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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

SIL and money issues

1000 replies

ChopinandChampagne · 24/01/2021 13:01

I recently lost my DH and I thought that it would be nice to give some money to my DGDs, both toddlers, to set aside for their future as a gift from him. Realistically, they will not remember him, but I thought that if they have some money to spend on travel or driving lessons or to help with their university costs or whatever, they would think of him and know how much he loved them, even though he didn't live to see them grow up.

I did some internet research and the suggestions were for a Junior Isa, which a parent would need to set up, and I would then pay into, and the child could access at 18. Alternatively, a savings account, which I would be able to set up as a grandparent, as long as I produce a copy of the birth certificate, which the child can access and take over at 16.

So far, so good and, I thought, relatively uncontroversial, so I suggested it to my DD and said that I wanted to give each of the DGDs £10k from DH and the options. I said that I wanted it to be a separate account and that suggested that she open a Junior Isa or that I should open a savings account. Her response was that she would have to discuss it with SIL and I said fine, thought no more it. Then, I sense that there is a bit of tension and DD says she wants to set up a telephone call with both her and SIL one evening, to discuss the matter after the DGDs are in bed. This was a text, so I reply saying fine, is now a good time, but DD said not, but we could schedule a couple of days later, but only if she has completed her coursework for her studies.

Then, a couple of days ago, I receive an email from SIL, from whom I never hear anything direct, advising me that if I really want to put money in an account, he will open one, but that he thinks that it is a bad idea, as inflation will erode the money. He thinks I should invest it in gold bullion or some other specific account (he says he has recently opened one for DD), and he provided links to various websites.

The tone of the email comes across, not as friendly advice, but telling me what to do. I have said that I will have a rethink, but I am worried about offending him if I don't follow his advice. I feel that he is trying to control how I invest the money. He refers to it as my wanting to invest for the DGD's future, which it is partly, but it is also about wanting the DGDs to remember or be reminded of DH. I don't really want to invest in bullion, as I think it's a bit volatile, and the idea of a bank account is that the DGDs would get the bank statements and maybe learn how to save.

Does anyone have any advice on how best to handle this diplomatically? There is quite a bit of history with SIL (Lobster Boy for those who remember my previous threads), but things are on a reasonably even keel at present and I currently have a good relationship with DD, which I don't want to upset. She says that there is no rush to decide how best to invest the money, it is important to get it right.

OP posts:
KatherineSiena · 28/04/2021 11:04

Why does your daughter need her PiL to do part-time childcare if her DH isn’t working? Oh wait I suppose that’s too much trouble or beneath him to look after his children if your daughter isn’t there.

I completely agree with PPs that your daughter is angling for you to pay for treatment. I know she’s your daughter but she is very much in thrall to him.

You must protect yourself and your other daughters. Keep your messages bright and breezy but don’t give too much of yourself either emotionally or even too much information.

NeilBuchananisBanksy · 28/04/2021 12:11

I think it's a good sign that LB patents have refused childcare. LB must be furious, yet he's the one out of work at home.

She was hinting about you paying. Ignore. They have £60k in savings after all!

NeilBuchananisBanksy · 28/04/2021 12:12

Parents*

ThewaterlilliesofGiverny · 28/04/2021 12:45

I think she wants you to give her the money for the treatment, as younger sister has just had a procedure, not that she’s actually going to spend on dermatology. It will end up in SIL’s account.

ChopinandChampagne · 29/04/2021 08:56

Thank you everyone, we are both recovering from our ops, although DD3 is still in a lot of pain.

Thank you also for the investment suggestions, but as mentioned earlier in the thread, the DGDs already have stocks and shares junior ISAs from their other grandparents. In the end, I bought each a cask of Islay whisky, which has historically proved to be a good return on investment. The casks have to remain in my name until they are 18, when I will transfer ownership.

In the meantime, I have heard nothing further from DD1. She may just be busy, or she may not be happy because I replied to her latest text a few days ago in which I suggested that, as they have a young family, it would be worth considering medical insurance. Also, that she could still ask for a GP referral, even if she were going to go privately, or self refer after doing some internet research. I was genuinely trying to be helpful. It was only afterwards, when she didn't respond, that it occurred to me that she might be expecting me to pay for it. Perhaps she feels that it is favouritism and is hurt by it. It's sometimes difficult to know, as we no longer have very open conversations. But it wouldn't surprise me if SIL/LB had planted the seed of discontent. It's sad if that is the case, just as I thought things were improving.

I am also concerned about the wider issue if they are going to be watching everything I do for DD2 and DD3, and being resentful. For example, I want to take DD2 and DD3 on holiday when things are opened up again, maybe just for a few days at a spa hotel. They have had such a difficult year and were a wonderful support when DH was so ill, we were all with him when he died. They definitely need something to look forward to, but I don't want DD1 to feel upset or left out (even though she wouldn't be able to come because of the DGDs).

Also, I may want to help them in other ways, when I have sorted my finances out following DH's death, maybe with housing costs, but I don't want this to be a bone of contention or cause further division in the family. It's all quite tricky. DD3 has recently been diagnosed with autism, so I need to be sure that she will always be taken care of and have somewhere safe to live. Although she is high functioning, life will always be much more challenging for her.

Beef, you make some pertinent points and I also know that Random is right in saying that I need to detach more. Sometimes, I feel that I am being reeled in and then thrown out again. It's all very painful. And I also feel disloyal in a way in even posting about DD1, but I do find the support here very helpful, and I don't want to say too much to DD2 and DD3, as it will potentially make things worse. As it is, they never mention her.

Thanks Eloise and Monday, especially for saying that these ongoing difficulties don't reflect on my parenting. I must admit that at times I do wonder about this, and there is no doubt that my confidence has been severely knocked by it all. I am finding my therapist helpful in dealing with this, and how best to handle the situation.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 29/04/2021 09:36

I think you have to understand that she wants the perks of being a dependent young adult without being in that situation.

LB and her will ALWAYS be totting up and comparing and believing they are hard done to as that is the way they operate they truly believe they are entitled to you providing them housing!!!!

You could invite DD1 along because after all LB doesn't work and could provide childcare. She will turn it down but that is her choice, hints that you should give her them money herself is a firm no the purpose is to spend time together celebrating DH and the nuclear family memories.

MondayTuesdayWednesday · 29/04/2021 10:18

@RandomMess

I think you have to understand that she wants the perks of being a dependent young adult without being in that situation.

LB and her will ALWAYS be totting up and comparing and believing they are hard done to as that is the way they operate they truly believe they are entitled to you providing them housing!!!!

You could invite DD1 along because after all LB doesn't work and could provide childcare. She will turn it down but that is her choice, hints that you should give her them money herself is a firm no the purpose is to spend time together celebrating DH and the nuclear family memories.

I agree with Random. You could invite your eldest to the weekend away and then it is her choice to come. She could even come for one night if she couldn’t come for the whole time.

You shouldn’t worry about helping your other daughters out with housing costs. It is really nothing to do with your eldest DD and she doesn’t even need to be told about it. As far as I recall you already helped her out with money? Really at this point you should just do what you feel is right for your younger daughters as it’s not fair on them if they miss out because of DD1s reaction or expectation. Her reactions and expectations are neither normal nor fair.

Maybe it is a coincidence that she hasn’t contacted you since you gave her advice on finding a dermatologist or maybe it is to punish you like she has done in the past by not contacting you or telling you about your grandchild.

I’m glad you are finding therapy helpful in dealing with this.

RandomMess · 29/04/2021 10:56

Remember LB and DD1 think working is for losers, that they should sit back and let everyone else find their choices!!

So you and DH worked hard, invested wisely so neither of them have to work!!

They are two capable adults that have chosen to have DC and yet think their parents should carry on providing for them!

LorthernNights · 29/04/2021 13:29

Chopin I am so so sorry to hear of your wonderful DH s passing.
You are doing so well whilst in the
midst of such deep grief .

Condolences to you all .

Hope you and DD3 continue to recover and her pain soon eases .

I was on your last thread but have name changed since then. I have often wondered how you are doing though as our situations were scarily similar at the time .

My DD has her very own LB and we are still estranged from her. So much of what you wrote then and write now resonates with me.

It’s heartbreaking that it’s still continuing for you and I suspect while she is with him it always will.

I echo what others have said , her comments about DGD1’s birthday being for family only are unforgivable and must have been so distressing for you . I’ve had similar comments from my DD and it set me back so much. The only positive about having no reconciliation at all is that I don’t have to deal with the disappointment and distress when she turns nasty.

As others have said you can invite DD1 to go away with you and her siblings ( although I suspect if she accepted the invitation it might impact on the break for DD2 and 3 as if I remember they are finding it harder to reconcile ). Highly unlikely LB would let her come anyway though so doubt you need to worry .

To avoid them comparing and demanding money I would keep very very quiet about how much help you are giving your other daughters. Not that it’s any of their business and you shouldn’t have to keep quiet but it would avoid the situation you fear.

I recognise that awful feeling of over analysing what you have said /text in case you may have inadvertently upset the situation. I don’t think it matters what you say , if it’s not exactly what they want ( in this case that you’ll pay for a private dermatologist consultation and any resulting treatment) then you’d be in the wrong .
Its far easier said than done but I hope you can detach emotionally from the pair of them and keep all communication bright , breezy and casual.

Offload all the emotional stuff to your therapist /friends and on here .

Cherish DD 2 and DD3 who have been so loyal and loving .

Clearly you are a fab mum.

It’s still very early days in your grief and I doubt you really have the strength for anything else.

💐 💐 💐

notapizzaeater · 29/04/2021 13:47

I'd invite her along as a family bonding day, she won't accept but if you don't it would be used against you forever.

Mix56 · 29/04/2021 13:50

You have no obligation to give DD1 more, she has had money, several times & inheritance,
She told you she has a healthy sum in the bank, if she needed private health treatment, she can finance it, but LB isn't going to allow it is he? He will be dripping poison and stirring unrest. demonstrating how you don't love her, while loving the other DDs

But she can't be a dependent forever, she is an adult, doesn't live under your roof & is clearly able to make her own life decisions, & does so regularly, causing immense hurt to you.
LB will have talked her out of working, as he doesn't want her mixing with "normal" people, making friends that may open her eyes to his brain washing. He will have persuaded her that the DC need her, & he is unwilling to take on HER parenting role.
But what was the point of doing this course, if not to get a job ? your don't need qualifications to muck out at a small holding.

I agree you could offer for all 3 DDs to come on the Spa w/e, , He will not allow her to go, but that is surely her own remit, you won't be giving her a payout, she haS the chance, she refuses.
She is happier on the phone, because she is alone, she will be calling when he is out. imagine the awakening she could have if she was let free for a w/e.

With regard to helping your other DDs, Well Yes, why should they suffer ? DD1 has created this dynamic, If you give her money, you are giving it to LB. the benefits to her are questionable.
It must be crushing realiising DD1is being controlled, as in a sect.
But you could try & believe she is content with her life.
Meanwhile, If she is, you don't need to worry about her.

Leave her to it. Try & detach & take care of yourself for your other Dds. You are powerless, other than keeping the door open if she has an awakening.

cerealgamechanger · 29/04/2021 14:03

@ChopinandChampagne, I've just stumbled upon this thread and have often wondered how you were getting on. I'm so sorry to hear about your DH- may he RIP.

As for LB, he's relentless isn't he?! His need for control is untenable and you and your family have been more than flexible in meeting his previous demands. After the year you've had, I'd really dig my heels in this time and insist it's the ISA as that's what your DH would've wanted. Knowing LB, he probably has designs on the money/bullion which is why he's suggested them. And, I'm sorry to say but your DD doesn't sound like she's changed her ways either. The 'let's discuss this but only on my terms' attitude doesn't sit well with me.

I hope your other DDs are doing okay.

cerealgamechanger · 29/04/2021 14:48

Sorry, I posted prematurely having read just part of the thread. I've now caught up and am feeling range on behalf of you OP. The entitlement of both LB and your daughter is shocking. Please don't ruminate anymore on how they are- they've been showing you their true colours for a while now. Concentrate on you and your DD2 and 3. Your daughter knows where you are and will contact you when she needs to. Detach, detach, detach from her and her family. Their smugness comes across in bucketloads- they're incredibly wealthy and have never worked and are only just 30?! Leave them to it and start rebuilding your own life.

cerealgamechanger · 29/04/2021 14:48

rage on your behalf*

Pemba · 30/04/2021 00:39

Like pps say, LB is truly dreadful but your DD1 is making the choice to go along with it isn't she? You have to emotionally detach from her, for the sake of your mental health. And sadly, also from the GDDs, as they all come as a package. You are clearly a lovely and very generous person, none of this is your fault.

She wants you to pay for dermatology treatment. Soon they will be wanting more money for something else. But they have had SO MUCH from you, are you not concerned about fairness to your other DDs? Who have not emotionally abused you whilst ruthlessly financially exploiting you.They are good normal daughters. And DD3 may need your help more in the future.

It is your choice OP but you have done nothing to reproach yourself with. To protect yourself emotionally in your shoes I would detach, treat her like a niece as others have said. Maybe even cut her out of your will in recognition of what she's had from you already, in fairness to her sisters.

forrestgreen · 30/04/2021 02:53

You're sharing way too much.
If you want to help a child then do so, why does everyone have to be fully informed. This is now your money to do with as best.
Off it makes you happier set up something for dd1 silently where she inherits the same after death. I don't treat my children the same, I treat them fairly.

Re the spa. 'Dd1, I'm organising a girls only spa weekend on x/x (be specific) so no faffing available about dates. It'd be great if you could join us. Let me know by the weekend as I'll book ASAP.

If she asks how much it is, tell her. You don't mention you're paying for people.

Grey rock more x

Mix56 · 30/04/2021 07:53

Re not being there for DGC birthday party, this will be LB's work too. His parents will be there probably, he wont want you mixing. He wont want the child to have fond memories of you, or want to see you, or ask more about you.
He needs to ostracize his wife from all external influences, so the DC need to be witheld.
Excellent you bought the whisky! He cant get his hands on that money.

ChopinandChampagne · 02/05/2021 09:02

Thanks everyone and apologies for the delay in replying, but yesterday was a significant date in relation to DH, so I haven't felt very functional for a few days.

DD1 called on Friday offering to FaceTime with the DGDs. She asked how I was, but just in a general way. She didn't ask after DD3 and seemed to have forgotten that we had both had ops. She said her eczema was much better although DGD1 was suffering, but I don't think that's why she called. She seemed to want to discuss her own position and was upset because a member of the department had been critical of her lack of planning in relation to her lessons, so she has a lot of work this weekend.

She was also finding it very difficult to manage teaching and running the household, saying how tired she felt when she got home and had no energy for the DGDs. She said she would not feel like doing any cleaning and would look at a pile of laundry or washing up and not have the energy to do it. She was finding it a bit much to prepare meals in advance, before going to work, and when arriving home she just wanted to bath the DGDs and get them to bed, when she would fall asleep on the sofa. There was no mention of what LB was doing in all this - presumably he feels that he has done his bit by keeping an eye on the GDGs whilst she is teaching. I bit my tongue and didn't say anything, as I know that it would be repeated to LB and he would find ways of blocking the contact which I now have with DD1 and the DGDs, and she would be much more guarded in future.

They are still thinking of moving, but can't sell the house until all the jobs are done. LB takes on lots of ambitious projects but never seems to finish them. When we visited, there was half a kitchen, a room off the bedroom, intended to be a playroom, which was plastered but not painted etc Since then, he is in the process of renovating the only bathroom (there was no bath for two weeks - DD1 was so excited when she could bath the DGDs again), as well as putting down tiles in the hall, and the kitchen is still a work in progress. DD1 is very impressed by all this, and tells me with pride of what he has been doing ie important manly work, whilst she does everything else!

Anyway, DD1 now seems to have gone back largely to how she used to be with me, relaxed and chatty and looking for advice and support. I think she has put out of her mind the fact that she got married and didn't tell me and DH for over a year, had DGD1 and didn't tell us for 14 months, and moved house without giving us the address etc. She just wants it to be like it used to be, and I think that I have to accept that I will never receive an explanation whilst she is with LB, whom she clearly worships. She says how much she feels appreciated at home. It takes me back to when LB used to come and stay when they first met. I welcomed him, cooked nice meals etc and he always said how lovely and would eat with apparent relish, but he never offered to wash up, or to do anything to help at all. I don't think the thought ever occurred to him.

In the meantime, there has been another litter of puppies and I suspect that their arrival, plus everything else going on, is why she wasn't in touch. It just shows how paranoid I have become! They are going to keep one of the female puppies to breed from, so there will then be four dogs. DD1 referred several times to them being a 'nuisance' whereas she always used to love dogs. However, she is prepared to put up with the dogs rather than going to work. She says she doesn't want a career but prefers to run the household, which she describes as running a business.

What is more troubling is that they are now thinking seriously of home schooling, as they don't want the DGDs to go to a state school and can't afford private. This really worries me, as it means that the DGDs will potentially not be socialised and will become isolated.

Lorthern - I am so very sorry to hear that your DD is still with her LB and that you remain estranged. It's excruciating isn't it. You are quite right in saying that I should offload onto my therapist, who also tells me this. I still get very upset, but I am getting better at keeping it in check and, as my therapist suggests, not making myself vulnerable. She encourages me to see the bigger picture and be realistic. And of course, there are so many brilliant therapists on this thread, who have kept me going throughout some of my darkest and most difficult periods. I really, really hope that things improve for you, and I believe that they will. You and your DD were very close and true love never dies. She will remember her happy childhood. It is the waiting and the uncertainty which is killing. Sending big hugs to you.

Regarding the spa, I think in the first instance, I might suggest that DD1 and I go for a few hours when I visit, as a relaxation after all her hard work - nothing that LB can be aggrieved about, although I would be very surprised if she agrees. It would not be relaxing to go with all the DDs at this stage, even if they would agree to it, and would defeat the object. Also DD1 lives so far away.

Sorry for rambling on, and wishing you all a lovely bank holiday weekend.

OP posts:
Unsure33 · 02/05/2021 09:17

I think that some isa have to be in parents name for the child ? So it makes it a bit awkward as they have to open the account .

I would check on the money saving expert page and see what you can do in your name in trust for them . Or get financial advice from an ifa.

Just say thank you for your advice but I wish to spread the risk , so I am checking the options . Just make sure the money is secure for the children .

messybun101 · 02/05/2021 09:25

have regular contact with GC to talk to them how wonderful their grandad was and keep his memory alive as they grow up.

You talk about him so wonderfully op. I imagine so much love when reading one of your replies. This part especially had me choked.

we fell in love on our first date, were engaged on our third, and loved each other from the first day to the last day, and all the days in between, for 34 years. I miss him terribly, but am grateful to have had him in my life

I know you started this thread in January, and I'm making my way through it now I promise. But I just wanted to share my condolences and tell you how beautiful it is to read about your love with your husband Thanks

CraftyYankee · 02/05/2021 09:30

You refer to when you visit DD1, is that a theoretical trip sometime in the future? Or do you have a trip planned to visit them?

Mummapenguin20 · 02/05/2021 11:08
Flowers
neilmomareglas · 02/05/2021 12:11

The home schooling Shock
Further isolation.

Beefcurtains79 · 02/05/2021 16:31

Or manipulating OP into paying privates school fees.
OP you sound like such a lovely mother, all 3 of your girls are so lucky to have you.

LorthernNights · 02/05/2021 17:18

Thank you for your kind words Chopin . 💜 💐

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