A sex one

[LivingDeadDoll]

I'm in my mid 40s and have never had a good relationship.

I lost my virginity at 19 but didn't really have a lot of sex. Most of the sex I had was drunken, missionary and a bit dull. I was raped twice before 21 which really put me off sex and I became fearful of it although I didn't realise that at the time really.

I married a man who was a virgin. We married because we were best friends not because we fancied or romantically loved each other. We had sex a few times in the early days but he was very inexperienced and there was no passion. We were together for 12 long, dull, sexless years.

After him, I decided I was going to have a bit of a personal sexual revolution but it didn't really work put that way. I've probably had sex with 8 men in the last 10 years. First, was a fuck buddy and that was the first time I'd even shared a bath with someone - I was 38. After that, I met men who really only wanted to do missionary - roll on, grunt a few times, roll off. Or had ED and so preferred hand jobs or bjs.

In late 2019, I started dating a man who was very sexual. I was so unbelievably attracted to him but my past all came back to haunt me and sex was a disaster. I was hugely intimidated by his experience and I felt woefully inadequate which made me really withdrawn sexually. I realised that I'm not very good with the spontaneous aspect of sex and I need there to be a lot of communication around it - what's going to be done, how etc. I told him about my past and how there are certain positions I find really triggering. He was incredibly understanding but I think it made him a bit fearful of initiating and upsetting me and he started waiting for me to do so. This, in turn, knocked my confidence further and I felt like he had gone off me sexually so I didn't really and, 5 months ago, I ended it.

There is obviously a lot of care and affection still there. For the first few weeks after breaking up, we saw each other only as friends. As Christmas approached, we became a lot closer. No sex or even hints at it but we spent about 3 months taking it slowly and getting to know each other again without the pressure of a label or expectations. We flirted and become a lot closer emotionally. A couple of weeks ago we had sex. It was really nice but I still had anxious feelings around it. We've seen each other about 3 times since. Had sex on one other occasion but the other times not. There's no expectation of sex and he is really respectful when we do.

I suppose none of it is simple in my head. I want an exciting and interesting sex life within a loving relationship but I'm plagued with feelings of inadequacy and the knowledge that, whatever we do, he'll have memories of doing similar with other women who were younger, slimmer, more confident and better skilled than me. I don't want him to feel he's having to 'teach' me and I'd feel small and insecure and stupid if he did. Although he's nothing other than kind and caring.

I feel big and awkward having sex. I'm torn between trying to sort this out and just accepting that I'm approaching 50 in the next few years and that sex and relationships are just something I need to accept isn't going to happen for me and put it in the past.

Sorry, I managed to miss the Romantic One, did you send the card in the end? I think it was a lovely idea for what it's worth now so I hope you did send it

No, I didnt send the card. I totally bottled it!

However, he did come over today and help me clear out the loft! I'm hiring a skip for the week and he's offered to come and help me clear out stuff and fill it.

And then he spent the evening playing board games with my daughter and me too. I don't look for meaning in everything but you wouldn't do that for just anyone, would you?

I think not much is learnt by a one night or a short lived experience

No, and that's all I have. I have no experience at all of relationship sex

Ah that's a shame, although my warped idea of romance actually thinks choosing to spend the day together doing mundane (but helpful) stuff is much sweeter than sending cards And I agree, he wouldn't be doing any of it if he didn't think you were pretty special.

I know exactly what you mean by this No, and that's all I have. I have no experience at all of relationship sex and it feels like some kind of dirty secret by the time you get to our age doesn't it? I'd had a combination of casual/one night things and relationships with men who were only interested in PIV and their own pleasure prior to DH so no opportunities to build closeness or intimacy or to develop any 'skills' iykwim The result for me was that I ended up feeling like a fraud, my history would suggest experience but I effectively had none. DH unfortunately had his own bad experiences before we got together and it's taken an embarrassingly long time for us to figure out what was wrong and how to begin to fix it.

I get that you're intimidated by (your perception of at least) his experience but it's actually a huge advantage if he is sexually confident. The fact that neither DH nor I were is the biggest thing that's held us back and we've both said it would have been easier if one of us could've taken the lead. The idea of being 'led' or taught will be making you cringe as you read this I know but that's where the trust thing comes in. If you can keep letting the emotional intimacy build by telling him (in bits and pieces over time, not all at once) about your fears and he continues to respond well it slowly gets easier to shut off that insecure voice and enjoy being with him. And then you start to learn stuff about what he likes and that builds your confidence and it all (hopefully!) follows on from there

I feel really quite excited for you tbh, he sounds lovely (as do you) and I think you've got a chance to build something really good here.

it feels like some kind of dirty secret by the time you get to our age doesn't it? I'd had a combination of casual/one night things and relationships with men who were only interested in PIV and their own pleasure prior to DH so no opportunities to build closeness or intimacy or to develop any 'skills' iykwim

Sadly, I know exactly what you mean! That's exactly how I'd describe myself.

In terms of 'skill' or just stupid things like knowing how to 'do' positions is just completely lacking.

Sorry for TMI, bit I'm more happy and confident giving bjs. I had a friend I practised on (and I'm pretty sure he didn't mind! 😆) a few years ago but I feel incredibly anxious and can feel myself tensing up whenever anything else is on the cards. It just makes me feel really sad.

I agree with you that he put a lot more effort into helping me yesterday and spending time with us than he would have spent sending a card!

I feel really quite excited for you tbh, he sounds lovely (as do you) and I think you've got a chance to build something really good here.

It would be nice, wouldn't it?

I just can't tell how he feels or what he's thinking at all. I know that I should really speak to him about it and what it is but i don't want to spoil what we have either.

See I'm the opposite, BJ's and handjobs made me want to curl up and die because I was so afraid of 'not doing it right' I definitely had more than my fair share of 'wham, bam' merchants though, totally PIV oriented so I at least got some practise at that!

When you think about the prospect of talking to him what do you feel are the most important things you need to get across? Can you pinpoint exactly what your fears are? I ask because I spent a long time 'just' being scared without really questioning why or what of. It's been much easier to explain to DH and figure out what would help since I've worked out where it all comes from.

I would agree with something someone else said earlier, it's in your head, men are just happy someone wants them.and you are beautiful and gorgeous to him no matter how you feel. Do you actually enjoy sex, like have orgasms etc (sorry I know its personal, but maybe a bit of self love might help) instead a really good feminist book about a girl whod been assaulted and she felt she needed to reclaim her body etc and feel confident in sex again and I found or very helpful

When you think about the prospect of talking to him what do you feel are the most important things you need to get across? Can you pinpoint exactly what your fears are? I ask because I spent a long time 'just' being scared without really questioning why or what of. It's been much easier to explain to DH and figure out what would help since I've worked out where it all comes from.

I'm similar in that it's just a generalised fear and anxiety around it.

I suppose... I'm scared of not doing it right; scared of looking hideous; scared of being compared unfavourably; scared of being thought negatively about. Scared of not being in control and scared of looking stupid. Scared of not being worth the hassle...

men are just happy someone wantsthem

I completely disagree with that, tbh. Men want interesting and fulfilling sex lives just as much as women do!

I do orgasm. Quite easily tbh so there are no issues there. I'm just too scared to try anything other than what I know. Which is very limited and limiting.

What is the title of the book please?

What about watching The Lover's Guide videos and Make Love Not Porn? You'll see all body types on there, especially the latter. But your self-esteem is the most important thing here.

I don't have a lot to add to the great advice you've already had but I just wanted to say that man, he sounds like one of the best. This sounds odd but rather than focusing on why you feel the way you do and analysing everything, could you work on trying to learn NOT to think and analyse and just go with the flow. When the doubt or a negative feeling starts creeping in to your head just try overtly shutting it down.

And also, have you considered speaking to the GP about trying an antidepressant... that might sound odd but I suffered for years with anxiety and obsessive, negative thought processes in relation to body image and eating, I guess a mild form of an eating disorder but it started ruling my entire life and the plans and decisions i made, it was a constant anxiety in my head
and a course of citalopram literally made me better. I'm just wondering if this is an anxiety that could actually be treated medically. Sorry if this is way out of line.

Desmondo2016

Not out of line at all. I've had ADs in the past but I'm not sue how I feel about them now. I probably should consider it again.

The not thinking about it is easier said than done (which I know you know) as soon as anything is tried, I tense up.

The worst thing is, I suspect I'm not entirely as 'vanilla' as my sex life so far has been/would suggest.

One of the reasons I like giving bjs is because of the 'dominance' aspect of it. Nothing crazy but in my head, I'm far less 'reserved' than my actions.

But I'm just petrified into inaction on everything

LicketySplat

I'll have a look at those thanks.

How do you feel about phone/text sex?

I'm mid forties, divorced for nearly 5 years and only 2 people before XH. We had a decent enough sex life and I've not met anyone in RL since we split, but I have had a couple of phone flings over the last year's various lockdowns.

They've been really helpful in terms of me discovering what I like/my more adventurous side (your 'not as vanilla as I thought' comment really resonated with me), and also gaining confidence in expressing my boundaries.

Your new man sounds lovely, and fwiw I think enthusiasm and an open mind (within your own comfort zone) are far more important than experience or body type.

Suggesting exploring the idea with your new man btw...not finding new men on the Internet...unless you want to

He isn't my new man. He's an ex I've become closer to over the past few months. I ended it partly because of my fears and anxieties around sex and how it made me feel that he viewed me in general.

He's stuck around. We've become closer. Recently we've had sex a couple of times. The last few times I've seen him, sex hasn't been on the cards at all because he's been to mine and my daughter has been around. He doesn't feel comfortable having sex with her in the house and doesnt even like to stop overnight because he's conscious of being in her home and her space and doesn't want her to feel uncomfortable.

We haven't really talked about what is going on now but clearly it's not just sex whatever it is.

I'm quite happy to do phone sex/texting as there's no physical risk to me. We tried video sex once when we were together and although it was good and he enjoyed it, I don't think he was too comfortable with it and didn't take me upon the offer of trying again. Which is fair enough.

If confidence in phone/text sex was going to make a difference, it would have done so by now.

I suppose... I'm scared of not doing it right; scared of looking hideous; scared of being compared unfavourably; scared of being thought negatively about. Scared of not being in control and scared of looking stupid. Scared of not being worth the hassle...

Can you track back where that started? I unravelled a huge amount when I asked myself that question. Some stuff directly to do with early sexual experiences but which I hadn't realised were so significant and then the big epiphany that it goes even further back for me to my dad fucking off when I was a baby and making me feel I was never 'good enough' for men in the first place. It's firmly rooted in self esteem issues for me and once I realised where the damage had come from it all started to make sense and I could see how to begin to fix it.

The worst thing is, I suspect I'm not entirely as 'vanilla' as my sex life so far has been/would suggest.

I'm definitely not vanilla, who knew?!!

Oh, Phew! I thought that, once I'd said that, I might he accused of trolling!!

How is it possible to be so sexually repressed and not vanilla at the same time??

Yes, I can pinpoint it. I quite clearly remember being a teenager and avoiding sex because my mum had made me feel so inadequate and inferior. Telling me I wasn't attractive and that no one would want me. Always criticising everything I did as not being good enough.

I had this idea that i would float through life all virginal and wearing white, barefoot and reading books under trees - above all the physical.

I had a friend at school who had a boyfriend for 3 years and she would tell me stuff that they did - theybwere comfortable, confident and adventurous and I remember thinking then that I'd never be able to do that stuff - he bound her hands and hung her from the hook on the bathroom door which subsequently broke!

I thought that lots of ons would give me confidence. They didn't. So here I am. Worried about what I look like from different angles, worried about getting it wrong. Worried about not being good enough. Worried about all of it.

I've had therapy and, in most things, I'm ok now but you're so physically and emotionally vulnerable and exposed during sex and I just can't make that final leap.

I was 40 when i broke up with my abusive exh. He was the only man i had ever been with and our sex life was awful. Once or twice a year, only ever from behind( as he didnt want to look at me) no affection or pleasure for me at all. When i met my DH i told him this, it was without doubt the hardest conversation I had ever had. I was terrified i would disapoint him, i hadnt even kissed with tongues before! Also I felt so ugly and undesirable.He told me there was no hurry, it took as long as it took and i had to stop thinking of sex as an olympic event i had to train at and be amazing at! He said all couples start at the same point and learn what each other like( or dont) Sex is not about what goes where, its about connection.
We had a long courtship with lots of kissing! I found that once full sex was off the table the pressure was off, and it made it much much easier to be intimate and affectionate with him. I also did some reading and learned how to please myself. That really helps too it helps you connect with your sexuality and once your body starts to give you pleasure it does not seem to be anywhere near as frightening. Its very empowering to know you are responsible for your sexuality and pleasure.
When we did sleep together it was very lovely indeed. You deserve pleasure. You deserve to be fulfilled. I hope things work out with your man as he sounds lovely.

I think I always knew there was more to me sexually than I was brave enough to show, it's taken me finally being in a relationship where I feel safe to bring that out of me I suppose. That must sound so strange when I've been with the same man for so long but we've come so far in the last couple of years it's like we were just treading water for the previous 18! Feeling safe and accepted has been the key to it all for me though, I finally believe that he's not going to run screaming from the room if I just do what I feel instead of obsessing about everything I do being 'wrong'.

It's the talking that got us here though, making myself emotionally vulnerable by telling him my fears and where they come from has brought us so much closer, we have proper intimacy now and that seems to naturally extend to sex. I hadn't talked to anyone about it before DH so I don't know whether therapy would have done this for you if anything was going to but I also felt like I offloaded some of my stuff in the telling if that makes sense. Speaking my fears out loud made me realise how illogical they were and I seem to have just let go of a lot of them, which feels like a minor miracle tbh

It's amazing how much of this stuff comes from childhood/family though isn't it? I doubt either of us would have ended up like this without that original seed of doubt in our own worth being sown by our parents and any bad experiences after that have just compounded the damage.

I would hesitate to say that your issue isn’t sex at all. You have no problem achieving Orgasm, and your language around sex is very erudite. I think your problem is intimacy. I think you’re correct that it comes from being told you’re not good enough, and that is why you feel you can’t risk opening up enough to truly trust someone - hence the passionless marriage to the man you were friends with, but never in love with. There was never any danger of you losing yourself there. Then obviously some dodgy ons... THIS guy has a behavioural set that shows you that he respects you, he is considerate of your feelings, is getting to know your kid in a completely appropriate way, is generous with his time and I honestly think is showing you how much he cares about you in a love language you are only beginning to scratch the surface of. I think if you go gently towards each other the way you have been doing, then this relationship might just have legs. Just try not to second-guess yourself. I don’t think this man has given you any reason to doubt him, has he?

justilou1

Wow. Yes, I think you're probably right about the intimacy thing. It's been said before, tbh, but I'd forgotten about that.

I'm very uncertain generally. I've seen him twice this week because I'm moving house and he's been helping me sort through stuff. I had a skip delivered yesterday and he spent 7 hours with me up in my loft, garage and utility clearing out an entire life time's worth of stuff! We almost filled the skip!

There was very little physical affection because we were focused on working and my daughter was there. But definitely an emotional closeness. I suppose...

Put bluntly, it wouldn't have been a fun day for him. He went home tired, physically exhausted and utterly filthy. Plus, it got a bit boring after a while and he still kept on and didn't complain once. He did take the piss about the amount of crap I had stored away though!

And, at the end of it, we had dinner and he still made time for my daughter. He shows an interest in her; listens to her teenage dramas and makes a real effort to make her feel included. I can tell she is comfortable around him and i know she likes him. She is quite a shy kid and a teenager (!) so this is all down to the effort he's made with her.

Yet, I'm doubting myself (and him) because I feel I haven't seen any obvious signs he's interested for a couple of weeks. But that's not true! He wouldn't have done any of that if he wasn't 'interested'. But I have wondered this week if its just a platonic interest because of the lack of anything else. But there would have been no opportunity for anything else! And it wouldn't have been appropriate. He knows my head is a bit all over the place with sorting and moving. So I hope he's just being respectful of that... I think it's made me realise how much weight I put on sex too, which I possibly part of the problem. I feel that if sex isn't happening, I haven't got anything else to keep someone interested. Which puts a lot of pressure on to the sex aspect. That again is due to things I was told growing up; that men would only want to use me for sex and there was nothing likeable or.l loveable about me. So i always have this conflict that 'men are only interested in sex and, yet, I can't do sex, ergo, no man will be truly interested in me.' Which means i shut them off and out to avoid developing feelings and never fully connect with anyone.

But it's the uncertainty and inherent sense of unworthiness that makes me have these thoughts. I think most people would think - he's choosing to spend time helping you out, he makes an effort with your daughter, there is affection just not as much as you need to see to believe it at the moment, he's not just interested in you for sex. What more do you want?! It's a good thing.

I suppose I'm wondering if he's lost interest in anything more.

I have trouble believing anyone would stick around if they weren't actually getting anything out if it at that moment.

I think, after all of this, if, the next time we are alone and just enjoying the evening and each others company, if it looked like 'more' was still on the cards, I would definitely feel I could trust him with some of the other stuff. He's literally seen the good, the bad and the ugly of my life over this week!

I suppose I'm also just a bit worried he's 'gone off me' over the past week or so and is just being a good friend to me now.

Weirdfan

I think I'm going to have to just trust in your experience! Your husband sounds amazing and it sounds like you have a really genuine and authentic connection. I'd love to experience that.

Redannie118

What a deadful experience you had with your exh! I'm so pleased to hear that things worked out for you after him!

I am quite, um, adept at pleasing myself. That was part of the sexual revolution I had that was successful. I was 38 before I'd even tried! My exh in the passionless relationship regarded it as dirty, a bit 'base' and cheating. Plus i had no sexual desire at all with him around. I didnt even fancy other men it was like that whole side of me had just switched off.

I do have sexual thoughts etc but it find it difficult actually involving someone else in it. I guess...

Wow. That was long. I was just processing stuff as I went!

Oh and i agree about the love language thing. He isn't one for words of affection but he shows he cares in other ways. I think I just couldn't see it before.

I very much doubt he would bother doing all this "family" kind of stuff with just anyone, @LivingDeadDoll. I think keeping the sex out of the equation has allowed you to open up to being emotionally intimate with him. It's like you have split yourself into two personalities there. You can have sex OR be emotionally intimate. It would be great if you could work through this. I suspect that you have CPTSD from your childhood. (I have the same). This is why you compartmentalise. I think you should maybe look at this as a possibility and look for specialised therapy. If you were to do some EMDR once the world opens up, you might find you actually respond pretty quickly. You sound like you have a really high EQ and want to move on with making changes.

I very much doubt he would bother doing all this "family" kind of stuff with just anyone

Yes, that's what I've been telling myself.

He has some very longstanding friends and they are all very considerate people and go out of their way to help each other. But these are people he's known for 30+ years. Not people he's known for a couple of years and he is not in any contact at all with women he's previously dated. So there must be something.

It's like you have split yourself into two personalities there. You can have sex OR be emotionally intimate

That's so accurate! I've often felt like I can have a really close 'friendship' with someone or sex but I've never successfully combined the two.

Once there are feelings involved, that's when I become completely overwhelmed by my sex anxieties.

It's silly. I know it makes no sense intellectually but to me, emotionally, it does. But I always feel that if someone spends time with me as a friend, they are doing so freely and of their own choice. If someone comes back for sex again it's because they want to. Whereas, in a relationship, I feel like someone is spending time with me or whatever because they feel obliged to and my default position is that they don't really want to. It soluddlnly becomes really 'heavy' But I know, logically, that they still have a choice!

Would it be accurate to say that you are slightly suspicious of the motives or taste of someone who could possibly find you sexually attractive?

justilou1

Very accurate!

And more than slightly suspicious. I could never be duped by love bombing. The more interested in me someone seems, the quicker I get The Ick.

It's just been a recipe for disaster tbh.

You're very insightful!