What happened to men?

[AnotherStupidQuestion]

There have been a few threads along this line recently. I don't have anything new to add really; I'm just surprised that there are so many crap men about.

I've been single for a decade. In that time, I dated a bit and had a few flings but nothing that constituted a relationship.

Even men who seem decent on the surface are hiding some deeply unattractive qualities just beneath the surface.

It's got to the point where, even on the Tell me about your lovely man threads on here, my cynical voice is asking, "But what do you not know about?"; "What's he keeping from you?; "What are you tolerating that I wouldn't?"

I know the answer is patriarchy and misogyny but I wonder how we, as a species, have become so dysfunctional that so many relationships are poor; so many women are prepared to put up with so much shit and so many men are just appalling? Yet so many seem to also want a relationship.

I don't hate men. I have a son and some very close male friends I have good relationships with. But i have given up completely on ever having a mutually respectful, loving relationship now.

Mens as friends, family, colleagues are great. Men in a relationship? Just no.

I just wondered how other people feel.

I split with exH 2 years ago.
The vast majority of childcare (and caring as 1 (at least) is autistic) falls to me.
The last few years together it became more and more clear that his role was to work, my role was everything else.
When I was heading for a breakdown his idea of helping was to kindly point out the jobs I hadn’t done, not to do those jobs or actually help, or even consider letting me have a break.

Life is so much easier without him as I don’t have any expectations that he might share even a quarter of the load.
He is now a bitter man who resents his money going to me, is upset at the diminished relationship with his children - whilst expecting me to facilitate what little he does. He provides maintenance, but tries to dictate what it’s spent on.
I’m now happy to be single, and will never have a relationship with a man again.

My circle of family/friends/acquaintances has shown me how rife misogyny is, and how unrecognised it is. Many women make excuses for men’s poor behaviour, even down to sexual assault - he was drunk, didn’t know what he was doing, he’s young, don’t ruin his life by accusing him....but that’s because as women we are conditioned to do that all our lives.

I'm sure there's just as many crap women, but since the majority of posters on here have male partners, they tend to get complained about the most. Go on Pistonheads or some other bloke-orientated forum, and you'll probably find the opposite.

There are a lot of men who really don't see women as "complete" human beings in their own right. You come across this a lot reading the Relationship board (men who just don't consider that their wife needs time to herself for instance) but also in real life. I never really see this the other way round. Yes, there are women who treat their husbands poorly but they don't normally do it for the same reasons.

@makeitsono2 I completely disagree with your assessment and if you read through the thread you'll read testimonies from 20 and 30 somethings too. The predicament of the OP has little to do with her age or progeny as like many others i have experiences ranging from aged 16 so these good men didn't get snapped up as though they were part of a limited offer range ...women have always had to sift through a lot of poor quality to find someone we deem acceptable, flaws and all.

The premise of the post may well have been to bridge the divide but you can't do that unless the other half of the equation wants it.

My assessment (and call me pessimistic) is at some point you need to make a choice...keep having these discussions and hope things will change or use every available minute of your life more wisely and focus on what you can control...yourself.

I haven't read the whole thread (will catch up later) but I agree with the PP who suggested a lot of men and women want different things.

I think decades past there was more of mutual benefit of being in a relationship whereas now we;'re more independent so both sexes have higher standards = more people deciding to stay single.

Is anyone else getting stupid messages from men on sites like Facebook (ie not dating apps) from men during lockdown? And then when you ask them why they are messaging you and to stop because its appropriate, some of them can turn quite nasty/aggressive?

I completely disagree with your assessment and if you read through the thread you'll read testimonies from 20 and 30 somethings too. The predicament of the OP has little to do with her age or progeny as like many others i have experiences ranging from aged 16 so these good men didn't get snapped up as though they were part of a limited offer range ...women have always had to sift through a lot of poor quality to find someone we deem acceptable, flaws and all

Totally agree. He posted that load of bollocks further up the thread but didn't get an answer first time round so came back round again, in case we didn't catch it the first time, to give us his profound view on what makes a relationship work, part of which appears to be that the woman should be under 45.

'I am MAN. Hear me roar! Rarr!'

@GreenlandTheMovie no but I don't put my face on social media for that reason. What I have noticed is during lockdown, a male friend who I see as a brothersas I've known him most of my life ...hinted he would like a fwb arrangement...it really was the last straw for me oh and I know his partner well to top it off!

The original OP seemed to me to ask how men and women could relate better to each other.

No it didn't:

I have given up completely on ever having a mutually respectful, loving relationship now.
Men as friends, family, colleagues are great. Men in a relationship? Just no.
I just wondered how other people feel.

I agree with you about women increasing independence as one solution. And I do accept that that would probably increase the number of men who buck up their game and behave better, although others would not bother and would just live without women instead. Maybe I was being too flippant about the sex robot thing.

FWIW, although I referred to them I'm certainly not a MGTOW-type. I don't hate women, and there's also a disturbing far-right connection with that whole culture that doesn't sit with me at all. I'm divorced but hold no bitterness about it, get on really well with my ex and we co-parent happily.

I just see so many women making themselves unhappy imagining that men are something that they're not and/or trying to change them, and figure it might be useful to hear from a male perspective about that. (It's only one of course, and you may find other men who believe something else entirely).

I don't have any skin in the game since as I said I'm not looking for another relationship. You can take what I say or leave it, as with anything on the internet.

[quote wherearthough]@GreenlandTheMovie no but I don't put my face on social media for that reason. What I have noticed is during lockdown, a male friend who I see as a brothersas I've known him most of my life ...hinted he would like a fwb arrangement...it really was the last straw for me oh and I know his partner well to top it off![/quote]
Its grim, isn't it wherearthough?

I must clarify that I don't even know these men. Occasionally one or two FB friends in common. Sometimes none. They are always British based.

I was wondering if FB had turned into some dating app during lockdown. I checked for that dating heart thing that I saw posters had mentioned on another page on the FB sidebar, but I don't have that on mine, so no idea its happening. Although a friend said that it has been happening to her too.

There was a particularly nasty one last night. Obviously I block them but I'm sick of it.

I like having my face showing on my profile photo but its a pretty bland professional shot and theres nothing on there to lead anyone on, high security settings with nothing else about me visible. I even use a play on the spelling of my name which isn't easily searched - think GggreenlandTthheMmmmovie.

Coming back to the original post ‘what happened to men’ begs the question when was the golden age of men.
1980’s, 1950’s.1800’s Iron Age!
I’m thinking not much has changed.

I know the answer is patriarchy and misogyny but I wonder how we, as a species, have become so dysfunctional that so many relationships are poor; so many women are prepared to put up with so much shit and so many men are just appalling? Yet so many seem to also want a relationship.

From the OP,
I think some of how we are feeling now is because of the massive shift of the last 50 years
Women gained some independence and the right to go for it alone. We fought for equality and have gained some (but not all). This means women look at things in a different way and expect a different behaviour from men who ... lets say haven’t evolved as quickly because that change looks like a loss.

But why are women ready to accept shity relationship? I’ve seen people talking a lot about trauma and how it’s transmitted through generations. There is also the fact women don’t always SEE the imbalance because it’s so normal that you don’t question it. I know I did and it took me a while to understand why I was feeling so uncomfortable with the status qo.

@GreenlandTheMovie I've had the same on IG. The desperation and entitlement of some them...a lot of whom were in relationships as well. Outwardly, these guys have the appearance of 'the good ones' too 🙄

I've done nothing at all to encourage them either. It honestly makes me despair.

Yes Greenland although not recently because I deactivated FB a couple of years ago (I still get DMs on Instagram, or dick pics 🤢). It was utterly bizarre, these random men seemed to think it was a pick-up site and their opening message would be full of entitlement. They wouldn't begin by saying something like 'sorry for the random message/ I know you don't know me/I hope you don't mind me saying' or such like, it would be straight in with an appraisal of my appearance followed by what they would like! With no thought that I might not want the same! I would usually block but sometimes I would point out I can see they have a wife or partner and then I'd get, 'oh we'd only meet for a friendly drink :)' and I'd think 'but we're not friends?!' disrespectful chancers.

I’ve had them too on IG.
And that’s knowing I’m only on there as a business! But one photo of me seems to unleash them.

There’s another thread running in mumsnet atm about OLD. A group of women, most of whom sound lovely, talking honestly about their experiences. The treatment they are receiving is shocking. I’m so sad for them, thankful I am currently not looking for someone, and angry at these horrible, soul-sucking men. Definitely, no matter how unpleasant some women can be, most do not deliberately set out to behave like that.

It is to do with the original post Samedaysameshit.

I'm don't doing online dating.

It doesn't get much more dysfunctional than contacting random women on Facebook for attention.

"You just popped up on my Facebook".

I got this delightful response last night from one whom I asked to stop putting love heart emoticons next to the very few public photos I have on FB:

Me: "Stop spamming my Facebook. Seriously uncool"

Mel sent Yesterday at 4:46 PM
"Eh"
Mel sent Yesterday at 4:46 PM
"Sorry about compliments. However its good I find out now your sense of humour. Yeah I deleted you. You need to relax and take compliment. Spam as if"

You sent Yesterday at 5:25 PM
"What sort of man behaves like this?"

Mel sent Yesterday at 5:27 PM
"For gods sake. Why don't you let it go. Wished you happy new year all hell broke loose! How did i behave that makes you so offended?"

Its running at 2 or 3 a week currently, and its 90% men that are 10-15 years older. I use FB for business as well so I can't come off it. Its incredibly annoying. What on earth is going through their minds? Do they think they've hit on some magic way to contact women after failing on OLD?

Its running at 2 or 3 a week currently, and its 90% men that are 10-15 years older. I use FB for business as well so I can't come off it. Its incredibly annoying. What on earth is going through their minds? Do they think they've hit on some magic way to contact women after failing on OLD?

I don't know how old you are, but a lot of mine are from younger men. I'm in my 40's but I've had messages from men who are in their early 20's right up to their 60's. I do think the line has been blurred a lot with the advent of OLD. It would seem if you post a pic of yourself, no matter how anodyne, you're somehow up for it and fair game. But yes, I'm also sick of men using social media as dating apps. It shouldn't need to be said.

I’m ignoring those @GreenlandTheMovie. Not going to give them the pleasure of having caught my attention for a whole 2 seconds

[quote DedlyMedally]@Countingthebeat
AFAIK most men do not rape, commit harassment (to the degree it is illegal) and are not violent towards their partners. If I'm wrong on this, show me.
Most men may use porn or cam sites and many women may complain about this, but conflating them with actual crimes is disingenuous.[/quote]
And once again you mininmise the dangers and harms of porn and cam sites to women . Why do you think an industry that’s been caught out literally time after time distributing illegal and demeaning materials AGAINST women and girls is simply ‘ something women complain about ‘ and equivalent to a man complaining his wife nags him to clean the yard or such . THIS is competelh disengenuous . Tell me what harms women are doing to men in relationships and equal in damage and scale to to harms of the porn industry . On what way are women dehumanising and demeaning men , supporting industries that have been in the news for posting men’s intimate images illegally and even underage images and abuse ?
Additionally no most me. May no abuse their partners but most abuse that does occur and their is a lot . Is at the hands of men . Stop minimising this also

Why do women keep searching for relationships when men are so shit? I read some of the dating threads on here and as an outsider the men that these women talk about are absolute wankers yet it’s “oh he texted me today I don’t know what to do” it’s obvious what to do because the guy it an utter bellend. These are women over 40 too so not desperate for kids. Just stay single. It’s much better!

It's awful that this decade, out of all the men I've met, I've come across only two who are not obnoxious arseholes.

Men I'm not even in relationships with. They just live on my road and like to pass comment and take ownership,of my drive etc. They hate me, it's as though they can sense that I don't give them automatic respect just because they are Menz. Same with the teachers at my daughters school. Male doctors at my go surgery, who I never see anymore.
It's incredible how entitled men are, and once you've seen it for what it is, you can no longer ignore it

I dont know if we can safely say ‘most men don’t Rape’ when you see the number of women who have been raped.

I’m sure there was also some studies showing how men are minimizing what they do, because that would be acknowledging that they raped a woman (eg I only pushed a bit to convince her to have sex afterall ). Or how men are likely to rape if they are sure they won’t get caught.

I think (at the risk of this thread becoming a misandryfest) there is so much dissatisfaction with our male interactions.

Most of my role models are women not because I haven't looked for male ones but even within my family out of say 40 male relatives, only 1 has been faithful to their partner!
Just imagine what women could create if we stopped craving relationship scraps and invested all of seeking, worrying and maintaining energy into nurturing and understanding ourselves??