Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

SIL and money issues

1000 replies

ChopinandChampagne · 24/01/2021 13:01

I recently lost my DH and I thought that it would be nice to give some money to my DGDs, both toddlers, to set aside for their future as a gift from him. Realistically, they will not remember him, but I thought that if they have some money to spend on travel or driving lessons or to help with their university costs or whatever, they would think of him and know how much he loved them, even though he didn't live to see them grow up.

I did some internet research and the suggestions were for a Junior Isa, which a parent would need to set up, and I would then pay into, and the child could access at 18. Alternatively, a savings account, which I would be able to set up as a grandparent, as long as I produce a copy of the birth certificate, which the child can access and take over at 16.

So far, so good and, I thought, relatively uncontroversial, so I suggested it to my DD and said that I wanted to give each of the DGDs £10k from DH and the options. I said that I wanted it to be a separate account and that suggested that she open a Junior Isa or that I should open a savings account. Her response was that she would have to discuss it with SIL and I said fine, thought no more it. Then, I sense that there is a bit of tension and DD says she wants to set up a telephone call with both her and SIL one evening, to discuss the matter after the DGDs are in bed. This was a text, so I reply saying fine, is now a good time, but DD said not, but we could schedule a couple of days later, but only if she has completed her coursework for her studies.

Then, a couple of days ago, I receive an email from SIL, from whom I never hear anything direct, advising me that if I really want to put money in an account, he will open one, but that he thinks that it is a bad idea, as inflation will erode the money. He thinks I should invest it in gold bullion or some other specific account (he says he has recently opened one for DD), and he provided links to various websites.

The tone of the email comes across, not as friendly advice, but telling me what to do. I have said that I will have a rethink, but I am worried about offending him if I don't follow his advice. I feel that he is trying to control how I invest the money. He refers to it as my wanting to invest for the DGD's future, which it is partly, but it is also about wanting the DGDs to remember or be reminded of DH. I don't really want to invest in bullion, as I think it's a bit volatile, and the idea of a bank account is that the DGDs would get the bank statements and maybe learn how to save.

Does anyone have any advice on how best to handle this diplomatically? There is quite a bit of history with SIL (Lobster Boy for those who remember my previous threads), but things are on a reasonably even keel at present and I currently have a good relationship with DD, which I don't want to upset. She says that there is no rush to decide how best to invest the money, it is important to get it right.

OP posts:
LadyEloise · 07/05/2021 09:29

@Clutterbugsmum
Very good post.
I veer between sympathy for DD1 because she is in thrall to a horrible man and wanting to slap her ( not really ) for her nastiness towards her loving Mum, deceased Dad and sisters.

Sssloou · 07/05/2021 09:39

I think that maybe your DD1’s recent outburst is the repressed and escalating trauma and distress of living with an extremely coercive and controlling mentally unstable man that is overspilling and displaced as rage onto you and your DDs. He has been painting your family as black to her for many many years. She doesn’t even know which way is up as evidenced by not remembering that she was NC with you all when the DGD 1 was in hospital.

None of this excuses any of her behaviour but it might explain it. She is in the mental and physical grip of a very dangerous man. She is either not conscious of it or not capable of manoeuvring out of it.

Or that is all BS and the reality is that she is a nasty, malicious, money grabbing, exploitative, abusive, vexatious, cold bitch.

Her actions may currently be the latter - but I cannot believe that a child of yours is this at their core. Your DD3 said she was nice with her nice boyfriend and nasty with this nasty boyfriend.

Either way there is zero need or benefit for any of you to endure her behaviour.

The best thing you can do is withdraw neurally to protect yourselves and not get drawn into his nasty trap - and also not to be too supportive of the stress she finds herself in as this just inadvertently takes away the sting of him and keeps her there. She doesn’t need a spa break she needs full exposure to his nonsense with no other comments or people involved so that she will eventually see that it is him causing her the distress and pain.

This is very complex and volatile. Stand back and keep safe.

Clutterbugsmum · 07/05/2021 09:41

I have never been convinced that DD1 is in an abusive relationship, I think that they both have the opinion that their families should pay for their life choices. Hence the pair of them choosing not to work and wanting to 'live off grid' but still expecting others to pay their way.

Templetreeee · 07/05/2021 09:56

@Sssloou

I think that maybe your DD1’s recent outburst is the repressed and escalating trauma and distress of living with an extremely coercive and controlling mentally unstable man that is overspilling and displaced as rage onto you and your DDs. He has been painting your family as black to her for many many years. She doesn’t even know which way is up as evidenced by not remembering that she was NC with you all when the DGD 1 was in hospital.

None of this excuses any of her behaviour but it might explain it. She is in the mental and physical grip of a very dangerous man. She is either not conscious of it or not capable of manoeuvring out of it.

Or that is all BS and the reality is that she is a nasty, malicious, money grabbing, exploitative, abusive, vexatious, cold bitch.

Her actions may currently be the latter - but I cannot believe that a child of yours is this at their core. Your DD3 said she was nice with her nice boyfriend and nasty with this nasty boyfriend.

Either way there is zero need or benefit for any of you to endure her behaviour.

The best thing you can do is withdraw neurally to protect yourselves and not get drawn into his nasty trap - and also not to be too supportive of the stress she finds herself in as this just inadvertently takes away the sting of him and keeps her there. She doesn’t need a spa break she needs full exposure to his nonsense with no other comments or people involved so that she will eventually see that it is him causing her the distress and pain.

This is very complex and volatile. Stand back and keep safe.

I agree with this approach Op I hope its ok to comment?

Do not get into a huge, long text exchange but simply step out of the enabler role by replying.
" Yes, I agree, I will let you contact your sisters directly from now on.
Thanks so much for the gifts"

She is handing you the chance to step out of the enabler role which is being used to control ( let the dsis' know Im pregnant)and abuse, wrong foot you and them ( not good enough, they should contact me themselves etc)

She will expect you to be worried, flustered and is trying to manipulate you.
Does the treading on eggshells feeling ring any bells?
Take this "out" that she has given you.

Its clear that their behaviour will never change and its futile to expect this.

billybagpuss · 07/05/2021 11:12

@Templetreeee I feel I owe you an apology, my concern earlier was OP was getting a big pile on Re cancelling the phone contract and not proceeding with the meeting and she is in a vulnerable place at the moment with a million emotions going through her head. Sorry if that made you feel unhelpful 💐

The latest development changes things and I think your advice is spot on.

@ChopinandChampagne I do think you should take a step back and discuss this with someone IRL like your counselor before deciding your next step.

Templetreeee · 07/05/2021 11:19

[quote billybagpuss]@Templetreeee I feel I owe you an apology, my concern earlier was OP was getting a big pile on Re cancelling the phone contract and not proceeding with the meeting and she is in a vulnerable place at the moment with a million emotions going through her head. Sorry if that made you feel unhelpful 💐

The latest development changes things and I think your advice is spot on.

@ChopinandChampagne I do think you should take a step back and discuss this with someone IRL like your counselor before deciding your next step.[/quote]
No worries @billybagpuss Smile
Thank you

Crikeycroc · 07/05/2021 11:25

I am so, so sorry for the loss of your husband @ChopinandChampagne

Before I had even finished the first paragraph of your OP I knew it was about lobster boy. I read your previous thread and from time to time wondered how you were getting on.

I can only echo the advice of previous posters. Your DD1 is being manipulated and controlled by LB. All you can do is keep the lines of communication open so one day when she is ready to leave she knows she can depend on you. All the upset about DD2 and DD3 not congratulating her directly is rubbish. Her response is not rational. LB seems to undermine her relationship with her family whilst also keeping you close enough in case he can benefit financially from you. I really hope your DD finishes her course and has the opportunity to work so she can gain some perspective on her situation.

Mix56 · 07/05/2021 13:24

Of course it is possible that LB actually wrote the text....

Justilou1 · 09/05/2021 01:39

I think this is a typical narcissist opening line... Did you like the birthday treats?
“Yes, you know I did because I have already thanked you for them.”
It’s a “See? All the things I do for you, and what do I get back? Nothing!” Reeling statement. This makes me very angry.
Especially in light of the “Do you enjoy using the mobile phone I pay for and the iPad I bought?” comeback you could thwack back.
Also, you passed on a message to two adult daughters. She is capable of also contacting them herself. You are NOT responsible for what they do with the info. That is enough of an answer! I honestly think you need to start being firmer in your responses.

Sssloou · 09/05/2021 15:34

I think it could possibly be LB at the controls sending the texts - but who knows. Maybe safer to experience them as one enmeshed organism at the moment - he is certainly inside her head controlling her emotions, thoughts, behaviours and dictating and distorting her perceptions.

In a random way redirecting her/their focus by attacking DD2 and DD3 is testament to the good work Chopin has been doing for nearly 2 years now. The detach, vanilla, neutral, grey rock approach has left no purchase for them - Chopin is hermetically sealed so they slide off and have to latch on to something else. Although it’s exhausting for Chopin and painful underneath they will get frustrated and give up. I am sure that DD2 and DD3 have enough role modelling from their heroine DM that they will apply emotional intelligence and not get drawn in.

mcmooberry · 09/05/2021 17:31

You know, having thought about this, I think you should say to her something like "Look DD1, I am feeling very fragile about the loss of your father and having DGC is and should be a great joy and comfort for me, but not if I am not made to feel welcome in your lives and have to tread on eggshells round you as I just can't cope with that at the moment".

I am sorry to say that I fear your DD1 might be as bad as him in regards the taking money and not having a work ethic.

Nannyamc · 09/05/2021 18:42

Op my heart breaks for you. You are dealing with two narcissistic people.
Losing your husband your ally in all this is just showing how vindictive they are. I never discuss my children with each other i could never get involved in their relationships. It is up to them to make contact. You still.have a lot of life to live. They sound hugely hard come by and its their own fault. Step back and stop paying. Stay safe

chemicalworld · 09/05/2021 19:23

She is a grown up, with children, a husband and 60k in the bank, she can pay her own mobile phone bill.

I'm sorry, I feel so angry reading your daughters reactions, she is spoilt, warped and so selfish. Your worth is bound up with your two other.lovely daughters, she has made her bed and needs to learn that she doesn't get to spit her dummy out.and have everyone dancing to her tune, in case she and LB decide to act unreasonably again. They are both disgraceful.

NeilBuchananisBanksy · 09/05/2021 20:33

I think I'd say that 'we were following your lead and as you only told me directly we thought passing on our happy thoughts to you was also appropriate coming from me on behalf of us all.'

She can't argue with that and it reminds her that it's a 2 way street.

LadyEloise · 09/05/2021 20:50

Well said mcmooberry

DD1 seems not to have inherited the kindness and compassion of her mother and father,sadly.

You will never get past 0 ( zero ) as long as LB is in the picture. Is it worth all the pain and stress trying ?

May I ask where they got the £60,000 ?

Parsley1234 · 09/05/2021 21:08

LB rears his head again bless you Chopin it’s too rubbish for you all ♥️

ChopinandChampagne · 10/05/2021 08:25

Thank you everybody for your kind and supportive messages over the weekend. I also spoke to my therapist about the situation on Friday, who was similarly very supportive and helpful. I don't know what I would have done without that one hour a week talking to her, and without the advice and support of everyone on here. Sometimes, I feel that I don't know what normal is any more.

DD1 called on Friday afternoon and we had a long and positive/amicable conversation, ending with 'I love you' etc, so I put the 'phone down feeling happy, as I generally do, given that there is regular contact now. But, invariably, as I replay the conversations over again in my head, I feel less happy. Somebody mentioned the 'crumbs' being afforded to me, and it does sometimes feel like that. DD1 will say something or seem enthusiastic about something when we speak, but will then backtrack, presumably after discussing things with LB. The latest is the spa trip, which she seemed keen on a few days ago, but is now saying she can't do because of her pregnancy, so I didn't push it. I am not that keen on spas anyway, but just thought it would be an opportunity for us to spend some time together. However, I also thought that LB would block it, and I was not wrong.

She still seems keen on my going to visit and has said she will cook one of the quail for me.....! So we had an innocuous conversation about food and where to buy good bacon, how good her butcher is, how she might be able to sell the quail eggs there, etc. She seemed to want to avoid discussing anything unpleasant or controversial. By this stage, she had received DD2's message of congratulation about DGC3 and seemed reasonably satisfied, although thinks that DD3 should have sent her a direct message. I said words to the effect of that it was between them, that DD3 was pleased for them, but that there was 'a lot of water under the bridge' and we left it at that.

However, it seems that the news of DGC3 has not gone down quite as well with LB's parents and grandparents as they were expecting, not that they have been negative as such, but it has been suggested that it is very soon to be having another baby. DD1 was of the view that they should be grateful, as she and LB are probably their only chance of grandchildren. She was, as she has been in the past, impliedly critical of LB's sister, who has a career as a teacher, and does not seem keen on having DC at present. She described her as 'an eco warrior' and I don't think it was intended as a compliment. I made a vague remark about not everybody wanting the same thing and that LB's sister had plenty of time to have a family, if she wanted to do so. DD1 appeared somewhat dismissive of this, seeming to suggest that time is already running out for LB's sister, even though she is only 31and is in a steady relationship. Her BF is a pilot and they apparently like to prioritise holidays - she actually sounds like someone I would like to meet. DD1 says that LB and his sister are total opposites...

I said that I was looking forward to visiting and we will go for a family day out to a famous attraction, which they have not yet visited although it is nearby, as they did not want to spend the money. And yes I will treat them and no, I don't mind, it's what grandparents do. And it will be good to be busy doing something. And yes, LB is likely to be more receptive to my visits if there is something in it for him. DD1 also wants to go out for a Chinese meal with the DGDs, as she loves Chinese food, but they never have it, as LB doesn't like it.

So, as I say, it was all quite upbeat and positive, but I felt rather flat when I thought about it. I don't know why. DD1 didn't say anything unpleasant at all. It just seems a bit vacuous, that she wants a relationship, but on her terms - or to be precise, on LB's terms. My therapist just says to be pragmatic and go along with it, and I think she is right. I can't cope with any more distress or confrontation at present, I feel quite fragile, and what is the point anyway. I want something that I can't have, at least from DD1, although I am very lucky with my other DDs so, as other posters have said, I need to keep that in mind. Interestingly, I recall DD3 saying that she has had long conversations with DD1 in the past, but has subsequently felt that they were a bit 'empty', that nothing was left behind, which is partly why she can't really be bothered now.

SSsloou - it did occur to me that LB might have sent the aggressive message, especially as they regularly swap 'phones, so I made a point of texting as a follow up to the WhatsApp message and referring to it, both very positive, saying DD2 and DD3 were very pleased for her and LB. Hindsight teaches me, and my therapist advises me, not to give anything out that could cause problems or be a hostage to fortune. You are quite right that I should be 'grey rock'. something which DD2 also advises. I now, to a large extent, compartmentalise my relationship with DD1 and keep it separate from my other DDs. DD2 will occasionally ask how DD1is, but DD3 hardly ever does.

OP posts:
Beefcurtains79 · 10/05/2021 08:51

Interesting, the in-laws are really beginning to see them for the lazy, manipulative and arrogant people that they clearly are.
This will be really enraging them, as you are beginning to witness,- with your daughters competitive and bitchy criticism of their blood daughter.
I imagine your daughter and LB will start trying to play them off against you now, since they are apparently going cold on them. Refuse to engage and never be tempted to say anything derogatory about them at all. I mean they were apparently so wonderful that for the first 2 years of their childhood they were apparently the only grandparents their children needed, right?

Do they know that you don’t get child benefit for a 3rd child anymore? LB won’t have liked that, they’ll be searching for a loophole to exploit the system as is their usual MO.

You on the other hand sound amazing. You are a credit to yourself, your lovely other daughters and your wonderful sounding husband, dealing with all this whilst in unimaginable grief- your strength is truly admirable.

ThewaterlilliesofGiverny · 10/05/2021 08:56

Don’t mention lack of benefits for DGC3 as LB via DD1 will demand you make up the shortfall!

billybagpuss · 10/05/2021 11:03

Well done Chopin, so if you go for Chinese will you be allowed to go alone, it does seem that LB doesn’t like it when that happens.

RandomMess · 10/05/2021 11:14

I'm sure the ILs were initially thrilled that LB was off their hands with a lovely girl and now they are having to witness the reality of who LB really is.

I would consciously work on some stock phrases

All water under the bridge
Well you're both adults you need to speak to DD2/3 direct about that
Oh that's a shame it doesn't work for you
No-one thinks babies/children are as wonderful as their parents
Well you're at completely different stages of life aren't you
When they're parents they'll understand better

And so on

Detach detach detach

See maintaining a cordial relationship as a means to an end if DD1 ever leaves him she will know she can come to you and also when DGD leave home it's an opportunity to have a separate relationship with them etc.

Sssloou · 10/05/2021 15:42

Sometimes, I feel that I don't know what normal is any more.

You do know what is normal - and this isn’t it. You are dealing with a severe PD system. Normal social behaviours and normal rules don’t apply here - so don’t apply them or expect them.

It’s a very different dance that you need to accept and learn if you want continued contact with DD1. I won’t call it a RS because it isn’t one and that’s why you feel flat, vacuous, confused, empty because it’s not satisfying, wholesome, deep, mutual or even safe....it’s exactly “crumbs” but maybe once you know that and accept the limitations of this RS transaction you will reframe to manage your expectations and hopefully be less disappointed after each interaction. It’s like each time your heart bounces up hungry expecting a Sunday roast but you come away each time with a cold bitter vending machine coffee - and that’s on a good day - a bad day it’s thrown in your face. Get your emotional sustenance from other sources. It’s not available here - you are right you can’t have what you want. It’s not on the menu.

I think it’s interesting but predictable that she/they are now throwing their darkness on his sister and IL. However I wouldn’t even make vague remarks about the sister - because everything you say will be distorted and weaponised and then used to beat you. Give them no traction.

Resist, resist, resist ever giving an opinion or alternative view because this will always be taken as a “perceived slight”.

The content is never relevant it’s the pattern/emotion you need to identify and observe. It’s not the details of who, what, why, when, etc was said or done - it’s following the patterns of paranoia, feeling under threat, projecting and blaming and degrading everyone and everything they come into contact with - then the constant grifting - followed by constant disruption of anything YOU engage with or do.

Expect the dates, activities, meals etc to be messed about as he tries to vigorously rock the boat. If you are prepared and can go with the flow maybe you can deal with it better. I hope that you are not too fragile and are able to not get provoked or hurt or take it personally. Of course everything that they do to insult and disrupt you will be personal, abusive and hurt - that’s the plan - but if you can stand

Hindsight teaches me, and my therapist advises me, not to give anything out that could cause problems or be a hostage to fortune.

SortingItOut · 10/05/2021 21:45

@Beefcurtains79 They will get Child benefit for Child 3 but what they can't get is the child element for tax credits or universal credit.

Justilou1 · 11/05/2021 22:48

Part of me is thinking that child benefits are being utilised to turn DD1 into same kind of creature as the poor dogs she breeds. Human puppy farm.

RandomMess · 11/05/2021 22:56

It's also to keep her too busy, too stressed, too exhausted to pursue anything outside of motherhood and the house.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.