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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

SIL and money issues

1000 replies

ChopinandChampagne · 24/01/2021 13:01

I recently lost my DH and I thought that it would be nice to give some money to my DGDs, both toddlers, to set aside for their future as a gift from him. Realistically, they will not remember him, but I thought that if they have some money to spend on travel or driving lessons or to help with their university costs or whatever, they would think of him and know how much he loved them, even though he didn't live to see them grow up.

I did some internet research and the suggestions were for a Junior Isa, which a parent would need to set up, and I would then pay into, and the child could access at 18. Alternatively, a savings account, which I would be able to set up as a grandparent, as long as I produce a copy of the birth certificate, which the child can access and take over at 16.

So far, so good and, I thought, relatively uncontroversial, so I suggested it to my DD and said that I wanted to give each of the DGDs £10k from DH and the options. I said that I wanted it to be a separate account and that suggested that she open a Junior Isa or that I should open a savings account. Her response was that she would have to discuss it with SIL and I said fine, thought no more it. Then, I sense that there is a bit of tension and DD says she wants to set up a telephone call with both her and SIL one evening, to discuss the matter after the DGDs are in bed. This was a text, so I reply saying fine, is now a good time, but DD said not, but we could schedule a couple of days later, but only if she has completed her coursework for her studies.

Then, a couple of days ago, I receive an email from SIL, from whom I never hear anything direct, advising me that if I really want to put money in an account, he will open one, but that he thinks that it is a bad idea, as inflation will erode the money. He thinks I should invest it in gold bullion or some other specific account (he says he has recently opened one for DD), and he provided links to various websites.

The tone of the email comes across, not as friendly advice, but telling me what to do. I have said that I will have a rethink, but I am worried about offending him if I don't follow his advice. I feel that he is trying to control how I invest the money. He refers to it as my wanting to invest for the DGD's future, which it is partly, but it is also about wanting the DGDs to remember or be reminded of DH. I don't really want to invest in bullion, as I think it's a bit volatile, and the idea of a bank account is that the DGDs would get the bank statements and maybe learn how to save.

Does anyone have any advice on how best to handle this diplomatically? There is quite a bit of history with SIL (Lobster Boy for those who remember my previous threads), but things are on a reasonably even keel at present and I currently have a good relationship with DD, which I don't want to upset. She says that there is no rush to decide how best to invest the money, it is important to get it right.

OP posts:
Mix56 · 06/05/2021 16:55

or maybe it was just the money

Templetreeee · 06/05/2021 17:28

@billybagpuss

I don’t think it’s very helpful to all those advising *@ChopinandChampagne* to walk away there are far too many emotions at play, not least the original reconciliation that was a source of great joy for her DH and Chopin had his memory to respect as well as concern for dd1.

Chopin, I think you are doing the right thing keeping everything calm and consistent without giving too much of your heart. I would live your life as if the reconciliation hadn’t happened, so spend and enjoy the company of dd2 and 3 without feeling obligated to ask dd1, seeing and speaking to dd1 whenever you feel comfortable. You don’t need to keep things from her, and if they do withdraw again due to jealousy you can live with a clear conscience that you have tried.

No one suggested going NC. The suggestions are to stop paying the phone bill and go LC, for @ChopinandChampagne If not they will use any approaches to manipulate, dangling the dgc for example. They will NEVER stop and we will still be here in 2/3/5 years time. Thats the issue and I think its wise to remember that although it was her DHs dying wish, it takes both sides to fulfill that wish and its clear that LB and DD1 have no intention of respecting this. All the best Chopin I dont want to be unhelpful so will bow out.
Clutterbugsmum · 06/05/2021 17:36

The more you write the more it's just your money they want.

Even with the phone contract is keeping you in a state of fear. If you cut off the phone then you are worried that DD1 won't be able to contact you should she decide to leave. But she will never leave him, and if by the off chance she does they are many ways that she will be able to contact you.

I'm also guessing that the both have other phones that they use on a day to day basis anyway they just don't want you to know.

It's time to cut off any all monetary aid. Just keep to birthdays and Christmas. Because as soon as you do then they will crawl back in their hole and won't contact you until they want to try and get more money from you.

HollowTalk · 06/05/2021 18:39

After a few days, I received a reply saying that they preferred to spend DGD1's birthday 'as a family', as that is what they usually do, but that it would be 'fine' if I came the next day. This decision means that I will be alone for an additional day, a long way from home, at a time when I will be in deep grief for DH, when it would have meant so much to be welcomed and to see the DGDs, who are what DD1 has herself previously described as DH's legacy.

I would really struggle to get past that.

When your daughter said how sad it was her sister couldn't see the child, I think you should have said, "Well of course your dad was terribly upset that you wouldn't let us see your first child until they were 2 months old. He was inconsolable."

I know it's harsh but she needs to face the reality.

Another one here who's so sorry you lost your lovely husband. Flowers

ChopinandChampagne · 06/05/2021 19:42

Thanks so much, as ever, for your replies, your brilliant advice, and for your time. However, things have become a little peculiar and I am not sure why.

Going back to where I was, I really don't mind paying for the mobile 'phone contract, and I hope that I didn't sound petty in mentioning it. I want DD1 to be able to contact me if she needs to. I get the point about the iPad, but I think that the intention must have been to have downloaded things for DGD1 to listen to etc on the journey. I really want to help my DDs and DGCs any way I can, but I don't want to feel that I am being used or taken advantage of. I would do anything for them, what else would I do? My DH loved his DDs, and his DGDs, although he didn't know them for very long, and just wanted the family to be reunited and happy. I want to support my DDs in any way I can, in becoming independent adults. I love them all and I won't give up on DD1 but I don't want to be hurt again either; my reserves are quite low at present.

Anyway, yesterday I received a message from DD1, asking if I had enjoyed one of the birthday treats which she had sent me (which were lovely, and she had obviously gone to a lot of trouble, and I was thrilled, and had already thanked her for them). So I replied yes, thank you, lovely, and also that I had passed on her good news - my exact words were 'I passed on your good news and they were both very happy and send their congratulations'. She said did I mean A & B ie her sisters and I said yes, of course, I should have said so. By this time, DD3 had said to pass on her congratulations, so I thought it was a positive message.

So I was a bit blindsided by the reply, which was 'I think they should have sent a message themselves to be honest. I have texted them both recently with regards to medical concerns etc. I didn't hear anything when DGD1 was in hospital (which was two years ago, before we knew DGD1 existed). I hear nothing from them now. It isn't good enough. I don't know why I bothered. I did it mainly for your sake Mum but I shan't again if the relationship isn't reciprocated. Don't bother making excuses for them either please. I don't want to know', followed shortly afterwards by 'I don't want to hear their excuses because I find their behaviour inexcusable'.

I was completely stunned by this response, tried to call, sent a message saying I had tried to call, to which the response was that she was busy preparing DGDs' dinner, but would call the next day. I said that's nice and tried to call today and sent a message saying DD2 and DD3 were genuinely very happy for her and LB and, also, that DD2 was a bit cross with me for passing on congratulations before she'd had a chance to do it personally - which is true and I know that she has sent a nice message today. There has been nothing from DD1. I am really taken aback, wondering why she would be offended, hoping she is ok, it just doesn't make sense.

Sorry, this is all a lot of information and probably sounds a bit silly, but I am just genuinely dumbfounded. I haven't passed anything on to DD2 and DD3. I really don't want to be 'piggy in the middle', but I am so disappointed at this turn of events. I don't understand it at all.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 06/05/2021 19:55

How ironic, DD1 didn't tell them her good news herself but she demands they give her direct congratulations??

I think DD1 wants them to be doting loving aunts making a huge fuss of her and the children and she is angry that they aren't.

DD1 will always be looking for perceived slights from you and them and to justify why she cut you all off and why she carries zero responsibility for the past and the present.

RandomMess · 06/05/2021 19:56

Your DD1 is already an independent adult with her own houses, husband, children - that's why you continuing to fund her endlessly is odd.

Wherearemymarbles · 06/05/2021 19:59

Sorry to say Chopin i am not surprised at all.
Her response shows that what ever blame can be laid at LB’s door DD1 is not a victim in all this.

Her reply demonstrates that she expects fealty. She believes it’s perfectly acceptable to ignore her own siblings but woe betide those who ignore her.

Her response tells us more about her character than just about anything else you have written about her.

Its all about her and always will be. Best thing you can do in future - talk to her as if she was an only child and never mention anything about DD2 and 3’s lives. If DD1 wants to know its up to her to talk directly to her siblings.

If your instinct is to bend over backwards for them, their instinct will be to bend you till you break.

Walk away from this mess even if that sounds impossible

Sssloou · 06/05/2021 21:15

I am so disappointed at this turn of events. I don't understand it at all

You don’t need to understand it because it is insane.

It’s just more of the same - another punishment, slap, aggression - don’t concern yourself with actual words or specific incidents - they are not relevant.

Just look at the patterns of their actions and reactions.

They are just trying to rattle your cage - to provoke and goad you unto an emotional response that they can then feed off to prove themselves right.

Don’t get drawn in.

Distance. Detach. Dignity.

Don’t give them what they want.

They just like to agitate and cause drama and upset. They know no other way of behaving other than to twist and distort anything and everything to suit their malicious paranoid personality disordered narrative.

They are picking on the sisters now to cause stress amongst you three.

They are being actively decisive here.

Likely he is directly behind this - constantly filling her head with his warped dark view of your family and she is believing him like some cult experience.

And/or she is becoming more emotionally unstable as the pressure from him mounts and she is exhausted, stressed, overwhelmed and overworked.

She will be jealous of her sisters and their relationship with you.

Step away. You don’t need this nonsense and histrionics. Don’t let this dominate your headspace and relationship with your DDs 2 & 3.

Don’t comment, explain, or chase.

Just a “sorry you feel like that. I will let you get on with your day” etc.

Really this is not what you need to be exposed to at this stage of your grieving. Any daughter would be cosseting their widowed mother in a healing balm. This is what you need right now. Surround yourself with the radiant loving people in your life who can provide this.

Please take yourself out of punching distance.

Mix56 · 06/05/2021 21:16

Yes, saying you cant be there for DGCs bday as they spend it together as "family."

You are her mother, she is her DCs mother...What is that if not family?

billybagpuss · 06/05/2021 21:20

How far off your visit are you? Is this preparing the ground to cancel and was the message in her style or do you think maybe LB had the phone?

It does seem very bizarre.

billybagpuss · 06/05/2021 21:21

And @Sssloou advice is spot on, don’t get drawn into it.

Sssloou · 06/05/2021 21:35

@billybagpuss

How far off your visit are you? Is this preparing the ground to cancel and was the message in her style or do you think maybe LB had the phone?

It does seem very bizarre.

It looks like he is triggered about the visit and will enjoy the next weeks/months mauling Chopin , yanking her chain, punishing her as he becomes more and more dysregulated.

I wouldn’t be putting anything on text - he will be obsessing and mulling over every punctuation mark mining for imagined malice. Keep to FaceTimes or rinse and repeat vanilla and grey rock texts - “that’s nice dear” “Thanks for that speak later” etc.

Maybe just pretend to go along with whatever plans you have already made to visit, let them dictate and dick you about - agree to it all - knowing that you will cancel at the last minute (come down with D&V) you need to reverse out of all of this - it’s escalating again.

HollowTalk · 06/05/2021 22:17

Your daughter could start a fight in an empty room.

Why on earth didn't you say, "How could they send you a message about GD when at the time they didn't even know she existed?

I do think that Lobster Boy is weird and aggressive and attention seeking and entitled, but your daughter really doesn't come out of this well at all.

I think the only thing you can do, unfortunately, is limit what you tell her. Don't mention the spa day. Don't mention any money that you give to anyone else. Don't let her control you. I know she's your daughter and that you love her, but bloody hell she's become a right piece of work.

HollowTalk · 06/05/2021 22:18

I'm really sorry, I don't want to upset you, but each time I read about your daughter I get really angry on your behalf.

7yo7yo · 06/05/2021 22:26

I’ve read your threads op and felt compelled to reply to your last post. How dare she act the victim. Everything that happens has been by hers and LBs choice.
I think you are making a rod for your own back by being too accommodating. Stop being so nice. Stop pandering to her temper tantrum. She doesn’t deserve it.
She is as bad as LB I’m afraid and I think your blaming him as your scared to open your eyes and see what your daughter is really like.
You sound so so lovely but you also sound like Somewhat of a doormat. Please look after yourself and your own mental and emotional health. Flowers

Sssloou · 06/05/2021 22:32

They are being actively divisive here.

They have changed tack.

LorthernNights · 06/05/2021 22:37

“I didn't hear anything when DGD1 was in hospital (which was two years ago, before we knew DGD1 existed)”

This took my breath away as we were reprimanded for not asking how DD was after she’d had a shunt in her car months previously ( she was living miles away and we had no idea there had been any accident)
Even more bizarrely her BF ( who used to delight in emailing us detailing all our perceived failings ) wrote to tell us how we were destroying his relationship with his own parents and that it was because of us that he had to leave home aged 16 ! What he forget was that a, we’d never met his parents and b, he didn’t meet our DD until he was 20 .

It was at this point I realised that we were dealing with insanity and any attempts at reasoning were futile .

It seems you are dealing with similar Chopin and I am so so sorry 🌸

WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld · 06/05/2021 22:37

I think you should stop being a go-between for your DDs and let them decide if they want a relationship or not
Concentrate on your own relationship then there is less to beat you up about
Protect yourself x

Isthisit22 · 06/05/2021 22:39

You sound lovely OP and I think that's why you don't understand... But to all of us outsiders it is fairly obvious why this has happened: your DD1 is utterly self obsessed. Everyone has to dance to her tune all of the time. If you all don't fall over yourselves to congratulate her then it's not enough (probably nothing would have been enough)
I can't even imagine how hard this must be for you but all you will ever get from your DD1 is heartache . Better to detach and focus on your lovely other daughters.
Unfortunately by trying to ring her and sending grovelling messages, you are just rewarding her poor behaviour and encouraging her to treat you and her sisters in a similar fashion endlessly.

BluebellCockleshell123 · 06/05/2021 22:56

If she had wanted her sisters to congratulate her directly then why did she not inform them directly? If I recall, she specifically asked you to tell them that she was expecting another baby.

OP - I have name changed but well remember your earlier threads. You are far too nice and I do not think that you understand the darkness that you are being drawn into. Why would you chase and phone her after that terrible message? She is no doubt influenced by him but that message was designed to upset you.

Your DD and her husband are now actively trying to harm your relationship with your other 2 daughters. As an amazingly wise previous poster had said - detach and distance yourself from this. Perhaps you should allow a few hours for reflection before reacting to any of their communications.

I think it would be wise to cancel the trip.

Wherearemymarbles · 06/05/2021 23:27

The old divide and conquer technique.

You probably should have called her out there and then on her responses but you couldn’t as you knew you wouldn’t speak to her for a month.

DD1 is aware of this and will continue to exploit it. Easy for us to say but I really think you should go low contact until you are emotionally strong enough to assert your own boundaries. If DD1 disappears then thats on her, not you.

As a friend with a very wayward adult child said to me, as a parent you cant stop loving your child. It doesn’t mean you have to like them as a person though.

Skiptheheartsandflowers · 07/05/2021 00:03

I've read some of your earlier threads too OP. I'm so sorry for the loss of your DH. Flowers

As other posters are saying, step back from this latest issue. They want you to run after them and placate them and agree that your other daughters are somehow at fault. All in the service of putting you back in a less powerful position. Wait before you ever respond with anything else like this. Don't call and placate. Use lines like 'I'm sorry it's made you feel that way' and back right away.

I would now go non committal and vague about the trip and nearer the time I would say you don't feel well enough to travel so best to postpone. You've been thinking it will help you, but it'll open you up to more hurt at the very time that will be worse than ever for you.

Why do they need to know about any spa trip with your other daughters? How would they even find out, if you don't tell them? Doesn't sound as if your other DDs would chat to them about it. Go as you planned to and say nothing. I agree that you should move to maintaining light, happy superficial conversation but tell them much less about your daily life and life in general. It'll only be used against you.

tumfy · 07/05/2021 00:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Clutterbugsmum · 07/05/2021 06:25

Why are you afraid to get angry with her. You need to understand that your DD1 has chosen this life, she has chose LB. This is life she has chosen. And now she is rewriting history and gas lighting you and only be comforting her with the truth will it stop.

The easiest way is to be honest and to the point so she can not make herself the victim in this.

So I was a bit blindsided by the reply, Of course you were they like to keep you second guessing yourself.

'I think they should have sent a message themselves to be honest.

A quick answer to that would be something as simple as "will like you they are very busy and as I was texting you I passed on their congratulations".

I have texted them both recently with regards to medical concerns etc. I didn't hear anything when DGD1 was in hospital (which was two years ago, before we knew DGD1 existed) again a quick answer would something along the line of well we didn't know DGD1 existed, so how could they contact you about it.

"I hear nothing from them now. It isn't good enough. I don't know why I bothered. "Well after how you have behaved and treating them, it going to be awhile to rebuild your relationship with them".
I did it mainly for your sake Mum but I shan't again if the relationship isn't reciprocated. "Well that's your choice"

Don't bother making excuses for them either please. I don't want to know', "I not going to make excuses for any of you, you are responsible for both your own behaviours towards each others, and your choice in how you live your lives and your relationships between you."

Followed shortly afterwards by 'I don't want to hear their excuses because I find their behaviour inexcusable'. My reply to that would be "Actually I have found your behaviour inexcusable, YOU seem to want to rewrite history, YOU have chosen to live your life as you want and exclude us from it and that completely your right. But YOU can't complain that we did nothing or care about DGD1 when we knew nothing about her until she was X years old and we knew nothing about her medical issues, so how were we supposed to ask after her. And as for your relationship with your sisters, how do you think they felt when they kept trying to contact for years when you disappeared from our lives, of course you relationship is going to be difficult to rebuild, but if you really want one then YOU are going to have to put in the effort to do it.

And if it was me I would be inclined to say something along the lines of as you asked both mine and and DD2 operations went will thanks for asking.

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