Constantly being told what to do

[Pickle48]

I've NC'ed for this, not sure why as its so outing but hey ho. There are other issues in my marriage but this is something that's bugging me. Because I cant seem to find a way to solve it.

Over the past number of years I feel more and more like a schoolkid in our relationship and I don't know what to do or how to fix it.

This is a bit random but an example. Had a delivery and it came with one of those gel ice packs in them. I thought it seemed silly to throw it away, especially as I do a lot of sport and they are useful for injuries. So I put it in the freezer. DW asks what it was doing in there, so I explained. Next day I find it in the bin. I asked why she did it and she said we didn't need it. I said I had explained why I wanted it and put it back. A week later I heard my wife complain again that "it made finding things in the freezer hard" and it ended up in the bin again.

And again. My parents sent me some presents and they had bought a box to put them all in. Im not talking some random cardboard box, its purpose built and decorated. Before I had even said anything my DW said "don't think you are keeping that". Then again this morning I was asked "why is that not in the recycling yet"

And before you ask. We live in a big house, its not cramped. I am not a hoarder, but I hate throwing stuff away when they could be reused. But its not just this - I get told what to do in other areas of life as well. For years I have just backed down. If I try not to back down it just ends in an argument. What do I do.... (aside from leave)

I second the congratulations on getting a place. That was pro-active.
The first place fell through and you were resilient and kept going.
When you take that final leap and move out, that will increase your self esteem. You feel feel more in control of your life. Scared at the SAME TIME perhaps, but self-efficacy is a really impirtant part of self esteem. Knowing that you have the power to run your own life.

You can be scared and apprehensive about what comes next, and still know that you took a step that was brave for you.

How are you doing @Pickle48

Have you moved out yet?

@sarahlou63

Yes I've moved out and been out a week. I'm really struggling with being lonely. I texted my sister the other day just to say I wasnt coping. I said "I felt lonely in my marriage, and now I feel lonely on my own". I went back to the family home yesterday and it doesnt feel like my house anymore. It made me so sad

I get it. It's tough moving on when it wasn't what you wanted or how you saw your life panning out. What are the positives?

Well done Pickle
You've done so well, moving out during lockdown especially.
Don't forget you can form a support bubble so you don't have to be isolated, and hopefully we'll soon be able to meet up with friends and family socially again.
What plans are you making for when lockdown is over?

Well done. Hope you have random cardboard boxes stacked up to the roof, and gel ice packs on string at the windows like bunting!
Ok, maybe not that :) but I hope you are at least doing some of the things that you personally like to do, when you want to do them. Eating the food you fancy etc?

Pickle I think you have done so well. I think your wife has been playing you big time, it’s an abusive relationship and you have taken far too much.
Imagine a life of independence, confidence and maybe meeting a loving partner in the future. You have to take charge of your own happiness now, it’s no one else’s business. All the best for the future.

Well done OP.

This is a time of adjustment, but for the better.

Do nice things for yourself.

When is the house being put up for sale?

How did your wife behave as you left?

I’ve read your posts and here is my take as an outsider:
Your DW is aggressive and selfish and treats you terribly. Part of the reason is that she is quicker than you and your slower pace drives her crazy. Despite her intelligence she has low self esteem and finds it hard to relate to people. She does not love you but is scared of being on her own.
You are a decent person and you are also intelligent - but in a different way to your DW. You are less practical, slower of thought, more reflective. You sometimes annoy people because you live in a dream world at times and you slow up proceedings. You work hard but can be ineffective because you don’t know which tasks to prioritise. You have often been treated with impatience, even contempt, by your family, work colleagues etc and over the years you have grown so used to it you expect nothing different. I have met people like you at work and they are kind and lovely but at times can make me grit my teeth (and then feel bad for doing so). You wanted a strong partner because you yourself tend to drift and dream and are not very mentally proactive. However now that you want children things have come to a head with your DW. She has come to despise you and you have found a seed of anger within you that says - is this how I want my family life to be?
I think separation is a good thing for now. While not compromising your essential decency, is there any way you could work on being more assertive and mentally proactive and engaged - not just with your DW but in general?
I wish you luck!

Yes I've moved out and been out a week. I'm really struggling with being lonely. I texted my sister the other day just to say I wasnt coping. I said "I felt lonely in my marriage, and now I feel lonely on my own"

It might feel weird/lonely at first, but you'll get used to it with time and love it. Please stick with it.

Ignore this if not relevant and, TBH, from your other posts I think it might NOT be relevant, but "boarding school syndrome" is worth googling.
Honestly it was just the thing you said about age 7 and parents.
+1000000 about the storage. I mean it's one less thing to worry about so why would you not.
It is really scary. But you will both be OK. Think of all the divorced people you know. They all ended up ok I'm guessing. And in a good way you don't sound particularly different from most people. So you will be ok too.

'I'm not passive aggressive...I'm aggressive' ooh that gave me chills. That's one of those rare moments when her sort tell you exactly who they are and that they KNOW what they are doing.

Just remember, better to be alone for a while than anywhere near a malignant narcissist like her. Or whatever variation of disordered bully she is.

I split up with someone a week back. You always notice being lonely more when the situation is new. Once you've had some time to yourself and lockdown lifts it will be a lot easier. Maybe you could get a wee pet for company in the mean time?

Please don't assume she can change (she can pretend to change I'm sure but it's just a lie). Her goal is to ensure you in her web. Or take from you is some other way once she realises you arent going back. She is your enemy, never forget it. If you dont see it that way, she will bend u over a barrel.

Well done on how far you've come!
It will get easier!

*ensnare

@Pickle48
Great job getting your own place.
Get the divorce ball rolling and decide what to do about the martial home, ( is your house in joint name)

@Coronawireless - are you the therapist or have you just read the OP's tarot cards?!?

[quote Sarahlou63]@Coronawireless - are you the therapist or have you just read the OP's tarot cards?!?[/quote]
I read his posts and that’s how he comes across. Like I said in the post.
Not necessarily accurate but may be food for thought.

[quote Sarahlou63]@Coronawireless - are you the therapist or have you just read the OP's tarot cards?!?[/quote]
I thought it sounded like a horoscope :)

Just re-read it. It does actually.

I'm sorry but your wife is controlling, rude and manipulative and I can't believe everyone is making excuses for her behaviour. If the roles were reversed everyone would be screaming abuse and chastising previous posters for victim blaming.

This dynamic is unlikely to change. By all means try, but please remember it is likely if you stop backing down and start challenging her, issues will most likely escalate and one or both of you will end the relationship. If you start behaving in a way that maintains your own self respect and prevents her from asserting her unreasonable control over you, I can bet you her behaviour will escalate and become really crazy and unreasonable. You will see her true colours at that point without the facade of "oh but I do like you" that you have going on now because you are acquiescing to all her expectations and demands.

The only other alternative outcome is, she will initially back down for a bit, but slowly and surely her behaviour will pick up again and she will find new ways of manipulating you. Don't please don't even think of having kids right now. She will use them against you.

I'm not suggesting you act like a dick but if she says oh I don't like your x dish then I would turn around and say well the kitchen is all yours feel free to cook.

"You won't be a good dad, you need to improve first" That is classic controlling coercive behaviour. She is being continually insulting to grind your confidence down so she can reinforce her control over you. It is already working, you are suffering from depression. My ex used to make comments like that all the time. You start second guessing yourself "what's wrong with me, how can I improve" and she gets to keep you on your toes and you are left jumping through hoops to please her.

My parents dynamic was the same as yours. It resulted in us normalising controlling and manipulative behaviour towards us. So when I got married to my ex, I was unable to see the red flags (I didn't recognise them- it was normal for me) and I persisted in behaviours and responses to his words and actions which only reinforced and increased his control over me. That is until things got really crazy and ridiculous and the penny finally dropped for me. Like you I didn't have kids. I consider myself lucky I escaped then.

My older brother is similar to you. He has also married a controlling manipulative bitch, and has allowed her complete and unreasonable control over his life. Do you know he isn't allowed to talk to any of his siblings or family without the phone being on speakerphone? Apparently this is for transparency and openness in their relationship. Once he even called me from the bathroom, as she had set up "baby monitor" cameras all over the flat and would routinely log in to them when she was out to check on him or eavesdrop on his conversations. Unfortunately things have got worse, she has succeeded in isolating and alienating him from the rest of us. I used to see him once a year before covid, now not even that. Honestly? He has aged 10 years since marrying her.

This is your future with her. An unloved, disrespected dogsbody.

You can't control her. You can however change your response to her and assert yourself.

Best of luck xx

Sorry, I think I missed loads of posts on here! Well done for moving out. It hurts, I know, but it is better for you in the long term.

If you're lonely you can chat with posters on mn. Here or on other threads, there are loads if you look around. Plus all the other forums out there. It will take time to adjust.

CHILLIPLANT
That is one of the saddest stories I’ve ever heard. Please try to reach out to your brother again. I know you have but don’t give up!
What a nasty vicious woman!
OP I hope you are OK, please keep us updated and don’t give up on yourself, you can do this.

Hello everyone - had a busy week and didn't get chance to reply. So @Coronawireless let me try and answer what you said. As you can imagine some of it is correct, some of it isn't.

I agree I think my DW has low self esteem, which for her is expressed differently to me. I can be undecisive at times - Usually at a restaurant I can never decide what they want from the menu... I don't want to make the wrong decision and then regret that I didn't get what the person sat opposite ordered. I grew up in a poor family, my parents argued about money. I value money, and I am no frivolous. I've made my own wealth now and have changed into more of a liberal person financially.

I am the only one from my family to go to uni, but we couldn't really afford it. I worked every hour possible to earn money to get through it. I've had a decent career so far.. been told I'm not good enough every time but that drives me... but deep down I suffer from insecurity. I don't think I'm attractive, I don't want to show my weaknesses to my wife as she is critical and unsupportive. I've bottled them up all my life and just tried to soldier on.

One point you got wrong - I'm the opposite, I am a very practical person. I remember when my older sister rang me up to say she was leaving her husband. I drove up, spent a week with her. I sorted her housing, her UC, I gave her money to get through it..... but I recall I never asked much about how she was emotionally. Over the past 18 months, with therapy, I have tried to become more in tune with my emotions and other peoples.

One point you got right was about the prioritising. That's very true, I work very hard but sometimes I do the wrong things at the wrong time. Again, I am aware this is a weakness and I work on it. And I agree - I get used. I have been used by my family, I have been used at work. In trying to further my career I will always try and take on tasks, learn etc... but there is a downside to that. As much as 2 years ago, I was bullied at work. I tried to resolve an issue and a guy took me into a room and threatened me. I told my boss who did nothing about it... I dropped it as I didn't want to be seen as the one who stirs.

I agree, I don't think my DW loves me (although I personally believe that love isn't a binary function, it can take many forms and exists in a continuum). I think she is happy by herself, but relies on me and she cant imagine life without me. I do all the house maintenance, I do all the paperwork. I sort out the finances. I was doing a most of the cooking, shopping etc. I have been very independent since I was very young.. I can survive on my own practically, but I struggle with emptiness and loneliness.

Now I said I was from a poor family, and for various reasons that I wont go into because they are outing, I was sent away from my family aged 7. I did see my parents, but only for short periods and for some of the time family friends looked after me. I have come to realise over the past year that this event probably damaged me to some extent that I never really understood. Aged 8 I tried to escape it all but it failed. I cant stand being alone, I cant stand silence.

I went back to the house this weekend. It was ok I guess, but it made me realise that things never change. We are having some work done but I've been doing a lot of the work myself. One of the rooms is a building site and there was a bag of rubbish in there full or rubble and building waster. I ate an apple, and I put the core in the bag of building rubbish. 20 minutes later my DW asks "what did you do with the apple core, because I hope you didn't put it in the construction rubbish upstairs".... I have two options.. just say "no I didn't", or say "yes I did". If I said yes, she would have made me go and fish it out of the rubble back and put it in the food waste. I could argue and "be more assertive", but I wouldn't win. It makes me feel like a schoolboy all over again.. I feel almost shamed. Maybe you will tell me I'm being unreasonable

There is another thread of a woman who says her husband constantly tells her what to do in a similar fashion. I can relate to it... if I leave a cup out I will get told off, she doesn't like the way I roll the toothpaste etc. Its broken me.

Hey OP, nice to see you back again.
Has your wife accepted/realised that you're separating? How are you finding living alone, it's been a few weeks now?
You say being told what to do all the time has broken you, which is desperately sad. This is your chance now to rebuild yourself, away from your wife's toxicity. She hasn't broken you permanently.
Have you considered getting builders in to finish the house renovation so you can sell up more quickly?

Also my DW asks "what did you do with the apple core, because I hope you didn't put it in the construction rubbish upstairs".... I have two options.. just say "no I didn't", or say "yes I did" actually there's a third option - "why the fuck do you care what I've done with my apple core??"