Feeling a bit caught between DP and my DMum- new baby on the way

[LittleRa]

I’m 37 weeks pregnant with my second baby, however it is my DP’s first (my nearly 7yo DD is from a previous relationship).
Obviously we’re all very excited

Last night DP and I got talking about birth choices and preferences etc, and the conversation also led on to preferences for after the birth, with a newborn baby.

Now, my DMum can be a little bit.... overbearing. We have had some tense moments over the years, but nothing major, no big fall outs, more just frustrations. I think she is kind of a snob and sometimes says things without thinking, she also has ridiculously high standards that she holds me and my sister to. However, I know that this is because she wants the best for us. I think she sometimes forgets we’re grown ups now She also does absolutely loads for me and for DD- she picks my DD up from school two days a week and while she’s at my house she does laundry, cleans the bathroom etc. She’s bought loads of things for the new baby (probably unnecessarily so...) and has washed all the new baby clothes. She sends my DD little presents in the post (during lockdown). She’s very generous and kind.

However, I completely understand this feeling that she gives my DP, that he voiced last night, that she is judgemental or that things one does aren’t good enough for her. Obviously she makes me feel like that- she’s my Mum!! But I’m sad to hear she makes him feel like that too. I’ve told him she doesn’t mean it and it’s just her way, she probably goes home and kicks herself about things she’s said.

An example is that when she was at my house looking after DD, a slightly batty neighbour caught her in the street and said “You have to tell your son in law not to park his car there, as it makes it tricky for me to get my bins through on bin day”. When my DP got home from work, DM passed this “message” on from neighbour, saying things like “it’s important to get along with your neighbours” and suggesting alternative places to park along the street. This got his back up a bit as he didn’t want to be dictated to about where to park, by either the neighbour or DM. Later that night DM texted saying she was sorry she’d got involved, she shouldn’t have said anything etc.

Now, DP is very laid back, and is extremely supportive of me. He’s happy to support my choices in birth, parenting, with the baby etc. However, what was coming out of the conversation last night was that his preference would be to not have DM round on the first few days, maybe first week after the baby is born. I had assumed we would form an under 1s bubble (we already have a childcare bubble for DD but this allows her to look after DD, not to be in the house with me socialising). She’s my DM and I feel like after the birth she will be able to be such a big help- like I said, she does several loads of laundry each time she’s here, changes my DD’s bed sheets, does dishes, she’ll cook if we’re going to be late home from work. Also because she’s my Mum, I’ll feel she can support with more intimate care like if I’m getting breastfeeding established, if I’ve got stitches and am bleeding etc.

DP says he really does appreciate all the things she does for us, but as a first time parent to a newborn (DD was 3 when we met) he wants time to be able to establish confidence without feeling like he’s being judged for “doing it wrong” or that any unthinking comments will be made that make him feel inadequate or awkward. He feels that after the first little bit once we’re a bit more established in our roles as new parents to a newborn would be the time to introduce other people to the situation.

We’ve been doing NCT and some of the other couples have spoken about how Covid restrictions and lockdown have meant that they’ve decided to say no visitors at all (eg if they both have sets of divorced parents to choose from, easier to just say no one). I definitely feel that having the restrictions as an excuse to not have streams of visitors coming in and out (which I do remember having when DD was newborn) is a good thing! But I feel just DM is different. But I do understand what DP is saying and would like to be in our own little world for a while too!

I have said to him that if DM doesn’t come to help, then I will need him to step up with the household jobs that she does. Which he’s said he of course would.

Just some other info-
-DM was also her same overbearing self when DD was born but she was still working full time then whereas she has since retired so has a lot more time to dedicate to family. She lives about 45 mins away, so not on the doorstep.
-DP will have 2 weeks paternity leave, and then be back to work, so I suppose that will be the time I really need DM to come during the day and help.

I’m not sure whether I should say to DP- suck it up, I need my DM to help too and if she makes any comments just let them go over your head, she means well and I trust you and know you will be an amazing dad. Or say to DM- when we come out of hospital we want a few days/week where you don’t come round while we find our feet. I know she would be sad about that. Also, she will be looking after DD when we’re in hospital.
Am I overthinking, shall I play it by ear and see how it goes a bit more, or do I need to manage expectations beforehand. I was wondering about saying something to DM like DP is feeling nervous about becoming a new Dad and so to be mindful of being positive and supportive etc and that we’ll need time. I have actually joked to DP to give it a few days and he’ll be ringing her up begging her to come and help out

It is likely your dad still feels like a third wheel in his relationship with his wife also; he seems so laid back here he is almost horizontal. He cannot be relied upon here either. He has singularly failed also here to protect you from the excesses of his wife's behaviours towards you as her now adult daughter.

@Oblahdeeoblahdoe

I think you're getting a bit of a hard time here *@LittleRa*. My DMiL was very helpful to us (my own DM not so much) and would even do the ironing if she was babysitting when we had a night out. No wonder I loved her so much I didn't see it as interfering or being over involved, she did it out of love for us. What your DM does on those 2 days is great and is just what I would do for my DD and her family if it was needed. Take no notice of those saying they had loads of kids, worked 100 hours and still did the housework! Your DM helps you out and I've noticed she doesn't hang around when you and your DP get home so she's not all bad is she? Obviously respect your DP's view but don't let this spoil your relationship with your DM. You don't have to have a showdown or any kind of conflict. I agree with your approach entirely. Enjoy your new baby!

Thank you. I do appreciate all the replies, the harsh ones are making me think. But this one is much more in line with what I was thinking myself, and I appreciate it.

I have the same age gap between my children, and beyond an hour of visiting just the once, we didn't see either family afterwards. I am not sure you are going to need all of this 'help' op. Most families are fine on their own, and enjoy their time together. I found it was fine, and we had a good routine. I certainly didn't need tons of outside help.

Are you feeling anxious about how you manage?
Do you think your mother may have eroded your self confidence? And made you feel you can't manage without her?

I raised two children on my own, with no help as one side is dead and the other lives hours away. It is fine honestly. We have great memories.

Just keep everything very simple.

When I had my DD, my dad had to drive me to the hospital in labour as my exh was on a 13 month drink driving ban sad He was pretty useless.

That was then. You now have a partner who isn't useless. He should be able to prove his worth, without feeling inferior. You're enabling your DParents to overstep the mark.

I basically agree with most of the previous posters and you also seem to be seeing the point that your DPs feelings are paramount at this time.
However, I think, as is typical on Mumsnet, you are getting a hard time with everyone piling on. Already in your OP you were clearly considering your DP's feelings and giving it some real thought, together with asking for advice here, which you are listening too. That's easy better than many, many other people who don't give things a second thought and just plough on regardless. Keeping thinking and communicating with DP and mum and you will be fine. Enjoy your baby, both of you.

I love my MIL but I'd be uncomfortable with her cleaning my house and doing my laundry. Yes, your DM may do it off her own back and you find it helpful, but I'd find it intrusive. You should listen to him. Sounds like he keeps a lot of his opinions about your mother to himself but on this occasion, where it involves time bonding with his newborn, he feels he needs to air his opinion and rightly so.

Some MILs and mothers are genuinely helpful and in your case Oblahdeeoblahdoe boundaries were clear and fully accepted.

LittleRa's mother comes at this from wanting to exert more power and control, she has herself stated her mother is overbearing. Overbearing people never mean well. Boundaries here are so blurred they are almost non existent.

Its not help either; its merely imposing her own high standards on OP and her own household (also because mother feels her own daughter and her partner are somehow not capable). The mother/daughter relationship in OPs case is enmeshed and emotionally unhealthy.

This is a tricky situation. It sounds like your DM genuinely means well and is enormously helpful, but I understand your DH not wanting his confidence knocked.
My mum came to stay for a week after the birth of my two children and her help was INVALUABLE. She looked after the house, she did all the washing, cooking, shopping and cleaning - leaving DH and me with nothing to focus on except looking after the baby, it was fantastic for bonding. Obviously she still got plenty of baby cuddles too but most of the time she was actually pottering about being useful.
I think it would be quite ungrateful and hurtful to tell your mum she can't visit for a week after the birth when she usually does so much for you. Cant you talk to both of them and explain to DM that your DH is really keen to bond with the baby without interference, and explain to DH that it will be much easier for him to focus on you and baby if DM is doing some of the housework and childcare tasks to take pressure off him.

She can be critical and overbearing but I thought lots of mothers were like that, I see lots of threads about it on here. And it’s not like she’s sniping and horrid every single time she’s here, it’s more passing throwaway comments that niggle.

Look, OP, you're taking a lot for granted in your assumptions. No, not all mothers are critical and overbearing, or, if they are, are allowed to give rein to those tendencies around their adult children and their adult children's partners. You admit she can be critical and overbearing, but you think that's normal, presumably because you love her, despite her flaws, and you've grown up thinking this is normal. Your DH doesn't love her -- she's not his mother. He may not even like her. He hasn't grown up thinking this kind of relationship is normal. So he's naturally finds your mother's behaviour considerably more irritating and intrusive than you do, and doesn't want it to interfere with an important event in your joint life together.

My DH's family all behave as though my MIL's tactlessness and family-matriarch-style tendency to interfere is something humorously inevitable, like the weather. 'Oh, you know what she's like!' Well, yes, but I didn't grow up in that family, and that isn't my normal. So she does not behave like that around me. Likewise, I don't let my mother whom I love exercise her equally irritating tendencies around DH, because he doesn't love her.

I kept them both away for three weeks when we had DS, because they were a shorthaul flight away and couldn't just nip in to say hello, and because I certainly didn't want MIL throwing her weight around, and could entirely understand DH not wanting my mother around either.

And I agree with others that you sound insanely dependent on your parents for someone well into adulthood.

I am just trying to get over the fact that your mum is doing so much housework for you both. I feel you both start to need to do some adulting, and definately have some space from your mum

OP I'm in a similar situation to you. Pregnant with DS2, overbearing mum. If she was here during the first few weeks, we would be told how we can do everything better and differently down to how we hold the baby. She won't stop that behaviour and it's not fair to subject DH to it so I won't be letting her come (in fact we are NC now because she is so overbearing - we miss out on the support as we have no other family but DH and I have each other).

We weren't NC when my first was born and her "trying to be helpful" ie overbearing / interfering was so awful that I stopped talking to her for 6 months. It really ruined a special time for DH and me. She had even bought a laptop and had decided that she would move in with us for at least 4 weeks to support us as there was no way in her eyes that we could cope and it would give her the opportunity to guide and advise us.

I think your partner is reasonable in his request and I would feel extremely sorry for him if his memory of the first 2 weeks was how his MIL took over.

Seeing a tiny new born is pretty special, especially when it is a grandchild. Could you pick a warm dry day and meet for a walk without Dp? Then form the bubble two weeks later when DP back at work.

I'm with your DH on this one.

Well I think in the beginning she was kinda thinking the DP was overreacting.

If you have swung to the middle a bit, it has been worth posting.

And its true that those of us who just got on with it, will find it hard to comprehend parents still mowing a 35 year old lawn or washing a 28 year old son in laws underpants. The thoughts of either my mother or my mother in law stripping my sheets and seeing the dried stain of the wet patch makes me want to curl into a little ball, tbh.

But people who are used to a lot of parental input may find this not that big a deal???

But what everyone agrees is a big deal is your husbands feelings. And that those feelings Trump your mothers. She's had her time with babies. He hasn't. This is HIS time. And if he perceives that you are actually listening to him and putting boundaries in place that he's comfortable with, then it can only benefit your relationship.

Little Ra may well come to have further painful realisations re her own mother as her children grow up. Do not kick this particular can down the road LittleRa, address this now re your mother and start saying no particularly whilst your children are still young. I do think your mother has deliberately lowered your confidence and has used you also as her main companion and validation for her own existence. She forgets you now have a partner and family of your own and between you and he you are more than capable of getting on with household chores without her doing them to her exacting high standards.

What sort of a relationship does your sister have with your parents these days?.

I’m 32 weeks pregnant, and in a similar situation ish. My in laws are having our DS while we’re in having the baby, and I know everyone is going to want to descend to meet baby.

We’ve put a blanket ban on visitors (like aunts and uncles who seemed to think they’d be visiting even with Covid restrictions?!).

For immediate family (mine and his parents) we’ve said that we’re going to be isolating as soon as we’re home for 10 days to ensure we didn’t pick anything up in hospital.

This is partly as my dad is CEV, and also I don’t much fancy recovering from a section and getting feeding sorted with an audience like last time!

Perhaps the “we’ll be isolating for 10 days to ensure we haven’t picked anything up” is an easy way to sort it?

Would it be possible for your DM to watch your DD at her home instead of yours?

After reading the entire thread, I suspect that your DP would like to have his home and privacy back that is just the 4 of you.

It would be unnerving to come home and know my MIL had been in my home messing with my things, in my space, every week, week after week.

It is a bit much and it is up to you to set some boundaries with your DM. You are her DD but she has to realise you have a DP and almost 2 DC and a family of your own and your family needs to come first.
Doing all these things, buying these things, cleaning your house, mowing the lawns is just over the top intrusive.

I mean I can picture your DM organising your kitchen for you to suit her.

Please consider your DP here and give him a chance to be the man of the house with you and the DC; without his inlaws around so much.

If my dd wanted to me to be a massive part of her life, then I would gladly help and do whatever was needed. Especially in the early years, and if YOU are happy with this op, then you must make the most of it!

Dp will soon be back at work, and you may well need her support.

If she is outstaying her welcome/crossing boundaries, that is different.

However my earlier point is that you can easily raise two children without any help, especially with a three year age gap. You don't need the help really, but it is nice to have if your mother is welcome and you are happy with the arrangement. Beyond the two week paternity period when you should be together and on your own, after that is your decision.

I don't think it's fair to expect her to come running to help when you dictate it but shut her out when the baby is new.

Your husband is young, not a parent and has no idea what to expect.

You are close to your mum - that's absolutely fine and ignore all the judgmental raised eyebrows from people on here.

He wants a week, you don’t, meet in the middle at 3 days.

Go straight to your mum and tell her- not in a this is what we are doing way as she sounds like a good mum with good intentions so approach it differently but don’t leave it to telling her last minute!!

You also may want to have practice runs of what your going to day to ensure her she is great but DH is overly excited at his first and just really really wants the 3 days

Does your DP know the housework she is doing on the days she has DD. You say he rarely sees her due to timings but at the same time he has spent enough time with her to feel undermined and judged by her. Noone should feel like that in their own home so I'm not surprised he's asking this of you.

I do think you have an enmeshed relationship with DM as people have said above and you need to set boundaries now. on the 2 days she has DD she's there to look after DD that is all. Is there any reason why she doesn't take her to her house?

@ElspethFlashman

Well I think in the beginning she was kinda thinking the DP was overreacting.

If you have swung to the middle a bit, it has been worth posting.

And its true that those of us who just got on with it, will find it hard to comprehend parents still mowing a 35 year old lawn or washing a 28 year old son in laws underpants. The thoughts of either my mother or my mother in law stripping my sheets and seeing the dried stain of the wet patch makes me want to curl into a little ball, tbh.

But people who are used to a lot of parental input may find this not that big a deal???

But what everyone agrees is a big deal is your husbands feelings. And that those feelings Trump your mothers. She's had her time with babies. He hasn't. This is HIS time. And if he perceives that you are actually listening to him and putting boundaries in place that he's comfortable with, then it can only benefit your relationship.

I said she changes my daughters sheets, she doesn’t change mine and DPs. I don’t know why there’d be a dry stain of a cum wet patch left hanging about anyway, obviously I’d strip those myself the next morning

It's not a 3 year gap, it's a 7 year gap!

Even the 7 year old can help out with fetching nappies and stuff.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

Little Ra may well come to have further painful realisations re her own mother as her children grow up. Do not kick this particular can down the road LittleRa, address this now re your mother and start saying no particularly whilst your children are still young. I do think your mother has deliberately lowered your confidence and has used you also as her main companion and validation for her own existence. She forgets you now have a partner and family of your own and between you and he you are more than capable of getting on with household chores without her doing them to her exacting high standards.

What sort of a relationship does your sister have with your parents these days?.

My sister is single and lives alone. My parents do things to help her too (eg Dad cut the grass) but probably not as much as for me, as what they do for me is really for my DD- collecting her from school, making her tea, listening to her read her reading book, changing her bedding. As well as some extra jobs that help me like clean round the bathroom and a couple of loads of everyone’s laundry.

@Cocolapew

You need to listen to what your DP is saying. If you're at home with the new naby you don't need your mum around to do so much surely? I'm sure you're perfectly capable of getting a clean top by yourself .

This. I can't see how two adults can't manage the baby and the 7year old and a bit of housework. In the first few weeks babies do actually sleep a lot during the day. It's a bit feeble to think you need another adult as well.

OP I think it stood out to me that you have said several times how easy-going your partner is, always wanting to make you happy. All the more reason to really listen to what he is telling you about what he wants this time, this clearly is important to him.