Please hold my hand a bit longer - thread 2 -

[MoreLegsThanMe]

I’m so grateful for all the help and support on thread 1.

Please help me keep going, especially at night. I’m not strong enough on my own.

Thank you x as soon as the copy certificate arrives I’m issuing.

Another anniversary today - I think it’s three months now but I’m not entirely sure and I’m glad I feel like that.

I had a totally unexpected message from him today, along the lines of “I’ve said to DD4 and DS that when they are ready I’ll pick them up from school and take them to McDonalds. I was always a decent dad and can still be. I know I’ve hurt you and angered you but please don’t influence them or poison their minds. It will just be me and them going x”

Fucking McDonalds?

It still cuts to the bone to hear him accuse me if any influencing/poisoning. I told him in our last conversation they’d not want to see him and of course he thought that would only happen due to my pressure. I asked them both separately if they’d heard from him. DD4 snorted and said she wished she could tell him to just fuck off (normally I wouldn’t let her use language like that) and DS just laughed and said he didn’t care.

Neither replied to him and both say they don’t intend to.

I, of course, started composing numerous messages ranging from DD4’s suggestion, to asking him to leave me/us alone, right through to long passages about what he’s done and how he’s destroyed his whole family.

I didn’t send a reply but I don’t know - should I have?

Any contact from him still sends me into a panic. I hate myself for being so easily upset and I hate him for doing it.

I just wish this was all over.

x

Hi @MoreLegsThanMe - GRRRRRRRRRRRR these men do the dirty on their families and think the wife is behind the kids not wanting to see their fathers.

If he could get his head out of his arse he would realise his kids want no contact due to his vile behaviour along with seeing what this situation has done to you. 😡

You are doing brilliant with how you are getting on with life and your kids sound bloody amazing too

I have been through something quite similar and i recall receiving a message from him which implied that i would try to turn our adult children against him. I like you had actually encouraged the kids to retain contact but they didn't really bother much with him. Anyhow on receiving the message i couldn't help myself and replied giving him both barrels! Perhaps not my best moment but the release was liberating.
Sometimes they need the truth slammed home

Forgot to add I would NOT send a reply. He doesn't deserve it.

Glad you didn’t send a reply, but you need to let the kids know that they don’t HAVE to go with him
if they don’t want to. It’s their call!

I would. I'd say that poisoning your own children against their own father is something that you would never do and that any opinion they have of him is entirely their own and formed by their view of his behaviour. Or something like that. Polite, cold, factual.

Save your breath to cool your porridge. He's got his 'victim hat' on and nothing you say will make a difference. In fact, I'll bet he's dying for your response so he can send even more vitriol.

I'd only be concerned about him using words like 'influencing' or 'poisoning' if I was worried about a 'parental alienation' accusation to force residency. But I doubt very much if he or OW would want the chicks in their little love nest (Bleah!).

I've only just seen your latest updates but you are sounding so much stronger now than before! You've got this, you really have.

You could send a response but it would hurt him far more for you to keep radio silence.
Your silence is powerful and speaks far louder than any words.

He was the one who decided to exit stage left, don't invite him back onto the stage.

You're doing brill, sleep well with your clear concience.
x

When in doubt I'd tend to go for the option of saying nothing. You don't owe him a reply and you certainly don't owe him an explanation.

If, after thinking about it, you do choose to answer I'd make it a plain, brief statement that you have never influenced the DC against him and have no intention of doing so.

But he's not going to believe you because that would force him to admit the DC are estranged from him entirely because of his own appalling behaviour. And he doesn't like being the bad guy.

He is a low worm, isn't he? Trying to blame you and trying to bribe the DC with more junk food. As though that would make up for vanishing out of their lives without so much as a goodbye.

It will be over sooner than you think. A time will come when you'll just snort with derision at a message from him. Don't hate yourself because you're not there yet, because you will be in the end. You're doing marvellously.

Sleep tight, MoreLegs

Lots of men don't realise that leaving all the parenting up to Mum very much affects relationships as the DC grow. It's along the lines of if you listen and are present for the little things they will come to you with the big things. When Mum provides all or most of the practical and emotional elements to parenting there will always be many more reasons to be in contact than just for a chat as would be the case with an uninvolved Dad. Many Dad's don't realise this even without divorce until it is far too late - they rely on Mum to facilitate the relationship between Father and Child in a way that a mother would very rarely do. The result in separation is Dad doesn't really have a relationship with the DC at all but doesn't realise it. You reap what you sow springs to mind.

Is McDonalds supposed to be seen as a treat? It completely lacks any imagination or thought on STBEX's part and unless the DC are 5 they are very likely to see it as more of an insult. He could at least propose taking them for a proper meal out especially with outdoor eating now being allowed - that might even feel like something special just because it's been so long since anyone has been able to do it.

The panic will pass with the contact from him, it’s good actually that he ignored you all for so long as it allowed you to heal a bit, now you are stronger you are able to learn to handle this.

May I ask how old your youngest is? I think you mentioned GCSEs earlier in the thread, is he actually aware they even left primary school. Every contact attempt does not seem age appropriate. At 16 I certainly wouldn’t go to Macdonald’s with my parents unless we were on holiday.

I think you are right not to answer but if you do later, keep it short and to the point ‘our dc are old enough to make their own minds I can assure you I would never influence them either way’ then ignore any response.

I think he is possibly scared of you, when he’s wanted things he’s hiding behind texts rather than having the guts to talk.

Again, he’s passing the Bad Guy buck back to you. Absolutely projecting how he really feels about himself. Let him wallow.

@Justilou1

Again, he’s passing the Bad Guy buck back to you. Absolutely projecting how he really feels about himself. Let him wallow.

And most importantly the kids know this, he is not giving them credit for having the intelligence to form their own opinion. Which isn’t going to help him form a relationship in the long run.

And you’re right about Mc Donald’s being a treat he probably did with them occasionally when they were five years old. Is he going to buy them off with a Happy Meal and wonder why they eyeroll?

@G3ntlemanJ

I would. I'd say that poisoning your own children against their own father is something that you would never do and that any opinion they have of him is entirely their own and formed by their view of his behaviour. Or something like that. Polite, cold, factual.

This. I would respond - simply so that he is unable to produce the email as being undisputed and therefore true on a later occasion.

I think a cold factual reply could be appropriate, as pp have said, so that his email doesn't go unchallenged.
But in the end he will build his own version of what happened - starring him as the honorable good guy doing his best. The longer he is away from you, the more his version will diverge from yours/the truth.

OP youve been brilliant through all of this. I remember your early posts - read them back to see how far you've come!

What his message is really saying is "Im going to ask DD3 and 4 to come to Macdonalds with me and if they say no it wont be my fault for fucking off with the OW but your fault for being mean about me and turning them against me". He's already constructing a narrative to make himself feel better if DD say no - god forbid he should take responsibility!

I wouldnt dignify it with a reply but if you feel you must, Id just reply with "fine". You know youve done nothing wrong and you dont need to defend yourself.

Is there any reason why you still need his mobile number? realistically the divorce will go through you and his solicitor. The children are old enough to chose to respond to his text messages or not. From what I can see having his mobile number is just a portal through which he can crawl anytime he likes.

I would suggest you send a message along the lines of:

The children are free to make up their own minds as to whether they wish to have contact with you or not. Please be advised your number has now been blocked.

No response, whilst powerful, leaves the question and channel of communication open and this will only just go on and on. I would chose to take back control over your life and stop him having this power to upset you.

Only send the message above when you are ready to serve the divorce papers. Serve and block.

You've come so far since January, you really have. I agree that it may be time to block him on your phone - he has a means to contact the children and they are old enough to make their own arrangements if they do want to see him.

He must be feeling guilty as he’s stepped up the contact lately. I agree with PP that it’s unfair of him to keep contacting you regarding the children. Perhaps you don’t need to go as far as blocking him, but simply replying as PP have suggested... or getting a solicitor to communicate the following:

“Poisoning our children against their own father is something I have not done and will never do. Any opinion they have of you is entirely their own and formed by their view of your behaviour. I would respectfully ask that if you wish to pursue relationships with the children, you must facilitate that yourself. Each child has their own mobile and you are aware of their numbers. I will not be a go-between. If you do not receive an immediate response from the children, you need to respect that. The children have their own lives to lead and they will answer later, or not.”

If you reply- Doesn't matter what you say it will open up dialogue with him. This is exactly what he wants. Anything you say, will be turned against you. Any further contact from him will only upset you. You need to take back control and focus on looking after yourself.

Usually the hardest thing to do is the right thing! Do nothing!

Do not respond - he will have nothing to throw back at you.

@MoreLegsThanMe he can’t handle the terrible guilt and shame and the unbearable pain of thinking that he has probably irreparably damaged your relationship with his own children. He risked their love and mental health, he did his best to trash their lives (he hasn’t. He won’t. They’re better off without him) for his own selfish choices. He’s now rewriting everything and doing Olympic standard mental gymnastics to avoid facing the truth about what he did. He can’t look himself in the face. It has to be you poisoning them against him, or that means he’s hurt them and they might hate him and that would be because of what he’s done which would make it his fault and make him feel guilty and that’s a very, very uncomfortable feeling soooo....... yeah, it has to be Legs’ fault.
Easy for me to say but grey rock it. If you need to reply at all, say politely that you have let the children make their own choices without bias. You have told them they can see him whenever they like, therefore any decisions they make are based on their feelings about current circumstances and theirs alone.
Take care Legs, it’s selfish cowardice talking. XX

*His relationship with the children, not yours. I’ll get my pronouns right in a minute! 🙄

@MoreLegsThanMe I think that @Thewookiemustgo has got it spot on, I've got two adult children and my wife is leaving for OM and one of them isn't speaking to her, the other is just about the same. I got the same nonsense about turning them against her! I wouldn't its not my nature or style. She doesn't seem to see that its her own actions that are causing it and recently I discovered it turns out she's the one been bad mouthing me. But heh she just says she has the right to be happy (and yes she does) but it doesn't matter how she gets there and fuck everyone else. Its infuriating.

My advice is try to engage as little as possible its not worth getting sucked in my sending long texts etc as it just opens a dialogue and I can guarantee you his response (like it has since this started) will just piss you off and it will start the back and forth. It sounds like your doing great and I can get the anxiety thing about him texting, my wife hasn't even left yet and is dating om and I get anxious about her coming home at night, leaving the house which I know is to be expected. Well done you so far keep going.