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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What happened to men?

581 replies

AnotherStupidQuestion · 10/01/2021 12:40

There have been a few threads along this line recently. I don't have anything new to add really; I'm just surprised that there are so many crap men about.

I've been single for a decade. In that time, I dated a bit and had a few flings but nothing that constituted a relationship.

Even men who seem decent on the surface are hiding some deeply unattractive qualities just beneath the surface.

It's got to the point where, even on the Tell me about your lovely man threads on here, my cynical voice is asking, "But what do you not know about?"; "What's he keeping from you?; "What are you tolerating that I wouldn't?"

I know the answer is patriarchy and misogyny but I wonder how we, as a species, have become so dysfunctional that so many relationships are poor; so many women are prepared to put up with so much shit and so many men are just appalling? Yet so many seem to also want a relationship.

I don't hate men. I have a son and some very close male friends I have good relationships with. But i have given up completely on ever having a mutually respectful, loving relationship now.

Mens as friends, family, colleagues are great. Men in a relationship? Just no.

I just wondered how other people feel.

OP posts:
grassisjeweled · 10/01/2021 19:51

Basically, men can get everything they want from women without having to treat them with respect or commitment.

^

This. That's why the glass ceiling remains thick and blue. You do NOT see men standing up for women because men have it better than women. So much better. Why would they put themselves at a deficit?

Maca07166 · 10/01/2021 19:51

@goldielockdown2

All I can tell my daughters is to respect themselves and not let the influence of alcohol cloud their judgement

Seriously?! In the context of rape? Rapists should just stop raping.

Sorry I wasn’t referring to rape I was referring attitudes in general.
AnotherStupidQuestion · 10/01/2021 19:51

Women are just not discerning enough and there's therefore little pressure on the majority of these men to change their behaviours (or not start bad behaviours

And those of us who dont put up with it? Who would just like to meet someone decent and have a mutually respectful relationship?

OP posts:
grassisjeweled · 10/01/2021 19:52

Last post from me, but I swear to god men in their 50s and 60s are less entitled than others. They seem more respectful? Might be just me

PipTeak · 10/01/2021 19:55

Some gentlemanly types grass. But the OLD (online dating) types of men in that age group possibly worse! Exposed to open, entitled and deluded too as to their value ... it’s a car crash

PipTeak · 10/01/2021 19:55

Exposed to porn, sorry Gin

katy1213 · 10/01/2021 19:56

I'm more baffled by all the women who think that anything's better than nothing.

Unicant · 10/01/2021 19:57

'Basically men can get anything they want from women without having to treat them with respect..'

Thats a really odd and creepy view... do you think we should be bribing men to treat us well by withholding sex until they do? I won't be bribing anyone for anything ever. I honestly think altho some men are under pressure to act like all they want is no strings attached sex, that most men fo really want to be loved and form intimate emotional connections.
If you sleep with a man because you like him and you want to, but he then goes on to not respect you because of it, that is his flaw and his loss. Making men wait for sex doesn't make them into better men it just makes them behave better for a bit longer... id rather find put straight away if someone was capable with a real bond with me. I always slept with men on the first or second date. (If I found them attractive and wanted to obviously) Then you know if they are treating you with respect its because they really do respect you not ciz they are waiting for you to put out.

Pyewhacket · 10/01/2021 20:02

I don't hate men.

Yes you do.

Bree25 · 10/01/2021 20:02

I completely agree
I know quite a lot of men to be suffering from pretty grim addictions , cocaine , gambling or drinking , prostittues and Porn addictions
I’m of the same mentality of you that they all do it and some are much better at covering up. My partner was the most loving , caring loyal person ( or so i thought) Untill 11 years in I unravelled his cocaine habits and found messages to prostittues, honestly you’d have never thought it of him.
I don’t trust any of them
Having said that I know of some shitty women too

PipTeak · 10/01/2021 20:02

I'm more baffled by all the women who think that anything's better than nothing

The sex instinct
The Romantic instinct
The nesting instinct

Not even including the social pressures (older women dating I would say)

These are very strong - 20s to 40s.

I do concur with you, but that takes awareness.

If all the men around you are pretty shit, what’s an unaware but “hopeful” girl to do?

PandemicAtTheDisco · 10/01/2021 20:21

The nicest new people I've met in the last few years have all been women. There is a friendly woman who works at my local shop. I wish I was a lesbian.

I've gone completely off men and feel asexual these days.

Eng123 · 10/01/2021 20:29

It's true many men have faults but is it just that today its popular to call these out whilst ignoring that women have faults too - though I guess the church has been calling those out for years! How often is it that a colleague turns out to be someone you wouldn't spend time with out of choice? Maybe people have their faults regardless of sex and we should all be more open to the idea that we may have a few ourselves and try to recognise and improve those.

grassisjeweled · 10/01/2021 20:46

Sometimes I wish I was gay - especially when it comes to a life partner

Whatwouldscullydo · 10/01/2021 20:48

Sometimes I wish I was too. But id not know where to meet any women either so I'd be in the same boat anyway..

elwoodblues · 10/01/2021 20:49

There's loads of recent men out there. Maybe you should be asking yourself why you're only attracted to arseholes?

Can't really judge by posts on a relationship advice forum - it's obviously going to be full of posts about bad partners.

TonMoulin · 10/01/2021 20:52

*How do I treat women? Why women? Why not ask the question how do I treat people in

That comment is key for me.
H, just like some other men on this thread and in RL, seems to think he is a good man, is going overboard etc...
He is also always taking any comments that women are at the bottom of the pile very badly. Not all men blablabla.

My experience is that, those good men are still misogynistic. They just aren’t aware about it. Like H assumption that I don’t know what I’m talking about until he has checked (and yes I was right in about 90% of cases because iI shut up when I don’t know). He genuinely doesn’t realise he is doing that either.

Unfortunately I see misogyn behaviours in my two teen boys too. But the reality is that they are surrounded by that and it IS the norm :(

Lillygolightly · 10/01/2021 20:53

In regards to the porn and death grip mentioned earlier consider this....

A man is watching porn, he is turned on by the sex displayed, so sex is the turn on - the ultimate goal.

That same man getting turned on by sex via the porn he is watching develops death grip over time.

The point at which this same man comes to have sex with a woman, he has been visually and physically desensitised to the actual act of sex, the same sex that he holds as the pinnacle...the very thing he has been viewing, the thing that turns him on to watch, yet the actual reality of the act is disappointing to do because again he has desensitised himself.

This has got to be incredibly frustrating, and then who does this man blame:

The porn - nah he gets far too much enjoyment from that to point the finger there.

Himself - no that would be soul destroying, he’s a Man, and his junk works just fine and he can get himself off just fine.

So who ends up getting the blame - the woman....

Your not tight enough, your too prudish, you don’t dress up, you don’t give me enough oral, you need to loose weight, and whatever else he can come up to point the finger in any direction other than at himself.

Sex can be great on a purely physical level, but sex is so much better when it’s on a mental and emotional level as well. Sadly many men get stuck in just the physical element, and porn has a lot to do with this.

As a woman I can’t say what a porn addiction is like, and I can’t say that if I was addicted to it or watched a lot of it, it would alter that way I viewed or thought about the opposite sex.

What I can imagine though is that if porn is the very thing that provides you a fix, but also the very thing that prevents you from having healthy sexual relationships as being incredibly frustrating.

I also think if women en mass dumped all useless, disrespectful lazy men and ALL women refused to put up with such crap behaviour, I imagine there would be a plethora of sad lonely single men living alone with their porn, games consoles, and a few beers in the fridge. It’s so ingrained I don’t think there is any tonic sufficient enough to make these types wake up.

It’s not all men no, but there is a significant proportion who want to watch loads of porn, play endless hours of fifa/call of duty etc, have their vices turned a blind eye too, do less than their share of household/childcare responsibilities yet still want a partner!! They then also expect that partner to respect them, to want sex with them, and contribute equally to the finances. Do you know what, it’s not uncommon for a man to find this either.

For a woman who wants a man who is committed to her, who will share household and childcare responsibilities equally, who will respect and support her, is like finding a golden unicorn. Undoubtedly these men exist, but they are seemingly the exception not the rule.

It saddens me deeply to say this, I have DD’s and I worry for their futures and relationships. I am doing all I can to ensure they have strong healthy boundaries, know what red flags to look out for, and to make sure they know their worth.

EdwardCullensBiteOnTheSide · 10/01/2021 20:53

I know 100% that if anything happened between dh and I, then I'd be single forever. It seems like the men of today are all awful!

TonMoulin · 10/01/2021 20:55

@elwoodblues

There's loads of recent men out there. Maybe you should be asking yourself why you're only attracted to arseholes?

Can't really judge by posts on a relationship advice forum - it's obviously going to be full of posts about bad partners.

I think there many many more arssehole than nice men around. I also think you are more likely to be happy in your marriage if you are happy to be the wife and go along the traditional role of a woman.

Independant women with clear boundaries don’t do as well.....

AnotherStupidQuestion · 10/01/2021 21:05

Maybe you should be asking yourself why you're only attracted to arseholes?

Have you consideed that it is not possible to detemrine that someone is an arsehole before spending a few hours in their company?

I am many things but a soothsayer I am not.

OP posts:
AnotherStupidQuestion · 10/01/2021 21:08

Independant women with clear boundaries don’t do as well.....

Exactly.

OP posts:
FifteenToes · 10/01/2021 22:58

@grassisjeweled

If I ever became single there is no way I'd kill myself trying to get into another relationship with a man. Not a chance.

I'm almost 40 and the vast, vast majority of men I've met would cheat on their wives/partners given half the chance.

There's always a plea of 'not my dad, son, brother' etc etc but the fact remains is the majority of men I. E dad's, sons, brothers, are these shit head men.

Case in point is BIL, who I thought was decent, brought a woman on holiday with us, who turns out to be the 'girlfriend' of him and SIL! The 3 of them were having 3 somes all week!

How is that cheating?
Samedaysameshit · 10/01/2021 23:42

Surely the solution is to just not engage.
Come off OD and just get on with your life.
Must be better than all this bollocks.

RoosterTheRoost · 11/01/2021 00:12

@grassisjeweled how is BIL a “shithead” but SIL isn’t? They’re both in the relationship.

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