SIL and money issues

[ChopinandChampagne]

I recently lost my DH and I thought that it would be nice to give some money to my DGDs, both toddlers, to set aside for their future as a gift from him. Realistically, they will not remember him, but I thought that if they have some money to spend on travel or driving lessons or to help with their university costs or whatever, they would think of him and know how much he loved them, even though he didn't live to see them grow up.

I did some internet research and the suggestions were for a Junior Isa, which a parent would need to set up, and I would then pay into, and the child could access at 18. Alternatively, a savings account, which I would be able to set up as a grandparent, as long as I produce a copy of the birth certificate, which the child can access and take over at 16.

So far, so good and, I thought, relatively uncontroversial, so I suggested it to my DD and said that I wanted to give each of the DGDs £10k from DH and the options. I said that I wanted it to be a separate account and that suggested that she open a Junior Isa or that I should open a savings account. Her response was that she would have to discuss it with SIL and I said fine, thought no more it. Then, I sense that there is a bit of tension and DD says she wants to set up a telephone call with both her and SIL one evening, to discuss the matter after the DGDs are in bed. This was a text, so I reply saying fine, is now a good time, but DD said not, but we could schedule a couple of days later, but only if she has completed her coursework for her studies.

Then, a couple of days ago, I receive an email from SIL, from whom I never hear anything direct, advising me that if I really want to put money in an account, he will open one, but that he thinks that it is a bad idea, as inflation will erode the money. He thinks I should invest it in gold bullion or some other specific account (he says he has recently opened one for DD), and he provided links to various websites.

The tone of the email comes across, not as friendly advice, but telling me what to do. I have said that I will have a rethink, but I am worried about offending him if I don't follow his advice. I feel that he is trying to control how I invest the money. He refers to it as my wanting to invest for the DGD's future, which it is partly, but it is also about wanting the DGDs to remember or be reminded of DH. I don't really want to invest in bullion, as I think it's a bit volatile, and the idea of a bank account is that the DGDs would get the bank statements and maybe learn how to save.

Does anyone have any advice on how best to handle this diplomatically? There is quite a bit of history with SIL (Lobster Boy for those who remember my previous threads), but things are on a reasonably even keel at present and I currently have a good relationship with DD, which I don't want to upset. She says that there is no rush to decide how best to invest the money, it is important to get it right.

Thanks Sssloou for all of your wonderful advice on this thread and the last one. Sending you big hugs xx

@ChopinandChampagne. I am so, so sorry for your loss.
I often thought of you and wondered how you and your family were doing.
I am sad that LB is still controlling your DD1.
You are always so forgiving of her behaviour.
Some day, hopefully, the scales will fall from her eyes. and will see him for what he is. I dearly wish it for you.

I remember your previous threads Chopin, and I’m very sorry to hear that your DH died.

I think you would be wise to do careful financial planning and set up a POA (to be acted on by your DDs 2 and 3). If DD1 or LB press you for details I would be as vague as you can, as someone else said that plays into LB thinking you are a ditsy female. Please don’t make any promises, and beware of the “what do you think” questions.

It’s sad that COVID has so badly affected DD1s plans to be a teacher, as that training could have been her way out when the scales finally fall from her eyes.

Cynically, I think LB will be trying to extract funds from you, vis DD1 and the DGCs in any way he can - private school fees, the expense of another move to Scotland etc., “hyperinflation”, or simply he can make better use of the money. In his mind, he must get as much under his control as possible before your other DDs get any. HE doesn’tcare about you or your financial needs in retirement, or fairness in sharing

He and DD1 will be chivvying who ever is sorting out the estate that DD1 will be getting a share of, for money soon as possible too.

I'm so very sorry about your DH and then your dog. I've thought of you all often over the last few months. I wish I had some amazing advice to give you as so many others have, but all I can say is I'm (one of many) thinking of you and your family and standing on your side whilst you find your way through this complex time.

I'd perhaps treat dd1 as a niece and the gc as great nieces etc. You still love them but not as closely, and that's fine as the future is so tenuous.

Also, have you made it right with the other dds. Eg you've given dd1 a substantial amount of money so far and I'd not like them to feel put out.

You must be so weary of the hot and cold from your daughter by now especially as you are greiving and having understandably bad days.
DD1 could still be more empathetic despite his influence, its very sad.
What about you? Do they not realise how cruel it is to play your emotions depending on how cooperative you are around money?
You are still so young yourself and after the worst of the grief (always there but less raw) fades you have opportunities to still do so much.
If anything happened to my dad I would want my mum to enjoy the money while she is still alive.
Its hard because of your other daughters and future GC I realise that, but its like you do not matter.
Set aside am amount as DH wanted and then focus on you and people who treat you with love. Its a shame about your daughters course but she seems determined to isolate herself possibly many miles away so focus on yourself for now.

I hope that she can return to the course and the school - it sounds as if there is alot of support for her there - precisely why LB would want to avoid it happening and whisk her away into isolation in Scotland

Thank you so much for your kindness, everyone. forrest, I think your idea of viewing DD as a niece is a good one, whereby I love her but am not so involved or vulnerable. Minty, you are right, I am emotionally exhausted by it all and just don't have the emotional resources to cope, at present. I just want everything on an even keel, no drama.

Lardy, thank you so much for your wise advice and I will remain wary.

I’ve learnt the hard way Chopin!

Am I correct in thinking that you have several hundred thousand pounds in the bank ? You mention £100k to each daughter.

In that case you need to speak to an accountant and a solicitor about how best to handle this. Your situation is quite complicated as you want to ensure that none of this money goes to your abusive SIL - which it will if you put the lump sum in the hands of your DIL or her children.

You have also not addressed the issue of inheritance tax.

So you need professional advice as how this can best be done legally.

Please don’t talk to any of your children about the money until you’ve done this and have everything in place. As a PP said, just act all ditsy and say “ oh I don’t know, I’m thinking about it but it’s all so complicated”.

It’s better than your SIL thinks you are stupid and no threat.

Sorry I meant DD1 not DIL.

Also, There is an excellent MN area for “money matters” just for some ideas/pointers? But definitely get professional advice.

Do I recall correctly that your DD1 and LB wanted/expected you to gift them your holiday home to recompense them for their upset at some perceived injustice? They are truly and utterly CFs. Entitled, nasty, cruel CFs through and through. Protect your heart from them. He is a monster! The jury’s still out on your DD1.

Why don't you buy them premium bonds? You can do that on your own without having to consult anyone

Thanks for the advice and I will seek professional advice.

skeemee - it was our retirement home. They were selling their house and looking for somewhere to live for a while until, I thought, they bought another one. I said that we wouldn't be moving into our retirement home for 6-12 months and that we would be having work done during that period, but they would be welcome to live there rent free and stay on as long as they wanted.

LB interpreted this as saying that we would gift them the house and said that he would not want to share with us, as we wouldn't like his music. He suggested that we should 'make amends' by gifting them the house.

It is all so depressing. I actually want to help my family financially, but my DH worked so hard that I resent handing over money to a couple who are nearly thirty and have never worked for a living. But above all, I am still so hurt that she could keep her marriage and the birth of DGD1 from us and move without telling us her new address for months. And why did she conceal her address - I didn't turn up at the old address when she blocked us on her telephone. And we didn't quarrel, that's the odd thing, we visited her - a long distance away - and she said she loved us, then that was it. Even more oddly, she suggested that we should have turned up at her old address if we cared.

It keeps going round on a loop inside my head. I think how much I loved her - how much I still love her - and I wonder how she could do this. And I know, I really, really, know, that I need to forgive and forget or at least move on, it is what DH would have wanted, but sometimes it is so, so hard to do.

I think the difficulty with forgiving/moving on is that the situation is still ongoing and she has shown you a side of herself that is deeply unpleasant.

This isn't about some misunderstanding or fall out where both sides are accepting responsibility for some of what has happened. Your DD1 has acted like a petulant teenager and already has suddenly stopped the photos???

You know another way of looking at it is that the have done very well for themselves, you have already gifted substantial sums of money both when she was younger and as a married woman with children. There is no reason why you can't "favour" your other DDs by supporting them and gifting them so they too can live without working at the age of 30

You are not dealing with normal here. You are dealing with someone with a severe PD. You have no idea how far he will go whereas others who have had the misfortune of having their family lives blighted by such characters sadly do.

Normal rules don’t apply.

To forgive and forget is a v dangerous approach with his type. You need a v different strategy to keep yourself emotionally detached, distanced and safe, to also balance your other DDs and most importantly focus on your mourning.

You know this in your heart but your head keeps trying to square the circle.

Their approach to life and behaviour to you and your family has been consistently despicable.

There was a brief lull. Don’t be fooled by it.

Don’t expect them to change. He can’t - except to get worse. His recent behaviour around the DGD money and the withdrawal of pictures of them tells you this. He is punishing you. Don’t be provoked.

List out the catalogue of shocking behaviours over the years and just look at it briefly when you doubt yourself and ask yourself do you want to experience more of that turmoil. You need to defend yourself from more emotional pain.

You are v vulnerable and maybe need to accept that your DD1 is not available to you right now - and maybe will not be for a v long time. She’s maybe either complicit or a prisoner or a bit of both - but she is not available to you.

Are you having any therapy or seeing a grief counsellor - it has helped me in the last year to accept the intolerable and sit with the pendulating extremes of powerlessness and frustration, hurt and anger - when it’s the acceptance of sadness and sorrow that’s needed.

I feel so sorry for you. You clearly want to honour your DH’s wishes to restore and maintain your relationship with DD1 and her family but I think that will increasingly only occur if you just dispense money to them. You’re now being punished for not complying on the gold investment by them not sending you photos.

I also worry as others have said that you will expend so much energy and effort in maintaining a fragile relationship with DD1 that it will impact your relationships with your other daughters. You can’t keep on paying to keep the peace (no amount of money will ever satisfy your SiL).

You really need time to mourn and try to heal so you can focus on your younger daughters and yourself. 💐

I remain all your LB posts so well and I was so sorry to hear of your loss. On this case I would tie the money up in a trust 1/3 to DD so she can not bully the other daughters in the event of you dying. I would insist the trust is used solely for the purpose of school fees/ driving lessons/ house deposit for the grandchildren. If I am right DD and LB have been given numerous financial inputs into them already. I would speak to your other two DD. Perhaps they might be willing to manage the trust for the children. I’ve been where your daughter is and controlled as she is I could not see a way out and was reliant on him. Just say you have had a rethink as you have put a small amount in your will in trust for them so that they can have driving lessons or something that DH would approve of when they reach 18 and leave it. Else you buy shares in their name and they have the money.

Condolences on your DH. I too remember your prior LB threads, how awful you have to deal with him again/still.

OP, this comment you made earlier stuck with me

DH was so anxious for everyone to be reconciled, it was his dying wish, which was granted, and so I am very wary of doing or saying anything which could lead to another estrangement.

I think you need to separate that wish of your DH at his passing with the ongoing reality of life and LB. DH had the comfort of being surrounded by everyone at his end. But he would not want to see you meekly accept any and all treatment by Dd1 and LB to avoid another estrangement.

For one thing it wouldn't work - your other Dds surely have a limit of how far they will let you concede to LBs demands before they either step in or cut off their own contact with you, leading to a different estrangement.

I agree with the PPs that both a financial advisor and a grief counselor are the way forward.

I've been treated very badly recently and it's made for a lot of thinking.
I won't be forgiving, he doesn't deserve it and tbh neither does your daughter in my eyes.
But you can accept and move forward. Accept it hurts, accept she behaved badly but that you'll move forward.
She might continue to behave badly or she might be thinking about what's happened. But if it's the former, pull a bit further away.

You can't change her, just how you react to her.

Excellent post @Sssloou

Has she sent any more pictures recently. There is no way you will ever forget, and that is part of your protection, until you can feel safe in trust forgiveness is hard as you will be constantly worrying that it will happen again.

I just found this paragraph online and I wonder if it resonates. It might help to know that it is accepted and understood that rejection by an adult child totally destabilises the mothers identity and sense of self and that the hanging on for resolution and reconciliation is normal but detrimental. If this is how you have felt over the near decade they have been together then maybe give yourself some self compassion as to how torturous this really is as well as maybe seeking professional help to support you through this especially as you are now even more emotionally vulnerable. This doesn’t have to destroy you and your family.

“In the case of a family estrangement, a core part of the mother's identity may be betrayed by the rejection of an adult child.[51] The chance for reconciliation, however slight, results in an inability to attain closure.[52] The resulting emotional state and societal stigma from the estrangement may harm psychological and physical health of the parent through end of life.[53][54][55]”

Thank you so much everybody for your comments and I am sorry for the delay in replying, partly because some days I am not up to doing very much, and partly because we had no broadband yesterday.

Random - I take your point about the other DDs and I want to see them all safe and settled. I am so worried that I might get Covid and leave them alone. I am being careful, but have asthma - well controlled - but it still leaves me more at risk. I am not worried about dying, but it would be very difficult for them. They were so supportive and wonderful during DH's last days, but I think the shock is hitting all of us now. In fact, I think that for me the numbness of the shock is wearing off and now I am facing the full intensity of the pain of being without him. But I also know that he loved all of his DDs and would not want me to cut off DD1or treat her unequally.

Sssloou - as ever, you give brilliant advice, and I thank you so much, you were a lifeline on my last thread.

billy - DD1 has started sending pictures again, including one of us together with DD3, taken a long time ago. She tried to FaceTime the other day, but I didn't pick up the call, not to avoid her but because I usually keep it on silent. I also wasn't in the right headspace to speak to her. I feel quite angry at present, which I know is a sign of grief, but I think it is dangerous for me to communicate with her when I am feeling this way, or I am liable to say something which I will regret and which therefore plays into LB's hands, as it proves that I am the 'Wicked Witch' which he refers to me as. In the end, I was honest and just said that I was having a bad day and DD1 said she understood and she had a bad day the previous day, when she was thinking about a lot of things.

My take on it is that she does love us, has regrets, wants to be part of the family again and rebuild bonds with her sisters, but ultimately she will still do what LB says, even if that includes cutting us off again. The latest project is that they want to sell quails' eggs. LB's contribution is that he is building a cage. DD seems very proud of him in doing that.

Sssloou and Crafty - I am having therapy, which I am finding very helpful. My therapist also thinks that LB has a personality disorder. I have not exaggerated, just told her as it is, as I have on here. You are right that I am vulnerable and I know this. I have lost my DH so want to hold everyone else closer and I am so terrified of further loss. The vet who has treated all of our animals for years, died of Covid recently, and I was so upset - for him, for his lovely wife, but also it was triggering and brought back all of the recent losses. Everything seems so fragile. I know that my generation has been lucky to avoid the horrors of war, and I keep telling myself how fortunate I have been, especially in having DH in my life for so many years. His family have been just wonderful, but sometimes it is very hard to carry on without him. I will do so, of course - he fought so hard for every last breath that I feel ashamed to even contemplate the alternative.

Sssloou - your point about losing identity is 'spot on'. I lost part of my identity as a professional person when I retired, but I could cope with that well enough. However, I have always seen my role as a mother as pivotal and the estrangement from DD1 has corroded my self esteem and made me doubt myself in ways which I never could have believed. Then, with the loss of my DH, I lost my identity as a wife, something which I know I was good at, at least to the extent that we adored each other - it's not 'rose coloured spectacles', it's really true. So now I feel that I have very little identity left and that I am functioning at about 25%.

Katherine - you are right that I need to heal, but I don't know how long it will take. I am sleeping for ridiculous amounts of time, but still get up feeling tired. I am trying to eat ok, go out for walks, do what I can, but I actually feel weaker, not stronger.

forrest - thank you for your excellent advice.

Sorry that this is a bit of a 'pity party'!