Feeling a bit caught between DP and my DMum- new baby on the way

[LittleRa]

I’m 37 weeks pregnant with my second baby, however it is my DP’s first (my nearly 7yo DD is from a previous relationship).
Obviously we’re all very excited

Last night DP and I got talking about birth choices and preferences etc, and the conversation also led on to preferences for after the birth, with a newborn baby.

Now, my DMum can be a little bit.... overbearing. We have had some tense moments over the years, but nothing major, no big fall outs, more just frustrations. I think she is kind of a snob and sometimes says things without thinking, she also has ridiculously high standards that she holds me and my sister to. However, I know that this is because she wants the best for us. I think she sometimes forgets we’re grown ups now She also does absolutely loads for me and for DD- she picks my DD up from school two days a week and while she’s at my house she does laundry, cleans the bathroom etc. She’s bought loads of things for the new baby (probably unnecessarily so...) and has washed all the new baby clothes. She sends my DD little presents in the post (during lockdown). She’s very generous and kind.

However, I completely understand this feeling that she gives my DP, that he voiced last night, that she is judgemental or that things one does aren’t good enough for her. Obviously she makes me feel like that- she’s my Mum!! But I’m sad to hear she makes him feel like that too. I’ve told him she doesn’t mean it and it’s just her way, she probably goes home and kicks herself about things she’s said.

An example is that when she was at my house looking after DD, a slightly batty neighbour caught her in the street and said “You have to tell your son in law not to park his car there, as it makes it tricky for me to get my bins through on bin day”. When my DP got home from work, DM passed this “message” on from neighbour, saying things like “it’s important to get along with your neighbours” and suggesting alternative places to park along the street. This got his back up a bit as he didn’t want to be dictated to about where to park, by either the neighbour or DM. Later that night DM texted saying she was sorry she’d got involved, she shouldn’t have said anything etc.

Now, DP is very laid back, and is extremely supportive of me. He’s happy to support my choices in birth, parenting, with the baby etc. However, what was coming out of the conversation last night was that his preference would be to not have DM round on the first few days, maybe first week after the baby is born. I had assumed we would form an under 1s bubble (we already have a childcare bubble for DD but this allows her to look after DD, not to be in the house with me socialising). She’s my DM and I feel like after the birth she will be able to be such a big help- like I said, she does several loads of laundry each time she’s here, changes my DD’s bed sheets, does dishes, she’ll cook if we’re going to be late home from work. Also because she’s my Mum, I’ll feel she can support with more intimate care like if I’m getting breastfeeding established, if I’ve got stitches and am bleeding etc.

DP says he really does appreciate all the things she does for us, but as a first time parent to a newborn (DD was 3 when we met) he wants time to be able to establish confidence without feeling like he’s being judged for “doing it wrong” or that any unthinking comments will be made that make him feel inadequate or awkward. He feels that after the first little bit once we’re a bit more established in our roles as new parents to a newborn would be the time to introduce other people to the situation.

We’ve been doing NCT and some of the other couples have spoken about how Covid restrictions and lockdown have meant that they’ve decided to say no visitors at all (eg if they both have sets of divorced parents to choose from, easier to just say no one). I definitely feel that having the restrictions as an excuse to not have streams of visitors coming in and out (which I do remember having when DD was newborn) is a good thing! But I feel just DM is different. But I do understand what DP is saying and would like to be in our own little world for a while too!

I have said to him that if DM doesn’t come to help, then I will need him to step up with the household jobs that she does. Which he’s said he of course would.

Just some other info-
-DM was also her same overbearing self when DD was born but she was still working full time then whereas she has since retired so has a lot more time to dedicate to family. She lives about 45 mins away, so not on the doorstep.
-DP will have 2 weeks paternity leave, and then be back to work, so I suppose that will be the time I really need DM to come during the day and help.

I’m not sure whether I should say to DP- suck it up, I need my DM to help too and if she makes any comments just let them go over your head, she means well and I trust you and know you will be an amazing dad. Or say to DM- when we come out of hospital we want a few days/week where you don’t come round while we find our feet. I know she would be sad about that. Also, she will be looking after DD when we’re in hospital.
Am I overthinking, shall I play it by ear and see how it goes a bit more, or do I need to manage expectations beforehand. I was wondering about saying something to DM like DP is feeling nervous about becoming a new Dad and so to be mindful of being positive and supportive etc and that we’ll need time. I have actually joked to DP to give it a few days and he’ll be ringing her up begging her to come and help out

You want her to feel involved but already dictating how long the visit lasts while your mum, Dobby the house elf, bustles about in the background. Maybe his mother doesn't visit as she feels pushed out by your overbearing mother hanging out all the time.

She is honestly only here twice a week, from around 2pm to 5/5.30pm.

But I think that it would also benefit him to have an extra pair of practical hands on the scene to give us less to worry/stress about.

Seriously?! You sound just like your mum! Your DP had told you what he wants, but you have decided you know better about what he needs.

Yes, your mum should not be around twice weekly while DP is on paternity leave, and yes, she needs to stop interfering.

But she cooks, cleans, does washing, childcare and has your DD’s friends over for tea and you’re DP is proposing she can’t see her new grandchild for 2 weeks? That’s taking the piss. How unkind.

She can easily come over for an hour to coo over the baby and he can nip out to the shops or other (excuse) valid reason not to be around - not banning from his own home or owt, he could be making a meal or playing with DD or whatever mitigates having your mum around for him.

I entirely agree you should prioritise your DP over your mum but you can’t use her as twice a week unpaid skivvy and tell her to piss off when she most wants a visit. One hour out of DP’s fortnight isn’t unreasonable.

You want her to feel involved but already dictating how long the visit lasts while your mum, Dobby the house elf, bustles about in the background. Maybe his mother doesn't visit as she feels pushed out by your overbearing mother hanging out all the time.*

I’m not dictating how long his mum could visit, she can stay all day if she likes as far as I’m concerned, it is him who will not let her come- I said half an hour as compromise so she at least gets to meet the baby but he is not willing to take the Covid risk and bend the rules and therefore will not allow his DM to meet the baby until Covid restrictions allow, which I don’t agree with, I want her to meet the baby.

I don't know why you feel you need to use your mother like an unpaid maid/cleaner. It is because you are relying on her far far too much that it's now difficult to say back off. Depends how often she comes. If it's only once or twice a week your DH needs yo suck it up. If it's every day you've got a big problem.

As someone likely near to your Mum's age, it's a problem if we haven't learnt boundaries with our adult children. You're adults - we love you as much but you are no longer solely our children. I know it's instinctive to want to continue to protect and manage as a parent - but we have to learn to take a step back and keep silent - and at times step away.
It's great that your Mum helps out so much and has a good relationship with your daughter - but she's overstepping repeatedly and your OH has told you this clearly.
It's fine to tell your Mum to step away during those first weeks and to tell her why. She won't change if you're not open with her.

As a soon to be mother of 2, when will you take responsibility for yourself and your family? You say your DM is overbearing, which you seem to accept with a shrug, not really questioning it until your DP agreed that he felt judged by her too. You are accepting her help, because it suits you, she's giving you help because it suits her. Your relationship sounds too enmeshed and I don't think that's a healthy way to live.

@Viviennemary

I don't know why you feel you need to use your mother like an unpaid maid/cleaner. It is because you are relying on her far far too much that it's now difficult to say back off. Depends how often she comes. If it's only once or twice a week your DH needs yo suck it up. If it's every day you've got a big problem.

I’ve already said that she’s here twice a week from 2pm to 5.00/5.30pm, and the primary reason for her being here is to collect/mind my DD which is beneficial for everyone involved- DD loves her grandma and DM loves having that time with her granddaughter. There is no expectation that she do housework in that time, but she is fit, able and likes helping and personally I appreciate it. I understand some people feel she’s overstepping the mark though, and that there’s no reason she NEEDS to help.

Sorry OP - I cross posted with your last post. Honestly, if she's self reflective - and you said she realised her error over the car parking - she'll understand this. And maybe take a bit of time to consider to what extent you want her doing your washing etc.It's lovely that she's involved and some clear boundaries should help going forward. Good luck - and enjoy your lovely new baby.

I am another one very confused by how much your mum is involved in your life and if I was your DP I would find it uncomfortable and would also feel fairly judged if my MIL ws coming in to look after my step child and doing the majority of the cleaning.

Maybe he is hoping, 2 weeks just the 4 of you might make a bit of a difference.
I am wondering if he has tried to raise this with you and you have shut him down like you are doing to the posters here.

@persistentwoman

Sorry OP - I cross posted with your last post. Honestly, if she's self reflective - and you said she realised her error over the car parking - she'll understand this. And maybe take a bit of time to consider to what extent you want her doing your washing etc.It's lovely that she's involved and some clear boundaries should help going forward. Good luck - and enjoy your lovely new baby.

Thank you I will talk to her. Hopefully she will understand. If not then I’ll have to bloody well cut the apron strings and take responsibility for my own life and start doing my own washing

Your DH is a long way down the pecking order. What you want and what your mum wants seems to outweigh anything he wants. If you love him and want to stay with him, you need to listen to him when he says what he wants. And then discuss it together. You sound like you think this is your decision, not one which should be made jointly.

I had absolutely no help (pre Covid) with my first and second. I worked ft but in maternity. Dh had one week holiday from work. No help with housework, picking older one up, cleaning the bathroom!!! Chance would be a fine thing! I think you’re being unreasonable. Your mum can come round after a week. I’m sure she wouldn’t have like her MIL floating around when her kids were born pointing out all the ways things weren’t being done the way she liked them done. Ease up. Have some alone time as a small family before bringing mum into the mix. Your poor dh!

Wait and see is a dreadful idea because if she is pushy, you are unlikely to be in the right place to push back; you will be emotional and exhausted.
The best and kindest thing all round is to talk to her about coming round to help after DH goes back after paternity and when she says, “Oh I’ll be helping out before that!” Say no, you hope she’ll stay for newborn snuggles when she bring DD back, but that otherwise you want to keep it just the four of you the first two week.
Do not throw DH under the bus with “he’s nervous” “needs to step up to the plate” shit.
If she presses just say it’s very common these days and it’s what you want, poor DH only gets those two weeks and you want to make the most of it.

I’m really glad you posted here as I think you’ve been a bit blind as to the potential harm your mum could do to your relationship. You grew up with it, we all think our family is normal.
So many posters over the years on here post about their in-laws (less often parents) and identify the birth of DC1 as the tipping point from having a good relationship to disliking them and it going tits up. The common factors being an overbearing grandparent and spineless spouse. This being Mumsnet it’s normally from the new mother’s perspective but it doesn’t mean new fathers can’t suffer it too. They are less vulnerable at time it’s true, but I wouldn’t risk the resentment that could result from “playing it by ear” with someone with form. It will rebound on you if you end up piggy in the middle.

If your husband had red flags for controlling behaviour or domestic incompetence it would be different, but it sounds like he just wants to safeguard those early, tender days.

You will spend a lot of time feeding, he has plenty of time to do laundry etc if he isn’t working.

It’s such a precious time!

@DoctorHildegardLanstrom

I am another one very confused by how much your mum is involved in your life and if I was your DP I would find it uncomfortable and would also feel fairly judged if my MIL ws coming in to look after my step child and doing the majority of the cleaning.

Maybe he is hoping, 2 weeks just the 4 of you might make a bit of a difference.
I am wondering if he has tried to raise this with you and you have shut him down like you are doing to the posters here.

I was also confused when he brought it up, because as I have said in the thread they don’t really have much to do with each other. She’s here 2pm to 5.00/5.30pm twice a week, looking after DD and doing some housework jobs (of her own choice). They might see each other once a fortnight or less, as she leaves when I get home from work which is generally before him. So I was surprised when he voiced how he felt last night, and also felt sad because I know she makes me feel like that and I was sad to know she also makes him feel judged and interfered with. So once I heard that from him, that’s why I feel caught in the middle and posted this thread for some views. As I’ve said I will talk to her. Not sure who I’ve shut down?

LittleRa

I would urge you to read a lot more on enmeshment because the relationship you describe between your mother and you is emotionally unhealthy and enmeshed. Do read "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward here to further understand the dynamics.

You think she is helpful by popping in your laundry; actually it is not because she is really seeing you also here as being somehow incapable to do that properly if at all. She has exacting standards and those are a problem.

You have handed over an awful lot of power and control here through being conditioned by her since childhood. She will also do the same to your children, you really do need to keep her far more at arms length going forward. That is not going to be at all easy here given your minimising of this to date (understandable really because this is your "norm"). Boundary setting here has to be done, that process is going to be very hard for you also mainly because your mother has never really encouraged you to have any.

I also wonder what would happen if you started to say no to your mother picking up your child, "helping" you at home etc. You will see more of her true nature and intentions then.

@GirlInterruptedAgain

I had absolutely no help (pre Covid) with my first and second. I worked ft but in maternity. Dh had one week holiday from work. No help with housework, picking older one up, cleaning the bathroom!!! Chance would be a fine thing! I think you’re being unreasonable. Your mum can come round after a week. I’m sure she wouldn’t have like her MIL floating around when her kids were born pointing out all the ways things weren’t being done the way she liked them done. Ease up. Have some alone time as a small family before bringing mum into the mix. Your poor dh!

Just to say again, this isn’t AIBU.

Also to say I know it’s not NEEDED or necessary to have a family member helping with tasks, and many people don’t have that help and just get on with it, but it’s just helpful.

When my Mum had me and my sister, she had no MIL as she’d died and her own DM lived 4000 miles away (my mum is originally American), I didn’t meet my grandparents until I was just over 1yo.

Yeah it's helpful but not at all necessary and, let's be honest, a bit lazy for two grown adults.

I was also confused when he brought it up, because as I have said in the thread they don’t really have much to do with each other. She’s here 2pm to 5.00/5.30pm twice a week, looking after DD and doing some housework jobs (of her own choice). They might see each other once a fortnight or less, as she leaves when I get home from work which is generally before him. So I was surprised when he voiced how he felt last night, and also felt sad because I know she makes me feel like that and I was sad to know she also makes him feel judged and interfered with. So once I heard that from him, that’s why I feel caught in the middle and posted this thread for some views.
As I’ve said I will talk to her.
Not sure who I’ve shut down?

He doesn't have to see her to know she has been there, just the fact she comes into mind your daughter and is suddenly cleaning the bathroom, doing the washing, general cleaning, he might not feel he can leave a book out because it will be tidied away the next day, or if in a rush he has left his pants on the floor and she has washed them, to me its a lack of privacy and the fact I couldn't relax in my own home knowing my MIL, who you have already said can be judgemental is judging me for leaving shit on my floor in my house.

How would you feel if say his mum comes round to mind your new baby (when older) and started cleaning, doing the washing etc, would it then be, its ok she is doing it off her own back,she likes doing it, she does alot for us.

Roughly how many times has he tried to say, can you ask her not to clean, or depending on subtly, I will put the washing on when I get home, or has said I know we are going to be late lets get a take away for you to say, oh mum has done that, its ok mum has cooked.

To be honest I'd missed that you were only talking about the twice a week that your mom normally comes, OP. So I'll take back a little bit of what i said. And yes, the fact that you're advocating for your MIL to see the baby is great, when he's being stubborn in that.

But all the same, yep. I think you're right to back him up with your mum. He might change his mind as things go along, if she's still picking your DD up and dropping her off, but it should be his choice.

You and your mother are never equals.

An attuned and loving mother teaches her child that she is separate but that she can depend on her mother to understand and support her; the existence of boundaries encourages the child to see herself wholly. She’s not required to “fit in” as the child of a narcissistic or controlling parent is; she is free to explore simply being herself.

It’s not just emotional and psychological boundaries that are trespassed but traditional ones, so that the child is burdened with responsibilities far beyond her and ends up “mothering” her mother. The irony here is that these mothers may love their daughters dearly but simply can’t step up to the plate and be the adult, and they damage their children in highly specific ways. These daughters may feel bitter and angry at having been “robbed” of their childhoods, but they are usually also very conflicted because they feel compassion for their mothers.

The classic example of the enmeshed mother is the stage mother who looks to cash in on her child’s talents, looks, and opportunities, but you don’t need to be a star-in-the-making to have an enmeshed mother. These daughters suffer a great deal of emotional confusion because while their mothers do love them, the nature of that love disappears them from view; the emotional connection is intense and suffocating and doesn’t allow for independence of any kind. You are allowed no independence of any kind.

The daughter subjugates her own wants and needs to those of her mother in both conscious and unconscious ways. And that is precisely what you have done, you have indeed handed over an awful lot of your own power and control here in this relationship over the years. Your own sense of self here is very much impaired.

Enmeshed daughters may feel alternating waves of guilt, anger, and compassion for their mothers; sometimes, they are able to salvage parts of the relationship by asserting their independence and setting strict boundaries. Your mother is really not an emotionally safe person to be around.

Where's your dad here; is he in your life now in any way?. I ask only as he is not at all mentioned.

@DoctorHildegardLanstrom

*I was also confused when he brought it up, because as I have said in the thread they don’t really have much to do with each other. She’s here 2pm to 5.00/5.30pm twice a week, looking after DD and doing some housework jobs (of her own choice). They might see each other once a fortnight or less, as she leaves when I get home from work which is generally before him. So I was surprised when he voiced how he felt last night, and also felt sad because I know she makes me feel like that and I was sad to know she also makes him feel judged and interfered with. So once I heard that from him, that’s why I feel caught in the middle and posted this thread for some views. As I’ve said I will talk to her. Not sure who I’ve shut down?*

He doesn't have to see her to know she has been there, just the fact she comes into mind your daughter and is suddenly cleaning the bathroom, doing the washing, general cleaning, he might not feel he can leave a book out because it will be tidied away the next day, or if in a rush he has left his pants on the floor and she has washed them, to me its a lack of privacy and the fact I couldn't relax in my own home knowing my MIL, who you have already said can be judgemental is judging me for leaving shit on my floor in my house.

How would you feel if say his mum comes round to mind your new baby (when older) and started cleaning, doing the washing etc, would it then be, its ok she is doing it off her own back,she likes doing it, she does alot for us.

Roughly how many times has he tried to say, can you ask her not to clean, or depending on subtly, I will put the washing on when I get home, or has said I know we are going to be late lets get a take away for you to say, oh mum has done that, its ok mum has cooked.

How would you feel if say his mum comes round to mind your new baby (when older) and started cleaning, doing the washing etc, would it then be, its ok she is doing it off her own back,she likes doing it, she does alot for us.

I would appreciate the help.

Roughly how many times has he tried to say, can you ask her not to clean, or depending on subtly, I will put the washing on when I get home, or has said I know we are going to be late lets get a take away for you to say, oh mum has done that, its ok mum has cooked.

He has never mentioned it before. She doesn’t cook for us, she makes DD’s tea when she looks after her after school. We get Hello Fresh boxes and he usually cooks them

Congratulations on the impending arrival. I feel for you, as someone with a very judgemental mother in law i completely understand where your husband is coming from as I always stresd before seeing her. Sorry to say, but I empathise with your husband who is asking you if he can have time with his first born without your mother being there, as it is such a magical time for a parent. His request is very reasonable and your mother should understand and if not get over it. I understand that after having a baby you can be tender and focused on establishing breastfeeding but your partner wants to support you. But if you want your mother there after the birth then you need to compromise with your husband. It should be a joint decision between you and your partner about your mother being there but by you saying I might just play it by ear will result in your mother being present and your husband not wanting her there. Are you going to be able to ask her when you come home from the hospital after the birth that she is not to call around for a week? That would be unfair on everybody. Also your husband is spending the coming weeks dreading your mother being around after the birth at a time when he should be focused on the excitement of the new arrival because you don't to have a difficult conversation with your mother. Granted your mother helps you a lot but that should not be under the condition that you cannot say no to her and ignore your husbands wishes. You should have the conversation with your mother now and explain that you as a family unit want a week or two alone to bond as a family. As a poster noted your husband has only 2 weeks paternity so allow him this time that he will never get back. If I were in your position I would allow him mother-in-law free time with his new baby and I would have the conversation with my mother ASAP to get it all sorted so the final weeks of pregnancy are stress and worry free for you and your husband. But if you want your mum there then you also have a right, but that is at the cost of your partners wishes. Not an easy decision for you as a hormonal heavily pregnant lady as either way your husband will be upset or you and your mother (that is if she is upset, she may understand). Hope it all works out for the best and the birth and early days go well. Enjoy every minute.

There's a couple in my family, where the woman has the same enmeshed relationship you and your DM seem to have. She can't seem to function without her DM's input, and her DM thrives on the still being in control of her DD's life, even now she's in her 40s. The man is undermined, way down the pecking order and has eventually given up trying to be heard in his own home. I don't see a future for them tbh as his DW and MIL call all the shots because they always back each other up, regardless of his opinions. Sadly, his side of the family are frozen out somewhat.
You sound like you over rely on your DM and you've now painted yourself into a corner.