with your partner who has every right to speak as he has done. He is the third wheel in this relationship here.

Your parents have had their turn and they did not really do a great job of parenting either your sister and you. Does it really help you re cleaning your bathroom and everyone's laundry?. On the surface it looks ok but it really is not. She is showing you that she feels that you as adults within your home are incapable of doing it "properly" and not to her own set of exacting standards. You're being used by her also as a companion (your dad not being up to that task in her eyes) and to validate her own existence.

Ok, there’s been a lot of comments about what my mum does for us generally. I mentioned it in the OP to show that although she can be critical and overbearing, she does help too, she isn’t just hanging around being critical- she’s doing practical helpful tasks too. I didn’t realise it was so unusual, but I see now that it is. I still appreciate the help she gives- yes it is not needed and not necessary, and I see that lots of people don’t get that help, but it is nice to come home from work to a clean pile of washing and empty washing basket, to not have to be racing to pick DD up from an after school club and bung something in the oven for her tea, to know she’s had a home cooked meal and time chilling at home with Grandma, and I don’t think it’s “feeble” to appreciate that.

However, that aside, the focus of my post was not what DM does for us on an on-going basis, but how to handle the first few days/weeks after the baby is born. The fact that she helps usually is a factor- because as some posters have said it seems very harsh and cruel to accept help and then turn her away from the “nice” stuff I.e baby cuddles. However, the fact that my DP brought up his feelings got me thinking about it, and I posted this thread to gain views, which I certainly have done.
I am not desperate to have my Mum around after the birth, it’s not a hill I’m going to die on. I just think it would be helpful and the more hands on deck the better- helping out entertaining my DD, making food, keeping on top of housework, so that DP and I can focus on the baby. I know it’s not essential, just would be nice and helpful, however obviously there’s a negative side of it and it’s to the detriment of my relationship with DP or his relationship with the baby then that is not what I want at all.
I will speak to DM and set out the expectations for the first little while. I’m sure there will be plenty she can be doing to help during the day once DP is back at work after paternity leave.

Have you ever discussed with your dp how much you have your mum round or the help she gives? How does he feel about it?

@AttilaTheMeerkat

"My parents do things to help her too (eg Dad cut the grass) but probably not as much as for me, as what they do for me is really for my DD- collecting her from school, making her tea, listening to her read her reading book, changing her bedding. As well as some extra jobs that help me like clean round the bathroom and a couple of loads of everyone’s laundry".

They are parents, to YOU not your child. You are this child's mother and your mother's role here should be secondary anyway. I would also look into alternative childcare during the week. She is changing your DDs bedding in your home; why is she doing that?. Boundaries here are so very blurred and its impacting on you badly as an individual and in your relationship with your partner who has every right to speak as he has done. He is the third wheel in this relationship here.

Your parents have had their turn and they did not really do a great job of parenting either your sister and you. Does it really help you re cleaning your bathroom and everyone's laundry?. On the surface it looks ok but it really is not. She is showing you that she feels that you as adults within your home are incapable of doing it "properly" and not to her own set of exacting standards. You're being used by her also as a companion (your dad not being up to that task in her eyes) and to validate her own existence.

I think it’s a bit harsh to say that my parents did not do a good job of parenting my sister and me

Two things jump out at me, OP.

The first is that - as others have noted - that's a lot of help your mother gives you. She's practically your PT nanny/housekeeper. And I do think that, like it or not, that's going to make it rather morally difficult for you to say toodle-pip to her for the duration of your dp's paternity leave. I do think this is a sort of 'payback' moment - that no-strings help does come with strings, even if your mother hasn't deliberately engineered it that way. And I also think this is a peril with having such a relatively infantilising relationship with your mother (I know she does it happily and you don't ask, etc etc, but it does leave your life a little short of full adulting, tbh).

The second is that your posts are full of how lovely your mother is and how lovely your dp is and how nobody means anything badly to anyone else. You seem to set great store by harmony all round and downplay the issues which might be brewing here (and which it's quite difficult for us to see through the perfumed mist of 'everything's wonderful and everyone's lovely in all respects'). My experience, however, is that issues are better dealt with before they get out of hand. I think you need to talk to your dp (first) and your mother about both the immediate post-birth period and a way forward after that.

I would respect my partner's wishes. There is nothing wrong with him wanting to bond with baby without someone he perceives as judgemental peering over his shoulder. You can both manage whilst he's on paternity leave and you may well look back and treasure the memories of just the 4 of you in that couple of weeks. Actually, if I remember rightly, it's when he goes back to work that help will be more appreciated. I remember being post C-section so unable to drive and having to walk 2 miles there and back twice a day on school run once husband went back to work as well as juggling breast feeding. That bit is not easy and you would love your mum's help then! I think also, reverse it. Would you want mother in law hovering over you after baby is born? I had no one over to mine for the first couple of weeks other than quick admiring visits. I can guarantee you will both appreciate your mum after this. And she should understand this.

You're DM has the impression you need help. You accept that help and so she sees that as proof you need help. By bringing a newborn into the mix, she will think you'll need more help. You're also presuming you'll need more help. It's going round in circles.

I think you should view this in reverse if you had an overbearing MIL. The last thing you'd want would be her in your face straight after a new baby, Covid aside.

I think you should 100% prioritise your family now, and that is your husband and baby.

Your husband was honest with you. You are also realistic about how challenging your mum can be. I think when it comes to in laws we have to accept that if we find our relatives difficult at times, then for our partners that is double, as they're not even blood relations! He deserves to be prioritised in this situation, and be given the chance to be a first time dad for a couple of weeks finding his own way.

Good luck.

Oh, and tbh - particularly as your dp isn't your dd's father - your dd is going to need to be close to you immediately after the birth, not with grandma (however much she loves her) while you and dp 'focus on' the baby. It'll e imperative to draw her close from the beginning to ensure she doesn't feel left out or 'replaced'. You're going to have to juggle both from the off.

@LittleRa Could you talk to DP and see if he approves of you just being honest with DM about his worries and the way she can be?
Sorry if this has been said, I haven't had time to read everything x

I think posters are being too harsh on the OP. She obviously cares about her DP's feelings or she wouldn't be on here asking!
Clearly her mum has been a big support to her, even if she is tactless sometimes. It's not a big deal that she puts on a wash or starts dinner when she's there - that's a nice, motherly thing to do and the OP appreciates the help.
Tbh I don't see what she did wrong in repeating what the neighbour said about the parking - she was passing on a message. The fault was with the neighbour in talking to mil and not the person he had issue with!
I also believe that when a woman had just given birth, she ought to have the person she needs to help her. That's not to say I don't see the DP's point - I'm sure it is better for him when mil isn't there, being more blunt than he would like.
Telling her to stay away for 2 weeks is too much imo - I think I'd ask for a week to settle and for DP to feel comfortable looking after the baby (after the first visit. I wouldn't stop her from meeting the baby initially).
I also believe that DP can only reasonably object to mil doing things in your home if he truly is going to step up and do those things himself. If he quite enjoys coming home to a clean bathroom and dinner in the oven, then I'd be less sympathetic to him not wanting mil around too much. You have to take the rough with the smooth.
I also have a mum who has no filter between her brain and her mouth - what's important to me is her intentions. Your mum sounds like she's just trying to be a protective mother.
One day your DP might feel about his adult child, the way your mum feels about you. It's hard to step back if you perceive your child has been in need of extra support.

Sometimes I have my DGC at my house and sometimes I go to their house.

Depending on which of my DC it is, I generally wash up and tidy kitchen if necessary. I will hang/dry washing. I might tidy toys, I feed the DGC and clear up.

I don't see what the problem is with what the OP's DM does at all, especially as she's doing childcare

I don't see why she can't quickly meet the baby (rude to grab older DC and shut the door) and then keep away for a couple of weeks.

On the face of it it seems good that you have lots of support for this exciting new arrival in your family. However, you really should listen to what your partner wants here. He has recognized that your DM is overstepping the line. Her needs are not important here, you must be clear with her. Do NOT 'see how it goes'! Step up and draw some appropriate boundaries with her as soon as possible. Then your partner will feel you have his back and you trust him to take charge and show how responsible and caring he can be.

Let go of the need to please her.

I imagine she has her own key to your house? Would she just come round?

"I think it’s a bit harsh to say that my parents did not do a good job of parenting my sister and me"

Well they did not do a good job here with the end result being that you are enmeshed with your mother. Oh they may have "tried their best" but their best was not good enough. You yourself describe your mother as critical and overbearing which she indeed is. Emotionally healthy people do not behave like that towards their children. This enmeshment dynamic your mother has foistered on you is extremely unhealthy. She's made you believe this from her is normal but it is not.

@ScabbyHorse

I imagine she has her own key to your house? Would she just come round?

She does have a key, yes, because she collects my daughter from school while I am at work. I don’t believe she would let herself in while we are at home without pre-arrangement. She would maybe let herself in while we are at the hospital to, for e.g. leave food in the fridge or make sure things were ready for us coming home. I believe she left a balloon and banner in my house when I came home from the hospital with DD.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

"I think it’s a bit harsh to say that my parents did not do a good job of parenting my sister and me"

Well they did not do a good job here with the end result being that you are enmeshed with your mother. Oh they may have "tried their best" but their best was not good enough. You yourself describe your mother as critical and overbearing which she indeed is. Emotionally healthy people do not behave like that towards their children. This enmeshment dynamic your mother has foistered on you is extremely unhealthy. She's made you believe this from her is normal but it is not.

Thank you for your comments so far @AttilaTheMeerkat but your comments are becoming too personal and too harsh. Thank you for your time and opinions but please just leave it now.

I apologise if you think I have been too harsh but I have seen parental enmeshment at first hand and it does damage the lives of those around the enmeshed person too. That is why I have written as I have.

If nothing else I have made you think. What you have described throughout is not healthy at all in any sense of the word.