SIL and money issues

[ChopinandChampagne]

I recently lost my DH and I thought that it would be nice to give some money to my DGDs, both toddlers, to set aside for their future as a gift from him. Realistically, they will not remember him, but I thought that if they have some money to spend on travel or driving lessons or to help with their university costs or whatever, they would think of him and know how much he loved them, even though he didn't live to see them grow up.

I did some internet research and the suggestions were for a Junior Isa, which a parent would need to set up, and I would then pay into, and the child could access at 18. Alternatively, a savings account, which I would be able to set up as a grandparent, as long as I produce a copy of the birth certificate, which the child can access and take over at 16.

So far, so good and, I thought, relatively uncontroversial, so I suggested it to my DD and said that I wanted to give each of the DGDs £10k from DH and the options. I said that I wanted it to be a separate account and that suggested that she open a Junior Isa or that I should open a savings account. Her response was that she would have to discuss it with SIL and I said fine, thought no more it. Then, I sense that there is a bit of tension and DD says she wants to set up a telephone call with both her and SIL one evening, to discuss the matter after the DGDs are in bed. This was a text, so I reply saying fine, is now a good time, but DD said not, but we could schedule a couple of days later, but only if she has completed her coursework for her studies.

Then, a couple of days ago, I receive an email from SIL, from whom I never hear anything direct, advising me that if I really want to put money in an account, he will open one, but that he thinks that it is a bad idea, as inflation will erode the money. He thinks I should invest it in gold bullion or some other specific account (he says he has recently opened one for DD), and he provided links to various websites.

The tone of the email comes across, not as friendly advice, but telling me what to do. I have said that I will have a rethink, but I am worried about offending him if I don't follow his advice. I feel that he is trying to control how I invest the money. He refers to it as my wanting to invest for the DGD's future, which it is partly, but it is also about wanting the DGDs to remember or be reminded of DH. I don't really want to invest in bullion, as I think it's a bit volatile, and the idea of a bank account is that the DGDs would get the bank statements and maybe learn how to save.

Does anyone have any advice on how best to handle this diplomatically? There is quite a bit of history with SIL (Lobster Boy for those who remember my previous threads), but things are on a reasonably even keel at present and I currently have a good relationship with DD, which I don't want to upset. She says that there is no rush to decide how best to invest the money, it is important to get it right.

I'd love to know where they are getting all this money to buy houses with no mortgages and no jobs.

It may be worth mentioning to her that the inheritance is ALL she is getting. You have the rest of your life to live and so do your other DDs.

This does sound very much like history repeating itself.

Your DD1 is extremely self absorbed if she thinks that sending links to any property (but particularly one that is far away & isolated!) is a suitable thing to do at this time, given that you are grieving and that the initial estrangement was due to a property/money issue. The house hunting may be driven by LB, but it does clearly show that she is not thinking of your current fragile state and the pain she put you through with cutting contact.

If I were you I would get a statement prepared in your head for the event of them asking you for money. The request may come in a phone call, so it would be a good idea to get ready for it. I'm sure other people will have better ideas of how to phrase it, but something short & simple and easy to remember would be a good idea. Why should you fund her chosen lifestyle? Most people work for a living. If they are choosing this way of life then they should fund it themselves.

Any more money given will just make it things more comfortable for them & easier for LB to isolate her more. If you refuse to give money you could be threatened with another estrangement, but I think this time would be very much against DD1's will and might make her contemplate if her lifestyle & her relationship was making her happy.

Prepare yourself for a response and then try to stop thinking about it. I hope you have the headspace to focus on supporting DD2.

Sending strength & best wishes to you.

I would just answer "looks very pretty" to any and all house links.

And nothing more.

@ChopinandChampagne I am sorry to hear that you DD2 is unwell and I hope that the results she gets will be good.

Re your DD1 and the properties, if she sends you links then I would just completely ignore them. If she sends them as part of a wider conversation just respond to the non-property parts of the message. She is building up to asking you for money to pay for these properties and I am sorry to say this because it is upsetting, but she try to manipulate you by using your emotions and your grief. They have nowhere near enough money to purchase either house never mind do renovations. The cost of renovations, materials and living in Ireland is very high.

The suggestion another poster had of preparing yourself so that you have a response to give when she does ask you for the money is a good one. If you have a response prepared then you won't be caught off guard and will be able to handle it better.

I find it quite shocking and heartless that she asked about her inheritance at all. It is still quite a short period since you lost your husband and how she can even be thinking about an inheritance at a time like this is awful.

Your daughter is only including you when she wants financial assistance. She exclude you and your DH from the joy of becoming first time grandparents and even hid it from you but here she is sending you links to properties.

I also think it is disgusting that she has made £60,000 from breeding and selling puppies in just a year. How many puppies has she had to sell to make that amount? How many females gave birth to those puppies? It all sounds unethical and cruel.

I have adult children and know what it is like when times and relationships are difficult. I don't think that there is anything that you can do to improve this relationship. Nothing you do will be good enough and you are the one that is suffering day to day while your DD plots and plans with her horrible DH.

At this point I don't think that there is anything you can do other than disengage. Have a polite but distant relationship. She may come to her senses at some point but that will have to be something she does on her own - you won't be able to help her get to that point as any advice you give is twisted and turned against you.

Continue with counselling and looking after yourself and your other daughters. If you continue as you are, worrying about DD1, questioning yourself and your parenting etc. your mental health will suffer. I know it is easier said than done to disengage but I think that is your only option to save yourself at this point.

You come across as a very caring person and I really wish you the best.

If applying through a grandparent, you need to register as Irish first. There is a waiting list of well over a year.

@BoaCunstrictor

If applying through a grandparent, you need to register as Irish first. There is a waiting list of well over a year.

Yes, it will take him a good while as he has to register first as a foreign birth. It also means his children (any he already has) have no claim through family as they would have to go back to a great grandparent and it's only as far back as grandparents. Any children he has AFTER he gets and Irish passport would be able to claim through him. DD1 has no claim through him as his wife, she'd have to claim through residency. 5 years I think.

Auction on 2nd July.
Lets hope there is a delay to probate….
If there is i wonder if DD1 would ask for an interim loan….

You know in your heart she is going to ask for money….. so as suggested have a reply to hand…. Preferably along the lines of stop being a pair of parasitic scroungers. But of course as she is your DD you cant say that.
But by god somebody in your family needs to tell them what they are.

The time scale actually is good, as you can realistically say that any money you have is tied up and not immediately accessible so you don’t have it.

And I think the response to any cash funding question needs to be short, clear and close that door right down, and repeated as often as needed as she may probe other ways 'in' to that conversation. Just channel the lines of Mumsnet with 'no is a complete sentence' 😊
No that's not an option
No that's not possible
No apology, no extra details of your own finances which are none of their business, just a no ❤️

@ElspethFlashman

I would just answer "looks very pretty" to any and all house links.

And nothing more.

Yes, this! DO NOT ENGAGE

I can foresee a family reunion being suggested by LB in the future....

I can't believe they already own two properties and are thinking of buying a third! If they have their heart set on a bigger house they could sell one or both of the ones they already own!

Sorry chopin I only just saw your update with the Welsh house. It does sound ominously like they’re going to tap you for the money. You do just need to be direct and not engage with her. I’m so glad you have your other DD’s for support.

@LadyEloise

I'd love to know where they are getting all this money to buy houses with no mortgages and no jobs.

Selling puppies!

Honestly, I wouldn't give her another penny apart from a small amount for birthday and Christmas. I hate to think of them plotting like that. He won't be happy until he has every last penny you own. Nothing will ever be enough. It's absolutely heartbreaking to think of them trying to use you like that. On it I think I would have to say to her that she shouldn't treat you like a cash cow. I am so angry on your behalf.

I'm so sorry your younger daughter has medical problems. I really hope everything goes well for her.

It's so difficult when one child takes up so much of the family's attention. I do think you have to focus on your younger two daughters now.

It needs nipping in the bud, "Why are you sending a link for a house you can't afford ?
Also I would say, if LB has all this time on his hands, he could start by looking at legal requirements of irish citizenship, child benefit etc. as per a post up thread. I assume he knows that there is a delay ....

But if you don't want to risk making DD angry just don't respond.

@Justilou1

It may be worth mentioning to her that the inheritance is ALL she is getting. You have the rest of your life to live and so do your other DDs.

But sadly LB probably already has in his sights the inheritance from Chopin's DH's aunt who is still alive. Chopin said the will was amended so that DH's share went to his daughters. More money! Chopin's DD1 is his cash cow.

I've lurked from the start of the LB sagas.

I really feel the links to the houses are a way of him poking you with a stick, like a playground bully, almost goading you. I think he's hoping, a few more emails down the line, that you will respond with a furious email about what a ridiculous idea it is, how on earth will they manage etc. This will give him enough ammunition to demonstrate to DD1, yet again, how unkind and unsupportive you are and they will go NC as your "punishment". I'm sure further down the line they will try to use this as leverage to get more money out of you, as recompense for the alleged hurt you have caused them.

So, like so many PPs before me, don't bite, don't react to the stick poking. Bland bland vanilla responses. And conserve all your love and strength for your other DDs, especially at such a worrying time.

@tattychicken

I've lurked from the start of the LB sagas.

I really feel the links to the houses are a way of him poking you with a stick, like a playground bully, almost goading you. I think he's hoping, a few more emails down the line, that you will respond with a furious email about what a ridiculous idea it is, how on earth will they manage etc. This will give him enough ammunition to demonstrate to DD1, yet again, how unkind and unsupportive you are and they will go NC as your "punishment". I'm sure further down the line they will try to use this as leverage to get more money out of you, as recompense for the alleged hurt you have caused them.

So, like so many PPs before me, don't bite, don't react to the stick poking. Bland bland vanilla responses. And conserve all your love and strength for your other DDs, especially at such a worrying time.

I am thinking this also. It’s goading and provoking you to have an opinion - any opinion - it’s doesn’t matter because it will be twisted to have caused great offence and deep hurt so that they can go NC again and blame you. Just trying to rattle your cage.

Seems that they are after the inheritance from the aunt now - that will tide them over for a few years and during that time he doesn’t want or need her in contact with you.

You are his biggest threat to his control / isolation plans - it seems you are the only person she has any contact with in the outside world.

Don’t bite. Vague, vanilla etc. But I expect that he NC will come somewhere along the line. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best so that if/when it happens you are emotionally protected.

Also IME these RS take decades to play out. Don’t break your heart or waste your precious life engaging, worrying, being preoccupied with their nonsense - just keep a simple limited line of communication open if you can - but if it’s too much for you have faith that in time - probably when she has 5 teenagers she will find her way home.

In the interim ensure that you can turn towards your own life and make this as comfortable, relaxed and peaceful as you can. Consider her AWOL for now with the brown bears.

I totally agree with @tattychicken that they are prodding for a reaction. that you think these ramshackle properties are totally unsuitable, and you will help them buy something else instead. They are trying to fill you with grandmotherly horror that they could move to a wreck with three very young children. They are hoping you will step in now and make an offer. Don’t do it. Tell them your money is tied up in investments now, so they won’t take offence to you saying no.

Best wishes to your DD2. She deserves all your love and attention right now.

Thank you so much for all of these thoughtful and kind posts.

DD1 chased me yesterday for a response on the property link. I said that I hadn't replied as I didn't want to be negative, but it only had two bedrooms, seemed a wreck, was isolated, and would be a money pit, so could they afford it even if they sold everything. Also, that the children were young now, but when they grew they would want to see their friends, that in my humble opinion children need to be socialised, that she would be a taxi driver indefinitely, a long way from her original family and friends, as well as LB's family, who had been a good support.

I said that it was a wonderful gift from DH's aunt and her Dad (the inheritance is actually via the aunt who died two months after DH and he had redrafted the will so his share would go to his DDs). I said that it was entirely up to her what she did, but that if I were in her shoes, which I am not, I would be cautious, although DH and I had taken some 'white knuckle ride' decisions and it had been fun.

I said that she should put her health first, given what had happened previously, that was my main concern, that she be close to a good hospital and under the care of a consultant she trusted.

I said that I was sorry if this wasn't what she wanted to hear, but she had asked.

To my surprise, she replied within a few minutes saying that she wanted me to be honest, that everything I said was true and she didn't think much of the property either! She went on to say that she thought that it would be better to move to Ireland and sent me a link to a website which seems to specialise in beautiful wrecks. She said she wasn't sure about waiting until after DC was born though, as she and LB didn't want to 'twiddle their thumbs' for a year. I felt like replying that you could, you know, maybe get a job - especially LB - as a way of filling the time, but I resisted.

How did you stop yourself from blurting out “WTF else does LB do with his time other than twiddling his thumbs, then???” You’re a saint.

That was a superb reply!

My Dad said he wanted to give the kids money every month. He could set up an account or we could set up an ISA. he preferred us to set up an ISA (as only those with parental responsibility can). We told him the details. He puts money in. It is for the kids, not us and it is not our money or our say so. We appreciate it on behalf of our kids. What makes us chuckle that instead of using his name as the ref he uses 'Grandad surname' so when my kids get access when they are older they will know exactly who to say thank you, its cute.