SIL and money issues

[ChopinandChampagne]

I recently lost my DH and I thought that it would be nice to give some money to my DGDs, both toddlers, to set aside for their future as a gift from him. Realistically, they will not remember him, but I thought that if they have some money to spend on travel or driving lessons or to help with their university costs or whatever, they would think of him and know how much he loved them, even though he didn't live to see them grow up.

I did some internet research and the suggestions were for a Junior Isa, which a parent would need to set up, and I would then pay into, and the child could access at 18. Alternatively, a savings account, which I would be able to set up as a grandparent, as long as I produce a copy of the birth certificate, which the child can access and take over at 16.

So far, so good and, I thought, relatively uncontroversial, so I suggested it to my DD and said that I wanted to give each of the DGDs £10k from DH and the options. I said that I wanted it to be a separate account and that suggested that she open a Junior Isa or that I should open a savings account. Her response was that she would have to discuss it with SIL and I said fine, thought no more it. Then, I sense that there is a bit of tension and DD says she wants to set up a telephone call with both her and SIL one evening, to discuss the matter after the DGDs are in bed. This was a text, so I reply saying fine, is now a good time, but DD said not, but we could schedule a couple of days later, but only if she has completed her coursework for her studies.

Then, a couple of days ago, I receive an email from SIL, from whom I never hear anything direct, advising me that if I really want to put money in an account, he will open one, but that he thinks that it is a bad idea, as inflation will erode the money. He thinks I should invest it in gold bullion or some other specific account (he says he has recently opened one for DD), and he provided links to various websites.

The tone of the email comes across, not as friendly advice, but telling me what to do. I have said that I will have a rethink, but I am worried about offending him if I don't follow his advice. I feel that he is trying to control how I invest the money. He refers to it as my wanting to invest for the DGD's future, which it is partly, but it is also about wanting the DGDs to remember or be reminded of DH. I don't really want to invest in bullion, as I think it's a bit volatile, and the idea of a bank account is that the DGDs would get the bank statements and maybe learn how to save.

Does anyone have any advice on how best to handle this diplomatically? There is quite a bit of history with SIL (Lobster Boy for those who remember my previous threads), but things are on a reasonably even keel at present and I currently have a good relationship with DD, which I don't want to upset. She says that there is no rush to decide how best to invest the money, it is important to get it right.

Not to mention pay per view from GP’s

Thank you so much for your replies and, as ever, you have given me much to think about. I know that I need to confront some uncomfortable truths and some days I sort of can, but other days I find it very difficult.

I mull over what you say, over and over, to the extent where I can find it difficult to reply for a while.

I haven't heard anything further from DD1 and I know it's not long, really, but I am always worrying if there is more behind it. Except on the days where I don't care about anything much at all. Not intending to be self pitying, but I thought I was doing so well, but seem to have hit a second wave of grief recently. I know it's normal and I have so much to be grateful for, but I miss DH terribly. I miss his calmness and his wisdom.

I hope that DD1 will be ok, I really do, and it goes without saying that I will always love her. But we have been so disconnected over the last few years, and I grieve for the loss of the relationship which I thought we had. I also grieve that DH will never know this latest DGC, and grieve that he didn't know DGD1 until he was dying. The saddest words are 'too late'. And I wonder if DD1 feels that. Not that I want her to suffer but just to think that she cares. She seems to care when her sisters don't seem to be interested in her and her family, but doesn't show concern for them. And it is the knowledge that LB decides the extent of the relationship that makes me so 'on eggshells' as a previous poster says, and why DD2 and DD3 don't want to be involved.

I wonder if DD1 thought that by having DGC3, she could start again, wipe the slate clean, that we would all be excited as we would have been excited about DGD1 if we had known. DH and I could have had such shared joy, instead of what was, and of course I have a lot of feelings about this baby that DH did not know about. It sort of accentuates what he missed, what we both missed as GPS together, and I mourn all of that, although it is futile to do so.

I can't say, we can't say, what a shame, so sorry but, what was, is in the past, let's move forward, because that's not on the menu. And thank you Ssslou for your brilliant analogy of the Sunday roast.

Thinking about it, I am not at all sure that I want to visit them, and I know that it will be uncomfortable in some respects. But I don't want not to go and I do love my daughter, who does say things, from time to time, which make me believe that she loves me too. That's the thing about love - it brings joy but also pain. It may be at rite saying but one which resonates with me at present.

So sorry you are feeling so down but it's natural. If you hadn't loved so deeply your grief would not be so painful.

DD1 and LB are still reeling you in and then letting you down.

So many posters have advised you to step away and concentrate on the two lovely daughters who have given you great love and support ( reciprocated by you ).
I think it's great advice.

I have my concerns that the roast is a reeling expedition. You will be informed over that dinner what you are expected to provide next.

Out of interest, how many people is she going to feed on a roast quail ?

Not intending to be self pitying, but I thought I was doing so well, but seem to have hit a second wave of grief recently. I know it's normal and I have so much to be grateful for, but I miss DH terribly. I miss his calmness and his wisdom.

Oh Chopin your grief is palpable. Your lovely DH was your rock, balance and comfort during the many long painful years with DD1 and the decades of joy before that. His presence always comes across in your posts as a beautiful, respectful and compassionate man.

His sudden illness and the last year was so rapid you are probably still in deep shock. Maybe ricocheting between feeling this is both unbelievable and unbearable. Sometimes grief can get worse before it gets better and is rarely linear - more like huge waves as you say. You don’t need a single ounce of extra stress at this the most difficult time in your life.

There is nothing self pitying about feeling and expressing your grief. You don’t have to be doing well - self compassion is a really important starting point so that you can then give yourself some much needed self care - and reach out for it from others.

I can see that this new baby represents many different emotions and bitter sweet hopes for you at a time when you are very raw and vulnerable but it’s important not to expose yourself at this time to any unnecessary stress and pain. I hope that you can give yourself permission to know that you can bow out of this trip or cut it short or go back to your hotel if at any moment you feel overwhelmed, uncomfortable or under threat.

Often if you have an escape or time out plan in place ahead you can cope.

I hope that any crumbs you salvage from this trip are worth it and don’t cost you emotional pain. I hope that you are realistic that they have not changed but you have changed as you are more vulnerable right now.

Is there a neutral friend who could go with you? Even if they didn’t take part in some or all of the trips but hung out in the hotel so at least you had someone for support and comfort at different times of the day. Or even if they did accompany you on some of the day trips - it would be good to see how SIL/DD1 behaviour shifts or not in the presence of another.

How do you think that DD1 is processing her grief for her father? Does she talk about him much or her grief - or is there no space for her to feel, express or process it in the busy cold life she leads with LB?

Hope for the best but prepare for the worst is the only way to deal with this maybe. I think @Justilou1 has a point - expect the grifting to continue.

Not intending to be self pitying, but I thought I was doing so well, but seem to have hit a second wave of grief recently. I know it's normal and I have so much to be grateful for, but I miss DH terribly. I miss his calmness and his wisdom.

Apologies I intended to bold your words.

This is a situation of layer upon layer of loss and grief all compounding each other.

Loss and grief for your DH, for the future you should have had with each other, for your DD1, for the time and experiences she withheld from you and your DH and the emotional injury she inflicted on you both that cannot be rectified.

And then the DGC - the more babies she has the greater the loss for you - as it is a traumatic reminder of her (him) keeping you away from new born DGD2 for over 2 months .... that was a shocking thing to have done on top of not telling you about the existence of DGD1 until she was 14 months and not meeting her until she was nearly two.

And then for DD1 to let slip that LB sister saw DGD2 when she was a day old without any reference to what she did to you and your DH.

She has some level of convenient and protective amnesia or cognitive dissonance. I suppose it would be too painful for her to look truthfully at her actions.

They really have inflicted emotional violence on you and no doubt will do it again. Please be careful. This is who they are.

I think it is only reasonable to miss your beautiful husband at times like this, @Legs. Who else would you want to share this news with? If it was a more “normal” situation, you two should be sharing the joy of a new baby together... I’m so very sorry he’s not there to lean on, but I am sure his thought would be the same and you could tell us what he would say in this situation.

Ack - I meant @ChopinandChampagne!!! my dog jumped on me!

Thank you Ssslou for your kindness and taking such time to reply to me. It really helps.

Anyway, here's some more positive news for a change. DD2 has a boyfriend, DD3 and I have met him, and he is lovely. Ironically, he has the same name as LB, but could not be more different, at least at first sight. He is someone she has been corresponding with and talking to for a few months and there have been several open air dates, because of Covid. I knew DD2 liked him a lot and was also keen for him to meet us. I am pleased today that it seemed to go very well, at least DD3 and I think so, and apparently he likes us a lot too.

I feel so relieved this morning and so pleased that DD2 has something in her life to make her happy after such an awful 16 months. I actually became incredibly stressed and anxious over the visit, partly because I am out of touch with meeting people, mainly because I so wanted him to be a decent, kind person who would treat DD2 well, but this visit has also made me realise just how deep were the cuts and the damage caused by the situation with DD1. DD2 realised this - she is very perceptive - and said not to worry, that I would like BF - and I did.

But the level of anxiety, which I tried to conceal, was utterly excessive. It was all so triggering, and I now realise that I feared, deep down, that I might lose another daughter. I know it's silly, that DD2 is not at all like DD1, that her BF is not at all like LB, the situation is entirely different but still, I was genuinely terrified and so nervous. I hadn't realised how much my confidence has been dented by all that has happened. In the past, I would be relaxed and confident about the DDs having their friends round and, hand on heart, they always liked me and DH (or at least they were polite enough to say so - and they always seemed to want to visit us).

I haven't decided about the trip to see DD1. I haven't booked yet and told DD1, which is true, that the summer rail timetable isn't out, so I can't make plans, although it will be in a few days. Perhaps DD2 would come and we could make it into a bit of a break. I am actually quite anxious about going alone, although I don't want DD1 to think I don't care. I don't know how she is processing grief over DH's death. She is always happy to talk about him but, again, she seems to have reinvented the narrative in her own head, and speaks about him as though there had never been any rift. She speaks of him with love and recalls lots of happy events from childhood. I haven't received any sense of sorrow or regret at the time she lost with him when she cut us off, or of the pain which she caused to him. I still remember his lovely kind face and the pain and bewilderment when she failed to respond to his calls and messages. It is hard to forget, but I know that he would not want any rift to continue, he told me that he had come to terms with it all. He wasn't someone to bear a grudge and he loved all of his DDs very much.

I will talk things through with my therapist again tomorrow. Now that I know that I am not wanted on DGD1's birthday, I suppose it doesn't matter about dates, so there is no need to put pressure on myself. Maybe I should get the first wedding anniversary out of the way first, as I know that it is going to hit me hard.

You are right that the baby has conjured up a mix of emotions. DD3 was telling me about a vivid dream which she had last night where DH was there, and there was a baby which vomited over them. She then woke up and felt 'punctured', as reality hit her that DH was not here. I don't think she connected the dream to DD1, but I can't help thinking that it was symbolic. And that's the sad thing, a baby in these circumstances could be so healing and unifying, but sadly I don't think we can depend on it being so. I thing DD2 and DD3 are also afraid of being hurt again, which is why their response to DGC3 has been muted.

Justilou, thank you for your kind words. I think DH would have been very happy at the news about DGC3 but would have thought that it a lot for DD1 to cope with.

@ChopinandChampagne, the new baby news may be forcing DD3 to Realise (and finally come to terms with) the fact that her darling DF won’t be there when she has babies. She probably has very strong feelings about that and the opportunities your DD1 threw away instead of spending it with him while he was still with you all.

Maybe Justilou, although she says she is happy with her cat!

Mix56 - I don't know how many the quail will feed . Generosity is not something which they exhibit. Last year, DD1 did not bother to send a card for Father's Day, even though she knew that it would probably be his last one. For his birthday, which was five weeks before his death, when he was very poorly, they gave him a second hand paperback about deaths in Russian gulags....

LB doesn't approve of spending money on gifts, even for DD1, whereas she used to be quite generous. Their first Christmas together, she was told that they were not allowed to spend more than £5 on each other and I don't think he bothers at all now. She has bought into the philosophy that cards and gifts are unnecessary, although she sort of gets round the ban by making things, such as the sweet treats on my birthday, into which she had clearly put a lot of thought and time. She realised I was upset she hadn't sent a Father's Day card to DH. last year, so sent him some cuttings from the garden a couple of weeks later. She now sends home made cards by the DGDs, which I appreciate.

@ChopinandChampagne

Maybe Justilou, although she says she is happy with her cat!

Mix56 - I don't know how many the quail will feed . Generosity is not something which they exhibit. Last year, DD1 did not bother to send a card for Father's Day, even though she knew that it would probably be his last one. For his birthday, which was five weeks before his death, when he was very poorly, they gave him a second hand paperback about deaths in Russian gulags....

LB doesn't approve of spending money on gifts, even for DD1, whereas she used to be quite generous. Their first Christmas together, she was told that they were not allowed to spend more than £5 on each other and I don't think he bothers at all now. She has bought into the philosophy that cards and gifts are unnecessary, although she sort of gets round the ban by making things, such as the sweet treats on my birthday, into which she had clearly put a lot of thought and time. She realised I was upset she hadn't sent a Father's Day card to DH. last year, so sent him some cuttings from the garden a couple of weeks later. She now sends home made cards by the DGDs, which I appreciate.

You need to grey rock DD1 regarding finances, and not discuss them at all. Focus on your other daughters and remember that when / if DD2 has kids those children will be a lot closer to you and you will naturally want to help them more and there’s nothing wrong with that. But DD1 shouldn’t feel she has any right to question those decisions - she removed herself from your lives on purpose and has purposefully cut you off from the dgd, so she needs to accept there are things she’s no longer entitled to. Your money and your time are two of those things. You absolutely need better boundaries

a second hand paperback about deaths in Russian gulags
That has made me cry.

So LB has banned spending money of gifts yet believes he is entitled to huge gifts like a mortgage free house gifted to him?

Sorry to intrude, I have been following your threads for a while.
I'm very sorry that you lost your dh and that dd3 has been unwell.

Your updates recently got me thinking about your relationship with your dd1. As much as I can see you want to do right by everyone it is you that seems to be suffering.
I had a similar relationship in my life where all correspondence and conversations were twisted by a 3rd party and drove my mh into the ground. I was constantly second guessing what I was saying and try not to add fuel to the fire.

Regardless of how you behave or how much you give LB it will never be enough and he will always have her ear to twist everything. It's a power play for him.
In the end I had to take a step back and go NC.
Things are better now and there is communication again after close to 8 years.
But he missed my wedding and his second grandson being born and all the bits between.
I can take or leave the relationship now. It doesn't have an impact on my day to day life.

It really is like DD1 has joined a cult.

That is probably what we all said way back at the start of all those trauma years ago.

Really hope it wasn’t the book by Solzhenitsyn. Very insensitive, cruel even if it was.

She speaks of him with love and recalls lots of happy events from childhood.

She has bought into the philosophy that cards and gifts are unnecessary, although she sort of gets round the ban by making things, such as the sweet treats on my birthday, into which she had clearly put a lot of thought and time. She realised I was upset she hadn't sent a Father's Day card to DH. last year, so sent him some cuttings from the garden a couple of weeks later. She now sends home made cards by the DGDs, which I appreciate.

These are important glimmers of hope in this situation. It indicates that she is working around LB’s “rules” to express her love to you all. She did behave shockingly to her father in the last years of his life BUT maybe it’s more important to preserve and continue to illuminate and recall the joyous loving childhood she had with him because these are the memories that will help her draw contrast when it becomes obvious that LB is a cruel, cold, misogynistic father - which will all come through as he raises his daughters. Parenting is trying for the best of us - he will not cope with the patience and lack of control over young children. This is when DD1 will see the true him. She currently tolerates his coercive control and abuse to her but when his crackpot intolerant harebrained parenting ideas start emotionally impacting her DC she will resist and crack because she knows what good looks like. So maybe keeping those images vivid and alive for her will benefit you all in the longer term.

I am glad you are not 100% committing yourself to the visit right now because you have quite a few big waves coming in the next 6 months - Father’s Day, wedding anniversary, your DH birthday, the reliving of the events in the weeks up to the first anniversary - maybe there are other birthdays and significant events that will also be v hard for you. Even if you didn’t have to endure even one of these dates over the next 6 months - your raw grief is more than enough for you to attend to and cope with right now. Put processing and supporting your grief front and centre at least for the next 18 months. It’s unpredictable and exhausting - and you likely won’t have any further emotional capacity for even minor additional negativity. So don’t take on too much or expose yourself to any risks at this especially vulnerable time. Of course go if you feel up to it on the day but be comfortable to change plans if you feel a wobble and let DD1 know it’s all fluid as you are struggling.

It’s lovely that DD2 has a boyfriend that brings her happiness at this difficult time and it must be lovely for you to see her continue to engage positively with life with a kind and respectful man. Your anxiety was understandable given your experience and exposure to the trauma of the LB situation which continues to plague your life. But it’s nice that lightness can grow and other happy future chapters can fill some of the void and provide bright contrast.

However I wonder if asking or taking DD2 with you to visit would be helpful to the over all dynamics or even fair on DD2. It might be prudent to keep DD1/LB compartmentalised and not become triangulated with DD2 which may infect your relationship with her or trigger jealousy in DD1. But they are just my random thoughts that may be way off beam.

Keeping everything v simple, detached, vanilla and grey rock is the only way to maintain unbroken contact with your DD1 but it’s more important that you don’t let it consume you and hurt you any more than is necessary as you have your own own emotional life to attend to as well as lots of opportunities for love, warmth and joy with other people in your life.

Sorry again - first two paragraphs were to be bold as your words

Chopin lovely to hear that you had a good meeting with DD2 s new boyfriend - of course he liked you. Why wouldn’t he? You are a lovely person and anyone would be lucky to know you 💜
It just shows, as you have noted, how DD1 snd LB’s treatment of you has eroded your confidence and self esteem .
You feared that you would lose another daughter this way but of course you won’t. For one thing your other daughters sound so very different from their sister and also most people are not like LB thank goodness !! .
I understand your fear though. I had similar .

Hopefully as things start opening up and you are able to socialise more you will regain your confidence and DD1/LBs behaviour will become less prominent and significant in your mind . It will be replaced by all the lovely positive interactions you will have.

I remember you writing about your poor DH s disappointment as DD 1 ignored his messages . Sometimes it hurts even more to see someone you love being hurt . 😢 I hope the fact that there was a reconciliation of sorts before he died is of some comfort to you when thinking about your DH s disappointment ,

The rewriting of history is very hard to get your head around isn’t it? I don’t think I’ll ever understand it .
My therapist told me to not even try !

Anyway I think you do sound stronger today I hope I’m not wrong .

Oh and I’m with DD3 cats are the best 🐱 xxx

@Mix56

a second hand paperback about deaths in Russian gulags That has made me cry.

Agree. So calculated and callous.

Their £5 rule didn’t apply when they snatched the iPad.

I had to look Gulags.

Beyond vile and cruel to give that to your lovely DH

Well DD2's boyfriend sounds like a breath of fresh air! Must be nice to have a happy story! As for the gulag book! OMG! What was she thinking? Do you think she had a clue, or did she just like the cover and think it looked/sounded intelligent, perhaps? That one's a doozy.

I have been thinking that perhaps you should make her chase you.... Be VERY busy over the summer, with lots of lovely, exciting things planned with your DDs and friends where you live... (even if it's not true.... write a list and have it near the phone.). Be evasive and non-committal. See how that works for you. You know that she and LB think you're utterly desperate to see the babies at all costs (you probably are) and will pay through the nose to do so.... Try a little reverse psychology and see how this works for you. They may not notice the first couple of phone calls, but when they do, they will panic.