What happened to men?

[AnotherStupidQuestion]

There have been a few threads along this line recently. I don't have anything new to add really; I'm just surprised that there are so many crap men about.

I've been single for a decade. In that time, I dated a bit and had a few flings but nothing that constituted a relationship.

Even men who seem decent on the surface are hiding some deeply unattractive qualities just beneath the surface.

It's got to the point where, even on the Tell me about your lovely man threads on here, my cynical voice is asking, "But what do you not know about?"; "What's he keeping from you?; "What are you tolerating that I wouldn't?"

I know the answer is patriarchy and misogyny but I wonder how we, as a species, have become so dysfunctional that so many relationships are poor; so many women are prepared to put up with so much shit and so many men are just appalling? Yet so many seem to also want a relationship.

I don't hate men. I have a son and some very close male friends I have good relationships with. But i have given up completely on ever having a mutually respectful, loving relationship now.

Mens as friends, family, colleagues are great. Men in a relationship? Just no.

I just wondered how other people feel.

@Givemeabreak88

And many women stay in bad relationships because they don’t want to be alone so clearly they think that’s better than being on their own.

So in other words, you think women are to blame for men's shitty behaviour?

@AnotherStupidQuestion

They forget their own kind and because they are viewed as kind, motherly and loving!

Actually, that belief is part of the problem.

A lot of men don't like women who are independent or honest or don't want to be 'motherly' towards adult males!

This is so true. So many men deep down still take a dim view women who are very independent and don’t mother of look after adult men

@Maca07166 I’m not bitter I’m just saying how it is from a fathers point of view and as I suspected the view hasn’t gone down well so be it

I just think it's amazing that you don't think women can see it from your point of view already, and you think you need to enlighten us dumbos, clearly. Do you think we're that blind?? I'm not even a parent and even I can see it. Many women can see it, but they won't necessarily agree with you or think your life is harder or more unfair than theirs.

‘Who reemburses the father for the days they have them? I feed and clothe my kids if I’m taking care of them 2 days a week shouldn’t I get some money for that? ‘

The amount you’re paying for child support is calculated to take into account the days you have your children do the COURTS are renibursinv you by ensuring you don’t pay child support to your ex for seven days per week if you have them for two of those days
IOW you reimburse her for the days she has them and nothing more . If you have some issue where you are paying for her having full time 365 day per year care then you need to have a reassessment of your child support amount and stop complaining
Unbelievable that you do not already understand that concept and somehow think you should be reimbursed for days your not paying her for !!!!!
You sound like a spoilt man child and in truth I’d be more concerned about the mysogyny youre teaching your children than imaginary child support for days you have your children that you think your paying your ex
Either learn about your legal situation and address it if it’s incorrect and stop complaining falsely or grow up and admit you’re plain wrong

Just remember when you chose this new job.

Your ex if she did the same would have to work out of it would fit around the kids. Sort child care. See of she could change the hours to cover any gaps that arise etc

What she won't be abke to do is take a job turn up on the door step and say I cant have the kids on Fridays any more see u Sunday.

If you take this job without even considering how it would work for her and what she would have to do to be able to continue working and getting the kids to school., you will be proving the point exactly that you are yet another non resident parent who does what they like and views any actual chikd care as a help the other parent can do without if it suits you.

@Countingthebeat

‘Who reemburses the father for the days they have them? I feed and clothe my kids if I’m taking care of them 2 days a week shouldn’t I get some money for that? ‘

The amount you’re paying for child support is calculated to take into account the days you have your children do the COURTS are renibursinv you by ensuring you don’t pay child support to your ex for seven days per week if you have them for two of those days
IOW you reimburse her for the days she has them and nothing more . If you have some issue where you are paying for her having full time 365 day per year care then you need to have a reassessment of your child support amount and stop complaining
Unbelievable that you do not already understand that concept and somehow think you should be reimbursed for days your not paying her for !!!!!
You sound like a spoilt man child and in truth I’d be more concerned about the mysogyny youre teaching your children than imaginary child support for days you have your children that you think your paying your ex
Either learn about your legal situation and address it if it’s incorrect and stop complaining falsely or grow up and admit you’re plain wrong

But that is only calculated to how many nights a week they stay over.

If I had them 7 days a week and they never stopped over I’d still have to pay the amount because they don’t stop over.

I appreciate that I’m coming off as an arsehole here but I’m just telling what it’s like from the other side of the parenting fence I appreciate that on a woman centred forum it won’t go down well.

And you coming across as an arsehole has zero to do with this being a ‘woman centred forum’ and a whole lot more to do with the ignorant mysogynistic stuff you say

If I had them 7 days a week and they never stopped over I’d still have to pay the amount because they don’t stop over

Then get the job and place that allows over night. Just make sure you re having the kids cos you actually want them not becie you can knock 50 quid off the bill and prove a point to your ex

Divorce is a totally separate issue. No-one, man or woman, really comes out of divorce well.

I will give my daughter and son exactly the same advice:

Marry someone who is close to you economically

Make sure you are on the same page and discuss how work/care will be split prior to marriage, ideally prior to engagement.

Love does not conquer all, poverty and resentment will destroy it over time.

Beyond that I'd give the usual advice of not rushing in, make sure they are decent etc.

Honestly most men are their own worst enemy. Get involved in childcare, split it a true 50/50 and take active part! Otherwise you are outsourcing the most important thing in your life to another person. As all the comments about nasty men show, you never truly know everything about someone else so why trust the wife to handle everything? Also it's going to build that resentment that crumbles marriages.

For everyone in a marriage, skim where you can. Your own source of income is paramount. The idea of 'lets put every penny in a joint pot' is fucking dumb. Work out your bills, agree a proportionate amount from both people into a joint account and keep a set figure (we use 300 each) for yourselves each month, in your own account. If my wife is keeping 100 of hers back a month, good for her! That's her money, as my 300 is mine and we can both use it as we please.

So in short if you marry a barmaid and you earn 5x her salary, take no care of your offspring and allow her to become a SAHM because it's easier than paying childcare and encouraging her into a career rather than a mcjob, you only have yourself to blame when you are forking over cash and never seeing your kids.

If she resists the above? Don't marry her! Have those convos earlier.

As for the OP? You aren't finding good men because you aren't a good prospect. At 45, most decent men your age are settled and striving to make their marriages work. The leftovers are the ones floating about. Much like you are rightly asking of any prospective man, what are you bringing to the table? Kids?damage from previous relationships? Exdrama? I'd rather be on my own with my hobbies

*How do I treat women? Why women? Why not ask the question how do I treat people in general?

I treat people how I like to be treated, with respect because I was raised to be a decent human being.*

Way to miss the point. Again.

We're talking about women here, not all people. You're dismissing the lived experiences of women in favour of your own because you think you've been treated unfairly. Try opening your mind to the women whose conversation you chose to enter rather than sulking over your own circumstances.

And you have been showing ignorance btw

I’ve seen the term “spunk wallet” used on here many times by women who want a baby and have zero interest in having a long term relationship with that man.

Here is evidence of the "many times" the term "spunk wallet" has been used on here:

www.mumsnet.com/SearchArch?mustmatch=spunk+wallet&dontmatch=&nickname=&src_displ_option=s_m_d_m&fromDate=&toDate=&topicmode=All

If you look at the threads in question, the only times the term has been used is by you and one other time by a poster on one thread telling the OP not to settle down with a man just because he is financially secure.

@Whatwouldscullydo

If I had them 7 days a week and they never stopped over I’d still have to pay the amount because they don’t stop over

Then get the job and place that allows over night. Just make sure you re having the kids cos you actually want them not becie you can knock 50 quid off the bill and prove a point to your ex

If I pick them up every day from school every other week and feed them and return them at 6pm you should be able to tell that I want involvement in my children’s lives and not for the sake of £50

Another thing I’ve seen on here whenever a father wants to see his kids more it’s automatically assumed it’s because he wants the maintenance bill reduced.

@Whatwouldscullydo

If I had them 7 days a week and they never stopped over I’d still have to pay the amount because they don’t stop over

Then get the job and place that allows over night. Just make sure you re having the kids cos you actually want them not becie you can knock 50 quid off the bill and prove a point to your ex

Yes exactly change your lifestyle to enable your children to have more frequent sleepovers. I am yet to find one single parent who hasn’t had to make big adjustments like this .

I dunno you come across as if its all some kind of massive favour and you want a refund.

You have benefited from the situation. You haven't had to give up anything you have stayed in a job that meant you can't even have your kids over night and you want a pat on the back fir being such an involved father.

I have to say, seeing that you are so keen on seeing your dcs more etc... I’m surprised you’ve only just realised that changing your job is the answer.

Because, in my woman’s world, putting my dcs first this is thee FRIST THING I would have done. Afterall no way I would have wanted my dcs to see me less than I could possibly do.

See the issue here?
You are saying you are angry not to be able to see your kids but once separated, you haven’t actually made any effort yet to actually spend EOW with them....

And I’ll repeat my question. When you were living with the mother of your dc, did you ever take on 50% of the parenting? Had you look after your dcs on your own (whilst doing all the chores). Have you ever organised all their after school activities, birthday parties etc... Did you always know when non uniform day was? Did you do some homework with them, the reading and the spelling? Have you taken them to the GP, checked if their shoes were still the right size? Got up to réassurer them when. They had a nightmare or couldnt sleep?

Because if you’ve done all this (and more, parenting is much more than that) Then there is no reason why children would be more hurt to not see their mother than their father. They would only be deeply hurt to have their mother taken away if the mother has been by large the one and primary carer.

You can’t be grumbling about a situation thatt is the consequence of how you behave before. You can’t grumble that you don’t see your dcs enough (and it’s ripping your heart) when you haven’t started to look for a job that would make it possible. You can’t grumble that the mother is seen as the primary carer if you never put the hours and effort when you were living wiith your dcs.

@Whatwouldscullydo

I dunno you come across as if its all some kind of massive favour and you want a refund.

You have benefited from the situation. You haven't had to give up anything you have stayed in a job that meant you can't even have your kids over night and you want a pat on the back fir being such an involved father.

But the child maintenance calculator is so skewed towards how many nights a week you have them over.

It literally does not take into account anything else.

I benefited? Really?

I stayed in a job that pays well and will enable me to save up the 20k at the very minimum I need to be able purchase a property and leave something valuable for my children down the line.

Yes I absolutely benefited 🙄

If I pick them up every day from school every other week and feed them and return them at 6pm you should be able to tell that I want involvement in my children’s lives and not for the sake of £50

So? Once again if you find this so difficult to deal with get a job that allows sleepovers , in others words , adjust just like others have to

Another thing I’ve seen on here whenever a father wants to see his kids more it’s automatically assumed it’s because he wants the maintenance bill reduced.

Big deal . I’ve never seen a woman leave her children in the fathers care full time and not be treated as downright evil person
I’m yet to see a society where women can walk down the street without fear of harassment or rape
I don’t see equality in pay for equal work between men and women
I’m yet to see men reject a porn industry that promotes the degradation of women and girls
I’m
Yet to understand why women are considered to lose value with age whilst men are told ( and tell women ) that they gain it . Using sayings like men age like wine women age like milk
I’m yet to see men as realise their privilege

And you’re here complaining that some people assume men seeing more of their kids want to pay less maintanence . Surely you see the irony in that considering all you’ve done in this whole thread is literally complain about paying maintainence lol

Ohhh besides imply women are money and a sperm hungry creatures who crave anal

Well, this had the potential to be a really interesting discussion but since last night it’s been thoroughly and comprehensively derailed which is a great shame.

Btw picking the dcs up for a couple of hours every other week is NOT a sign of being highly involved

You’re still not dealing with the nights and ensuring that all school is dealt with. You have the easy bit there. Not the drudgery. Which you woud know if you had ever done it.

If you had wanted to be highly involved, you would have looked for another job..

Yes I also must ask Macs considering seeing your kids more is your absolute priority why you didn’t do it the minute you split from your ex . I know I would have !

@Misandrylovescompany

Well, this had the potential to be a really interesting discussion but since last night it’s been thoroughly and comprehensively derailed which is a great shame.

Quite.

eally?

I stayed in a job that pays well and will enable me to save up the 20k at the very minimum I need to be able purchase a property and leave something valuable for my children down the line.

Yes I absolutely benefited 🙄

Well if saving money even with the e cause of leaving it to children in the future is more important to yoh than spending actual time with your children then that says it all
Personally I’d say fuck inheritance . The inheritance is the time I spend with my children

But I always find people do benefit hugely through employment . In more ways than financial , as in ego , self esteem friendships socialisation status etc
So yep you benefitted and put yourself ahead of your kids whilst using some distance excuse of some inheritance

Lol, if you can still save that much money whilst paying said maintenance (only used by your ex for her benefit) then yes you are benefitting.

Because atm you have made no sacrifices to be a truly involved father. But you can still play daddy with your dcs.

Is your ex able to save £20k just like this too?

@Misandrylovescompany quite.
Stop feeding him. It's that simple.
Back to the point. Misogyny and patriarchy are the issues I think. You wouldn't have the gross porn without the gender inequalities. I was brought up in the 60s and 70s and believe me men behaved no better.
Until we're all treated equally, none of the rape, murder, porn issues are going anywhere. And we all have a responsibility to tackle gender inequality. By not perpetuating the blue pink rubbish for a start off

@TonMoulin

Btw picking the dcs up for a couple of hours every other week is NOT a sign of being highly involved

You’re still not dealing with the nights and ensuring that all school is dealt with. You have the easy bit there. Not the drudgery. Which you woud know if you had ever done it.

If you had wanted to be highly involved, you would have looked for another job..

Ah of course I’m not highly involved.

If covid hadn’t have come along who knows where I’d be and what I’d be doing but like millions of others life is on hold and I’m doing the best I can whilst trying to save up for my own place and see my kids as much as possible.

Not I’m not involved at all 😂