SIL and money issues

[ChopinandChampagne]

I recently lost my DH and I thought that it would be nice to give some money to my DGDs, both toddlers, to set aside for their future as a gift from him. Realistically, they will not remember him, but I thought that if they have some money to spend on travel or driving lessons or to help with their university costs or whatever, they would think of him and know how much he loved them, even though he didn't live to see them grow up.

I did some internet research and the suggestions were for a Junior Isa, which a parent would need to set up, and I would then pay into, and the child could access at 18. Alternatively, a savings account, which I would be able to set up as a grandparent, as long as I produce a copy of the birth certificate, which the child can access and take over at 16.

So far, so good and, I thought, relatively uncontroversial, so I suggested it to my DD and said that I wanted to give each of the DGDs £10k from DH and the options. I said that I wanted it to be a separate account and that suggested that she open a Junior Isa or that I should open a savings account. Her response was that she would have to discuss it with SIL and I said fine, thought no more it. Then, I sense that there is a bit of tension and DD says she wants to set up a telephone call with both her and SIL one evening, to discuss the matter after the DGDs are in bed. This was a text, so I reply saying fine, is now a good time, but DD said not, but we could schedule a couple of days later, but only if she has completed her coursework for her studies.

Then, a couple of days ago, I receive an email from SIL, from whom I never hear anything direct, advising me that if I really want to put money in an account, he will open one, but that he thinks that it is a bad idea, as inflation will erode the money. He thinks I should invest it in gold bullion or some other specific account (he says he has recently opened one for DD), and he provided links to various websites.

The tone of the email comes across, not as friendly advice, but telling me what to do. I have said that I will have a rethink, but I am worried about offending him if I don't follow his advice. I feel that he is trying to control how I invest the money. He refers to it as my wanting to invest for the DGD's future, which it is partly, but it is also about wanting the DGDs to remember or be reminded of DH. I don't really want to invest in bullion, as I think it's a bit volatile, and the idea of a bank account is that the DGDs would get the bank statements and maybe learn how to save.

Does anyone have any advice on how best to handle this diplomatically? There is quite a bit of history with SIL (Lobster Boy for those who remember my previous threads), but things are on a reasonably even keel at present and I currently have a good relationship with DD, which I don't want to upset. She says that there is no rush to decide how best to invest the money, it is important to get it right.

I really feel for you. Your SiL sounds a really nasty piece of work. How can anyone spurn a recently bereaved family member who is merely going to drop in and not even monopolise their day.

I know you want to keep channels open to your DD1 and grandchildren (as your DH wanted) but you lay yourself open to more hurt and rejection. I would be very perfunctory and polite from here onwards and just retract a little. Don’t give too much of yourself to them mentally or physically as you need to protect yourself. You’ve suffered a huge bereavement and you need time to heal with your family who love you. 💐

My mum put money into a building society account for each grandchild when my dad died. In child name with her as the signatory. No access til 18. It has meant a huge amount to my dds, even though its modest. 1 bought a dog!, 1 is saving it to pay for a wedding dress one day, the other wasnt born when he died but sees it as special money from her grandpa.

Thanks Katherine, I think you are right that I should not lay myself open to further hurt and rejection. It's the lack of spontaneity, walking on eggshells, which I find so difficult to cope with. I am always a bit afraid.

Spider, you are spot on. I want the DGDs to have something when they are older to remember my DH. It's not about investing as such, but more a token of his love and wanting them to know how much he loved them, even though he didn't live to see them grow up.

Another one who has been following you. I admire your quiet strength in difficult circumstances.

It might be worth considering cancelling the trip and spending the anniversary with your other daughters who have been there for you all along. You are likely to be fragile and the situation with DGD birthday sounds fraught at any time.

"Just the family" 😠 is either completely tone deaf or intentionally nasty. Neither of them useful to you at the moment.

I suspect at some stage the DGD’s will rebel and reach out to you and their aunties. I suspect their parents are too extreme and controlling for them to not be able to see the truth for themselves as they grow up. They will get to the truth of the matter, don’t worry. Perhaps you can write them letters for each birthday and keep them to go with the whiskey. Personally, I would have loved that from my family. (Very strange, controlling parents - abusive, tbh... different, though.)

Also, I think cancelling is absolutely reading the room. “Just the family” is spelling out that you’re not welcome. I’m so sorry.

Day you’ve rethought it and you’ll invest it in your own name and name in your will that it’s to go to DGC also solves the problem of them being more in the future without an account.

OP,
I feel so sorry for you.

Such unnecessary nastiness from your daughter.

Great that you are getting therapy to give you a safe outlet.

I hope you detach from them.
Your daughter has chosen her path.
I know no seeing your grandchildren must be difficult but they are using them to deliberately hurt you and are so controlling.

Your daughter's are both wise to keep their distance.

I'm so sorry for your loss.

@ChopinandChampagne I have been following and feeling vey sympathetic throughout.

One thing I will just say (and I haven't read eery post so it's possible this has come up repeatedly from others) but if your DD is in an emotionally and financially abusive relationship, her behaviour will be affected. It is entirely likely that he does not want you anywhere near them and she does not feel she can overrule him. I have some minor experience in this with my sister in law and her husband and we have had to learn to accept that she will do and say certain things because of him that we don't like.

And of course even in healthy relationships, people will adapt and change to accommodate their partner's preferences, which can be hard for the original family. So in a situation like this, it's just amplified significantly.

Hi OP, I too followed your previous thread and am so sorry about your DH.

They both sound selfish and have been so nasty to you that I think a PP is right stepping back a bit so you don't get hurt is a good idea. Focus on your two lovely other daughters and I'm sure one day you eldest daughter will deeply regret her actions, particularly in keeping you and your husband from your grandchildren.

I am so sorry everybody for not replying sooner, but I wasn't expecting any more posts, so haven't been checking.

I haven't decided what to do yet. I feel that my DD would like to see me or, if she doesn't, it's because LB makes it awkward for her. I don't think she is being deliberately nasty, but choosing the line of least resistance. When DH and I visited last year, just before the first lockdown and when he was still well enough to travel, there was an atmosphere on the first day, and DD was trying to appease LB, but it all felt a bit uncomfortable. DH was really ill that night and we were considering not going to see them on the second day, even though we has travelled hundreds of miles to visit them. However, DH felt much better in the morning and the day was generally better.

DD is always much more relaxed when she is on the telephone to me, when she FaceTimes with the DGDs and we can have a fairly normal conversation. However, I am sure that she repeats everything to LB, so I am careful not to say anything which he might take offence at. I certainly never say anything remotely controversial by text or WhatsApp either, as he reads her messages. Very occasionally, he will send me a message from her 'phone, just to show me that he is watching - at least, I assume so, as he has his own 'phone. He never replies to me or engages though.

In some ways, I have better conversations with DD over the telephone than in person, because she is unaccompanied, whereas if I visit, I know that he will be there all the time. If I were to suggest mother/daughter time, he would take offence, and of course DD has to look after the DGDs now. Not that I would mind going even for a walk, say, with DD and the DGDs, I would be delighted, but I know that won't happen, he will accompany us. If I suggested doing anything without him, he would be offended, as they are one family and come as a unit. Which is correct of course but, apart from when we visited DH in hospital during his final days, I have worked out that I last spent any time alone with DD in June 2016, when she took me on a European city break as a Mother's Day present. So of course she is going to be most influenced by the person who is there 24/7. Not that I am wanting to set up a clash of influences, just to be able to relax with my DD without treading on egg shells.

I am trying to put aside the hurt and keep the lines of communication freely open. The consistent advice which I have received, on a previous thread, from a close friend, and from my therapist, is to keep in touch so that my DD knows that I am there for her if she needs me. There is also actually a similar situation in The Times today, where a psychiatrist has a weekly column, and her advice was the same. However, I agree that I should try to detach just enough so as no to make myself too vulnerable, although sometimes it's easier said than done.

Thank you everyone and apologies again for the delay in replying.

Not that I would mind going even for a walk, say, with DD and the DGDs, I would be delighted, but I know that won't happen, he will accompany us. If I suggested doing anything without him, he would be offended, as they are one family and come as a unit.

OP, I 100% know what you're talking about here as this is absolutely what happens with SIL and BIL. A few years ago, I had to step in when MIL visited (she lives in another country) and I had suggested that her, DH and SIL go for dinner for ONE night and that BIL and I stay home with our respective DC. SIL agonised over it and was so worried and scared that BIL would be hurt and feel excluded etc and in the end, the only reason it happened is because basically I organised it and as I very clearly was not hurt or feeling excluded, BIL couldn't kick up a direct fuss. But in retrospect, I do wonder if SIL suffered in some subtle way for going along with it and I feel a bit bad as a result.

If it's any consolation, a few years down the line, SIL is still very much in this relationship but she's a lot more conscious that it's not okay. She's not wiling to walk away, but she does make an effort to do things without him by "coincidence" eg she'll schedule a walk with me on a day he's working or she'll book a bit of time off when DC are at school and he's working and meet a friend for lunch or whatever. He doesn't like it, but she is still doing it. But only when he's at work. She wouldn't dream of doing something like that while he's at home because of the fuss he'd kick up.

Triffid - therein lies the problem. SIL does not work and shows no signs of looking for a job. Otherwise, I agree that it would be much easier.

@ChopinandChampagne

Triffid - therein lies the problem. SIL does not work and shows no signs of looking for a job. Otherwise, I agree that it would be much easier.

Awful. Although I suspect even if he did work, she's still at the point in the relationship she wouldn't do anything without him (SIL was there for a long time - the choosing to do things while he's working is a relatively new thing).

So sorry.

How about premium bonds? I think grandparents might be able to set them up. No interest, but they would be entered into a prize draw each month and could win.

I'd do what you want, privately. Fuck that basically.

I'm sorry for your loss.

Oh * @ChopinandChampagne*, what a nasty, narcissistic person your son in law is.
I'm sure you rue the day your dd1 met him.
I would love to shake her on your behalf.
It appears she is under his coercive control.
I think your focus should be on your two other dds.
The stress of this could make you ill. Look after yourself.
Hopefully dd1 will come to her senses.I know I'd be asking her df, your dh to help on that one. Yes I know he has sadly died, but I'd still ask.
SpiderinaWingmirror's suggestion re putting money into an account for the gc, not to be touched until they are 18 is very good.

I know that you love her but I think you make excuses for her, a lot. She was happy to let you receive that text about ‘just family’ knowing how much it would hurt you, just as she was happy to exclude you from her wedding and your grandchildren.
She has accountability here.

I know Beef, although I try to think the best of her, to save myself further pain.

DD3 had surgery under general anaesthetic yesterday and I had surgery under local anaesthetic today. I had a chat with DD1 over the weekend and told her this and she seemed sympathetic but yesterday evening she messaged to ask how she would find a private dermatologist. She told me a couple of weeks ago that she had bad skin, but it seems an odd thing to ask, as they are so good at researching everything. Even a small kitchen appliance, they spend ages researching. So I replied suggesting that she consult her GP and she responded saying that there would be a long wait. She didn't ask how DD3 was, but she knows I paid for DD1's op as she would have had such a long wait on the NHS and was in such a lot of pain. I can't help wondering if she thinks I should pay for her consultant and feels hard done by.

In the same conversation at the weekend, she said that she had been offered a part time post at the school where she is doing her placement. She had asked PIL if they would provide childcare and seemed put out that they had said no, as they have just bought a camper van and want to do some travelling. She said they had 60k in the bank from all the puppies, with another litter on the way, so she was going to turn down the job as they didn't need the money and it would just be a hobby. Also, that they are thinking of moving to buy a small holding and having another baby.

Don't get me wrong, in many ways I am impressed that she has been so innovative and she is a great mum. It's just the sense of entitlement and careless cruelty which I find hard to deal with. I don't know why she wouldn't ask after DD3 or wish me good luck. She seems to be loving and our conversations always end with 'I love you' but then her actions make me feel that they are empty words. Deep down, I think I know that it I were in trouble, she would not help me if it were much of an expense or inconvenience. And that is something which is very, very hard to come to terms with.

I think you need to accept that DD1 has rewritten the past to fit the narrative that LB spouts at her.

Detach detach detach.

Hope you and DD3 are both well after ops. I agree with @Randomness you need to detach to save yourself more pain. Your daughter has made her choice, repeatedly and sadly you and her sisters are not a priority for her.

Yes, sadly she is totally hinting that you should offer to pay for her dermatologist as you have paid for her sisters operation.
I’m sorry but she’s absolutely shameless. Pretending she doesn’t know how to type ‘private dermatologist’ into google indeed, they are both greedy opportunistic pieces of work.
Fingers crossed the wool might be falling from the in laws eyes as well though, if they’ve had the audacity to say no to their childcare demands,- but no worries as they have the profits from their breeding of lockdown puppies to rely on 🤢.
Why would she bother asking after the youngest sister? I mean she couldn’t even be bothered to pop a card in the post for her 18th or 21st. I’m so sorry but you need to focus on yourself and the daughters who do love you for you and don’t spend their time plotting how to emotionally manipulate you out of your savings.

I would put it in a junior stocks & shares ISA as there is plenty of time between toddlerdom and 18 for the amount to grow nicely - interest rates are rubbish so he's right that the amount will lose value against inflation over time and really not be worth as much when they turn 18 as today.

Great post from @Beefcurtains79.

I felt sorry for your dd1 as I thought she was totally controlled by sil. Now I'm not so sure. She sounds manipulative herself.
Are they puppy farming ?

Take care OP. Hope you and dd3 are recovering well.

@Beefcurtains79

Yes, sadly she is totally hinting that you should offer to pay for her dermatologist as you have paid for her sisters operation. I’m sorry but she’s absolutely shameless. Pretending she doesn’t know how to type ‘private dermatologist’ into google indeed, they are both greedy opportunistic pieces of work. Fingers crossed the wool might be falling from the in laws eyes as well though, if they’ve had the audacity to say no to their childcare demands,- but no worries as they have the profits from their breeding of lockdown puppies to rely on 🤢. Why would she bother asking after the youngest sister? I mean she couldn’t even be bothered to pop a card in the post for her 18th or 21st. I’m so sorry but you need to focus on yourself and the daughters who do love you for you and don’t spend their time plotting how to emotionally manipulate you out of your savings.

I agree with everything Beefcurtains has said.

I don't want to upset you by saying this but your daughter is really selfish and at this point is just as bad as you SIL. She is totally hinting at you paying for a dermatologist. For your own mental health I think you should take a step back from her. By all means have polite chit chat if she contacts you but do not rely on her to care for you or her sisters feelings, do not offer money for anything at all and concentrate on yourself and your other daughters.

You have really done all you can here to try to mend the relationship and the fact that she is so selfish is no reflection on you or your parenting but messages hinting at you paying for things are really a kick in the teeth to you and show you how little she cares about you.

I wish you the best and hope you and your other DD are recovering well from your ops.