Divorcing sulking DH - it WILL happen in 2021!

[jamaisjedors]

Another year, another thread !

Can't believe this is thread number SIX ! and that I am still getting amazing support from all the wonderful mumsnetters out there !

RECAP :
First thread from December 2019 after my H ruined my birthday weekend (and 1st anniversay of my dad's death) by giving me the silent treatment all weekend to "punish me" for not being grateful enough for him coming away and buying me a present and a card.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?msgid=84022238

Thanks to some amazing posters I realised that H's behaviour (which was not at all a one-off) was emotionally abusive and unacceptable.

I prepared to leave him and got plans in place but got "hoovered" back in by H with promises of joint counselling, individual counselling for him, and regular "date nights". Unfortunately none of that changed the dynamic in our relationship : 2nd thread :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3498886-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking-part2?msgid=85957683

I started a 3rd thread in May when H and I had decided to separate :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3580872-LEAVING-sulking-H?msgid=88239005

and that's when things got nightmarish.

As everyone on here pointed out, the most dangerous time for women is when they decide to leave an abusive partner.

In a nutshell, H went missing, had an acute psychotic episode, was admitted to a psychiatric facility and stayed there for over 2 months.

Staff at the hospital warned me H could be dangerous for me and advised me to move out of the family home asap which I did, in fear for my life.

Fourth thread :
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a3637219-DIVORCING-sulking-H?msgid=92845754#92845754

saw me going to court to safeguard the DC through a request for full custody with limited visiting rights for exH.

With the help of my great lawyer we got the decision we wanted from the judge but the battle never ends over every little thing - schools, activities, money...

Fifth thread :
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3786349-Divorcing-sulking-H-will-it-happen-in-2020?msgid=102523551

But exH appealed against the judge's initial decision so we had to go back to court in mid-February and with COVID etc. the ruling came in June 2020.

The saga continued as the judge ruled she didn't have enough information to make a decision about custody (exH didn't provide any) and so in November 2020 the whole family had to go for a "psychological assessment".

Right now we are still:

• waiting for the expert's psychological report as to whether exH is safe to have the DC overnight
• still waiting for the designated solicitor to draw up a financial settlement
• waiting for exH to agree to the divorce - but after 2 years living separately (May 2021 or September 2021) he will have no choice.

Which is why 2021 WILL be the year of the divorce !

I keep posting after all this time because:

a) I have had and continue to get brilliant, incisive, caring advice and support from other posters
b) I regularly see threads from women with "sulking" partners and who might (I hope) gain some insight into their situation by taking a look at my threads and the advice on them
c) my threads are absolute proof of the fact that leaving an abusive man is dangerous (even when you are not even sure yourself whether he is really abusive or not). We were a "normal" family, looked "perfect" from the outside, and suddenly we have been involved with social services, police, courts. I can't even begin to imagine how hard all that must be without the financial means and real-life/online support that I have had.

Happy also for anyone to PM me if anything in my threads strikes a chord with you

Oh @jamaisjedors, I'm so sorry you're euro young through it. What a dickhead 🤬
I'm wondering though, can you think of him like a storm that whips up every so often but will eventually blow himself out? Just ignore all his huffing and puffing, easier said than done though I know.

Jesus, need to stop swipe typing & not checking what it's said 🙄
I'm so sorry you're still going through this!

I really feel for you. Hang in there! I have just in the last week had my decree absolute from a very similar man. Took me 3 1/2 years and over £50k in legal fees. He has destroyed my children mental health and they will no longer see him. We also had to move out of the family home like you as he refused to.

These men are utter dicks.

I really hope that you can get some better news and your divorce soon. It does end eventually.

Wow, didn't expect so many replies, thank you all ! Thought everyone would be sick of this by now - as I am !

To answer a couple of questions, I don't think this necessarily holds up the divorce process as at least it means that there is an agreement to divorce on both sides.

However exH is asking for compensation (in total about 15000€ plus legal fees[ which he could possibly be awarded if the judge decides he deserves it.

It would also be ridiculously galling to finish up being blamed for this divorce and having to pay him off, but if that's what it takes, it will probably be the best money I ever spend.

@realynotfair sorry to hear that but glad you are through the other side, 50K is probably what we'll have added up to (each![ by the time this is over... horrific....

As several of you say, it's about control and power. He has lost the battle over custody (or decided to abandon it[ and can't possibly let ME divorce HIM.

I also think that he genuinely has persuaded himself - or deluded himself - that what he says, actually did happen.

Back when he was in the psychiatric unit and I saw his psychiatrist, the doctor asked me why I had "suddenly" decided to up and leave on a whim and why I was abandoning my husband in his hour of need.

This despite us having agreed that I would leave, and then HAVING to leave as I was in danger if I stayed in the family home. And also me calling everyday to find out how he was but being told nothing as he forbade the staff to speak to me.

Sigh ........

Not seeing my lawyer/barrister for another 3 weeks so will start putting together my counter-arguments and then try and forget about it for a little while.

EXH has asked for an extension in proceedings because we still don't have the financial report, but we are asking to stick to the original time-table which means a hearing 3rd week in November.
Going away for the night tonight with MR DJ which will be a nice change

@RonSwansonsChair the storm is a good metaphor, thank you.

If he divorces you does it work like in the UK meaning he can delay things by not filing papers etc?

I also think that he genuinely has persuaded himself - or deluded himself - that what he says, actually did happen

Yes, this. He seems to be some kind of narcissist/covert narcissist and this sort of delusion is common. It's that thing where you feel like you're having two completely different conversations because he accuses you of X, you point out that you couldn't possibly have done X because of Y and he then announces that you have just proved his point. Insanely frustrating but reminding yourself of the delusion makes it a bit easier I think.

If he won't agree to the divorce on separation I would inform him that you will be divorce him for emotional abuse.

I do worry if he divorces you then he will control how long it takes.

Emotional abuse isn't considered an offence in France, yet

It would also be ridiculously galling to finish up being blamed for this divorce and having to pay him off, but if that's what it takes, it will probably be the best money I ever spend.

Cheering you on from the sidelines, this seems to me to be a very healthy approach for you to take.

Let's hope it doesn't come to it and that it's all sorted sooooon. You so don't deserve any of this.

I really hope the judge doesn't buy his bullshit. Surely there is already a pile of eveidence and narrative in the system to counter his claims? What a pathetic specimen he is.

Jesus, he really is an arsehole, isnt he

He really is a piece of work. It would be a hill I would die on but I wouldn't (if you can at all manage it) not to pay him 'compensation' for divorcing him. I know there are different rules in France for a divorce to go ahead. You were in fear for your life. You had no option but to leave and separate and subsequently file for divorce from him.

It would absolutely sicken me (if I were in your shoes) if I had to pay him a single cent as 'compensation' and I would use whatever legal routes that were open to me to argue that to a judge. Surely you can adjust your request for divorce as a divorce requested for fault (in him) whereby you were fearful for your own life and that of your children? He was mentally abusive to you and you had no option except to leave. You have the evidence to support that argument, right?

Sorry - just reading that the double negative "wouldn't not". Oops. I mean I wouldn't pay him if you can at all manage that.

Still cheering you on from the sidelines and thinking that you did the best thing for you and the boys when you actually left. I'd say they would agree too.

Pay him ??? He's been living in the family home, & you have done most of the running around, the boys gave lived 75 % of the time with you.
I'm guessing he also earns more than you
He's dragging it out as punishment, any judge will see it at a million miles.
Idiot

I really really don't want to pay him to divorce him and of course will fight hard against that. The evidence is kind of slim as at the time noone wanted to "kick exH while he was down" so none of the people who witnessed directly what happened were prepared to make an official statement.

"Sam", the friend who was there with me at the pyschiatric unit may now be prepared to make a statement but he is so shaken up by the whole thing that I would feel bad asking him - he refused at the time.

I have the statement I made to the police but that's only my version of events. OTOH I do have some evidence that we agreed that I should move out of the house and then I will be able to produce my statementabout why that happened so suddenly when exH was in hospital.

I also have emails where he accuses me of abandoning him in the hospital (in his hour of need[ and a long reply on my part detailing all the times I called to check he was ok, kept his family informed etc.

I'm hoping that's enought and that the judge will see through him. I don't have any concrete evidence at all of emotional abuse, the only person who could testify to that would be his sister, and again, I don't want to add to the family rift any more than the situation already has.

Op - you should ask your lawyer if your MN threads count at all. You have it all documented, more or less in real time, here....

But from memory, after his behaviour escalated over a long period of time including attempting to coerce you for sex and various other manipulative tactics that were negatively affecting both you and your DC, you told him that you wanted to end the relationship. This led to him kicking off and generally behaving like a crazy person and ultimately, him being admitted to hospital. During this time, you did attempt to care for him - ensuring he was receiving medical care etc - while also protecting yourself. He made this difficult by refusing to allow doctors etc to talk to you or share information with you, even though you were his wife.

Subsequently, you agreed to move out of the family home and have been paying rent on a different home. You have also taken on the bulk of the childcare. I am not sure who is paying what at the moment, but from memory, he has resisted paying to help with the DC and has been erratic and unreliable both financially and practically, never mind emotionally.

In addition, at a practical level, I believe you have consistently turned up at court when asked, provided the correct documentation on time etc while he has done none of this, regularly asking for extensions, not turning up etc.

Basically, I am no lawyer and I know nothing about the French system, but it seems to me that it will be very difficult for him to prove abandonment by you based on what the rest of us have see over and over again. He may well feel abandoned, but that doesn't mean it's real.

Don't forget (though how could you as you were living through it) this all came to a head because he was sulking around the time you went away back in 2017 and 2018.

I remember reading your posts back then and I think you're really wonderful to be at this point from the person you were back then.

If I were you, I'd put together a statement of how you felt at the time and after you immediately left the family home. If others won't write their own statements, could you write one for them, ask them if they believe that this is a true and accurate state of things from their observation point and ask them to sign that instead?

The thing about the emotional abuse is that he did that behind closed doors. It wasn't obvious, it was subtle and just kept wearing you down.

Sorry if I have remember incorrectly, but didn't you both see a therapist at the time? Could they make a statement of fact of broadly what you both talking about?

It might be worth going back through your threads to see if it jogs your memory that could lead to any helpful evidence.

Another long term supporter who is still rooting for you jamais. Hang in there.

Surely the proof of him being in hospital is the same as the proof of why you left. Is he trying to twist it into “you left and therefore he had to go into hospital”? Does the judge need reminding that it’s “he had a breakdown and was a danger to himself and you, therefore he was hospitalised and you left for your own safety”?

Or he is trying to argue that he had a breakdown that was completely unrelated and that’s the time you picked to leave him without any prior warning? That’s not going to stand up, you guys had been to counselling together right?, he can’t say it was out of the blue.

His logic won’t hold up, don’t worry. The judge will see through it!

and hey, glad to hear things with Mr DJ are still going well ☺️

I am assuming the story he is telling is that the marriage was in touble, which caused him to have a breakdown and be hospitalised. And rather than helping or caring, Jamais heartlessly abandoned him at his moment of need, taking the children with her, which further increased his already fragile mental health.

Unfortunately there seems like there may be a fair amount of evidence that this was not the case.

I would agree to looking at submitting these threads as an account - even if its only highlights of your updates and a few relevent bits of advice. Plus yes, your own therapist's support.

Good grief, my first marriage and divorce was shorter than this thread.

Are you always this helpful @YesreallyHeDid ? Sometimes things get drawn out but it's beyond your control and that is clearly what has happened here with jamais.

Actually I have been supportive to jamais throughout all her threads, I think it's dreadful that the STBXH can manipulate the system, just to cause trouble for the OP. She has repeatedly said - he doesn't like to loose, and all he is doing by prolonging it is bullying her.

"Surely the proof of him being in hospital is the same as the proof of why you left. Is he trying to twist it into “you left and therefore he had to go into hospital”? Does the judge need reminding that it’s “he had a breakdown and was a danger to himself and you, therefore he was hospitalised and you left for your own safety”?

Or he is trying to argue that he had a breakdown that was completely unrelated and that’s the time you picked to leave him without any prior warning? That’s not going to stand up, you guys had been to counselling together right?, he can’t say it was out of the blue."

You are all right, his accusations are contradictory.

He is claiming I upped and left the house" abandon du domicile conjugal " in french which is justification for an at fault divorce.

And I also that I abandoned him when he was in the hospital.

Even if on some technicality he gets an at fault divorce, it makes no difference to finances or custody.

He is however asking for "damages" and that I be liable for all the lawyers fees and court fees.
Having had time to think about it, I really don't think he will get any as the judges seem quite reluctant to award damages in divorce and also there is no proof of any prejudice to him.

So worst case scenario I am blamed for the divorce.

But the divorce gets done!

Obviously worst case would be having to pay him but we'll cross that bridge when and if it comes to it.