What happened to men?

[AnotherStupidQuestion]

There have been a few threads along this line recently. I don't have anything new to add really; I'm just surprised that there are so many crap men about.

I've been single for a decade. In that time, I dated a bit and had a few flings but nothing that constituted a relationship.

Even men who seem decent on the surface are hiding some deeply unattractive qualities just beneath the surface.

It's got to the point where, even on the Tell me about your lovely man threads on here, my cynical voice is asking, "But what do you not know about?"; "What's he keeping from you?; "What are you tolerating that I wouldn't?"

I know the answer is patriarchy and misogyny but I wonder how we, as a species, have become so dysfunctional that so many relationships are poor; so many women are prepared to put up with so much shit and so many men are just appalling? Yet so many seem to also want a relationship.

I don't hate men. I have a son and some very close male friends I have good relationships with. But i have given up completely on ever having a mutually respectful, loving relationship now.

Mens as friends, family, colleagues are great. Men in a relationship? Just no.

I just wondered how other people feel.

Maca07166
Women are not required to have seperate accounts for their living expenses and child support .
Frankly it’s none of your business how your ex spends her money ... the child support often goes to reembursing the mother ( or primary caregiver for the many expense they have already paid out ) who do you think you are to dictate how she organises her finances . Your obligation is to pay what’s owed and be a good Dad . Hers is to make sure their needs are met with the money available from child support and what she puts in and be a good mum ...
you sound like one of those exes who thinks he can still be controlling and make her answerable to you . Do you tell her all of your financial situation ? What do you do to make your exes life better ? Does she have the same free time as you ? I know it’s hard not having your kids full time but it also allows you a lot more down time and relaxation . Also the chance to socialise meet new people ect ( in ordinary not vivid circumstances )
I honestly think you need to check your make privlidge as it’s shining through very loud and clear in this thread

@TonMoulin

Never heard that term....

However. I can easily imagine a woman saying she is much better iff now divorced and the DH paying maintenance than she was when she married. And to somehow gloat about it.
That’s what happens when you take people for granted for many years and they get free.

It doesn’t even mean that said man is paying over the odds. Just that, as seen on many threads in here, some relationships are very imbalanced financially. And some men are buying for themselves first before family etc.... So being able to do what you want with no money wo any further constrains means feeling richer.

FWIW I would also be better off financially divorced than with H. Nothing to do with me taking everything away from him. But plenty to do with the fact he is earning well enough that I would be entitled to a decent maintenance. And still also be entitled to tax credits due my own low income.

Is it gloating or just pure facts?

So once it’s all said and done in today’s society what is a man for once he’s given a woman kids and for whatever reason the relationship breaks down.

He’s a wallet for that standing order every week oh but don’t forget the fantastic parenting that women want for their kids......only on a 2 day a week basis that it has to be crammed into.

And that’s check your male privilege Mac ... you need a lot of education when it comes to gender issues

24/7 video hard porn via the internet happened to boys and men 😡😡😡. Any woman who accepts or even supports this trend is no sister of mine. And NO man is my brother, because they ALL use it and feel no shame in doing so. I have a DF, DB, DP, lots of male colleagues and friends. I basically despise them all. So glad I have no sons!

'Disney parenting' is so problematic. The dads who do this are thinking of themselves and not the children's interests at all. It's just a way to have fun themselves, and be seen as the fun one when they could really sit down with their kids and do homework, cook, spend normal family time, read together, talk, let the children occupy themselves, do 'the boring stuff'....every day life in other words. But no, it's always theme parks, toy shops and days out to avoid the responsible stuff. And even though it's their own doing, men will STILL come on female centred forums and moan at their own 'Disney dad' roles and say how their male 'Disney dad' friends feel fed up with 'only being seen' as having fun with his own kids!

Oh he's shown his colours in the time it took to type that. Well there we have it.

And I don’t take a penny from any man, I never have and I never will. I look after myself and my DDs financially and in every other way. XH is just for entertainment value!

@electronVolt

Wow. Well, we managed 6 posts.

WhATaBOuT teH mENz

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Thank you for that! That was the first giggle of my day. 😁

@Raidblunner @Maca07166 Equally there's a fair share of gender nastiness out there!

Oh no there bloody isn't. Understand that there are many women on here who are upset, bitter or who've had bad luck (maybe), and that unfair generalisations are made. Women can be unpleasant or abusive, yes (duh), but if you think there's any equivalence here between certain types male & female behaviour, then perhaps you should be on Reddit or 4Chan, not Mumsnet.

You need only to check the prison numbers to see that men are more violent generally and sexually. Sexual obsessions or fetishes are also male dominant. Many women on here are victims, or have known victims of these crimes. There are types of behaviour in relationships that men will very rarely experience. Take your shushing elsewhere.

Do you think women don't have standing orders and bills to pay, Mac? Have you tried to get more access to your kids other than 2 days a week? Sometimes this isn't possible due to working commitments on both sides but you'd be surprised (or not) the number of men I know who moan about 'not seeing their kids' but do absolutely nothing about it because really it suits them down to the ground.

@Countingthebeat

Maca07166 Women are not required to have seperate accounts for their living expenses and child support . Frankly it’s none of your business how your ex spends her money ... the child support often goes to reembursing the mother ( or primary caregiver for the many expense they have already paid out ) who do you think you are to dictate how she organises her finances . Your obligation is to pay what’s owed and be a good Dad . Hers is to make sure their needs are met with the money available from child support and what she puts in and be a good mum ... you sound like one of those exes who thinks he can still be controlling and make her answerable to you . Do you tell her all of your financial situation ? What do you do to make your exes life better ? Does she have the same free time as you ? I know it’s hard not having your kids full time but it also allows you a lot more down time and relaxation . Also the chance to socialise meet new people ect ( in ordinary not vivid circumstances ) I honestly think you need to check your make privlidge as it’s shining through very loud and clear in this thread

I’m not dictating anything get off your high horse.

Who reemburses the father for the days they have them? I feed and clothe my kids if I’m taking care of them 2 days a week shouldn’t I get some money for that? What’s the actual difference here to me quite rightly sending over child maintenance (I’ve never disputed I shouldn’t do that I never will) and me being sent over 2 days a week money to feed and clothe the children.

Or are you saying it isn’t my responsibility to feed and clothe my children and because I send over that child maintenance I shouldn’t buy clothes and anything else they need?

And regarding free time I never ever asked for free time I don’t care about free time what I do care about is missing those day to day moments that I’ll never get back.

Now I’m sure someone will come in here and say “why don’t you have the kids full time?”

So I rip my kids from their mother and their home which they have lived in since born and make them come and live with me? Potentially ruining my own relationship with them in the process?

Yes why didn’t me and every other father who wanted their kids full time think of that 🙄

Their your kids, of course you have to pay for them whilst they're in your care 😂 the maintenance you pay during the rest of the time takes this into account.
And why would anyone suggest you take the children from their mother?

@Wishing14

I get very confused with these threads, on others the consensus seems to be gender doesn’t exist (god forbid someone writes about ‘gender disappointment’), then on threads like these men are suddenly the enemy, ‘toxic’, and specifically not as ‘good’ as women. Men and women are suddenly grouped together and sweeping generalisations made over the groups as a whole?

I know.....one would think that women are individuals, with individual opinions!!

What kind of consensus are you looking for then? Do you think there's a Board of Women who approve certain opinions for all womankind? Yes, there is some consensus on certain things, but still a huge variety in opinions.

It really reminds me of the type of confusion men have who are attracted to the PUA community. I think deep down, they either wish or expect women to behave on-masse, to be 100% consistent as if we were a flock if geese meant to fly in formation. They want to know what the Womenfolk think so they try to figure us out, and when there isn't consistency in that, it generates anxiety and confusion for them.

@goldielockdown2

Do you think women don't have standing orders and bills to pay, Mac? Have you tried to get more access to your kids other than 2 days a week? Sometimes this isn't possible due to working commitments on both sides but you'd be surprised (or not) the number of men I know who moan about 'not seeing their kids' but do absolutely nothing about it because really it suits them down to the ground.

I see my kids on a daily basis when I’m on early finishes I work either lates or early so the late week is more difficult.

I appreciate that I’m coming off as an arsehole here but I’m just telling what it’s like from the other side of the parenting fence I appreciate that on a woman centred forum it won’t go down well.

Well that’s the reality for. ANY parent who got divorced. You take decisions based on what’s best for the child

Though, I’d ask myself why you think it woud have destroyed Your child if you were the RP.
Is it because you actually never shared parenting 50/50 (I mean TRULY)? Is it because you believe it’s a woman’s job?.

You sound very bitter

@Countingthebeat

Yes it would be interesting to find any community where the term ‘ spunk wallet’ is used hmmmmm in even the ration 1:100000 to the terms slut whore , etc and the ways in which women are commodified adults bodies who’s sole purpose is to fulfil men’s sexual desires It’s just incredible that some men can’t see the millions of ways in which women are consistently treated as if their sole purpose is their bodies , youth and appearance for men’s pleasure yet the minute they hear one term where men might be used in any way suddenly wow ... how bad they have it

This ^

It would go down very well if you weren't contradicting yourself and treating women like sperm hungry money fetishists.
So you all your time with your kids is isn't crammed into a small time frame, then.
I can't believe you expect recoupment of the money you spend on the kids you created. What are you doing re maintenance? Do you just hand out money willy nilly to your ex with a confused look on your face? If so, do a simple calculation and take into account time spent with the children and adjust the maintenance accordingly.

So basically your job would not allow you to have your dcs full time...

Tried to find another job like so many RP have to?
You can’t have it all...

@TonMoulin

Well that’s the reality for. ANY parent who got divorced. You take decisions based on what’s best for the child

Though, I’d ask myself why you think it woud have destroyed Your child if you were the RP.
Is it because you actually never shared parenting 50/50 (I mean TRULY)? Is it because you believe it’s a woman’s job?.

You sound very bitter

What do you truly mean by 50/50? Are you talking minute to minute 50/50 care?

They love their mother and they love me when I raised the question of should I try to get them living with me full time to family members it was a firm “no don’t take them away from the mother unless it’s for their safety” because they will hate you forever.

All I could think about going through separating was the kids feelings and how I can make it as easy for them as possible.

Taking them away from their home and mother would have made it the worst situation possible for them.

I’m not bitter I’m just saying how it is from a fathers point of view and as I suspected the view hasn’t gone down well so be it.

50/50 isn't full time :/

Porn doesn't help but I tend to think it's just making elements of male sexuality that have always existed more overt.

I think it's much worse than that. I read a study that men who watch porn are far more likely to hold beliefs about strict gender roles and that women should be submissive. Porn is teaching men to hate women and consider them inferior whether they consciously realise this or not and it is everywhere.

@goldielockdown2

It would go down very well if you weren't contradicting yourself and treating women like sperm hungry money fetishists. So you all your time with your kids is isn't crammed into a small time frame, then. I can't believe you expect recoupment of the money you spend on the kids you created. What are you doing re maintenance? Do you just hand out money willy nilly to your ex with a confused look on your face? If so, do a simple calculation and take into account time spent with the children and adjust the maintenance accordingly.

Child maintenance calculator is so strict it doesn’t take into account how much I see them it only takes into account how many nights a week they can stay over.

If I’m on early shifts I pick my kids up from my ex mother in law as she’s a child minder I then pick up the eldest from school and they come back to my parents house
(I’m saving for a deposit for my own place) and I cook them tea and take them home around 6pm.

Twice in 6 weeks they will sleep over on a Saturday and I take them back Sunday evening, that’s when I get a Saturday/Sunday off.

I work 6/7 days and see my kids for a full day on my only day off usually a Sunday.

The calculator doesn’t take into account every other week when I pick them up from school when I feed them and take them to Tesco for new clothes.

According to the calculator doing all that still requires me to pay £411 a month because they don’t sleep over once a week.

Its nothing to do with being woman centred forum.

You have continued to work in a job which either doesn't allow u to take the kids full time. You can work when you want and avoid the hassle of arranging child care then you complain about how much money your ex has.

You could if you are so concerned about her parenting her spending habits and her character do what many of the women have to do and change jobs or go part time , arrange child care and fit in the stuff like homework , football club etc in the time that remains.

You cannot sit back and enjoy the benefits of having a life that means the responsibilities aren't yours and then moan that you have to provide "child care and money"

@Maca07166 Oh dear. You really, really don't need to do that. Women have the imagination and empathy to know what the other side of the fence is like. Whenever women gather to talk about something online, even their own experience, there are always men who wade in with their opinions, to remind us of what it's like for them. We see it a lot. Women start talking about something, and a few men will join in and go 'BUT WHAT ABOUT MEN'. WHAT ABOUT MEEEEEEEEE !!!!!

Congratulations on joining those men.

Also, this exactly why women campaign to retain women only spaces. It's a safety & dignity issue mainly, but men have a habit of centring themselves in women's spaces and conversations. It's 1-2-3 back to me.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Its nothing to do with being woman centred forum.

You have continued to work in a job which either doesn't allow u to take the kids full time. You can work when you want and avoid the hassle of arranging child care then you complain about how much money your ex has.

You could if you are so concerned about her parenting her spending habits and her character do what many of the women have to do and change jobs or go part time , arrange child care and fit in the stuff like homework , football club etc in the time that remains.

You cannot sit back and enjoy the benefits of having a life that means the responsibilities aren't yours and then moan that you have to provide "child care and money"

I’m not concerned about her spending habits at all or how she cares for our children that wasn’t my point.

You have raised a valid point though about my job and just in January I was starting to think about looking for something else which would help me have the kids round every weekend then corona hit.

If we ever get back to any form of normality a change of job is what I most likely need to do.