Am I expecting too much or is this the norm...

[Oldbutnew]

I'm 45 and divorced with teens.
Been dating a guy also divorced with younger dc for 18 months.
We haven't met children or families yet. Lockdown has pretty much meant our relationship has just been the two of us hanging out in each other's homes when we are childfree.
I saw him a lot last year, every couple of days for 2 days at a time or a whole weekend but he's asked me for some space and that we see each other every 3 or 4 days instead for an evening together and over night stay.
I was gutted.
He says it's not me he just needs some time to himself after the kids have gone.
I want to believe that but he's also texting and messaging me in the gap between us seeing each other much less. Good morning texts are rarely sent by him first anymore and he takes a while to respond to mine. We used to chat on and off throughout the evening and dont do that now either.
Ive made my feelings quite clear, I love him but I'm worried I'm either being taken for granted or hes just not into me anymore.
I feel so sick and anxious all the time, I'm just living day to day till the next time I see him.
Is seeing each other this amount after 18 months ok ?
Should I try and back off ?
The other day we were cuddling and I told him he had become my best friend, he hugged me back and said what a lovely thing to say but didnt say it back...

I can relate to how you're feeling to a certain extent @Oldbutnew as I've been with my boyfriend 8 months and still struggle with the all or nothing nature of having kids (50 50) and then seeing him. I've said to him I feel single when we're not actually together, but he has said he sees it very differently and feels we are always a couple. I would also feel anxious if he didn't message all evening although he responds to messages very quickly. Actually right now though I'm struggling more with lockdown and juggling everything, and am considering saying I want the first evening without my kids to myself... But I'm also feeling a bit bored with our relationship

After 18 months for it to still be causing you this level of anxiety though, suggests it isn't the right relationship. I'm sorry as for how to address your issues around insecurity, I highly recommend therapy. Post marriage with kids life can suck, never mind in a pandemic. I hope you're okay

@Eckhart

There isn't a norm, OP. You're looking for some external set of rules to guide you as to whether it's right to feel the way you do.

It is ALWAYS right to feel the way you do, however you feel. Your feelings aren't things that need to obey rules. They are the rulebook you're looking for.

Stop analysing whether your feelings are right or wrong. There is no such thing as needy. You are the right amount of needy for you. That's how needy you are. More than some people, and less than other people. Allow your feelings to dictate the way. You are feeling neglected, sidelined, sick, anxious and preoccupied with these negative feelings, and yet all of your thinking is about how best to accommodate what he needs.

WHAT ABOUT YOUR NEEDS? He is not meeting them. You are not feeling emotionally close enough with him to talk to him about the fact that he's not meeting them. You are considering changing your own behaviour and putting yourself in the wrong because he is not meeting your needs.

Don't try to alter feelings to fit in with with how people want their relationship with you to be. Choose your people to fit in with making sure your needs are met. Choose people you feel great with, people who make you feel the best you can be, people who boost your confidence and make you laugh and cherish your feelings, even the tough ones.

Change your script. There's no such thing as normal. There's no rule book about what a relationship is meant to look like. You make the rules; it's your life. You are in charge of looking after your feelings, so get into the driver's seat and take responsibility. Tell him he's not meeting your needs. If he steps up, great. If he doesn't, walk, and find somebody who is interested in giving you what you need to be happy and fulfilled, and feel emotionally safe.

This. With bells on

@Oldbutnew

I don't think I'm harrassing him. I dont text him all day, every day. I do respond to his texts and I do send a morning text if he hasnt . We text good morning then often nothing all day, then a few late night , then goodnight. He never phones me, he says he hates the phone. I called him last week without texting first and he did admit he thought I was checking up on him, but I just missed him ..

When he asked for more space and for a few evenings on his own, I told him I understand and thats whats been happening.
I don't voice my paranoia or my neediness to him, it stays with me like a wretched ball in the pit of my stomach on the days I dont see him.
When I'm with him I try really hard to be breezy and relaxed, but I'm actually anxious and sad.
I can't help taking him not wanting to see me as a personal rejection.

I am sorry and I don't mean to hurt your feelings but I don't think this relationship is the one for you. Sorry OP.

You say you love him - has he ever said that to you?

Is there anything you can start (lockdown wont make it easy I know) to occupy your time? A new hobby? Buy some books? Crafting? Anything to fill up your head and replace the paranoid thoughts.

@christmasfluff who wrote this

Ironically, when you pull away by ending it, as I think you should, he will come running. By pulling away, you become 'safe' for an avoidant

Its so true.. Although I'm in the same boat op and ended things as was told I was being irrational for wanting to progress after 4 years. He so wanted to so baffled and upset me. As someone else saod its either not for him or his past is kicking in. Life is short and his comment of maybe in 10.years would have done it for me (and I'm v patient and easygoing)

Also he ‘needs time to figure out his feelings’ - are you to be updated after this statement or has he just left that hanging? Op I know it hurts and I’m the same situation so I know it hurts so much but like others above said what do you need? Put yourself first and if it’s mainly making you anxious and neglected I would tell him it’s not working for you and wish him the best. I’m not saying that lightly I know how hurtful it is to realise this but your self esteem will just go down and down changing yourself for his needs only.

Yes the ‘maybe in 10 years’ an ex said that to me, it was always ‘maybe in 5 years’ etc I wish I had woken up! He ended up leaving for somebody else! So I am wary of this oh maybe see how I feel in 10 years or whatever. How do you feel. It will hurt to end it but you will be better in the long run op.

Hmm...I kind of wonder whether there's an element of telling ourselves that men who are interested, who are 'keepers' do X and Y, be that always messaging first, or messaging constantly all evening, or giving decorations of love, looking to move in together or whatever.

I think all I'd say is that there isn't one way to be, there isn't just one kind of good relationship. Some people want/ need constant contact. Others are happy with something less intense; in my case I've been with my DP for 7 years, we don't live together although we will in a few years when my DC have left home (it was too difficult logistically to live together before then). We see each other every 10-14 days (as we live 200 miles apart) and although I enjoy the time we spend together, I also like my time alone to get jobs done, to just enjoy my own company. When he's not here we speak about once every 3-4 days and rarely text in between unless there's something important or urgent that comes up.

There's nothing 'wrong' about the OPs oartner wanting space and time on his own, not texting her all the time or maintaining that high level of contact. It doesn't automatically mean he's uninterested or detaching. However just as this may be what he wants, clearly the OP wants a relationship to look rather different. She isn't wrong either, but it does mean they are incompatible, and probably need to call the relationship a day.

That’s the thing if you’re both happy with it (contact level) you have a good foundation and don’t get these off feelings.

I think it's making you too unhappy to stay

if you love someone you want to be with them as much as possible

Woah! This jumped out at me. That's a big hell nope from me. It screams insecurity. I've always needed "me time" in any relationship and I think a lot of people are the same, including your Dp. Even when I'm crazy about someone, I don't want to spend ALL my time with them! I need time for me, my friends, my own interests. At least then I'll have stuff to talk about when I do see them!

If you need more, he's maybe not the one for you. Neither of you are "wrong" just not on the same page. I don't think there's anything wrong in him needing some time to himself at all.

It does seem to be fizzing out, id consider a plan b, for if it goes pear shaped.

you sound very needy and clingy to him, which is what some people like in a relationship but he doesn’t seem to one of those people

He is not that keen on you. His interest has waned.

Op I got what you meant about the wanting to spend more time together, it kind of kicks up a gear as you go along and your lives intertwine a little more not that you want to spend every minute together.

“Plus hours go by without messaging which i really struggle with.”

You see, before the days of mobile phones and texting, if you didn’t live together, you didn’t stay in contact via text. You went about your day and didn’t angst because he hadn’t replied to your ‘good morning’ text...or you went about your day without feeling obliged to tap out a ‘good morning’ in return.

I think for the most part, texting adds an extra layer of miscommunication, expectation and inevitably disappointment.

Bigger picture, I think he’s looking for something less intense or committed than you want.

Which I understand, but I can't get over the niggling feeling that if you love someone you want to be with them as much as possible
No, that's not the case. I would feel suffocated by bring with my OH all the time. Thankfully, he feels just the same.

He might live you as much as you do but doesn't need to be as much in your presence as you do. Sadly, if your needs for independence are very different, it is indeed unlikely to work out. He'll suffocate which will lead to anger and resentment and you'll feel unloved and resentful too.

He may even be creating distance because it’s too much for him.

This is not your cue to become what he wants you to be...it’s your cue to save it for someone who wants the same thing as you.

For whatever reason your needs are not in alignment, you have your needs which are perfectly normal for you and he has his.
There’s not much you can do about it really without one of you going against what you want, which leads to one of you being unhappy. In this case it’s you that is unhappy so the ball is in your court.

@Hawkins001

It does seem to be fizzing out, id consider a plan b, for if it goes pear shaped.

It has gone pear shaped. OP feels awful, all the time.

I think right now you have a mismatch in needs. People are different, i’d hate to have no time to myself and to feel if I had a break of mere hours without text contact the person I was seeing would feel sad and anxious and upset. That would make me feel pressured, stifled and guilty and then eventually resentful.

OTOH it’s not wrong to want to spend loads of time with someone and to have needs for very regular contact. But it does mean one or both of you are not having the relationship that they want.

So either it is a case of finding a middle ground you can both be happy with or accepting this is not going to work because your needs don’t align enough with each other.

He's basically said he's not on the same page as you are now, but might be in a decade.

OP you need to stop being passive and take control of your life and responsibility for your feelings.

Your comment re wanting to spend "as much time as possible" with someone feels totally smothering to me and many other posters. BUT that's how you feel. He doesn't. Neither is right or wrong, but you are incompatible.

This relationship is now an unhappy one. You're anxious about it all the time, the interest balance is off, you're more invested, he's more put off, you are craving reassurance, he is craving space...

You need to really consider the fact that being incompatible in these ways means the relationship is not going to be a healthy, happy one for you. Can you see that?

I think he's being quite cruel.
He's definitely backing off but he's keeping you dangling to suit his own needs.
You sound worryingly anxious which you really wouldn't be if you were with the right person.

You know this is wrong but your heart's got to catch up with your head.

I think you do need to have a chat about how he sees things going forward - what is he looking for ? To continue to live separately ? To move in together ? This will give you the answers . If his don't match with what you want then time to move on . The older I have got the more I ask the questions as I spent too long not asking .

You are anxious because he has made you feel anxious. He's told you he needs to consider his feelings for you. And that he is on a different page about wanting to live together etc.

You aren't being needy. Or unreasonable. You are reacting to him telling you he isn't sure about your relationship.

Please read Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl.

And don't think it's wasted because you have invested 18 months in this relationship. It would be wasted if you continued to waste time in a relationship that isn't making you happy.

OP, if you're with him/talking to him all the time, how are you going to give him the chance to miss you?

Occupy yourself more when you're apart, so you're not just sitting around waiting for him to get in touch. It'll be worth it!