SIL and money issues

[ChopinandChampagne]

I recently lost my DH and I thought that it would be nice to give some money to my DGDs, both toddlers, to set aside for their future as a gift from him. Realistically, they will not remember him, but I thought that if they have some money to spend on travel or driving lessons or to help with their university costs or whatever, they would think of him and know how much he loved them, even though he didn't live to see them grow up.

I did some internet research and the suggestions were for a Junior Isa, which a parent would need to set up, and I would then pay into, and the child could access at 18. Alternatively, a savings account, which I would be able to set up as a grandparent, as long as I produce a copy of the birth certificate, which the child can access and take over at 16.

So far, so good and, I thought, relatively uncontroversial, so I suggested it to my DD and said that I wanted to give each of the DGDs £10k from DH and the options. I said that I wanted it to be a separate account and that suggested that she open a Junior Isa or that I should open a savings account. Her response was that she would have to discuss it with SIL and I said fine, thought no more it. Then, I sense that there is a bit of tension and DD says she wants to set up a telephone call with both her and SIL one evening, to discuss the matter after the DGDs are in bed. This was a text, so I reply saying fine, is now a good time, but DD said not, but we could schedule a couple of days later, but only if she has completed her coursework for her studies.

Then, a couple of days ago, I receive an email from SIL, from whom I never hear anything direct, advising me that if I really want to put money in an account, he will open one, but that he thinks that it is a bad idea, as inflation will erode the money. He thinks I should invest it in gold bullion or some other specific account (he says he has recently opened one for DD), and he provided links to various websites.

The tone of the email comes across, not as friendly advice, but telling me what to do. I have said that I will have a rethink, but I am worried about offending him if I don't follow his advice. I feel that he is trying to control how I invest the money. He refers to it as my wanting to invest for the DGD's future, which it is partly, but it is also about wanting the DGDs to remember or be reminded of DH. I don't really want to invest in bullion, as I think it's a bit volatile, and the idea of a bank account is that the DGDs would get the bank statements and maybe learn how to save.

Does anyone have any advice on how best to handle this diplomatically? There is quite a bit of history with SIL (Lobster Boy for those who remember my previous threads), but things are on a reasonably even keel at present and I currently have a good relationship with DD, which I don't want to upset. She says that there is no rush to decide how best to invest the money, it is important to get it right.

If she us feeling left out perhaps you could add, that understandably, "she is geographically so far from home"
She feels outcast, but is planning to move further away, & when you attempt to visit she doesn't want to see you.

Feeling left out..., its a two way street

@Immunetypegoblin

That sounds like a good and strategic reply Chopin

I am not going to give her any money though!

I think you should print this out and frame it

But make sure you take it down when she comes to visit.

@ChopinandChampagne I do always try and look at the positive sides, and I’m very sorry if the my post the other day was judgy and negative towards your DD. It’s not my place as a random person on the internet on a thread that is very supportive, but her actions were so frustrating and I know if I were involved with this in real life I would either need a phd in tongue biting or I would completely screw things up for you. it must be so exhausting for you dealing with this on a daily basis on top of everything else and you do it so gently and with such a lovely nature.

There was suppose to be a after my quote of @Immunetypegoblin

Thinking of you today @ChopinandChampagne and all those who have lost beloved husbands and fathers.

Thinking of you. I think that was a very loving and heartfelt reply.

I think you should keep the money in your name, and make provision in your will to gift it to your DGD upon your death with the instruction that it's from grandad too.

Thinking of you Chopin today. It's so difficult. I am thinking of my own dad so I know it's tough.

She wanted me to call them as they needed my security details, as I am the account holder. So I called and they needed to speak to her to 'troubleshoot'. So I just told her to use my details, which are very basic anyway, name, address and date of birth

I did just want to flag up for you to be very careful with setting up or letting DD1 - and therefore by extension LB - make any online payments in your name, or where they might be able to work out the password or security code. I wouldn't put it past LB to decide that when some payment needs to be made, they are somehow justified in using your details for this because of past transactions, all the back history and so on. There are no limits on his sense of entitlement.

That would have been the perfect opportunity to have let them take over the contract…

Actually, there is no way LB doesn’t have the latest iPhone… He’s that kinda guy.

Hugs Chopin, I hope yesterday was bearable. I’ve been following your threads since LB first appeared on the scene, and was so sorry to hear about your husband. Just a thought - if your DD and LB do move to Ireland neither will be able to teach in primary schools as all primary teachers need to speak fluent Irish. The cynic in me thinks that it’s another way to ensure DD remains isolated .

Sorry at the delay in replying but I just found Father's Day really difficult and painful, as did we all. We had the BBQ and I went to bed at about 6pm. I just felt very drained by it all.

I had a long FaceTime with DD1 yesterday which was positive and no mention of money or properties.

I don't know where I am going right now, I have no compass, but I am still afloat.

I thank you all so much for your kindness and tremendous support, which I value so, so much!

Well done! Blossoming begins with boundaries I think! 🌷🌷🌷

Afloat is good @ChopinandChampagne, some days, if you end it afloat, it is victory.

Don’t worry about the lack of compass for now. It’s going to take awhile to work out your new direction, and that’s ok.

Send you my thoughts and good wishes. I know the day would have been impossibly hard.

I’d also do lots of videos for posterity. (Proof.)

Sorry @ChopinandChampagne - wrong one!!!

I’m so sorry you’re still having to go through all this, you’re very strong even if doesn’t feel like it

Are you okay @ChopinandChampagne? I’m having a crappy time too. Just thought I’d check in and we could mutually blah together. 😖😖😖

Good morning Justilou and to everyone. I am so sorry that you are having a bad time. What has been happening and is there anything I can do to help?

I am ok, but have been upset after seeing a dear friend for lunch last week with her DH and another friend. It was so lovely to see everyone, but my friend has emphysema and I couldn't believe how much she had deteriorated since I last saw her, before lockdown. She seemed so much older and so frail, that she barely made it through the meal. She kept holding my hand and stroking my face and looking at me as though it was for the last time. I don't think that I can bear any more ghosts.

I was having my everyday uncontroversial messages with DD1 before I went, who was interested in the menu and requested photographs of the dishes. Michel Roux was meant to be presenting the menu but didn't in the end, as he was apparently isolating. However, beforehand, DD1 wanted me to ask him how to cook quails, both spatchcocked and non-spatchcocked, as well as ox hearts - you know, as though I was the only guest and he had lots of time to give me personal cookery tuition

All of the DDs were very sympathetic about my friend, including DD1, who said how sorry she was and that she knew this friend meant a lot to me. She was very loving in her message and said how 'fleeting' life is, which of course resonated with me. So I sent a chatty message back with details of the food, some queries about DGD1's birthday list, all perfectly friendly, but then saying yes that life was fleeting, which was why I wanted to spend time with her, whilst I still could. I suggested a visit in 3-4 weeks time for me to arrange trains and a hotel, with a view to spending a day out with the family, if she thought this was a good idea, and taking her out for lunch one day. I asked if there were any dates to avoid, as I was thinking of coordinating the trip with seeing my goddaughter;s new baby, and said that I didn't want to impose or be a nuisance that I didn't need to come to the house or for her to cater for me. She had previously seemed as though she did want to see me for lunch, but was going to discuss with LB.

Needless to say, there has been no reply and that was two days ago. I know that I have gone against the very good advice of some of my friends on here in suggesting this, but I was feeling stronger and then I was upset about my friend and also DH, so trying to hang on to those who are left. It was also very triggering about my mother, who died of emphysema. I have been having nightmares for the last few days.

I was also contacted by my solicitor a few days ago, regarding the terms of my new will, which I need to sort out since DH died. She has sent me some advice about estate planning etc. and has suggested that I might want to think about varying the terms of DH's will for inheritance tax reasons. I have also discovered a large life policy which has another three years to run, which I have been advised to put in trust. My financial affairs are quite complicated and a lot of the money is tied up in assets which need to be sold before I can do anything. I don't know what to do and there is nobody to discuss it with. I told my solicitor about my concerns with LB and she has suggested a discretionary trust be set up in my will. She has sent me a lot of information, but I just can't get my head around it. I can't discuss it with DD2 and DD3, at present, even though they are my executors, as it just upsets them too much.

Hi @ChopinandChampagne it’s good to hear you still have your sense of humour despite everything around you (I laughed at the personal tuition comment).

How are you feeling about not yet having a response from DD1? I can see both sides of the argument regarding asking her directly whether you should visit. I personally think it’s positive- you’ve been clear and direct. She needs to know you’re prepared to do this for her but ultimately it’s her choice whether it goes ahead. I suspect she’s someone who doesn’t always like to make a concrete decision because she’d be held accountable/at fault for it? It seems that all previous arrangements for visits have been rather flakey? I think you should prepare that she will come back with plans that make things mildly inconvenient for you in the hope of putting you off. It’s good that you will also see your goddaughter and therefore have alternative plans.

Could you speak to your brother and sister in law about your money worries? I imagine the thought of going over financial affairs is really traumatic since a lot of these problems have stemmed from money. However, imagine the relief you will feel once they are in order.

I’m so sorry about your friend, my mother also died of the same disease. It’s a horrible, frightening illness to live with, and it carries a heavy social stigma (here in Australia, at least…). I think the discretionary trust idea is very sound. I am not in the UK, so laws are different here.. is there some way of ensuring that they can only get access once they are of an age not likely to be easily influenced by LB? (28? 30?) I could see him
bullying them into handing it all over, otherwise. The sums would have matured very nicely, if managed well. I’m also sorry that DD1 has clammed up again. That must be both disappointing and frustrating when you feel you’re making headway. Perhaps she doesn’t want LB to risk the fragile accord, and knows that there is no way you can see her and the GC without him being physically present and ruining the experience for everyone. (She would never admit that to herself, let alone you…)
As for me, I have been having what I assumed to be menopause-related panic-attacks. They have been increasing in severity and frequency. Turns out that they’re not panic attacks at all, but apparently two genetic cardiac problems. No wonder I’ve felt a bit panicky… Hopefully this can be managed with medication, but it’s going to take a bit of trial and error. Of course my poor DH is going out of his mind with worry and he has just left for lockdown with some of our Olympic team ahead of the Tokyo games, and will be away until late August, so he’s feeling especially stressed and guilty about it all. Now I’m being watched over by my three teenagers like little mother hens, and I feel guilty about it all. It’s not THAT bad!

Oh @ChopinandChampagne I can understand how alone you must feel trying to deal with all the financial aspects alongside trying to negotiate dd1 and lb.

First things first Re the meeting, let her come back to you with messages, you’ve made the first move and put it out there. just keep the messages vague from now, ‘oh have you had chance to think about the visit, let me know when and I’ll sort things. Don’t wait for her before booking to see your friends baby. Arrange that first then give her a date that you are in the area with a cheery ‘if your not free that’s fine, I’ll just come home’. But honestly what would they be busy with? It’s not like they have work to organise. But if you wait to try and organise both together you’ll never do it as they will avoid and procrastinate until you get invited to baby’s 21 birthday.

THe trusts are a good idea, in your shoes I think I’d set the dgc’s up so they receive it when they’re 25. By that time they will have had chance to make they’re own life away from home following uni etc and will be of an age where they may want to settle down they will also be old enough to hopefully have the confidence to have their independence from lb’s influence.

Is it possible to have them managed externally so lb has no influence with any one in control of the money, it’s probably way more expensive but I can see many benefits. Your other dds are the obvious choice as trustees, but it’s not fair to put them in his firing line and dd1 will be hurt that you don’t trust her. You can also set a trust to take account of future dgc’s from the others.

Take one thing at time, you can do this.

Sending hugs to @Justilou1 too hope you ok

Just for info, my mother set up trusts for the gc, there was a clause saying they could only cash in for something major, ex. uni fees, house deposit. All good, except when she died, one of the trustees (historical family solicitor), had done a runner with a-lot of his client's cash, ( so cashing in was problematic) ! another had died... so be careful who you choose !

Justilou - thank you for your post and for your advice. I am so sorry to hear about your cardiac related panic attacks. That must be really terrifying and I am not surprised that your DH is so concerned, especially as he has had to go away fro a while. Is he an athlete, as he has left with the Olympic team? Hopefully, your condition can be treated without too much difficulty and I have everything crossed for you, do let us know how you get on. It must be reassuring to know just how much your family loves and cares for you.

Lockdown - I am feeling disappointed not to have heard from DD1 and it also emphasises just how much she is under LB's control. There was nothing in my message that could possibly be offensive and she was so caring in her messages before. It is as though LB has decided that the relationship needs to be stamped on or just allowed to the extent that it is financially beneficial, but I can't understand why DD1 goes along with it. It is not as though he even needs to see me, as I have said that I don't want to impose and that I don't need to visit the house or be catered for. Maybe he fears my seeing DD1 alone without his supervision. He knows that I am still in deep grief for DH and yet he is still trying to obstruct my relationship with DD1 and the DGDs, whilst simultaneously putting pressure on DD1 to chase the substantial inheritance that comes via DH, someone who was always kind & courteous to him, but LB robbed of the opportunity to share DD1's marriage day and the first 14 months of DGD1's life. I am pleased that you think that it was ok to be direct. I think that I just need to know where I stand. It's exhausting to be in this 'push me, pull you' situation.

Billy - thank you for your post. I think that you are right about going to see my goddaughter's baby anyway or otherwise I will never get there. I was wondering what would happen if I turned up on DD1's doorstep because, as you say, it is not as though they have anything to do. I guess that it would give LB his long awaited opportunity to throw me out of his house as revenge for the past. I honestly wouldn't mind if it put an end to this enmity. I actually tried to call him yesterday, intending to have a friendly chat and to ask him if he wanted to come out for the day but, of course, he didn't answer.

I thank you and Mix for the advice about the potential trust. I haven't got back to my solicitor yet, as it is just a bit overwhelming. As you say, if I find trustees outside the family - the solicitor recommends that any trustees should not be beneficiaries in the case of a discretionary trust - there is a risk that they might die or otherwise be unavailable when the time comes. As a previous poster said, I know that I will feel better when it is all sorted out, but it is just a matter of getting there. My solicitor has given me a list of things which I need to deal with, so I need to work through it, like any other list, so that there is a feeling of progress.

I was even wondering if I should say to DD1 that part of the reason I have suggested meeting alone is to discuss private financial matters, including my will, as I can't help thinking that she would then magically become available. And in a way I would like to discuss things with her, as she is my daughter too, such as any items she would like to be left to her etc. I have even thought of telling her that it is a condition of my will that any beneficiary whom I have not seen in the six months before my death will not be able to inherit. I don't know if that is even legally possible, but it might put pressure on LB to allow, if not encourage, contact. On the other hand, it is money - specifically his desire for ours - which has contaminated the relationship to a degree. And then I despise myself and think how pathetic and desperate I must be to have to resort to such ends in order to see my DD and DGDs.

I may just be overthinking things, as I am alone for big swathes of time now that DH is not here. Similarly, I am probably overly focused on my demise and what will happen. I am not worried about dying, but I don't want to leave a mess for my family to sort out. I also don't want to upset DD1 or exclude her, but the situation is more complicated because of LB. I am sorry that I am rambling on, but it does help to clarify my thoughts.

Please don’t discuss your will with DD1. There is no way she won’t tell LB that this conversation is going to happen - she seems to need his permission, for a start. That will blow up in your face. LB will appoint himself the Man of the Family and insist upon being an advisor - or worse, taking over. When you push back, you will be ungrateful, etc… You would have been able to help them achieve their dream, blah blah blah…. Nightmare. Just set it up and they can find out post-mortem with a letter of your intentions.

To answer your question about my DH, he’s not an athlete, he’s one of the coaching staff.

Surely, you will need to offset the money DD1 and her partner already ponced from you from any future inheritance to ensure your other DDs are getting an equal and fair share, i.e. take off money written off for DD1. As for trusts for DD1's kids, ensure that someone else is in charge of that and LB cannot interfere or get hold of it all.