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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

A sex one

171 replies

LivingDeadDoll · 12/02/2021 07:02

I'm in my mid 40s and have never had a good relationship.

I lost my virginity at 19 but didn't really have a lot of sex. Most of the sex I had was drunken, missionary and a bit dull. I was raped twice before 21 which really put me off sex and I became fearful of it although I didn't realise that at the time really.

I married a man who was a virgin. We married because we were best friends not because we fancied or romantically loved each other. We had sex a few times in the early days but he was very inexperienced and there was no passion. We were together for 12 long, dull, sexless years.

After him, I decided I was going to have a bit of a personal sexual revolution but it didn't really work put that way. I've probably had sex with 8 men in the last 10 years. First, was a fuck buddy and that was the first time I'd even shared a bath with someone - I was 38. After that, I met men who really only wanted to do missionary - roll on, grunt a few times, roll off. Or had ED and so preferred hand jobs or bjs.

In late 2019, I started dating a man who was very sexual. I was so unbelievably attracted to him but my past all came back to haunt me and sex was a disaster. I was hugely intimidated by his experience and I felt woefully inadequate which made me really withdrawn sexually. I realised that I'm not very good with the spontaneous aspect of sex and I need there to be a lot of communication around it - what's going to be done, how etc. I told him about my past and how there are certain positions I find really triggering. He was incredibly understanding but I think it made him a bit fearful of initiating and upsetting me and he started waiting for me to do so. This, in turn, knocked my confidence further and I felt like he had gone off me sexually so I didn't really and, 5 months ago, I ended it.

There is obviously a lot of care and affection still there. For the first few weeks after breaking up, we saw each other only as friends. As Christmas approached, we became a lot closer. No sex or even hints at it but we spent about 3 months taking it slowly and getting to know each other again without the pressure of a label or expectations. We flirted and become a lot closer emotionally. A couple of weeks ago we had sex. It was really nice but I still had anxious feelings around it. We've seen each other about 3 times since. Had sex on one other occasion but the other times not. There's no expectation of sex and he is really respectful when we do.

I suppose none of it is simple in my head. I want an exciting and interesting sex life within a loving relationship but I'm plagued with feelings of inadequacy and the knowledge that, whatever we do, he'll have memories of doing similar with other women who were younger, slimmer, more confident and better skilled than me. I don't want him to feel he's having to 'teach' me and I'd feel small and insecure and stupid if he did. Although he's nothing other than kind and caring.

I feel big and awkward having sex. I'm torn between trying to sort this out and just accepting that I'm approaching 50 in the next few years and that sex and relationships are just something I need to accept isn't going to happen for me and put it in the past.

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justilou1 · 06/03/2021 13:54

(And we survived that. We’ve had the therapy to understand it. We need to move out of it now.)

Thinkivepulledsommat · 06/03/2021 13:57

I think you’re very aware of your (good) instincts and are afraid that teaching yourself to think more positively and be less guarded will make you vulnerable. But I’m not sure it will. It’s not like you’re suddenly going to become one of those women who believes all the love bombing. You’re still you - you’re just focusing on what could go wrong rather than what could go right.

As an experiment, why don’t you spend a few days imagining what this relationship would look like if it worked out exactly as you want it. Holidays? Days out? Amazing, relaxed, comfortable sex? And then, as your daughter gets older and leaves home, doing lots of fun things together? Maybe even growing old together with him, totally happy and comfortable in his company.

Why is that less likely than it all going horribly wrong? Just because something has happened before doesn’t mean it’s going to happen again.

Sometimes we can spend so long thinking about the bad luck we’ve had in the past that we miss our ‘Cinderella’ moment!

secretskillrelationships · 06/03/2021 14:08

That's what I suspected. So, on some level, you're setting him up to fail - you claim you'd be happy with friendship but you're having sex with him, yet you say you're not up for fwb or a relationship. He doesn't strike me as someone who just wants friendship either because he's having sex with you. If he asks for any of the other options you'll say no.

I think part of you wants to end this relationship to avoid getting hurt but I think another part of you wants to heal and risk a relationship, which is why you haven't ended it this time and are avoiding the issue. Yes, it's scary taking a risk but the alternative is what you've already had and that's not really working for you either. Your strategy of not getting involved has worked amazingly well at keeping you emotionally safe. But it's no longer working, there's a part of you that wants to change which is why you are trying. What is that part of you saying about this situation? Can you allow space to at least listen to this voice, I think it might have something interesting to tell you.

LivingDeadDoll · 06/03/2021 17:54

So, on some level, you're setting him up to fail

Not internationally and not 'fail'.

I just find it all very confusing and difficult to read.

I think part of you wants to end this relationship to avoid getting hurt but I think another part of you wants to heal and risk a relationship, which is why you haven't ended it this time and are avoiding the issue

This is very true.

What is that part of you saying about this situation? Can you allow space to at least listen to this voice, I think it might have something interesting to tell you.

It's confused and scared. Scared of taking the risk. Confused about what's going on/on offer. Not really sure if there's a risk to be taken. Not sure if it's reading the situation right...

Wondering if it's worth all the thinking.

Why is that less likely than it all going horribly wrong? Just because something has happened before doesn’t mean it’s going to happen again.

No. But I reasonably predict the sun will rise every day and that water will boil at 100° because that's what experience tells me. We all base predictions on what will happen in the future on what has happened in the past. Especially consistently.

And I just can't really imagine any of the nice things I imagine a relationship to look like being a part of my life.

I have friends who have been together for 30+ years, since their teens. My neighboyr lost her husband a couple of years ago in her 80s. They'd been together since they were 15! Other friends who have been with their partners for 10/20 years. I just can't imagine that.

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secretskillrelationships · 06/03/2021 21:00

What is that part of you saying about this situation? Can you allow space to at least listen to this voice, I think it might have something interesting to tell you.

It's confused and scared. Scared of taking the risk. Confused about what's going on/on offer. Not really sure if there's a risk to be taken. Not sure if it's reading the situation right...

No, this is the dominant voice you're used to listening to, the one that tells you that it's all too scary and you should back off. This is the part of you that's setting him up to fail, and I say that without judgement, it's scared based on history and it's trying to protect you. And it's worked really well for such a long time. But there's another voice too, the one that recognises he's spending time helping you etc and that's the one I mean. It doesn't get heard and every time it tries, the scared one jumps on it and shouts it down. But it's there because if it wasn't you wouldn't even be posting here!

What does that voice want to tell you? It's like you've got two small children and one is loud and dominating but like a good parent, you need to make time for the quiet, unassuming one too because they often have a different and interesting perspective. The noisy one is so used to being in charge but it sees the world as black and white, good and bad. The quieter voice recognises nuance, that situations and people are more complex, no-one is all good or all bad.

It's this black and white voice that's catastrophising too - you can't see it lasting the next 20, 30, 40 years so why bother at all! What about trying to break it down a little. What if you only had to think about today? Is it good enough for today? Let tomorrow take care of itself. Or, of that doesn't work for you, set a date a month ahead, 6 months whatever works and review then. Not all relationships last for decades but that doesn't mean they're not meaningful or worthwhile.

justilou1 · 06/03/2021 23:36

You also know that you have a wonderful friend and that if he isn’t thinking along those lines, you didn’t have anything to lose.
However, this is a man who:
A) Your daughter likes and trusts - and you trust HER judgement
B) You’ve been “fooling around” with, and yet no further boundaries have been crossed. This is a man who is not taking advantage of you. He respects you and has heard you.
C) Despite your previous conversation where you kinda broke up with him, he keeps coming back and puts a lot of time and energy into his relationship with you.

Honestly, I think you need to have that talk too. Not only because it’s time to piss or get off the pot, but because he’s probably going just as crazy, too. Also, he’s about to start his new job. If he thinks there will never be any hope for a relationship with you, then his options are open.

justilou1 · 06/03/2021 23:40

By the way, if the thing that is stopping you from risking a relationship with this man is the fear of a broken heart, that’s insane. You will have your heart broken by your daughter repeatedly during her lifetime. If you’ve ever lost a pet, that’s another kind. Long-term relationships that are happy ALSO involve heartbreak, AND resolution. It’s not always happy, happy, joy, joy all the time. That’s not sustainable at all. It’s the decision you make about which risk is better for you.... do you risk happiness with someone else, or maintaining the status quo and wondering what could have been?

LivingDeadDoll · 07/03/2021 12:02

By the way, if the thing that is stopping you from risking a relationship with this man is the fear of a broken heart, that’s insane

I think it's just bringing it up in the first place. I don't know what to say!

I'm at his at the moment. We've just shared a bath and he's making breakfast.

You're right though about it being time to shit or get off the pot! Everytime I go to say something, though, I just can't get the words out! 🙄

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justilou1 · 07/03/2021 12:19

How about just that...? Very not the most romantic lead in though... "It's time to shit or get off the pot.... Are we going to do this?"

LivingDeadDoll · 07/03/2021 12:25

Well it to the point, I guess! Grin

Is there a more delicate phrase that expresses the same sentiment? I can't think right now!!

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LivingDeadDoll · 07/03/2021 12:29

Because, actually, a bit of a, "I've moved house and want this to be a really fresh and positive start for me and you're starting a new job, which is a great and positive new start for you. We've been skirting around something since Christmas-ish time and I kind of think it's time for us to either shit or get off the pot really. Are we going to do this or not?" Is kind of what I want to express in a nutshell!

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justilou1 · 07/03/2021 12:39

Weird how words are more intimate than sharing a bath with a man.... How about you just say that?

CraftyYankee · 07/03/2021 17:41

That sounds pretty on point to me.

And yes, it's funny that you are so casual about just having had a bath together but worrying about a classier way of saying shit or get off the pot 😂

LivingDeadDoll · 07/03/2021 18:58

And yes, it's funny that you are so casual about just having had a bath together but worrying about a classier way of saying shit or get off the pot

Well, when you put it like that... 😂

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CraftyYankee · 07/03/2021 19:31

To each their own 😁

When I was in school I was heavily flirting with a guy I liked. We stayed up all night talking. I kept waiting for him to make a move and nothing. Finally around 6am I heaved a deep sigh, said "Do I have to do everything in this relationship?" and kissed him.

Reader, I still remind him of it 25 years and two kids later. 😂

justilou1 · 07/03/2021 19:33

Gaaah! You’re killing ME here!

LivingDeadDoll · 08/03/2021 06:09

CraftyYankee

That's such a lovely story! I'd never have the confidence to do that! So pleased it worked out for you 😊

Ok. I've realised having a conversation is going to be difficult for me and I'm going to really struggle with that. Plus, I'm going to ramble and my words will all come out wrong if I get any out in the first place 🙄

He regards texting as a second rate necessary evil form of communication and wouldn't want a conversation like that via text.

So I'm going to take the old fashioned route of writing a letter.

I drafted one out last night. Basically saying that it's weird how finding the right words is harder than doing almost anything else at the moment, summarising why I want to clarify things (my new house and his new job; the gradual lifting of lockdown and life returning to 'normal'; and not wanting to go forward with uncertainty etc). I've said how much I value him as a friend and I don't want that to change whatever happens.

And this

I think the crux of things, for me, is that I have feelings for you that go beyond friendship and I'd really like us to be together, if I'm honest. But what I really don't want is a 'friend with benefits' or a 'casual Lockdown Fling'. I wouldn't hold it against you if that is all you want in order to alleviate Lockdown Boredom - but it's not what I want and it's not what I need right now. I'd rather box my feelings up and put them back on the shelf if that's the case, no harm done.

I went on to say that we obviously need a proper conversation either way but that it had just taken him 2 minutes to read something it would have taken me an hour to say!

How does that sound? I think he'd appreciate a letter as it will it give him time to consider his response.

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CraftyYankee · 08/03/2021 07:06

I think it sounds lovely. Will you give it to him in person? I wouldn't trust it to Royal Mail!

justilou1 · 08/03/2021 08:19

Very brave!!! But if you don’t give it to him, I’m swimming there from Australia myself to Dr Phil the both of you. (And I fucking loathe Dr Phil!)

LivingDeadDoll · 08/03/2021 12:21

Haha well I was going to post it but he's coming round for dinner on Wednesday so I might give it to him as he leaves. Or sneak it into his coat pocket...

I doubt I'll get it written (and rewritten...) and posted to arrive before then.

I'm not asking him for anything right now. I'm just telling him how i feel.

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CraftyYankee · 09/03/2021 07:50

Better get to writing then! 😇

LivingDeadDoll · 10/03/2021 17:31

Well there's been a slight spanner in the works.

The job offer appears to have fallen through which he's, obviously, gutted about.

He cancelled coming over tonight because i think he's just feeling really down in the dumps about it and I think the financial worry (he hasn't worked for a year through covid and has been living on savings) is really concerning him.

I spoke to him last night and his confidence has really taken a hit.

So I've decided that now is completely the wrong time to broach this with him. I don't think he'd see it as a light in the darkness, as it were, but feels that he isn't in a position to be in a relationship - in the vein of who wants an unemployed man?

So i don't know what the future will hold. Thanks for all the advice, support and words of encouragement I've had though.

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LivingDeadDoll · 10/03/2021 17:32

To add, I'm concentrating on getting the house sorted and being back at work. I'm not pining or broken hearted - it's life, isnt it?

Maybe see how things plan out in the future...

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CraftyYankee · 10/03/2021 18:27

Poor guy, that is a shame. Maybe invite him over at the weekend if he feels up to it just so he doesn't have to be alone.

LivingDeadDoll · 10/03/2021 18:34

I did think that but i invited him over the evening and I think it'll just come across as pestering, desperate and unattractive if final him again.

I think I need to give him time to come to me.

I did give him the option of confirming tonight's dinner today - depending on how he felt - but I haven't heard from him at all. I phoned him last night and he sounded really fed up.

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