SIL and money issues

[ChopinandChampagne]

I recently lost my DH and I thought that it would be nice to give some money to my DGDs, both toddlers, to set aside for their future as a gift from him. Realistically, they will not remember him, but I thought that if they have some money to spend on travel or driving lessons or to help with their university costs or whatever, they would think of him and know how much he loved them, even though he didn't live to see them grow up.

I did some internet research and the suggestions were for a Junior Isa, which a parent would need to set up, and I would then pay into, and the child could access at 18. Alternatively, a savings account, which I would be able to set up as a grandparent, as long as I produce a copy of the birth certificate, which the child can access and take over at 16.

So far, so good and, I thought, relatively uncontroversial, so I suggested it to my DD and said that I wanted to give each of the DGDs £10k from DH and the options. I said that I wanted it to be a separate account and that suggested that she open a Junior Isa or that I should open a savings account. Her response was that she would have to discuss it with SIL and I said fine, thought no more it. Then, I sense that there is a bit of tension and DD says she wants to set up a telephone call with both her and SIL one evening, to discuss the matter after the DGDs are in bed. This was a text, so I reply saying fine, is now a good time, but DD said not, but we could schedule a couple of days later, but only if she has completed her coursework for her studies.

Then, a couple of days ago, I receive an email from SIL, from whom I never hear anything direct, advising me that if I really want to put money in an account, he will open one, but that he thinks that it is a bad idea, as inflation will erode the money. He thinks I should invest it in gold bullion or some other specific account (he says he has recently opened one for DD), and he provided links to various websites.

The tone of the email comes across, not as friendly advice, but telling me what to do. I have said that I will have a rethink, but I am worried about offending him if I don't follow his advice. I feel that he is trying to control how I invest the money. He refers to it as my wanting to invest for the DGD's future, which it is partly, but it is also about wanting the DGDs to remember or be reminded of DH. I don't really want to invest in bullion, as I think it's a bit volatile, and the idea of a bank account is that the DGDs would get the bank statements and maybe learn how to save.

Does anyone have any advice on how best to handle this diplomatically? There is quite a bit of history with SIL (Lobster Boy for those who remember my previous threads), but things are on a reasonably even keel at present and I currently have a good relationship with DD, which I don't want to upset. She says that there is no rush to decide how best to invest the money, it is important to get it right.

My god you must have to put the phone down and walk away so often to avoid saying anything rash that you know you’d regret.

You are doing so well.

How is DD2

(@Merryhobnobs you might want to rtft it’s gone oun many different directions since then)

Merry - that is really sweet of him!

www.formerglory.ie

This is the Irish website.

So did she agree regarding all the sensible points about socialisation etc, or just the bit where the house is a wreck? Also I worry that if you give her an opinion, it merely provides LB with a windmill to tilt at. I'd be as vague as possible, to the extent of 'Gosh, what a pretty tree in the picture' if needs be. Sorry, I know it's not conducive to a real relationship, but talking to her honestly does sound like a potential bear trap

Billy - we had the cardiologist appointment this morning by Zoom, having obtained a cancellation. I was very worried about it, which is why I didn't post yesterday. He hasn't seen her test results yet, but is staining them, and is also going to send her a monitor for 48 hours to check things out properly. He was reasonably reassuring, but obviously we need to see the test results first. Thank you for asking.

'obtaining them'! sorry

Wow there’s some tremendous properties on that site. Not one I’d move to with a family with 3 under 5 miles from any support.

Wow that’s do good you were able to get a cancellation, fingers crossed for everything 💐

@Immunetypegoblin

So did she agree regarding all the sensible points about socialisation etc, or just the bit where the house is a wreck? Also I worry that if you give her an opinion, it merely provides LB with a windmill to tilt at. I'd be as vague as possible, to the extent of 'Gosh, what a pretty tree in the picture' if needs be. Sorry, I know it's not conducive to a real relationship, but talking to her honestly does sound like a potential bear trap

Agree with this and apparently Quixote also possesses a paranoid personality disorder, evidenced by his eccentric, odd behavior. He exhibits all of the classical signs-from his suspicions of others to his inability to take the blame for his actions......

Imagined / perceived slights - anything he will twist. Doubt your DD1 realises she is being used to mine you.

Give them no purchase.

Love the Ireland website - looked at the hotels and SC - magnificent, many near my family ..... made me v homesick especially as our August trip likely to be cancelled.

Best wishes for DD2. So much stress.

Immune - What you are saying may well be right, but she specifically chased me for my opinion and I felt I had to be honest, even if she didn't like it, as I tried to make clear to her. But I haven't been drawn any further, just made comments about overnight storms, what's for dinner etc, which is where I feel most comfortable.

When I pulled out of the original transaction, which was the subject of my first thread, I knew that there would be fall-out, but I didn't want to facilitate her being tied to a man I believed to be controlling, even if it bounced back on me.

I think it is probably ok for me to make comments if asked, but I certainly won't volunteer any. What I really want to say is that you need to look for jobs first, house second, but that is not how they think and would certainly be controversial.

LB is very mindful of money and his rights. I can honestly say that he is the most avaricious person I have ever met, by some margin. So the way forward is to say things like, have you checked out child benefits etc, other EU rights which we no longer have since Brexit.

I get the clear impression that he wants a wreck to renovate, so that he doesn't present as a work shy individual, but rather as a talented entrepreneur, who isn't so stupid as to work in a 9-5 job. Maybe they will renovate something beautiful and rent it out or turn it into a wedding venue or something. I suppose they are young enough to do these things, if that is their dream, and genuinely good luck to them.

It just annoys me when they expect other people, family and taxpayers ie people who do work hard in 9-5 jobs - to fund them. And the more I think about the dog breeding, the more I dislike it. It is like handing your family pet over to be raped for money. I have a male dog, but I wouldn't even consider taking payment for him to rape another dog (he has had his op anyway!). He was actually an accident after a dog escaped over the fence. DH called him a 'love child'

My sixth sense starts tingling when DD1 and LB start asking my opinion about anything, especially property, in case there is an ulterior motive. Been there, done that, got the blood stained T shirt.

So do they intend to come over to Ireland and sign on the dole?

I also think it’s interesting that when you didn’t respond to the house links - DD1 pushed you for an answer - which indicates she doesn’t respect your personal boundaries - likely she is anxious about the upheaval but needs to triangulate you in her push back to LB - which might get messy.

It’s also interesting then when you said you didn’t like the house, she said she didn’t like it either (why send the link in the first place ?) then sent you links to more houses to keep the house in Ireland discussion growing. Quite manipulative.

Of course if LB decides to go for this property, she will tell him you don’t like it and it will be another mark against you!

@ChopinandChampagne I have followed your threads since the beginnings but have never commented. I don't think you have anything at all to reproach yourself about your handling of DD1 and LB. I mean, you're human just the same as them but it seems like DD1 can say whatever she likes to you and expects a measured, if not fawning, response from you yet she (although it's probably he) is allowed to respond as emotionally and nastily as she wants to you.

I agree with PP that you should respond as grey rock as possible. Wrt the Ireland property and inheritance I do think they're trying to set you up to tap you for more money. The less you say about it, the better. I like the No responses above - no, that's not possible, etc.

I do hope that everything goes well for DD2 and just writing this reply has made me see just how much of your headspace DD1 must use. Please concentrate on your other two DDs at present.

Wishing you and DD2 all good fortune going forward and not forgetting DD3.

I suspect that as with the abortion, DD1 may present it to LB that it's your objection to the house that has put her off it. Then it's all your fault at some future point that they missed this wonderful opportunity. Could end up as another stick to beat you with.

Be careful!

I guess next time she insists on an opinion I would stick with "I don't really know it's your life and I am struggling too much at the moment to really think about it"

@RandomMess

I guess next time she insists on an opinion I would stick with "I don't really know it's your life and I am struggling too much at the moment to really think about it"

This is really good advice.

That is fair enough Chopin - I realise I probably sounded somewhat like I was trying to tell you about things you're already very well aware of, so apologies for that!

I think I understand your wish to interact genuinely with your DD, at least in part. My own mother and I had a difficult relationship, but I always made sure to say at least some of what I truly felt, because otherwise it would have been like giving up on her and any chance of our relationship being a genuine and meaningful one. She'd have preferred that I just said what she wanted me to say to be sure, but I always felt I was paying her the compliment of rational attention, IYSWIM I witter but hopefully some of that makes sense.

I hope your DD3 is OK and that the results come back soon.

@RandomMess

I guess next time she insists on an opinion I would stick with "I don't really know it's your life and I am struggling too much at the moment to really think about it"

I’ve followed both your threads @ChopinandChampagne - what a horrible rollercoaster. So sorry for your loss.

I’ve lurked until now - but I do think you’re on a hiding to nothing saying anything about any property. DD1 is “chasing you” for comments - why? As others have said, it could well be another ploy for money or another stick to beat you with. I think noncommittal is the only way to go - “Gosh, beautiful garden, but might need a lot of work? Not sure I could manage that, but choosing a house is such a personal decision, isn’t it?”. Vague, kindly, noncommittal. And do not be drawn on any question of money or finance…..

I understand the temptation to outsmart him and enjoy bursting his bubble on the money / benefits stuff but this is still having your head in the game which exposes you to being triggered, preoccupied and indirectly communicating with him.

Indifference to any of their harebrained schemes is the aim. That’s v hard to achieve but maybe reframe it as delayed gratification - knowing that it will all go pear shaped eventually - and really you want that to happen sooner rather than later and that you could actually be inadvertently preventing that by pointing out the issues rather than let him go running straight into a brick wall.

Also absolutely anything you say or text will annoy him and someone will ultimately pay for the price for his agitation. It might be you, it might be your DD1.

It’s almost like they are able to whip others up and hoover them into their off kilter energy, where they dictate the intense pace, frequency and depth of engagement. As neither of them work they have 24/7/365 to rattle around the internet dreaming up schemes and assume that your life is so empty that you are on standby ready to engage with them.

You don’t have to participate and you can set the pace, depth and frequency that keeps you sufficiently detached from their stuff so that you can focus on your own much more important emotional priorities.

I agree with RandomMess that at anytime (or every time) you can say I don’t have the mental capacity for this right now as I am struggling with / floored by / dealing with / exhausted by / prioritising my own grief and self care.

Their lives are very narcissistic and show zero empathy for others - so they need to be reminded of the reality of the pain you are enduring.

Don’t let them drain you.

Thank you everyone and I am so encouraged by the support from new posters, who followed my original threads, as well as from my existing friends. I think that it helps me to focus and get things into perspective by posting, as sometimes I just think maybe I have lost the plot.

My sister in law called me yesterday evening, returning a missed call from me earlier in the day. Actually, although I was aware that my 'phone had made a random FaceTime call, I hadn't realised that it was to her, and I am not sure why that would happen, as we hadn't spoken for about a month, so her details were not at the top of the list, if you see what I mean. I tend to think it is DH making it happen, as there have been other signs, and my 'phone also rang someone about two months ago, within a business context, and it turned out to be a really important and helpful conversation. Maybe I am mad, but it is comforting to think that he is still around.

Anyway, it seems that DD1 also rang my sister in law, who is lovely and exactly the sister I would have loved to have (I don't have any), to ask her about when the inheritance would be paid. Sister in law told her that brother in law was dealing with it as quickly as possible, but it all takes a long time, 45 minute waits on calling the authorities etc, but he is doing his best. This was about two weeks ago, but DD1 never mentioned it to me.

DD1 also apparently told sister in law that she was very upset that I had said that she had hurt Dad. It sounds as though sister in law was very tactful, said that we were all grieving, that it was complicated, that she needed to be realistic, would take a while to sort out, but that DH would want it to be sorted out. Apparently DD1 also told her how much she loved DH.

I had a long chat with sister in law - we have always got on really well, but became a lot closer after DH's illness and death. Apart from being genuinely lovely people, she and her brother strongly resemble DH, so it is comforting to see them. She was of the view that it was inevitable that my feelings would have come out sooner or later, as they always do, and that DD1 needs to realise this and can't just sweep things under the carpet.

Sister in law was very reassuring. Her view is that DD1 is young, she has obtained her qualification even if she isn't using it right now, and she has her babies and is able to spend time with them whilst they are little. Also, she is married, which gives her financial protection, even if she is married to the wrong person. I felt better after speaking to her, but a bit embarrassed that DD1 has been chasing people for the inheritance, when she has not bothered with them for years. Sister in law is DD1's godmother.

Elspeth - I assume that they can't claim benefits if they have a lot of capital, apart from child benefit. Since there seems to be a diminished demand for puppies, I don't know how they are proposing to earn a living.

Sssloou - I genuinely don't know what her agenda is but you are right, she expects my time and attention, despite everything, and still seems to be trying to justify her shitty behaviour, especially to herself.

Gh0st - I agree that it's odd that she should be sending me links to unsuitable properties. She said that they wanted to compare what you could get for your money in different parts of the country.

Hove - thank you so much for your supportive post. DD2 seems much more upbeat today and has actually resumed work on her PhD for the first time in a while, which is encouraging. We are hoping that DD3 will be able to join us for a Father's Day BBQ (subject to weather!).

rejected and Random and Wimpole - I think you are all right to say don't be drawn in. I only expressed an opinion because pushed. DD2's reaction to the whole situation is 'Meh' - if they want to live some Steinbeck style dream, let them get on with it, don't get involved or engage, especially regarding any financial discussions.

Immunity - I totally agree with you, and your post really resonates with me. It is the difference between having an authentic relationship and a non-authentic relationship. You didn't give up on your relationship with your mother, despite the challenges. I think that was brave of you.

Sssloou - another brilliant post, thank you! The latest exchange with DD1 has been about dental appointments

Does DD 1 require money for private dental work?

Sorry, pressed post too soon.

Because, why on earth bring up dental appts with you?

Spring - nothing sinister on this occasion. It was more along the lines of what are we doing today. I had a dental appointment yesterday, DD1 said she was entitled to free treatment because of pregnancy, but hadn't been. I just said take good care of yourself ie kind, innocuous, away from choppy waters.

Sssloou is right, as ever, I feel really exhausted and I couldn't work out why, as I haven't done that much, but I am sure it is down to all of this business with the properties, and chasing my in laws, and it all brings back everything that went before.

I am trying to rebuild my life, but it is not altogether easy and I don't need extra demands. I even said to my therapist last time, that I was almost pleased when all the birthday flowers I received were done, as it was a chore to give them food and change the water. It was just one more needy thing in my life! I know that sounds pathetic, but I really felt that way.

From your update I find DD1 approaching you to chase her uncle on the inheritance devious, disingenuous and deceptive, given that she had already badgered them.

This is really disrespectful to you (and to her uncle who is also grieving the deep loss of a much loved sibling) and would have been humiliating and excruciating if you had done her bidding.

She is also emotionally incontinent and stuck, having to double down on her behaviour by bringing this up with her aunt.

These actions clarify a lot. She is never going to accept or acknowledge any responsibility for hurt caused to your DH and she is grabby and selfish enough to push and deceive members of her close family who are grieving.