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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

A sex one

171 replies

LivingDeadDoll · 12/02/2021 07:02

I'm in my mid 40s and have never had a good relationship.

I lost my virginity at 19 but didn't really have a lot of sex. Most of the sex I had was drunken, missionary and a bit dull. I was raped twice before 21 which really put me off sex and I became fearful of it although I didn't realise that at the time really.

I married a man who was a virgin. We married because we were best friends not because we fancied or romantically loved each other. We had sex a few times in the early days but he was very inexperienced and there was no passion. We were together for 12 long, dull, sexless years.

After him, I decided I was going to have a bit of a personal sexual revolution but it didn't really work put that way. I've probably had sex with 8 men in the last 10 years. First, was a fuck buddy and that was the first time I'd even shared a bath with someone - I was 38. After that, I met men who really only wanted to do missionary - roll on, grunt a few times, roll off. Or had ED and so preferred hand jobs or bjs.

In late 2019, I started dating a man who was very sexual. I was so unbelievably attracted to him but my past all came back to haunt me and sex was a disaster. I was hugely intimidated by his experience and I felt woefully inadequate which made me really withdrawn sexually. I realised that I'm not very good with the spontaneous aspect of sex and I need there to be a lot of communication around it - what's going to be done, how etc. I told him about my past and how there are certain positions I find really triggering. He was incredibly understanding but I think it made him a bit fearful of initiating and upsetting me and he started waiting for me to do so. This, in turn, knocked my confidence further and I felt like he had gone off me sexually so I didn't really and, 5 months ago, I ended it.

There is obviously a lot of care and affection still there. For the first few weeks after breaking up, we saw each other only as friends. As Christmas approached, we became a lot closer. No sex or even hints at it but we spent about 3 months taking it slowly and getting to know each other again without the pressure of a label or expectations. We flirted and become a lot closer emotionally. A couple of weeks ago we had sex. It was really nice but I still had anxious feelings around it. We've seen each other about 3 times since. Had sex on one other occasion but the other times not. There's no expectation of sex and he is really respectful when we do.

I suppose none of it is simple in my head. I want an exciting and interesting sex life within a loving relationship but I'm plagued with feelings of inadequacy and the knowledge that, whatever we do, he'll have memories of doing similar with other women who were younger, slimmer, more confident and better skilled than me. I don't want him to feel he's having to 'teach' me and I'd feel small and insecure and stupid if he did. Although he's nothing other than kind and caring.

I feel big and awkward having sex. I'm torn between trying to sort this out and just accepting that I'm approaching 50 in the next few years and that sex and relationships are just something I need to accept isn't going to happen for me and put it in the past.

OP posts:
LivingDeadDoll · 24/02/2021 18:45

She doesn't believe we're just friends. She said it's a very funny friendship given how much time we spend together and how much he's helped over the past couple of weeks.

She said it's not how people usually behave when they break up...

She might have a point.

OP posts:
justilou1 · 24/02/2021 22:28

I rest my case

Babdoc · 25/02/2021 09:09

This is like a modern version of a Jane Austen novel! Can I have the film rights, OP?!
Seriously, I hope you can overcome your reservations and listen to your feelings, and that the two of you have a long and happy future. Best wishes.

LivingDeadDoll · 28/02/2021 19:23

I just wanted to come back to this.

The last few days have been manic because of the house move. I was supposed to be seeing him last night but was so overwhelmed by everything, I postponed and got an early night instead.

He's coming over on Tuesday.

I've had a lot of time to think over the past few days and I'd really like to talk to him about this asap. I don't want to start my new life in my new home with any negativity or uncertainty. That's really important to me.

Do you think Tuesday would be a good time to try and address this? Or will it appear to be 'too soon'?

OP posts:
justilou1 · 28/02/2021 20:39

I would cook or order in a lovely dinner and have some nice wine as a thank you for all the help (manners!) and see if that helps the conversation flow naturally into “I think we’re more than just friends...” I would avoid the old “Where is this going?” Question as it puts all the pressure on him to admit to the feels and have all the answers.

Anna12345678910 · 28/02/2021 20:58

You can do relationships, you are having one with him. He sounds lovely and happy to take it slowly.

Don't be hard on yourself, you can do this, at your speed. He is making live with you. Don't worry about past sexual experiences hd has had. He is with you because he wants to be.
Believe in yourself and good luck Flowers

yaboo · 01/03/2021 00:48

I don't reckon current porn and modern sex manuals are all that hot: they're a bit scary, sometimes, and a bit... clinical. I do though, recommend these three texts, for people who find themselves feeling a bit clueless. Not just for 'positions', or 'techniques', as other posters say, each new partner is a learning curve, what works with one person doesn't float the boat of another, etc, but for feeling a bit... freer.

I think you should have a look at 'the kama sutra', the joy of sex (the 1970's version- the modern one is a bit more 'swinging from the chandeliers)', and 'the perfumed garden'.

indohistory.com/kamasutra.html
from here there's links to the kama sutra online. This was written, not as a sex manual, but more of a hindu 'holy' text, around the 5th century. Again, it's laughable in parts, but it's actually pretty cool in how it talks about honesty, and consideration being a good part of a good sex life. (imho).

www.sacred-texts.com/sex/garden/
this is an online copy of 'the perfumed garden'. It seems... a little odd, this 15th century sex manual, written by a muslim dude, but it's quaintly funny, and there's all kinds of funny stuff in it (if you've got a sense of humour).

the joy of sex (1970's version) is all big hairy pussies and skinny chaps with beards that look like geography teachers. Nobody looks like a porn star, its mostly very gentle and soft focus and... romantic? You can watch excerpts on Youtube.

The takeaway of all this is, I reckon... that sex between two consenting adults, where both of them are willing to give and receive mutual pleasure, is a great thing to enjoy, and if you want to skill up a bit, you can.

enjoy!

mrsplum2015 · 01/03/2021 00:55

Wow I've found this so useful

I was with my ex h for years and the sex was good physically but not particularly adventurous and the emotional connection wasn't there. He was quite sexually repressed and I didn't know how to change that so we didn't have what I consider sexual intimacy. Not much talking during sex etc.

I met someone else after separating and he was the opposite. Very open and into all different things but he couldn't always get hard or cum when having sex which really worried me. I also knew his relationship with his ex was very active and adventurous and I always felt like I didn't live up to her.

I somehow had the strength to end it due to that and other reasons ( he was very complex and there were lots of behaviours that could have become abusive ) and I very quickly met another man. A lot older than me but we have loads in common and we met through a friend. We had a few weeks of just friends but seeing each other a couple of times a week. Then one night I asked him to stay and we had sex; no conversation before that and it just naturally spontaneously happened which was a first for me.

He has told me how much he loves sex with me (only done it three times so far) and he is clearly very into it and in the moment, as am I. He talks dirty to me in a loving and respectful way and that really turns me on.

He also isn't all over me physically or talking about sex and what he wants all the time which takes some of the pressure off.

I have worked out that for me the emotional and intellectual connection makes me really horny and safe in what I know I'm good at, conversation and being a friend, and the sexual chemistry follows from that.

I am really scared about it and want to take it slowly and I also need to have a conversation with him that my lack of engagement is just because I'm scared not because I don't like him or want to be with him. I feel scared to say much incase I sound stupid and I don't want to suggest anything or take the lead incase I get it wrong.

But I feel like he will allow space for me to develop confidence and will be encouraging and supportive. It's the balance of me engaging with him but being sure in myself so that I don't become codependent.

Keep updating us as I hope we can learn from each other .

LivingDeadDoll · 01/03/2021 05:58

@justilou1

I would cook or order in a lovely dinner and have some nice wine as a thank you for all the help (manners!) and see if that helps the conversation flow naturally into “I think we’re more than just friends...” I would avoid the old “Where is this going?” Question as it puts all the pressure on him to admit to the feels and have all the answers.
I like that idea. I don't like "where is this going?" question for the reasons you say.

It just feels at the moment that we're happily trundling down the same road but at some point, we're going to reach a junction and I don't want to find out then that we're heading in different directions.

OP posts:
LivingDeadDoll · 01/03/2021 06:06

Anna12345678910

I see what you mean. It is a relationship in the sense that all interactions are relationships but what type of relationship is it? That's the question. At the moment we're more than friends but not anything else.

I suppose all I want to know is whether we're taking it slowly but with the potential to be more than we are or whether he's happy with a friendship, some closeness and occasional sex but, at some point, will be on the lookout for a relationship with someone else.

I wouldn't he hurt or upset, at this point, if he was just interested in something casual during lockdown in the absence of anything else. It's not what i want but I could understand that in the current climate. I wouldn't think he was an awful person or that I'd been taken advantage of at his stage.

OP posts:
LivingDeadDoll · 01/03/2021 06:25

Anna12345678910

Thank you for the suggestions.

I think part of it is that because of my total lack of experience, it's not even that i have skills or techniques that might work for one person but not another. I don't really have any! So, sorry for TMI, he likes bjs in a very different way to the last man I was with. But it was easy enough to adapt and tweak the skillset because I had something to work with/from. When all you've had to do is lie there whilst someone pumps away for 5 mins, you don't develop any skills or ideas that can be tweaked. There's literally nothing there.

I don't even have a list of things i can try or work through. And I don't feel sexually attractive because of it so I'd just feel a bit stupid even trying even if i had stuff to try.

I'm sitting in my kitchen, surrounded by boxes, and not even sure I'm in a place to start a relationship at this moment. There's too much to sort. I really do just want to know whether this is casual, fun but ultimately meaningless to him or has the potential to be more because I don't want to waste my time on a casual fling!

OP posts:
LivingDeadDoll · 01/03/2021 06:53

I am really scared about it and want to take it slowly and I also need to have a conversation with him that my lack of engagement is just because I'm scared not because I don't like him or want to be with him. I feel scared to say much incase I sound stupid and I don't want to suggest anything or take the lead incase I get it wrong.

Yes, I can understand all of this.

I think I'm at a point of thinking, if I mess it up by talking about it, it wasn't right in the first place.

I often see it said on here that, if a man wants to be with you he'll let you know.

But that is treating all men as a homogenous group and if women are all different there is no reason men shouldn't be either!

I also think that sometimes they are letting us know where they stand (whatever their position) but that doesn't mean we will read it like that.

I think we need to not worry about looking stupid. I'd be happy for what I'm having to stop if it isnt what I'm looking for. Or is what i really don't want.

I suppose i can sum my situation up like this.

I spoke to a friend last night who started seeing someone during lockdown 1. They are now living together (!) I haven't met his partner yet. I've invited them round for a cup of tea in the garden when it is allowed... if this man and i are casual and nothing more, then I wouldn't invite him along. If we are 'together', or have the potential to be, then I would.

OP posts:
justilou1 · 01/03/2021 08:32

When you truly begin a loving, lasting relationship with ANYONE, you have to learn lots of new skill sets, from how they have their tea, to what their favourite food is, etc.... It’s all part of caring and nurturing. That is the difference between simply getting your rocks off and genuinely caring for their well-being. It’s not just you.... It’s normal. Breathe.....

justilou1 · 01/03/2021 08:33

Btw..... finding all these sexy things out doesn’t have to be serious... it can be silly and funny, too.

mrsplum2015 · 01/03/2021 12:20

Yes me and my new partner laughed when we both orgasmed together when having sex the third time, like it was a relief but we felt connected and happy too..

And I feel comfortable that we are connected and he wants to be with me which is different to how it's been for me before....

And we cuddle and talk after like it's just a continuation of where we are with each other.

But I still don't want to feel stupid in the moment even if it does show we're not right together. I've sent a couple of texts about how good it feels even though I can't say it in the moment and he responds really appropriately so I think it's just slow and step by step..:

SoulofanAggron · 01/03/2021 12:55

I really do just want to know whether this is casual, fun but ultimately meaningless to him or has the potential to be more because I don't want to waste my time on a casual fling!

Then if you ask him and he says it's just casual, you've lost nothing of significant worth because that's not what you want. So you might as well ask him.

LivingDeadDoll · 01/03/2021 15:02

That is the difference between simply getting your rocks off and genuinely caring for their well-being

Yes. I think i can see that. I think it also goes to show just that I've never had a genuinely caring relationship too 😕

Then if you ask him and he says it's just casual, you've lost nothing of significant worth because that's not what you want. So you might as well ask him.

I think i came to that realisation myself this morning.

Whether he's interested in a relationship or not, this week or 2 months time isn't going to make any difference.

OP posts:
justilou1 · 02/03/2021 01:10

Well, the fact is, at the moment, you have a really good friend. That's not a bad thing. (I don't think that's all there is, but if I'm wrong, that's okay too. - If I'm wrong, I'll feel terrible for leading you on like this, though!)
He obviously feels safe and secure with you, too. The last thing I would do is make a big deal of this conversation. I would keep it light and funny. Maybe have a glass of wine or two more than you normally would and hold the eye contact for slightly longer than you normally would and just look at his lips and see where it goes. Maybe you don't need to talk to get it going at all. Then simply say, "I've missed us..."

LivingDeadDoll · 02/03/2021 05:44

You're right. I do have a good friend right now. I don't want to spoil it and I don't really want any assurances beyond it not being a fwb or casual.

I don't want a deep and meaningful conversation.

I don't feel I've been led on - you've responded to what I've said. If you're wrong, then I'm wrong too! If it turns out he wants something different to me then so be it 🤷🏻‍♀️ Its been nice having somewhere to process my thoughts.

Although I'm not sure tonight is the right time to say anything now. He's just been offered a new job over the weekend and I know that's on his mind. He hasn't got a start date yet but he's started training for it so his head is going to he a bit up in the air now too. I don't suppose he's got the headspace to think about much else.

I'm still surrounded by boxes...

Maybe we'll just have a lovely evening and I'll leave the conversation for another day...

OP posts:
justilou1 · 02/03/2021 09:45

Is his job nearby or is it far away? That could make a big difference!

LivingDeadDoll · 02/03/2021 11:53

Local. Although, It's online and home based and looks set to continue to be so for a while yet!

OP posts:
justilou1 · 02/03/2021 13:34

Well, that's not going to get in the way at all, then... In fact, I suspect that's more of a pro than a con. You can even use that as something to celebrate. You can thank him and let him know how proud you are of him for getting this job. He's invested a lot of time into you lately and time's bloody precious. I think it's telling.

justilou1 · 02/03/2021 13:35

Good luck, btw. I know we're not supposed to be putting pressure on you or anything.... Shit. Sorry! He just sounds like a lovely man.

LivingDeadDoll · 02/03/2021 13:57

Thank you. Well, we're using tonight as a bit of a celebration - his new job and my new home.

I've thanked him a hundred times over for his help and told him I couldn't have done it without him - which is true.

I know he's anxious about starting the job though which is also why I'm not sure tonight is a good time to say anything. I'm not sue he'll have the headspace for amything else and, knowing him as I do, I think his response would be something along the lines of seeing how things are when we've both settled in.

He's very cautious and a bit (lot!) risk averse so I'm not sure a leap of faith is within him at the moment!

I did tell him when he got it that I was having a really good feeling about this year so far...

OP posts:
justilou1 · 02/03/2021 16:07

Ah well.... I'm sure you'll do what feels right!