SIL and money issues

[ChopinandChampagne]

I recently lost my DH and I thought that it would be nice to give some money to my DGDs, both toddlers, to set aside for their future as a gift from him. Realistically, they will not remember him, but I thought that if they have some money to spend on travel or driving lessons or to help with their university costs or whatever, they would think of him and know how much he loved them, even though he didn't live to see them grow up.

I did some internet research and the suggestions were for a Junior Isa, which a parent would need to set up, and I would then pay into, and the child could access at 18. Alternatively, a savings account, which I would be able to set up as a grandparent, as long as I produce a copy of the birth certificate, which the child can access and take over at 16.

So far, so good and, I thought, relatively uncontroversial, so I suggested it to my DD and said that I wanted to give each of the DGDs £10k from DH and the options. I said that I wanted it to be a separate account and that suggested that she open a Junior Isa or that I should open a savings account. Her response was that she would have to discuss it with SIL and I said fine, thought no more it. Then, I sense that there is a bit of tension and DD says she wants to set up a telephone call with both her and SIL one evening, to discuss the matter after the DGDs are in bed. This was a text, so I reply saying fine, is now a good time, but DD said not, but we could schedule a couple of days later, but only if she has completed her coursework for her studies.

Then, a couple of days ago, I receive an email from SIL, from whom I never hear anything direct, advising me that if I really want to put money in an account, he will open one, but that he thinks that it is a bad idea, as inflation will erode the money. He thinks I should invest it in gold bullion or some other specific account (he says he has recently opened one for DD), and he provided links to various websites.

The tone of the email comes across, not as friendly advice, but telling me what to do. I have said that I will have a rethink, but I am worried about offending him if I don't follow his advice. I feel that he is trying to control how I invest the money. He refers to it as my wanting to invest for the DGD's future, which it is partly, but it is also about wanting the DGDs to remember or be reminded of DH. I don't really want to invest in bullion, as I think it's a bit volatile, and the idea of a bank account is that the DGDs would get the bank statements and maybe learn how to save.

Does anyone have any advice on how best to handle this diplomatically? There is quite a bit of history with SIL (Lobster Boy for those who remember my previous threads), but things are on a reasonably even keel at present and I currently have a good relationship with DD, which I don't want to upset. She says that there is no rush to decide how best to invest the money, it is important to get it right.

I am also still paying DD1's mobile 'phone bill, which is their only source of internet, so LB has her 'phone when she is at work. I mentioned a couple of years ago that DD1 should pay for her own 'phone, but she hasn't done anything about it and I doubt she will.

Has this been going on many years? I'd have a look at how much ££ you are paying and see what new deals are available. I somehow have managed to add DH's mobile to my bill & reduced the whole bill, so you could find it cheaper to transfer to a new deal with an additional phone number - pop that sim in another phone and present it as you'd hate to think of LB worrying about DD1 stuck by the side of the road broken down on the way home from work, and tell how it has saved you money too.

The three phone calls in one day was about one thing only, Chopin. LB wants his hands on that £100k and he is getting impatient. I won’t be taken in by any of it if I were you.

I have followed your threads and I really don't think you should beat yourself up for what you said in what was clearly an incredibly stressful situation. I know my mum said fairly similar to my then-fiancé a few years ago. They are now great friends - he was upset at the time but accepted her subsequent apology because he loves and wants what is best for me and understands my mum feels the same, even if they disagreed at the time. It's a shame LB can't get over his pride. Sending you lots of good wishes.

Chopin, I have read all your threads, and I really don't think you did anything wrong in insisting LB left your house, that awful day when DD1 locked herself in the bathroom!

He already had, "form" for being controlling, had demonstrated very entitled behaviours, and had upset DD, repeatedly.

And the bottom line was, it was YOUR house, he was a guest who behaved in an intimidating manner, refused to leave, and your DH was not there, etc.

Of course you say you will ring the Police, under those circumstances, if someone refuses to leave!

Everything, subsequently, has been driven by his greed and manipulative, controlling behaviour.

I'm glad you had a long talk with DD1, but this is exactly the same cycle as previously, when there is money in the offing, or LB wants yet more money.

He views you as a "cash cow" (sorry, but he does) and only allows DD1 access to you, when it suits him.

Please be very very careful.

I'm also a bit worried how you seem to take responsibility for everything, yet they don't. The inheritance situation also makes me suspicious.

I get you need to tread carefully around your daughter, but that doesn't mean you have to apologise over and over.

Where are there apologies to you?

Be careful op. I am concerned about you. I don't think you are any further forward sadly.

Wow what a day for you Chopin, I hope this thread has enabled you to get some perspective on the situation for you, and after your previous call the other day for dd to push the conversation is a positive step.

It’s incredible that all of this stems from a grudge following that day and I disagree that it rewrites the narrative as suggested by a pp. You had requested several times nicely, that he leave and he refused. Dd was in floods of tears, anyone genuinely concerned would have said to dd through the door, I love you, I’m off home now but I’m here when your ready to see me again. He didn’t, he forced the situation, until you reacted as you did then he expected you to give him a house, read that again ‘A HOUSE’ as recompense. Lb pushed this situation and whilst I understand you wishing you had acted differently and lb not liking you as a result, the punishment was hardly fitting of the crime.

It does seem to be slowly burning in dd1 and her not wanting him at the birth is interesting, he behaved appallingly at the last one, and whilst she is so not ready to admit that openly, or maybe even to herself yet there must be some resentment starting to brew.

I’m not surprised they are thinking Wales, you can get a lot of house for your money in many places there, but it will isolate her even more than she already is.

I have enormous sympathy for the OP.

All I was highlighting is that saying to anyone that nobody likes them and they are not good enough for my daughter are sadly things which will stay with someone, and are more than a general 'row' or argument.

I am reeling from the fact he went to collect mother & child after such a majorly dangerous cesarian, against medical advice then she had to stand & cook his dinner.... She didn't dare say no Im staying put both of us are very fragile, I need a rest. Or even once home just take herself off to bed.
She nearly died...
LB really us a monster.

Yes I remember him taking her home immediately after the C-Section against clinical advice. V brutal and dangerous - she must be traumatised. I suspect that reproductive coercion - is another controlling tactic in the RS.

I also think that LB provoked your outburst (see The Water Torturer - in the abuser profiles) which left you with enough shame that he can continue to gaslight and hold this over you for 6 whole years - the exact same goading and gaslighting technique that he used on your DD1 is to claim she was unstable in your kitchen all those years ago.

Everyone has outbursts now and again in emotionally charged situations. You did nothing that an other mother would have done in the same circumstances and you would be given a round or applause if he had stayed away then and saved your DD1 and all of your family the many subsequent years of heartache and abuse.

ChopinandChampagne
Be as kind to yourself as you are to others.
That inner voice is so self critical.

Step back, don't get reeled in.
If your DD1 is truly coming round and beginning to see the truth of her life and it's not a ruse by LB, then take it easy. Slowly, slowly. Fingers crossed she will see what he is really like.
I know it must be utterly heartbreaking for you to watch your beloved daughter being taken in by a scheming, selfish pr*ck and becoming a different person to the one you and your dh reared.

OP, I also think this is another transactional talk.
You got some info AFTER financial enquiry. Brazen necks both of them

Please proceed with extreme caution. DD1 is not just a victim in this.
Has she ever got back directly with her sisters or are you always a messenger?

If she wants contact she can do it herself instead of fishing for the information from you.

Take care,thinking of you 💐

Oh thank you everyone. I wanted to say this, but I have already been very negative already. She’s totally on a fishing expedition.

I'm afraid I totally agree with the others who say this is about the money for your daughter. Obviously it is with LB - it has been since day 1. Money and control are his things. If she provides him with the money, he's nicer to her - you are the person who can provide her with the money because she (and he) think they are too good to work.

All abusive men try to keep their wives out of situations where they are separate from them and might talk. My friend's a midwife and she said they have strategies to separate men from their partners during clinic visits as they need to ask the women private questions about their safety. Some men resist that to such an extent that it's really obvious what's going on.

LB is ultimately pathetic but he's like a cult leader to your daughter. She is in thrall to him and unless she snaps out of it, no amount of persuasion will work. Personally I would've been very tempted to snap the truth at her by now but I know you can't risk losing your connection with your grandchildren. That's why they are in a position of strength, isn't it?

I am so sorry for you. Please don't let yourself get played by them financially. You're being very generous with your lovely husband's money - after that's been given to him (which is what it is, basically) then I wouldn't give another penny. If you want to make it fair you could set up a savings account for their children so that every time you give something to your other daughters you put something in the savings account, but it would have to stay in your name, remain a secret, and mustn't be accessed by their children until they are 25 or so.

Thank you and, as ever, I am so grateful for your perception and support.

I did feel a bit euphoric and also exhausted after that long telephone conversation, but now I have come back to earth and just feel quite flat, that I don't want to engage too much.

LB will not change and, as someone said, ultimately he is quite pathetic, although unfortunately has power via DD1 and the DGC. I was interested that another poster's mother had behaved in a similar way, but were great friends now.

I tried to say to LB when we met that time that I had behaved like a Victorian father in a melodrama and wasn't it ridiculous, but I was sure that we would laugh about it in time. But he was just cold and unresponsive. In fact, come to think of it, he doesn't seem to have a sense of humour at all. I don't ever remember hearing him laugh about anything.

I met DD3 for lunch yesterday and of course we reminisced about DH and became a bit tearful. She wants us all to be together on Father's Day. She said she was surprised that I had suggested visiting DD1 on DGD1's birthday and that I shouldn't take it personally that they didn't want me to visit on that day. She said that she and DD2 were my family now.

DD3 is much less sympathetic to DD1 for her treatment of DH and all of us, thinks she has made her bed and should lie on it etc. However, she cares for DD1 and seemed concerned that she is expecting another baby already, especially after what happened last time and the time before. She thinks she is mad and doesn't understand why she wants to be with LB and was shocked that he reads all her messages etc.

She is also concerned that DGD1 is so dependent on DD1 and that they will become more isolated if they are home schooled, but recognises and is pleased that DD1 has found joy in her children. Ultimately she just wants her to be happy but feels somewhat detached because of LB.

DD3 doesn't think I should visit DD1 on my own, but that the three of us should spend a few days together on a short break together nearby, later in the year, and spend one day with them. She suggested going out somewhere rather than to the house, so that it is less awkward and the DGDs will be entertained.

Maybe that would be the best thing to do. It would be a bit of an ordeal to go on my own and I can see, as DD2 and DD3 have said, and indeed as so many on here have said, I am opening myself up to further hurt in chasing something which is unobtainable, at least for now.

DD1 is still sending messages. She asked me if Dad had seen a particular film and if he'd liked it. I said he had probably seen it, but I didn't know if he'd liked it. She replied that she never would now, which was quite sad. I will send a kind reply, I am determined to be kind and not angry again, but don't have the energy to engage too much at present.

Thank you again and I hope that everyone is enjoying the sunshine!

I agree that you shouldn't visit on your own OP, your other daughters seem to have the measure of what's going on and seem willing to support you, so allow them to.

As for any money I would be squirreling it away as a nest egg for DD1 in the event that she divorces LB. I wouldn't even mention it to her, just have it in a separate account for her to restart her life away from this man.

I think dd3s suggestion is brilliant, you can have a lovely few days and see dd1 all together, this also means you have the others for support and to intervene if the conversation starts heading the wrong way. It’s good that she suggested it too.

DD3 makes so much sense.

Maybe think of it this way.
DD1 has married a brown bear and is currently a brown bear. If you try to interact with her as you did when she was a person, whilst she is a brown bear, you will get very hurt. You need to deal with her as you would a brown bear, at the moment (take people with you, don't let her get too close etc). Hopefully, she will eventually stop being a brown bear and you can interact with her normally as you once did.

There is a phrase on MN that when someone tells you who they are, believe them. She may not always be this way (and your kindness will always help), but whilst she is a brown bear...

Apologies, that analogy was not great!

Oh,OP.

Maybe it’s just me but DD1 asking about your DH (and her Dad) is another twist of the knife. Maybe she wanted to show you that she remembers him but she’s done it in a very clumsy way.

If you spend your life with loving relatives you’d get the idea what things they would like/enjoy.
She could have spent more time with her Dad but she chose not to. She stayed with LB.
What loving partner keeps their spouse away from their dying parent?

Maybe it’s grief striking DD1 that her Dad is gone and she will never get the time with him back.Too little too late I’m afraid.

@ChopinandChampagne you’re dealing with extremely difficult situation at the time of trauma.

I’m pretty sure nobody who gave you the advice on any on your threads wants to be negative or hurt you as you come across a very loving and nurturing person but some things need to be said to warn you.

DD3 is right.Don’t ever conside going to DD1 and her “brown bear cave” alone. You will get hurt.Meet on neutral ground with the other people around and not in the comfort of DD1’s surroundings.
There’s no unconditional love there,whatever’s on the offer has lots of strings attached.

Please take extreme care.

I’d also shut down any conversations around money/inheritance.They are both fit for work but are choosing not too.
If they want a bigger house they can earn for it like everybody else does.

Big hugs OP

That whole phone call was for DD1 to get you to do her dirty work of asking her uncle about where her money was. Transactional once you think it through.

LB treatment of her last birth is just horrific.

Was GDC2 born on Christmas eve last year?

Gosh @Diamondnights, that was a clever metaphor!

Please seek proper legal advice before you gift any money to your GC. There are inheritance tax implications in gifting money to others which may be relevant to your situation...either now or in the long term. The rules are quite complicated but it is best to be aware of them now so that there are no nasty inheritance tax implications further down the line.

@heyday the threads moved on a bit

I'm a bit worried about all these pregnancies so close together, especially when she's had hard births.

Do you think you could ask her how many children she and LB want to have together? If she says only 3, then it may be worth saying to her (after DG3 is born) that she might want to think about getting a copper coil, and see what she says. Because I'm worried that LB is trying to keep her 'barefoot and pregnant' too further isolate her, as with more and more babies she'll be too exhausted to do anything else (eg teach, meet up with people, etc). I say a coil, because it's more long-term, just in case LB would forbid her taking the pill.

There is a term for it, but I can't remember it. "Coercive reproduction" or something like that.