Why does this happen? Would like to hear from any men too.

[ColdInTheUtility]

I'm late 30s. I've a friend who is the same age as me. Physically, we're very different - she's 5'8, blonde and a size 20. I'm 5'3, brunette and a size 12. We're both single.

We were discussing our relationship histories recently and she was surprised that every man I've dated has either commented negatively on my weight/size directly or made it clear that they prefer slim women - hence being single! Whereas she has never had that.

She is very popular with men and is never short of male attention. Her last boyfriend adored her. Pre-covid, she found plenty of lovers online and in real life etc and not one has ever said anything other than they love her curves, love her body etc. Not one man she has been involved with (either in a relationship or casually) has ever made a negative comment about her body.

We were both bit surprised that our experiences are so different and couldn'treally explain it..

I'd say that we're quite similar in terms of confidence generally and life experiences and she is more outgoing than I am. But neither of us can explain this vastly different experience when it comes to men so we thought we'd seek the wisdom of mumsnet.

Like i said, it was just a group of friends. We didnt ever discuss weight or diets generally but a few of them were discussing it because one of them had lost some weight and was lamenting the fact that she no longer had a waist postmenopause.

Everyone was commenting on themselves and what their long term partners thought about their own bodily changes which was obviously not something I could participate in - general consensus was that they didn't care.

I said very little other than to confirm that they all looked great. Because they because and still do!

A comment was made about the shape of my bum (it's quite round and I'm still curvy even when I'm slim) and my small (and it is small) tummy. I can't remember what was said exactly but it was along the lines of I shouldn't worry about it. Which made me feel that perhaps they thought I should because why would they mention it otherwise? No one said I shouldn't worry about the length of my hair or the size of my feet!

I never invite comments about my body or discuss it in front of others in real life. Ever.

I never invite comments about my body or discuss it in front of others in real life. Ever.

I don't want to hear what they have to say because it's never nice in my experience and I don't expect compliments. I'd rather just not hear it and pretend they haven't noticed all the things they think are unattractive about me!

I had another female friend who I no longer see who would constantly tell me I had a big bum. Not directly as such but, when she was giving me examples of people being unkind or being a dick or just unnecessary etc, "It would be like saying, "Cold, you have a really big bum,"" and similar was the example she'd use

Another man here.

PositiveLife nailed it I think. Men in search of the sort of 'ideal' (impossible) photoshopped FHM/Playboy/Babe bodytype are on a hiding to nothing. Always have been. Victorian art critic and classicist John Ruskin famously fled his bedroom on his wedding night on discovering his wife had pubic hair and, naked, looked nothing like the statues of Greek and Roman goddesses he adored.

TheSandman

How have men come to have such impossible standards then that a normal size 10/12 woman is unacceptable to them to the point where they feel the need to criticise?

Tbh, someone running from the bedroom because I didnt look like a playboy centrefold would just make me think "what a dick".

And would be preferable to the 'helpful' chipping away at me.

@ColdInTheUtility

TheSandman

How have men come to have such impossible standards then that a normal size 10/12 woman is unacceptable to them to the point where they feel the need to criticise?

Tbh, someone running from the bedroom because I didnt look like a playboy centrefold would just make me think "what a dick".

And would be preferable to the 'helpful' chipping away at me.

No idea and personally I find it baffling - blame Hollywood, blame the porn industry, blame the fashion/make up/diet industries who make shedloads of money feeding the pursuit of unachievable ideals.

I have a male friend who said the ‘sexiest’ or most attractive thing he’d seen which is his ideal, is the scenes in Game of Thrones where Daenerys is with Khal Drogo (sorry if you’ve not seen this) she’s apparently’curvy’ which actually means the actress is a size 8 and about 5ft3 but has boobs, and is lay there completely naked except for some bits for leather, completely submissive lay on a pile of rustic furs on the floor - I thought well you won’t really achieve that ideal will you unless you find a woman in her late teens/early twenties with waist length hair, wearing leather and decide to live in a canvas tent with an open fire and fur rugs, it’s not going to be the same on your ikea bed in a a dingy northern terrace ! Probably doesn’t even occur to him ... again he is single 😫

OP, I'm only a little larger than you at size 12/14 but a few inches taller so the overall effect is probably similar. I am far from attractive and have quite a few bodily flaws I can see objectively: fat thighs (hidden under the style of clothing I wear), cellulite, saggy bum & boobs, bit of a belly. I unquestionably look better dressed than naked when considered on the scale of 'perfect' bodies.

I have never had the experience you've had. I've never had a guy be anything other than complimentary about my body, whether that be a LTR, a OLD random or a FWB, and whether I've been an 8 or a 16 (and I've been both). So I don't think it's quite as simple as being close enough to that 'perfect' size or range that they feel they can be critical and then you'll make it, especially as you now say it happens with women too.

So you're either attracting the wrong type of man, as mentioned, or it's maybe something about the way you're coming across. Maybe you don't project the confidence you think you feel about your body? You've obviously remembered every negative comment ever made to be able to reel off so many, so perhaps you are more self-conscious/focussed on your body than you think you are or want to be, and so perhaps are coming over as more vain than you really are. I say I've never had your experience but it would be more accurate to say if I have had anyone make a similar comment, I honestly can't remember because I have no need to give it headspace. I have my physical flaws but I'm actually confident in myself beyond that and I go into new relationships with the mindset of "this guy would be damned lucky if he gets to see me naked" and it seems to become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The other thing, and I'll try to articulate this tactfully, is that you probably think you've been very complimentary about your friend but if you take a step back, some of the things you've said have something of a judgmental inference: she's indiscriminate in her partners, "always has a man on the go" which is too often a mealy-mouthed euphemism for "I think she's a bit of a 'slut'"; she wears tight clothes whereas you "take more care to suit your figure" or whatever the exact phrase was, which implies you think those clothes don't suit her / she shouldn't be wearing them. If you're making those kind of comments IRL then maybe the men you're with are picking up on that slightly snide tone and assume making comments about your appearance is equally fair game?

Self-fulfilling prophecy of they do seem to consider themselves lucky if it does get that far rather than automatically getting to see me naked, for clarity!

Well, if we're talking about males idolising fantasy females, Xena is mine. Though my chances of ever meeting... blah blah blah.

A lot of men find confidence attractive. Your friend exudes confidence and attracts men who like that and encourage it. I wonder if you initially present as being more demure and lacking in confidence than you really are and so attract men who are drawn to that and use the weight comments in a vain effort to knock your confidence down to the level they thought they were getting. At your size, the weight comments are a pretty obvious point of attack as a lot of women at that size would want to lose weight.

@TitOfTheIceberg

OP, I'm only a little larger than you at size 12/14 but a few inches taller so the overall effect is probably similar. I am far from attractive and have quite a few bodily flaws I can see objectively: fat thighs (hidden under the style of clothing I wear), cellulite, saggy bum & boobs, bit of a belly. I unquestionably look better dressed than naked when considered on the scale of 'perfect' bodies.

I have never had the experience you've had. I've never had a guy be anything other than complimentary about my body, whether that be a LTR, a OLD random or a FWB, and whether I've been an 8 or a 16 (and I've been both). So I don't think it's quite as simple as being close enough to that 'perfect' size or range that they feel they can be critical and then you'll make it, especially as you now say it happens with women too.

So you're either attracting the wrong type of man, as mentioned, or it's maybe something about the way you're coming across. Maybe you don't project the confidence you think you feel about your body? You've obviously remembered every negative comment ever made to be able to reel off so many, so perhaps you are more self-conscious/focussed on your body than you think you are or want to be, and so perhaps are coming over as more vain than you really are. I say I've never had your experience but it would be more accurate to say if I have had anyone make a similar comment, I honestly can't remember because I have no need to give it headspace. I have my physical flaws but I'm actually confident in myself beyond that and I go into new relationships with the mindset of "this guy would be damned lucky if he gets to see me naked" and it seems to become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The other thing, and I'll try to articulate this tactfully, is that you probably think you've been very complimentary about your friend but if you take a step back, some of the things you've said have something of a judgmental inference: she's indiscriminate in her partners, "always has a man on the go" which is too often a mealy-mouthed euphemism for "I think she's a bit of a 'slut'"; she wears tight clothes whereas you "take more care to suit your figure" or whatever the exact phrase was, which implies you think those clothes don't suit her / she shouldn't be wearing them. If you're making those kind of comments IRL then maybe the men you're with are picking up on that slightly snide tone and assume making comments about your appearance is equally fair game?

I really am uncomfortable with blaming women for what men say. This attitude of "if only women could watch what they say, or be a bit more nuanced in their talk, lest a man should overhear her and judge her for it".

Really?

There is so much negging about that it seems that a lot of men in the "standard dating pool" are coining onto it as a technique. I think its also to do with online dating. Admittedly I had to come off OLD after 3 weeks as it was dire, but I couldn't believe some of the comments I got. Those men would literally ask for a "full length pic" and naively, I would send it, like in jeans or a jumper or something, and then they would make some stupid comment that they obviously thought was complimentary about your body, like "You're slim but with curves in the right places". I'm a size 8-10. I honestly find it cringeworthy and really off-putting when a total stranger makes these kind of comments about your shape. Worse still is when the men themselves aren't exactly super-attractive, but I think OLD gives them some idea of perfection that they think they're entitled to. (I'm trying to imagine if I made equally judgmental comments about them - "Bit thick round the calves, aren't you? "Bit of a blobby face going on there?"

I can only assume that there are enough women out there who don't tell them to piss off, but the OP doesn't sound like one of them. But this is very much mainstream dating now. These men use the word "thicc" to describe any woman who isn't skinny, and aren't afraid of using it.

TitOfTheIceberg

That's a rather disingenuous interpretation of what I said about my friend. I havent said anything about her that she doesnt say about herself. I love her, there's no judgement.

The other thing, and I'll try to articulate this tactfully, is that you probably think you've been very complimentary about your friend but if you take a step back, some of the things you've said have something of a judgmental inference: she's indiscriminate in her partners, "always has a man on the go" which is too often a mealy-mouthed euphemism for "I think she's a bit of a 'slut'";

You're definitely projecting there! I don't think she's a bit of a slut!! She's an independent, single woman who enjoys sex. If anything, I quite admire and envy her attitude towards it. I'm a bit more reserved and she's not. She's different to me but i attach no value judgement to that.

she wears tight clothes whereas you "take more care to suit your figure" or whatever the exact phrase was, which implies you think those clothes don't suit her / she shouldn't be wearing them

You inferred that. I didn't imply it. She looks great and if she likes something she'll wear it because she feels good wearing stuff she loves. Whereas I agonise over whether it suits my body shape. And whether people will be thinking horrible things about me in it. She doesnt give a shit and says that if someone wants to think badly of her, they can fuck off.

@crochetmonkey74

I think this thread is becoming reductive of larger women, that we are a fetish or a specialised attraction. Lots of women are size 16 or above. It's really not the niche that some people suggest. Theres kind of a nastiness implied as well, that the criticism should be the other way round, ( surely the fat woman should have the body comments?)
hmm

My thoughts exactly! As for those suggesting that a size 12 is on the large side when it is below average...
OP, I’m currently a 14-16 but I’ve been a 22 at my largest and an 8 at my smallest. I’ve never been short of male attention or had anything other than positive comments about my body from men. It’s definitely the men you are dating.

Ok, do this. Go on IG, do a search for thicc, curvy etc and click on a few random profiles. You will find extremely plump women there with thousands of followers and men of all ages simping for them like fools. Why? Men love meat, some men love a lot of it. There are men everywhere that go crazy for it, the bigger the better. Google feeders and bbw. A lot of these women are, yes, very large, but beautiful too, and know how to carry themselves, act with tons of confidence and have millions of men lusting after them like crazy. I have a look now and then when Im having a fat day or my confidence is wobbling, and seriously some are just stunning.
Chances are either your friend attracts the type of men who appreciate fuller figures, or simply her personality is really attractive and/ or she can engage men in ways that make them overlook any ( perceived) physical flaws.
On the other hand you seem bothered about this and maybe men can pick up on the vibe somehow? Hard to know without knowing you as a person, and the type of men around you. But just be assured there is nothing wrong with you, and your guy is out there somewhere. Maybe you are aiming for the wrong kind of men? Just a thought. Xx

@ColdInTheUtility

I had another female friend who I no longer see who would constantly tell me I had a big bum. Not directly as such but, when she was giving me examples of people being unkind or being a dick or just unnecessary etc, "It would be like saying, "Cold, you have a really big bum,"" and similar was the example she'd use

@ColdInTheUtility Passive aggressive much! Big bums are cool.

Also, if you have a dating bio, I think you should try saying that entitled men who want you to become size 8 need not apply! You don't have to have it on there forever, just give it a go.

Theres kind of a nastiness implied as well, that the criticism should be the other way round, ( surely the fat woman should have the body comments?)

That wasn't my intention when I started the thread

I was surprised that my friend doesnt experience any negativity not because I think it should be her not me but because I'd have expected it to be equally meted out. Also, to be frank (and she has said the same), if men are criticising my body when I'm only carrying a few extra pounds, why are they not criticising her when she is carrying a few extra stone?

I think the comments that suggested that men can see immediately that she isnt 'slim' and, if that is important to them, they won't approach her whereas they might not realise someone who appears to be 'slim' might still have lumps and bumps and cellulite and pudgy bits is probably accurate. That's not about fetishising anyone it's just a possible explanation.

Passive aggressive much! Big bums are cool.

Only in the younger generations. People find attractive what they find attractive. A man isn't going to change what he finds attractive just because fashions have changed. I certainly wouldn't!

EarthSight

I don't do online dating. When I did, these men were the ones who made no reference to women's bodies in their profiles or were ones who, at the chatting stage, said they weren't bothered by things like that and were more interested in personality and connection.

I just feel like I'm not slim enough for the men who want a slim woman and not big enough for the men who want a larger one.

I'm sure most people must have things they don't like about their bodies which they may be sensitive about or at least aware of. It can't be a coincidence that every man you meet OP makes some sort of reference to your physical features. It must be something you are projecting.

Perhaps you are over interpreting the comments. As a teen I was very aware of my physical flaws and that led me to believe no one would find me attractive. But they did. In my twenties I realised that being confident in one's own attractions was the way to be successful in relationships.

I don't recall if anyone ever commented adversely on my body - probably, but I would have agreed with them. (I do remember mentioning to one LT boyfriend that I thought my breasts were too small. He didn't say they weren't but he said they were still a good handful and I liked that answer. ) I suppose I have never expected a man to worship my body and suggest it was perfect, it was enough that they found me attractive and we got on well.

I wonder if your expectations are too high and you are too focused on your own view of your body. As a PP says, what's wrong with someone asking why you don't wear jeans? Most people do. You can say you don't like them or they don't suit you, so what? I remember a woman I knew saying the latter about herself and being surprised as I couldn't see any reason why this would have been the case. But that's how she felt and there's no law that says you have to wear jeans.

It's all very well being aware of what you call red flags but I cant help feeling your focus is wrong. I presume you aren't relaxed with someone new, as it sounds like you're waiting for your body to be criticised. Why not focus on your feelings and what you like about them? Act confident and it will be attractive. To me ugly men can be attractive when they're confident and good looking men can seem unattractive when they are not - surely it's the same for a man in respect to a woman?

I never discuss my body with anyone. I never criticise myself. I'll 'happily' walk around naked, have sex with the lights on etc. Im very relaxed with someone new and don't try and hide or disguise any part of me. Or, at least, this used to be the case because I believed the whole confidence is attractive thing. It came as a real shock to me to find it wasn't true. It's becoming worse as I'm getting older and the men I date are getting older. I don't project anything.

The jeans comment was part of a wider set of comments that he made. It was a problem precisely because it appeared to be such an innocuous comment that was part of a series of similar 'innocuous comments' that were never enough on their own for me to address. After all, as you said, what's wrong with someone asking why I don't wear jeans and why even mention it? It's not compulsory... it's not the individual question that's the issue so much as the motivation behind it. It's the bigger picture.

I haven't found confidence to be attractive to men. The last man I dated does prefer slimmer women. He didn't ever compliment me or touch me when I was naked other than sexually. He didn't find my body attractive and I knew that. I also knew he liked me as a person and thought I was pretty enough. There was one occasion when he said he was surprised that I wouldn't sing in front of him but I was happy to walk round naked in front of him. So, no, I'm not projecting or hugely self conscious. If someone finds ne unattractive, I'd rather know sooner than later.