What happened to men?

[AnotherStupidQuestion]

There have been a few threads along this line recently. I don't have anything new to add really; I'm just surprised that there are so many crap men about.

I've been single for a decade. In that time, I dated a bit and had a few flings but nothing that constituted a relationship.

Even men who seem decent on the surface are hiding some deeply unattractive qualities just beneath the surface.

It's got to the point where, even on the Tell me about your lovely man threads on here, my cynical voice is asking, "But what do you not know about?"; "What's he keeping from you?; "What are you tolerating that I wouldn't?"

I know the answer is patriarchy and misogyny but I wonder how we, as a species, have become so dysfunctional that so many relationships are poor; so many women are prepared to put up with so much shit and so many men are just appalling? Yet so many seem to also want a relationship.

I don't hate men. I have a son and some very close male friends I have good relationships with. But i have given up completely on ever having a mutually respectful, loving relationship now.

Mens as friends, family, colleagues are great. Men in a relationship? Just no.

I just wondered how other people feel.

Of course you benefited. You were able to work in a job that allowed you to shirk any meaningful lengthy responsibilities of your children so you could save up some money for a place that allows you to actually have responsibilities for your kids .

Do you think she had that option? Did she move the kids into grandparents 24/7 so she could work full time and save up sone money for herself ?

Everything you have done you were only abke to do because she accepted you not having the kids

I think we have ample demonstration on this thread of what is wrong with men.

One man has made the entire thread about him, and his perceived sense of victimhood, using outright lies to do so.

Maca you are the perfect example of someone who fluffed their marriage and now wants to moan about the consequences.

See my advice above and in the next life follow it. Being single trumps a shit marriage every time.

Having a wife with her own career and agency is good. Striving for a decent flexible job during your marriage is also good. I knocked a promotion when my kids were small so I could stay part time, my wife could stay part time and keep an nice equilibrium between caregiving and employment.

Notice how no one is attacking my stance on marriage/divorce? That's because my advice is good for men and women.

@TonMoulin

Lol, if you can still save that much money whilst paying said maintenance (only used by your ex for her benefit) then yes you are benefitting.

Because atm you have made no sacrifices to be a truly involved father. But you can still play daddy with your dcs.

Is your ex able to save £20k just like this too?

I can only save said amount of money because I’m 37 and living back home with my parents while said money is saved.

What’s a truly involved father in your eyes? I’ve laid out when I see my kids and I’m not an involved father? Because I know I’m a great dad and I love my dcs and see them whenever possible.

Personally I think your down right nasty to label me a not involved father because I’ve made no “sacrifice” in your eyes.

make

I've noticed it does seem strangely comman stance that throwing money at the situation is the answer..
If a dad pays then that's seemingly enough. They then tally up the hours in order to attempt to make it look like they are being really generous with the money. Ajd that money negates aby other meaningful responsibility. A couple of hours after school so what. Your neighbours teenager could do that. What about homework, reading, emailing the teacher if something is wrong, arranging their eye test or a trip to the dentist.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Of course you benefited. You were able to work in a job that allowed you to shirk any meaningful lengthy responsibilities of your children so you could save up some money for a place that allows you to actually have responsibilities for your kids .

Do you think she had that option? Did she move the kids into grandparents 24/7 so she could work full time and save up sone money for herself ?

Everything you have done you were only abke to do because she accepted you not having the kids

How have I shirked meaningful lengthy responsibilities because I can’t have them over to stay every weekend?

That’s the difference ? Really?

All this talk of how online porn has permanently damaged a generation is very sad and leaves me worried for my grandchildren. What kind of world do we want for the next generation? Is it too late to turn things around?

I consider myself so fortunate in that I can honestly say that I have never in my life (I'm 63) watched porn, nor have I ever wanted to. I did read a pornographic book once, in my late teens. It was called the Story of O. I read it out of teenage curiosity (saw an article about it in Cosmopolitan magazine I think). Anyway, I felt tainted by it and wished I'd never read it, I ripped it up and threw it in a litter bin.

I hate the thought of my little granddaughters being exposed to this tsunami of porn that seems to be blighting the lives of so many people nowadays.

Is there anything that can be done to stem the tide?

Just maybe there's an evolutionary jump occuring. Men are (generally speaking) morphing into a different species. And just maybe, women are too.

Well yes. Looking after children involves overnights. If you take a job that knowingly leaves u unable to take care of your kids then you have benefited. She can't do that can she? She has to be hone fir the kids. She can't just take over time. She cabt just say right I'm no longer having the kids becuase I need to work.

[quote rumred]@Misandrylovescompany quite.
Stop feeding him. It's that simple.
Back to the point. Misogyny and patriarchy are the issues I think. You wouldn't have the gross porn without the gender inequalities. I was brought up in the 60s and 70s and believe me men behaved no better.
Until we're all treated equally, none of the rape, murder, porn issues are going anywhere. And we all have a responsibility to tackle gender inequality. By not perpetuating the blue pink rubbish for a start off[/quote]
Agreed , it was an interesting thread exposing the realities of what women are really dealing with . X back to topic

@Whatwouldscullydo

Well yes. Looking after children involves overnights. If you take a job that knowingly leaves u unable to take care of your kids then you have benefited. She can't do that can she? She has to be hone fir the kids. She can't just take over time. She cabt just say right I'm no longer having the kids becuase I need to work.

Her mother is a child minder so that leaves a lot of flexibility in her arranging child care.

So overnight Stays is the only thing preventing me from being an involved father?

Wow I can’t wait to be involved father once I tick that box I actually cannot wait to be labelled an involved father once they are able to sleep over every week.

🙄

Women's forum.
Relationship board.
Most people are heterosexual.
You're going to see a lot of complaining about men.
You're delusional if you think that men don't take issue with their partners and women in general in similar numbers.

Life is so short (covid should focus the mind on this point) and I think expectations are the thief of joy.
Women need to readjust expectations of what men should be and a huge weight will lift.
Single women live longer than married ones for simple reasons.
Honest question if there were no societal pressures, no desire for children and an ample supply of free vibrators how many women would couple up???

Well thank you for proving the point.. shes fine because her mums a chikd monder and the pair of them cab sort it out so they don't eveb need you so aren't you amazing for picking them up from school

@Whatwouldscullydo

Well thank you for proving the point.. shes fine because her mums a chikd monder and the pair of them cab sort it out so they don't eveb need you so aren't you amazing for picking them up from school

Nice cherry pick.

Still am the absolute uninvolved father because they can’t sleep over once a week.

It’s nice to know what’s been laid out before me so I can tick that box.

Thanks again

I dodnt say you were completely uninvolved. But you are playing hard done by because no one pays you for having the kids for 2 hours after school when you have made no effort nor did it occur to you til January apparently to look fir a job that will allow you to spend more time with your kids.

The majority of men treat women terribly.

Where is your evidence for that?? That may be your experience, but anecdotes from yourself and your friends/family is not evidence.

My own anecdotal "evidence" is that there are "kinds" of men who behave in a bad way. Unfortunately, some woman go for the "bad boy" type of man, so will think all men are the same, but in reality, it's all men they're attracted to are the same, which isn't surprising really. It's the same way that some woman always meet men in the same places (i.e. pubs, clubs or OLD), so it's no surprise they meet the same kind of men.

And no, I'm not blaming woman for being attracted to the same kind of men, or trying to meet men in the same places, but that, in my experience, is the reality.

It's the old definition of insanity - doing the same thing but expecting different results.

@DedlyMedally

Women's forum. Relationship board. Most people are heterosexual. You're going to see a lot of complaining about men. You're delusional if you think that men don't take issue with their partners and women in general in similar numbers.

Perhaps men take issue but I do t think it’s for such things as using cam men , porn , rape , harassment and murder If so please provide stats to show women are committing such serious offences as these we frequently see men commuting against women and in anywhere near the same numbers Otherwise stop minimising the fact that men are the ones doing the VAST MAJORITY of porn , cam use , violence, harassment and murder

@Countingthebeat
The last 3 are crimes. I thought the topic was about relationship issues...
You are right, in that men likely complain about about different things to women.
Did you want a gold star?
If so

Most men I know would prefer a partner to pay her own way. Men/people in general don’t respect people who are dependent on them. Like, yes...respect, not so much. Unless they are madly in love (which fades after a while), paying for someone else becomes a burden.
Women want men to respect them? Don’t be financially dependent on them. The man might be the higher earner if the mother decides to focus on the childcare but she should still contribute something to the pot, especially when the children are older. Yes it’s nicer to be at home but don’t expect to be respected for it.
Marry a rich man and you’ll earn every penny!!
Harsh but true.

The thing is the old trope of "it's you not them" just doesn't ring true @user1497207191 when most women you meet share the same stories.

I have experiences dating back to my uni days when guys of friends would try it on, when I divorced my husband everyone from my exes relatives to dads at the school gate tried it on and don't get me started on the men I met whilst working in the square mile - all married or newly engaged.

This is nothing to do with available dating pools at 30 or 40+ and everything to do with male behaviour which hasn't really evolved.

If you interact in the same places, attract the same types of people then I agree ...your insanity analogy applies but when you have interacted with everyone from builders to bankers across 30 years, you have enough empirical data to draw your own conclusions.

I'm not blaming men- rather I think women's lives would be easier if we just accept the male phyche that applies to most (not all) but most men .
When someone shows you who they are believe them and move on ..your life is too valuable to waste on introspective analysis on things you can't control.

@DedlyMedally, yes the last 3 are crimes. But they still happen within a relationhsip. And they are representative of a wider issue.

eg rape is about the feeling of entitlment to sex (and the feeling of power). Do you think its nit also played within elationhsio jut thrugh sulking because he didnt have sex? And then the subsequent 'Oh things are so much better when we have sex regulary so I ensure we still have sex 3 times a week even if I only really feel like it 1x per week'. Also the 'well I am finding I am getting into the swing of things if I force myself to start (having sex)'

Physical violence and murder is the expression that men feel they are above women and they ought to get their way regardless (they would never do that to a man). See how much men actually put pressure on their partner and expect to get their way (aka cleaning should be done at the evel they want, he should be able to have as much leisure time as they want but no expectation that the woman should too etc....)

[quote DedlyMedally]@Countingthebeat
The last 3 are crimes. I thought the topic was about relationship issues...
You are right, in that men likely complain about about different things to women.
Did you want a gold star?
If so [/quote]
No just an acknowledgment that the things women are ‘complaining ‘ about are a hell of a lot more serious than most of the things men have to complain about .. and yes the last ones are crimes and unfortunately they happen a lot .. even In Relationship . Harassment in dating , violence in relationships rapes and murders ... actually women are MOST at threat from these things from the men they are in relationship with !!!! Amd interestingly a lot of it is played out in pirn also another major ‘complaint ‘ of women
So no gold star needed just an acknowledgment that women issues with men are farrow serious

Men/people in general don’t respect people who are dependent on them

Yep I agree with that.
The problem comes when they ALSO expect you to come second to their work, be there for the dcs and stop everything for them so they don't have to etc.... Whilst also having a major issue of said partner earns more than them etc...

What financial independence gives women is respect gained fron the ability to tell men to fuck off.
And tbh that is a very sad state of affair.

I'm not blaming men- rather I think women's lives would be easier if we just accept the male phyche that applies to most (not all) but most men .

This is really the truth of it. Men who are considered "good with women" are good at getting to the point of having sex with women. They have a lot of practice at initiating relationships this.
The corollary is that this often precludes an interest in maintaining a relationship over the longer term.
I think that is something that men, in general, do not really care about.