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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Constantly being told what to do

402 replies

Pickle48 · 08/01/2021 09:32

I've NC'ed for this, not sure why as its so outing but hey ho. There are other issues in my marriage but this is something that's bugging me. Because I cant seem to find a way to solve it.

Over the past number of years I feel more and more like a schoolkid in our relationship and I don't know what to do or how to fix it.

This is a bit random but an example. Had a delivery and it came with one of those gel ice packs in them. I thought it seemed silly to throw it away, especially as I do a lot of sport and they are useful for injuries. So I put it in the freezer. DW asks what it was doing in there, so I explained. Next day I find it in the bin. I asked why she did it and she said we didn't need it. I said I had explained why I wanted it and put it back. A week later I heard my wife complain again that "it made finding things in the freezer hard" and it ended up in the bin again.

And again. My parents sent me some presents and they had bought a box to put them all in. Im not talking some random cardboard box, its purpose built and decorated. Before I had even said anything my DW said "don't think you are keeping that". Then again this morning I was asked "why is that not in the recycling yet"

And before you ask. We live in a big house, its not cramped. I am not a hoarder, but I hate throwing stuff away when they could be reused. But its not just this - I get told what to do in other areas of life as well. For years I have just backed down. If I try not to back down it just ends in an argument. What do I do.... (aside from leave)

OP posts:
gutful · 15/04/2021 03:41

What I mean is you sound scared about how something looks, rather than being scared of going back to a situation which made you feel bad.

So you're all about the image & keeping up appearances - you've created your own misery because you care more about what other people think of you than how you actually feel.

I actually think you should go back to her because you are the kind of person who should not be dating anyone else.

Sarahlou63 · 15/04/2021 09:58

Have you ever spoken to your parents/siblings/friends about your relationship?

Pickle48 · 03/05/2021 08:25

@sarahlou63 yes I have.

So as a but of an update. Last weekend we discussed that over the bank holiday it would be a good time to tackle a few of the jobs that needed doing on the house. I was conscious that my wife wouldnt want to spend all 3 days doing this so we agreed that we could spend one day away somewhere or doing something. Then on Thursday she called me to say that her best friend who has had chronic illness was feeling sad, so she was going to spend the weekend with her instead. My heart sank but I agreed I would come over anyway and do the jobs.

I arrived and we had a brief chat before she left. She mentioned that she didnt want to go and spend the weekend with this friend ..but she was depressed and felt she needed to. When the door shut and she left I broke down. I felt so alone and abandoned I guess. The fact that she knows I have depression, that I'm lonely but her friend seems more important. I thought the feelings might pass but a few hours later I just couldn't see a way to go on. I called my sister and basically my Dad drove up to be with me. He said he would stay with me for a couple of days and help me get me back on my feet. He helped me do some of the jobs.

My wife texted to say she was coming back back from her friends early... she didnt know my Dad had been supporting me so Dad left in a hurry. I the chaos I had run in the house with a dirty shoe on and left a small footprint on the rug. She arrived back one of the first things she was I was why was there a footprint on the rug. I said I would clean up once i had finished all the work. I broke down and I told her I had felt abandoned and a low priority in her life.

She said that she knew I would make an issue of her seeing her friends, and that's it's not ok that I dont allow her to see friends. I said thats not true..she had been out twice in the week as well and I've never said dont go. Ive never once told her she ca
or cant do anything. I told her that I feel criticised when she only ever sees the bad (the footprint) and not all the hard effort I put in. She said that she now feels she cant say anything 'instructive' to me because I take it to be criticism. And she said that she feels I do it on purpose.. she said I knew she had hoovered the day before and so by leaving a footprint I'm belittling her work. A few hours after she had returned we had tea and watched TV. She was being reassuring and saying it will all be ok.

I know my wife is right and that I'm needy..so I'm in the wrong. But part of me feels that if say she had been diagnosed with PND I would say "what can I do to help"... if that meant 100% commitment to her and being there for her and not seeing my friends, then that's what I would do.

I know I need out but I honestly, at the moment, I can't see a future for myself. All I see is grief and loss, and why would anyone want to be with me. As @gutful says..no woman would want to be with me so if Ieave i will die alone. If I leave I lose everything that I have so worked so damned hard for.

OP posts:
CherryDocsInYrBalls · 03/05/2021 08:52

That is called catastrophising. Also if you leave, you will heal, meet someone else and have a family. Your wife doesn't want to have sex with you or have children with you and you're not even 40!! Fuck that shit. You aren't a good match, you don't need to tie yourself into knots about it anymore. Untangle everything and move on. It will probably help if you go low contact because the constant messaging is sucking you back in. Good luck. You both deserve to be happy

Sarahlou63 · 03/05/2021 08:56

@Pickle48 - go and see, or talk to, your GP. You need professional help as a matter of urgency.

Why did your Dad leave 'in a hurry'? Is she toxic to your family as well?

thinkIamdone · 03/05/2021 08:59

You are in an ideal position to divorce. Just ensure there is no possibility of pregnancy in the meanwhile because children complicate all situations.

You married your mother and are living the life of your father. Get out of it. You're clearly miserable. You need to learn what it's like to be in an equal relationship. Your councillor told you what the issue is.

Pickle48 · 03/05/2021 09:19

@sarahlou63

My wife doesn't like my Dad helping. A few years ago he had an accident and spilt something. Yes it was a mess and my Dad isnt the most perfectionist person but in my view, help is help and even if I have to do a bit of tidying afterwards, all in it's worth it.

I've asked if he can help since but she said no so I didnt tell her he had come up

OP posts:
Cavagirl · 03/05/2021 12:39

Are you still living in rented Pickle?

If so, first of all well done for keeping at the separation. It's understandable you're finding this so hard.

Have you found a new counsellor yet? What do your friends and family think?

sammysnake · 03/05/2021 19:35

@Pickle48 Hi Pickle - firstly I wanted to say that I think you have been very courageous by initiating and continuing with the separation. Your wife does not sound like a kind or understanding person, as evidenced by the fact she keeps reverting to type. I'm sure she has some points which are valid but the way she deals with them is wrong and ultimately, you aren't working together any more.

I can't imagine what an isolating step it has been moving out, but you have not been happy for a long time so it's like breaking through that point when you exercise and you don't think you can carry on, but you push through it and you do.

Your therapist sounds appalling and it sounds like you're tying yourself up in knots tying to figure all these different things out. Have you spoken to the GP about antidepressants? These can be a Godsend in the right situation and may pick you up so you feel more like yourself again.

Sex should not just tail off as par for the course in a marriage. That would only work if both of you weren't interested any more. I wouldn't waste time thinking of her comments on that because it's just another symptom of a messed up situation and not reflective of you as a person.

Peanutbutterandbananatoastie · 04/05/2021 07:42

Just read the whole thread op, you write about your feelings really well. It’s made me think about how I sometimes talk to my partner too, when things are bad between us I struggle to see the good things he does and find fault too often. I hope I don’t turn every issue he brings up around and try and and blame him for it, as your ex does with you. We support each other with our problems though, your wife doesn’t seem to support you, and if sex had stopped before kids it definitely would’ve been the final straw.

I just wanted to say, please don’t move back in. I imagine it’s very lonely right now, but if you go back you run a very big risk of falling back into a relationship that is very bad for you. Good luck. 🍀

Pickle48 · 06/05/2021 16:41

Sorry for the slow response. Yes I am still in the rental but it's running out soon. I've got an appointment with the GP, going to discuss ADs and I am seeing if I can continue with a new therapist on private. I wasn't in a good place, fortunately my family saw that and I've taken some time out to be with them for a while.

I think I learnt a lot about myself at the weekend, and maybe the situation. I think her saying that she was going to spend time with a friend who was depressed and lonely when we'd initially agreed we would be together was a trigger. And then her saying that she didn't even want to go to her friends and it was a pain made it worse.

For a very long time in our relationship she supported a parent who was very ill (terminal illness). This was over a period of 6 years. She was away a lot of the time- most weekends...looking back I think this hurt me, but I was too scared to say anything. I would never dream of saying that she can't spend time with her parents. She says that she never regrets it, and if she could do it again she would have spent more time with them.

And that dynamic plays out today. I feel alone in the marriage, but I don't tell her because I don't want to control what she does, and I'm scared of her response which is often critical.

And even this weekend she said that are now 4 separate occasions over the past 2 years where I have stopped her doing what she wanted to do. In my eyes I was just trying to be more emotionally honest with her

And that's where this cycle comes in. Because I explained to her that I felt unloved because she was supporting a friend who was depressed over me who was also depressed. She then says that I am making her out to be a horrible person, and that how can I deny her the ability to support a friend. She said that she actually came back a few hours early from her friends, which is evidence of her supporting me. She says that the issue isn't that she doesn't love me but that I don't receive her love. I did try and explain that it felt like I she had robbed of £100 and then then returned £10 and then questions "why you aren't grateful of me charitable £10 donation.?"

What do people think IRL. My female family members think its a controlling relationship. My DF thinks less so, although he admitted that he had spoken with my DW and she has admitted to him she had anger and control issues.

My DW was upset and when I asked her why she said it was because she realised that nothing she could do would make me better and she just hopes that professional help can sort it. She says that I shouldn't be feeling lonely or depressed when she decides to go and stay at friends at the weekend..... which makes me feel that I shouldnt feel this way. And I told her that, I said I wish I didnt feel the way I did but I do and I just wish I could stop feeling that way.

Sorry for the long rant... just needed to get down on paper some stuff

OP posts:
rosamacrose · 06/05/2021 17:32

You sound like a compassionate person and I really think you need to have some compassion for yourself.

I have found AD very helpful in my life, at certain times.

I understand living in a controlling relationship where you are in the wrong at all times. 'Weighed, judged and found to be wanting' echoed in my head for years and years. The nitpicking, the sniping, the gas lighting and the sheer unfairness is sure to wear you down but...

Please keep stepping forward.
Please don't step back.
You've done so much and seem so practical and capable. Find yourself a new rental.
You can do it and it sounds like you have emotional support from your family in RL. So many don't.

Keep going Pickle48

Just keep going forward.

chilliplant634 · 01/08/2021 00:27

Pickle48 how are things going for you? Are you feeling better?

QueenBee52 · 01/08/2021 02:40

@Pickle48

are you okay ?

Ihavehadenoughalready · 01/08/2021 05:21

Jesus F Christ I hope this guy got away and is getting therapy, is on anti-D's and has developed some self-confidence.

And I woulda said if you don't like my cooking go make yourself a sandwich. And if you don't have anything nice to say to me, then we are done.

And you sound fine and competent at work. Not everybody wants to become CEO of the company.

If you do plan on meeting someone else and having children, your anxiety will need to continually be monitored because I can tell you that having children has exacerbated my GAD.

Pickle48 · 03/08/2021 18:51

@chilliplant634 @QueenBee52

Hey all - thanks for checking in on me. I guess there has been "no change". I'm living in the spare bedroom of the marital home.

I find it hard to write this. I guess I feel trapped. Why - because I admit that I can't deal with the loneliness. Walking out would make that even harder - possibly unbearable. So I choose to stay and at least have something. Someone at work who was in senior management took his own life and it really hit home. I didn't know him that well and I don't know what his personal life was like. Even if my marriage is like two housemates, I guess its better than nothing.

We had an argument on Saturday... I'm active in my local community and was doing something the other night which was quite a lot of work and I asked for help and she just ignored me. I asked why later and she said that she didn't believe in my beliefs (they're not that crazy - im just trying to encourage some changes to the local area which I think will be positive for the community). I felt that she could have helped me even if she fundamentally didnt believe in what I was doing (she actually later contradicted herself and said she enjoys the fact that I am someone who will fight for something). In my eyes, if you love something you would go out of your way to help them.

I've always struggled with understanding whether what I ask for is too much and that its all my fault. I guess the flip side is a few nights later she wanted to do something. It was outside, it was late at night and cold and I didnt want to be there. But I knew she did, and I do these things for her.

I've been feeling a bit down recently and writing this hurts me. She came to see me so I quickly closed this website down and cleared away the tears. She said hello and gave me a hug and it made me feel a bit less alone. And that's the battle... because at the moment all my head thinks is that staying put is marginally better than leaving. And thats why I feel trapped.

We both WFH, we are both from home. I know deep down I should be speaking to someone but I can't. I dont want DW to know... she caught me reading mumsnet a few weeks back and she just kept on saying "what are you reading, what are you reading".. I told her it was private and to leave but she didn't. In the end I was convinced she would find the thread.

At the moment, i just focus on the today I guess

OP posts:
Ihavehadenoughalready · 03/08/2021 19:38

So did you give up on the rental?

Have you made appointments for yourself for therapy and/or AD?

Even if my marriage is like two housemates, I guess its better than nothing.

If this is how you feel, by all means stay, but that seems like a way to not have to change anything and remain miserable.

chilliplant634 · 04/08/2021 09:12

Pickle48. I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. It sounds like she has ground you down and isolated you so much that even you know that her behaviour towards you is so wrong. However you're still emotionally dependant on her. Her behaviour is classic coercive control. Even if you can't bring yourself to leave her at the moment, you need to widen your support network so you can get there eventually. You're feeling so depressed and miserable. Spend time with your family. Your parents your siblings your friends. Of course she will probably kick up a fuss over this as well. Any attempt from you to assert any independence will be perceived as a threat by her.

Can't you just pack your bags and go to your parents? Or a friend's place? They will be able to support you if you can't face being alone.

Crikeyalmighty · 04/08/2021 09:34

Are you the guy from motherland OP ?? If you haven’t watched it I suggest you do. Go and get a nice houseshare with guys around your age and lessen contact with your wife and join some new ‘intetest’ Groups, go to meet ups, hell even try some on line dating. . This is no life for you— you sound like you would make a lovely partner and dad for someone ‘softer’ and whilst you are tied to her apron strings that ain’t going to happen.

Crikeyalmighty · 04/08/2021 09:35

I’m not sure what your wife is getting out of this either apart from someone to boss about.

Dervel · 04/08/2021 12:20

I must admit I haven’t read the entire thread but I have read the OP’s responses and it sounds like you have had some really solid advice. Apologies if I am echoing something someone else has posted.

It sounds like you have a real self-love problem, probably your wife too for that matter! However she isn’t here so I can’t address her.

You seem thoughtful, willing to work on things and I don’t read much that would make me dislike you (just take that as an outsider’s perspective for what that’s worth).

I think once you sort your self-esteem out you’ll be off to the races. You are clearly capable of commitment and willing to put in the work to make personal relationships work.

What I really think you need to do is some affirmations and realise your own value. Then maybe take a leadership position in your own life.

I have to say it sounds like things have gotten really toxic with the mrs, but I’m rarely bothered about getting into the he said she said bullshit. You are both clearly deeply unhappy.

One of the things about depression is it is often repressed anger, so I’d advise doing a deep dive in what it really is you may have to be angry about. There is often an urge to bury anger as a man for fear of toxic masculinity, however this is counter productive. It actually sounds like you wife is almost unconsciously pushing you to get angry in the hopes you can integrate the shadow aspects of your nature instead of running from them.

Two things about conflict, taking it as a given nobody REALLY likes conflict, I mean honestly there is something wrong with you if you actively seek it out. However any conflict avoided is a conflict magnified in the future, it’s best to get into the habit of resolving it immediately as soon as it comes up. It’s actually easier to do that than sitting on it to defer to the future.

The other element in these conflicts with your wife is you are actually enabling her into becoming the worst version of herself by giving into her all the time. Set a boundary and stick to it. A boundary is not just and act of self love it’s also loving the person you are setting the boundary for.

Take the freezer example, I think the way I’d have handled that is after the discussion I’d say ok I hear you, you don’t want it to be tough to find things in the freezer. Let’s have a drawer each in the freezer, and the rest is communal space. That should obviate the problem. It wouldn’t be a negotiation either I’d TELL her that was how it was going to be. If she still wanted to push it to conflict I’d be like “ok fine then give me another solution, where we both have our preferences met and respected, I’m all ears here. If you can’t work with me on something so fundamentally trivial, as freezer space there is no way in hell we’ll parent effectively together, and honestly fatherhood is a big dream of mine and if we’re really that far gone I’m out.

This isn’t a case of manipulating her it’s a simple of case of where you want to be in life and I’d start making solid strides in moving in that direction, she is welcome to come with you if your goals and values align, if not it’s best to end it now amicably.

However it does seem to me there are some fundamental incompatibilities between you. Sex being the big one. There isn’t in truth any right answer here. Sex is a big part of intimacy for you and it isn’t for her, neither of you are right or wrong here but it IS a pretty big incompatibility. Personally I’m like you, but I’d also be horrified to end up with someone who just lay back and thought of England simply to appease me. Sex is something pretty special to me and it’s a side of life I want to explore with someone I love, not just to reduce it to a biological function (not that I am saying you do). Anyway best of luck, and much love.

Polkadots2021 · 04/08/2021 12:51

@Pickle48

I think it is a power struggle yes :(

So with the ice bag, the thing is the freezer wasn't anywhere near full but she just said "when its in there, its hard to find other stuff".
I know that if I then reply to that, it will just turn into an argument so I back down.

I've told her I'm unhappy and that things need to change. She had admitted she can be controlling, but 15 months on and nothing has changed. I think things are getting magnified in lockdown. (I do all the cooking and I just told her what I am doing for dinner and she just said "again...." It was about 2 months when I last cooked this dish and its really hard thinking of dishes when you do lunch and dinner 7 days a week.

OP I think you need to play hardball and say you can't stay in a controlling marriage as it's making you deeply unhappy, and while she's agreed she's controlling, she hasn't really done much to change it. That'll make her see how serious and unhappy you are. It'll be a shock to her, but if she wants to genuinely make the marriage work, she'll make a much larger effort.

Unfortunately without showing her you're serious,I doubt anything will ever change.

Cavagirl · 04/08/2021 14:34

Sorry Polka I disagree to an extent. OP has already moved out for a significant period. She didn't change then, despite that being a clear indication of how serious it is.

She will never change.

OP needs to somehow believe his choices aren't "stay and be miserable" or "leave and be slightly more miserable". There is a whole, big wide world out there and OP could choose a happy, fulfilled life for himself. But it's so difficult to see that when you're stuck in an abusive relationship and believe you are worth so little because you are told that (implicitly or explicitly) every day.

It's utterly tragic OP that you believe those are your choices.

Even if you believe it's not accessible to you, do you like the idea that you could have a happier life, on your own or with someone new? Or is that too difficult to even imagine?

Rheia1983 · 04/08/2021 15:15

OP, reading through what you wrote, it comes across as masochistic.

You're in pain, but because your fear being alone, you choose further pain. Instead of taking responsibility for yourself as an adult human being, you're outsourcing your reponsibility to be kind to yourself to your wife and feeling distraught and disappointed when she does not comply. You come across as addicted to pain.

You keep asking why your wife acts the way she does. Instead of focusing on her, have you asked yourself why you are not being your friend and advocating for yourself and your needs? Are you being kind to yourself when you accept unkind behaviour from your wife? Would you allow the 7-year old boy you were to be treated the way you are now being treated by your wife? If yes, have you asked why you are acting complicit in such abuse?

If you refuse to be complicit and leave, then yes, you may be alone for some time or maybe for a long time. Perhaps you may even die alone. But that is a risk all of us ultimately face. However, by staying where you are, you guarantee that you remain alone, unfulfilled and miserable.

Do you not want something more than that? If so,
why not try advocating for yourself and that little boy you were by taking the steps you can take to ensure your wellbeing and your health?

Dervel · 04/08/2021 17:36

Honestly the world is stacked to the brim with some wonderful single women, drop the lack mentality and go out and find one!