SIL and money issues

[ChopinandChampagne]

I recently lost my DH and I thought that it would be nice to give some money to my DGDs, both toddlers, to set aside for their future as a gift from him. Realistically, they will not remember him, but I thought that if they have some money to spend on travel or driving lessons or to help with their university costs or whatever, they would think of him and know how much he loved them, even though he didn't live to see them grow up.

I did some internet research and the suggestions were for a Junior Isa, which a parent would need to set up, and I would then pay into, and the child could access at 18. Alternatively, a savings account, which I would be able to set up as a grandparent, as long as I produce a copy of the birth certificate, which the child can access and take over at 16.

So far, so good and, I thought, relatively uncontroversial, so I suggested it to my DD and said that I wanted to give each of the DGDs £10k from DH and the options. I said that I wanted it to be a separate account and that suggested that she open a Junior Isa or that I should open a savings account. Her response was that she would have to discuss it with SIL and I said fine, thought no more it. Then, I sense that there is a bit of tension and DD says she wants to set up a telephone call with both her and SIL one evening, to discuss the matter after the DGDs are in bed. This was a text, so I reply saying fine, is now a good time, but DD said not, but we could schedule a couple of days later, but only if she has completed her coursework for her studies.

Then, a couple of days ago, I receive an email from SIL, from whom I never hear anything direct, advising me that if I really want to put money in an account, he will open one, but that he thinks that it is a bad idea, as inflation will erode the money. He thinks I should invest it in gold bullion or some other specific account (he says he has recently opened one for DD), and he provided links to various websites.

The tone of the email comes across, not as friendly advice, but telling me what to do. I have said that I will have a rethink, but I am worried about offending him if I don't follow his advice. I feel that he is trying to control how I invest the money. He refers to it as my wanting to invest for the DGD's future, which it is partly, but it is also about wanting the DGDs to remember or be reminded of DH. I don't really want to invest in bullion, as I think it's a bit volatile, and the idea of a bank account is that the DGDs would get the bank statements and maybe learn how to save.

Does anyone have any advice on how best to handle this diplomatically? There is quite a bit of history with SIL (Lobster Boy for those who remember my previous threads), but things are on a reasonably even keel at present and I currently have a good relationship with DD, which I don't want to upset. She says that there is no rush to decide how best to invest the money, it is important to get it right.

Yes they can move there.

That property is a money pit. To renovate it will cost 100k minimum.

I notice its BER Exempt. This is probably because it wasn't a home, but rather a Scout building. That means it will have no heating.

They clearly have zero idea of how expensive it is to renovate in Ireland. A new boiler alone is 3.5k and that doesn't include labour to fit it.

They are delusional.

I read your original thread Chopin. I'm sorry to see this is all still rumbling on and so sorry about your DH.
This house venture is madness. It's obviously going to isolate her totally, that's probably the plan. It seems to be in the middle of nowhere? 3 km to the nearest small village?
Maybe this will be the beginning of the end for DD and she'll start to see LB for what he is.
€200,000? How much is the inheritance? She seems terribly entitled, just flinging money around, house after house, no plan to actually earn a living ever.

That house is incredible, but it’s lottery win level money needed to make it habitable.

Wel the good news is that it's an online auction and they probably won't get it.

It is only 15km from Limerick. Its perfectly commutable. If I wanted a grand design type project and I had a big job in Limerick City? I'd be on that auction!

Buy it for 200k and throw 200k into it and it'd still cost less than I sold my previous house for for example and I'm no millionaire.

Does he already have an Irish passport? This matters as far as the kids rights to one are concerned.

Does he already have an Irish passport? This matters as far as the kids rights to one are concerned. If he had one before they were born then they are automatically entitled to one. If he got it after they were born then they would have to claim citizenship through a grandparent. (This is the case for me. I got an Irish passport after Brexit but had already had my kids by then so if they want Irish passports their claim has to be through their grandmother, not me).

The auction prices are always set very low to attract people in. It's not uncommon for things to go for much higher prices on the day - it can be double the listed price.

But if he has an Irish passport, and the DGC can also get an Irish passport, can your DD? If not, might there be a risk that she then can't remove them from Ireland without his say-so if she ever wanted to leave?

I'd just be very worried about how isolated she will be (that's his intention) and that she won't be able to escape with her children if she eventually wanted to.

But yes, there is no point in saying this to her as she'll tell him and then you'll be pushed out even further.

@PearPickingPorky

But if he has an Irish passport, and the DGC can also get an Irish passport, can your DD? If not, might there be a risk that she then can't remove them from Ireland without his say-so if she ever wanted to leave?

I'd just be very worried about how isolated she will be (that's his intention) and that she won't be able to escape with her children if she eventually wanted to.

But yes, there is no point in saying this to her as she'll tell him and then you'll be pushed out even further.

She would have to get one based on residency unless she has a parent or grandparent who is Irish.

Grey rock method is the best, don't engage too much on the house as it will all go straight back to LB and she'll immediately take his side, withdrawal of DGC contact etc here's hoping that one day she'll be in a place of seeing her own reality and looking for a door, but right now she is not there.

I would keep an eye on the auction date and just watch for any urgent loan / finance requests as the price rises....

I did wonder if this is a way of him trying to stick it to his own parents... I think you mentioned earlier they had displeased him on something (was it childcare?) and he does have a habit of being very spiteful and holding grudges....

You are doing so well and with so much to deal with yourself and for DD2, don't push yourself to breaking point for DD1 and LB, they have made their priorities and choices, and you have your own with your own recovery journey and DD2 and 3 ❤️

Sending 💐

I am really sorry to hear what DD2 is going through. Keep focused on her and your own grief.

As PP said protect your heart. These are raw, tough days.

This Ireland house stuff is just so predictable for such personality disordered character - isolate and withdraw from society.

Just another hare brained scheme to fill his delusional and empty, lazy days. There will be another crack pot scheme along shortly.

I would not have any opinion to give - I would not use your precious and finite headspace. Apart from to laugh inwardly at their absurdity - if you can even be bothered.

You need to just let DD1s situation happen I think OP. If living in a broken down wreck miles from anyone/anything and homeschooling 3 children on her own doesn't make her realise she is not actually happy, then nothing will. She needs to realise all of this on her own. It's like he's setting up his own private cult, isn't it.

I'm sorry you're worrying about DD2 as well

He is in cloud cuckoo land if he thinks buying that house is a good idea. Whatever he pays for it he can expect to pay the same again for renovations, and it could take years to complete the work. Online auctions like this one are always priced very low, I was looking at a fixer upper listed at 20k in rural area in Westmeath that eventually went for 110k and it would haven taken another 80-100k for renovations.

I think you need to grey rock and focus your support on DD2 for now, DD1 is obviously not in a position to listen to anything you say and any contact with her seems to leave you further drained and she is attempting to manipulate you for LB. Take care OP, keep posting for support.

A possible scenario is that their bid wins the auction and they put down the 10% deposit (money from the puppies) but they can’t raise all the remaining funds in the 30 days (Uncle hasn’t come good on sorting out the inheritance or mortgage fallen through etc.) but as you’ve got ready cash in the bank you can “give” them the rest as soon as possible so they don’t lose their deposit, it can be an “early inheritance”.

• I don’t know if the auction process in Ireland is the same as England

If what @Gh0stontoast suggests actually happens, please don't give them any money, @ChopinandChampagne.

Let them sort out their own lives.

I’m sorry everything is happening at once. At least you can support DD2 at the moment. (I am dealing with something similar heart thing myself at the moment, too. (Will have undoubtedly shared the love with at least one of my kids as well…. Poop.) Much empathy. 💐) Yet another example of women’s health falling far behind Best Practice Guidelines in UK. Dodgy smears are referred very quickly here in Aus. There simply aren’t enough gynaecologist around to handle the demand, are there?
As for DD1, I think you need to be bland and “Yes, sounds lovely…” everything and just let them drive their own bus. I suspect she knows already what you really think.

And yes, no money. Any mess created is not yours to clean up.

www.onthemarket.com/details/10511198/

Thank you for your replies and your kindness. You have been a real lifeline to me, at a time when sometimes I have felt that I am drowning in sorrow and despair.

In answer to questions, the inheritance will be in the region of £115k. LB has apparently applied for an Irish passport, but doesn't currently have one. I believe that he has an Irish grandparent. They also have £60k in cash, mainly through selling puppies during lockdown, although they are finding it difficult to sell the latest litter and are currently left with four puppies, so keep lowering the price.

The house they live in, I am guessing is worth about £80k (no mortgage). Also, a house they rent out, which they bought for about 55k a couple of years ago (having asked us to lend them £10k for this purpose which they didn't offer to pay back). This property is also mortgage free and let out. DD1 said that they have just renewed the tenancy.

The details of the above property were forwarded to me by DD1 yesterday evening in a link with no covering message. My maths isn't very good, but even I can work out that, given that the asking price is £300k, there is going to be a shortfall, even of they sell everything, as there is no provision for moving or renovation costs. I can't help wondering where they are expecting to recover that shortfall from. They don't believe in mortgages and presumably wouldn't be able to obtain one anyway, as neither of them have jobs.

The property also has only two bedrooms, so presumably it will need to be extended, which again will not be cheap. I presume LB plans to do the work himself and it will literally take years.

This is how it all started out last time, in the beginning, when they wanted money to buy a house just before DD1 graduated. She would send me links to houses to try to engage me. When they did buy a house, they spent two and a half years renovating it, whilst living on benefits, even though the work was mainly cosmetic.

It all seems like 'deja vu' and caused nothing but trouble last time. Why can't they just be grateful for what they have and work for a living. My DH had such a strong work ethic and couldn't understand why two young, healthy, intelligent and well qualified people would choose not to work. I know that DD1 has the DC now, so can understand why she wants to stay home whilst they are little, but I despair of LB.

I hope that I am wrong about all this, but I am getting bad vibes. I haven't replied.

So they don't have a passport let alone the money.

Don't engage, don't be drawn in. I think they are hinting at you giving some money towards it. Don't. Even if it means they don't talk to you for a while.

If he's only getting an Irish passport now and it's through a grandparent, then any children they already have are not eligible for Irish passports.
They expect any shortfall to come from you.

LB will expect the “Bank of MIL” to pay up!

There you go - as predicted moved on to another hare brained scheme - because he has all the time in the world to surf the net.

I see that this is triggering you and you are emotionally thrown back into that difficult time when they were demanding money off you and it all led to the estrangement.

Those feelings are real and emotionally overwhelming - so I suspect you are feeling threatened again.

But it’s different now. You are done financially with them.

And you also need to be done with them emotionally - but both are tied up together.

They have more than enough with two mortgage free properties and an income stream from the rental whilst screwing the benefits systems and abusing the teacher training bursary (deliberate theft from the state of almost £60k as neither of them have ever planned to teach) and a fat inheritance. Chuck in the unregulated puppy farming, the white supremacy beliefs - and everything that they have done to you, your DH and your DDs - they are morally bankrupt.

She doesn’t care that you are in deep grief right now they are just salivating and grabbing anything and everything to move them on.

I would change your communication with her. Tell her you are busy managing your grief and a call once a week is all you can deal with for the next few months. You need some boundaries from this unrelenting nonsense. This is not helping you right now.

You have every right to withdraw and limit contact to allow you to focus on you.

I hope that you can find the focus to emotionally detach from her in your head and to do so you need less communication from her.

I hope you can actually feel some anger if they dare to ask for money from you and can just "no".

Hopefully you can just ignore the hints and DD1 won't have the nerve to actually ask.

Getting benefits here in Ireland if u have property might not be as easy as they think. And child benefit here isn't as easy to get if u aren't from here or have income from outside the state.
Plus we have shit public transport outside of large towns and the cost of living is higher than the UK.
Added in that there is a shortage of building materials with many one off projects having to stop completely.

Ssslou makes very valid points.

It sounds like you’re feeling very wary and as though you’re not sure whether responding is for the best or not. I’ve said it before but strong clear boundaries are your friend. Have a think of what message you want her to have from you in relation to these properties…. My view is that they’re probably hoping that you will provide the short fall- which I expect is your view too. When she comes to you with these links- what message do you want to give her? Do you want her to think that you’re disinterested? Do you want her to be clear that you will not be funding these?

I suppose some options would be to give a very noncommittal answer like “that’s nice” maybe ignore the next couple of links that come through and then another “yes that’s nice too”. Or you could directly ask her if they plan on selling the other properties to fund this new property- although this may be more difficult because the conversation may arise that you don’t want to have. The positive to this would be that you get the opportunity to be direct and clear in that you will not be providing them with more financial assistance.

Reading your updates can be very frustrating because you’re clear that both you and your DH had such good work ethics and your other daughters seem to be the same. Again, it’s this grandiose view of themselves that they’re more superior than the rest of society and do not have to contribute/work hard. They’re behaving like spoilt adults. In your shoes, I would find their expectations of other people to fund their lifestyle very testing.

It’s concerning that she seems to be wanting to become isolated from the rest of society and home schooling the children. I’m not opposed to home schooling but I believe that it takes a very organised and skilled parent to do this because socialisation is still very important.

I think my advice would be that whenever the property or money talk arises, you change the subject and be honest about how you’re still struggling so much with your grief. You really don’t have the space to deal with this when your grief is so overwhelming and raw at the minute. Please take each hour by hour. Do you meditate? It might be helpful if you feel that you need some headspace. When I read your posts I get the feeling that you have all these things darting and swimming around your head and it bogs you down. Please take care of yourself, especially now you have your DD2 to worry about as well.

Definitely grey rock grey rock grey rock.... I suspect, as you've mentioned, that she is trying to 'entice' you in with these forwarded links, I simply would just not reply at all, and especially as they come without even any message...

I also agree, and whilst it may sound strong words her actions have demonstrated this, she (and LB) are morally bankrupt. Who on earth would behave like this to you given you are grieving, it's just awful.

As shown with the query on the inheritance, she doesn't initially want to ask the 'awkward' questions (she wanted you to approach relative re inheritance timescales - again who would even ask that? You'd just wait and be grateful) but the question DOES come... so you know in some call soon she will be asking the question of you re money/loan etc, it honestly feels like she is a shark circling biding her time, I know that sounds awful but it does seem like that.

Grey rock, boundaries, keeping your head and heart as safe as possible, interact when YOU feel up to it, do not let her or her communications 'push' their way intruding and adding more stress to you ❤️