To flee to a friend's?

[AIBU124]

NC for this as I want to keep this as anonymous as possible.

Bit of a muddle, this one. I'll try to keep it as simple as poss. I'm in my early 20's and still live with my mum as I've had a rough go of it with mental health over the years and struggle with some of the independence that comes with being an adult. My mum has had chronic pain over the years as well, and also struggles with her mental health.

The family as a whole has an issue with letting the house turn into a tip, and I'm one of the worst offenders. I seem to almost be blind to mess and clutter, and can easily sit in a room for days letting mess accumulate around me. It's been this way since I was very little and all concentrated efforts only last for a few days before it all falls apart again.

This, understandably, has always upset my mum. It's one of our biggest causes of arguments, and while most of these are unpleasant at best, sometimes when she explodes, she, well- Explodes.

Today was one of those times. To cut an already long post short, there was an argument over not being up at an early enough time to help clean the house, and not tidying the kitchen the day before. I must admit that I'd frozen up and was non-responsive at this time, and didn't move when she told me to leave the room. In anger, she grabbed me by the throat and pushed me back into the wall, which was enough to make me hyperventilate from fear and panic while she shouted at me.

After cursing at me to move, and being too frozen to do so, she pulled me hard by the hair once, as if she was going to drag me to the kitchen, which was enough for me to stumble out. I stumbled my way through the tidying in tears, still breathing hard and dry-heaving a few times.

When I brought it up to her a few hours later, after talking with friends and having them point out that, as in the wrong as I was for not pulling my weight, it wasn't right for her to physically threaten me like that, I brought it up to her over dinner. I said it was scary to go through and made me not want to be around her, and that if a partner were to do the same to me I would be told to leave them. She apologised, but countered that it was also abusive and shitty of me to chronically fail to help her out when she asked.

I feel like us being around each other at this point is feeding into our respective mental health issues. I am frightened at not being able to read when she'll get overtly angry (she normally keeps it to raising her voice, slamming doors, and throwing objects), and she is understandably hurt and frustrated at my chronic failures at keeping the house clean. (Recently diagnosed with adhd but that's not a complete excuse, plenty of others with adhd can clean up after themselves).

When I told a friend this he said that I should consider contacting the housing office for help tomorrow, and graciously offered to let me stay with him to create some space and help me feel a little steadier. I know we're in the midst of lockdown, but I can barely look at my mum and the tension between us is thick enough to cut with a knife. I don't know if I can feel the same amount of trust for her again, as dramatic as that is.

So am I being unreasonable to go to my friend's? Am I not putting enough blame on myself?

Agree with others, your mum should not of assaulted you
But I don’t think it’s a good idea for you to move in with anyone, make it female until you start taking responsibility for your untidiness.

Yes, you should leave (just don't ruin the friendship by making a mess). You sound to me like you have taken responsibility and understand the part you have played in this, but no one should ever be physically assaulted. It shouldn't happen. And what was interesting to me is you mention before she did this and was 'just' at the angry stage, you were "frozen" and "unresponsive". That's not a normal initial reaction. That's a person reacting to their parent with fight, flight and freeze, in this case freeze. That's a trauma response. I'm guessing (I may be wrong) that there are lots more stories from your childhood. Maybe not physical, but not good. Which is also why you should leave. You may feel your friends sugarcoat, but they also see the bigger picture as outside observers.

I say all this as someone who grew up with a mother who has chronic pain and mental health issues. Those two problems together, in my experience, lead families to forgive an awful lot of shitty behaviour and parenting. I am having therapy with this now, in my thirties. My sibling is early twenties and like you struggles with becoming independent. In fact initially I wondered if I was reading a post written by them. From my perspective, a little more on the outside, I can see our mother plays a big role in their difficulty in going out in the world. They have quite a codependent relationship. If called out on anything, our mother leans on her pain or her mental health and it's near impossible not to feel guilty and that therefore anything should be forgiven.

In my opinion, though maybe I'm biased, you don't get to the position you are in just by magic, or because you're a rubbish person. There were steps to get there and there are steps that are keeping you not living like a 'normal' (for want of a better word) 20something.

It's sad to see with my sibling. For them I think it happened in part because our childhood experiences and mother's behaviour is endlessly excused as she has pain and a background of trauma and poor mental health. While that gives some understanding and I feel empathic towards her, it shouldn't be a free pass. There is no excuse for your mother to physically assault you no matter how annoying your behaviour.

Those voting yabu should look closely at themselves if they think physical violence is excusable.

ADHD is a condition which causes huge difficulties with things like home management (can't think of a better phrase). It's a neurological condition which, shockingly, has an effect on people's ability to function well. OP also alludes to mental health issues, which again classically cause issues like this.

Thank you for this.

OP, I understand. Keeping the space around you tidy is really, really hard. Lots of people on this thread just have no idea how inattentive ADHD works. Look after yourself.

If you can rent a room in a shared house, be much cheaper than renting a whole house. Then it is up to you the state if your own room, but the rest of the house will have to be kept to whatever standards is set by the owner or people who share.

@AIBU124

First and most important to say is that it was completely wrong of your mother to physically attack you. You know this, but you also know that you have played a part in this. Violence is always wrong, and is never the answer but it’s hard to say much more on this when I don’t know if this is the first time your mother has assaulted you and is simply a woman struggling with her own health/mental health and having gotten to a point of complete exasperation made the terrible choice of assaulting you in that moment. On the flip side maybe it’s just one assault out of many, and perhaps this one is the worst one yet and suggests the violence is escalating, and that this is a pattern of abuse. With the limited information you have given it’s hard to tell exactly the situation here.

As to your question as to whether you should move out, I think you should yes. Do I think you should move in with this friend, no I don’t. Why? Well the issues your mum has with you will become this friends issue too, and this friend is unlikely to be accepting of your mess/living habits either. Moving in with a friend is going to eventually just lead to you being in an even more vulnerable and unstable situation. You need to be honest with yourself, if you can’t be responsible for your own mess, clean up after yourself and make a reasonable contribution to house chores now, this isn’t going to suddenly change just because your living at a different address. You may make the effort initially because it’s a friends house, and you won’t have the same level of comfort as you do now (in the home in which you’ve known and lived in for years with family) to just let your messy habits run riot, so you’ll keep yourself in check, but this will last only a little while. Eventually, your habits, your mess will creep in bit by bit and before you know it your friend will be upset and angry with you too. For the sake of your friendship, and for the sake of your own stability do not move in with them. If you do you’ll just ruin the friendship and end up with one less person to support you.

As a friend I would want to help you too, but supporting a friend with the issues you have and living with a friend with the issues you have are two very different things indeed. While you friend may be well intentioned now, they may not feel as such after weeks or months of living with you, and any mess and issues that come with that.

If you think that you can behave any better living with a friend, you need to ask yourself why you think that. What will it be about living with a friend that will mean you can suddenly clean up after yourself, do chores and contribute to keeping the house tidy? If you feel you could do that there, why can’t you do it now at home?

So what do you do? I think you need to try and address your own issues, you know what they are, and you have seen how they affect you and how they affect others. You need to make a prolonged and concerted effort to do better, you can not live at home forever, or with a friend forever, at some point you are going to have to stand on your own two feet and be an adult. Better to start this sooner than later and learn whatever methods or coping mechanisms you need to put in place that will work for you.

I am sorry and very sympathetic that you have these issues that you struggle with, and I’m sure you would rather be without them. Plenty of people find it hard to be tidy, and very few people actually look forward to cleaning but the majority of us find a way to deal with it and make ourselves do it because we know that we need to, and you need to do it too. Cleaning and tidying is an effort for most, and it’s an effort for you too, there is nothing about this that isn’t normal. That part that isn’t normal is to be wilfully ignorant of it and to allow to mess and dirt to accumulate, this is the crux of your issue. You see it, you know it’s there, you know it’s happening, and the more it accumulates the more you ignore it, and the more you ignore it the harder it becomes to deal with it. What you need to do is find a way of keeping on top of it that works. So maybe for you that could be a list of say 5 things you do every day no matter what, no excuses, you just do it. These 5 things will be the minimum of what you do, but you must do them and make that expectation of yourself, and once you do that and can stick to it you can add more. The thing is to start small, with things you think you can manage and give yourself praise for managing those things and being able to keep it up. If you make it attainable to start with, and really make the effort to stick to it, you can let your confidence grow as you will see that you CAN do it, you are capable of doing it and sticking to it, you just need to find the right way of being able to make yourself do it. We ALL need to make ourselves do these things, no one is ever sat down and looked forward to bleaching the loo and taking out the rubbish that’s normal, but we make ourselves do it, and you can make yourself do it too.

In respect of your long term living situation you have a couple of options, the first of which is accessing any support you can get from your local adult social care team who will also deal with housing for people who need support or assistance in living alone. The other option is going direct to the council and presenting yourself as homeless, however in your position I would go through the adult social care team because you need the additional support. It’s a long road and it’s not easy to get help, especially right now, but you must be committed to getting help and do all you can to help yourself and get access to the assistance you know you need.

You CAN do it!!! I wish you lots of luck

I feel like us being around each other at this point is feeding into our respective mental health issues

This is at he heart of this.

I don’t think you are necessarily a ‘messy person’ but a person who simply cannot respond to the need to function in terms of clearing up or having demands placed on you.

However understandable, it is really hard living with someone with MH issues, really hard. And with your Mum in pain and also having MH issues, she must feel as if she has no control in her own home, and your problems affecting the environment she lives in.

I am not excusing the physical assault as part of her explosion, but even if this had not happened I think it sounds healthier for you to be apart.

Hopefully some of the great advice in this thread will result in you getting the right support for your housing and MH needs.

Good luck OP.

It's time to move out definitely.

The thing is, you go to you friends, how long will it be when they give you the heave ho for being messy? Maybe it'll be something you can learn while there.

Your mother is wrong for attacking you. You would be perfectly within your rights to report it. Ultimately though as with any abusive situation, it's time to part company.

There comes a time when adult children need to move out and yours is well and truly past .

@ThinkIveFoundYourMarbles

ADHD is a condition which causes huge difficulties with things like home management (can't think of a better phrase). It's a neurological condition which, shockingly, has an effect on people's ability to function well. OP also alludes to mental health issues, which again classically cause issues like this.

Thank you for this.

OP, I understand. Keeping the space around you tidy is really, really hard. Lots of people on this thread just have no idea how inattentive ADHD works. Look after yourself.

You're right. But there are ways to learn. A chart to tick off, alarm reminders. In this day and age there are plenty of ways to keep on top of this sort of thing. It's essential as an adult to learn skills, even if it has to be done a different way to the usual.

I agree you should move out. Your mum's behaviour was wrong. However, I am not sure that you should view moving in with your friend as a first alternative. First of all, has he ever given any indication that he fancies you? If you think he might then absolutely do not move in with him, it would lead to a horribly complicated situation. Also, how well do you know him? Is he a good guy who wouldnt take advantage of the inevitable power inbalance between you? (both in terms of your MH and the fact he is doing you a massive favour). I know how cynical that sounds, and if you know he is a good guy then it is likely he is just making an incredibly kind and generous offer. I would still not take him up on it without having first explored other alternatives - you could contact Shelter or CAB for advice on how to proceed. That you need to leave your mums is a definate - but make sure that yiou end up in the best place. Lastly if you do move in you need a very clear agreement between you as in

• how much rent you pay
• responisibilities for cleaning etc
• how long you are staying
• who needs to use the bathroom, when (eg if someone needs to get ready for work in the morning, they get priority)

This thread is disgusting I’m reporting it to mumsnet for supporting abuse and sending mixed messages to victims of abuse. Do people suggesting that abuse is about power physical imbalance only not realise that men can be abused too and that emotional abuse is a crime?

There is pretty much always a power imbalance between parent and child if the relationship has always been abusive- it is very difficult for a child that has been raised by controlling parents to stick up for themselves (as they’ve been taught and indoctrinated to do the opposite).

A relationship where a mum constantly uses physical and verbal violence against her adult child - to the point the adult child is walking on eggshells and can’t read a book for fear of being bollocked is not just instances of assault but full blown ABUSE.

Further, ADHD is not a joke - the OP has a differently wired brain. It’s not just a case of tidying up - she needs professional help to be able to learn do this. And given her family is messy too and allow things to build up before doing a full scale tidy, suggests they may have untreated adhd as well.

What posters should be suggesting is OP seeks alternative housing and seeks treatment for her ADHD asap. And that OP shouldn’t blame herself for her mum’s violence towards her. If I’m being unreasonable my mother would ask me to leave, not physically assault me. Violence is never ok.

You're right. But there are ways to learn. A chart to tick off, alarm reminders. In this day and age there are plenty of ways to keep on top of this sort of thing. It's essential as an adult to learn skills, even if it has to be done a different way to the usual.

OP says she is only recently diagnosed. It will take time and support before she learns these skills effectively.

@Dannydevitoiloveyourart

This thread is disgusting I’m reporting it to mumsnet for supporting abuse and sending mixed messages to victims of abuse. Do people suggesting that abuse is about power physical imbalance only not realise that men can be abused too and that emotional abuse is a crime?

There is pretty much always a power imbalance between parent and child if the relationship has always been abusive- it is very difficult for a child that has been raised by controlling parents to stick up for themselves (as they’ve been taught and indoctrinated to do the opposite).

A relationship where a mum constantly uses physical and verbal violence against her adult child - to the point the adult child is walking on eggshells and can’t read a book for fear of being bollocked is not just instances of assault but full blown ABUSE.

Further, ADHD is not a joke - the OP has a differently wired brain. It’s not just a case of tidying up - she needs professional help to be able to learn do this. And given her family is messy too and allow things to build up before doing a full scale tidy, suggests they may have untreated adhd as well.

What posters should be suggesting is OP seeks alternative housing and seeks treatment for her ADHD asap. And that OP shouldn’t blame herself for her mum’s violence towards her. If I’m being unreasonable my mother would ask me to leave, not physically assault me. Violence is never ok.

I wish there was a way I could like this post! I’m actually appalled at some of the comments on here. A victim of assault comes here looking for support and all she gets is a rollicking from holier than thou posters about being messy and is told that it’s her own fault.

@ThinkIveFoundYourMarbles

You're right. But there are ways to learn. A chart to tick off, alarm reminders. In this day and age there are plenty of ways to keep on top of this sort of thing. It's essential as an adult to learn skills, even if it has to be done a different way to the usual.

OP says she is only recently diagnosed. It will take time and support before she learns these skills effectively.

Yes it will. But pointing out there are options and it's not all hopeless and just the way it is might help.

Anyway, I hope you're ok OP. You've had a shock and I hope you're talking about it to someone IRL on what to do next. Your mother, no matter how exasperated had no right to lay hands on you.

You need to leave and contact police to report the assault and then contact housing to tell them you are homeless due to a domestic violence situation.

This will hopefully get you a place in a shelter or temporary accommodation. Good luck

I haven’t RTFT.

How is your mother usually? Physical abuse of this nature doesn’t come out of nowhere ime. Usually there’s other abuse going on that you may not be aware of. Emotional, manipulative etc?

You mention your mental health struggles. If you are in a Traumatic environment no matter what you do it’ll be extremely hard to get better. Not impossible just very hard. You won’t be able to build the routines and what not needed when highly anxious.

And you don’t mention (that I can see) exactly how old you are but if you’ve never left home and never been taught or MODELLED these skills by your parents I’m not exactly sure how your mother expects you to know. Though as an adult you do have a responsibility to learn these things and it’s OK to ask for help and to take a bit of time learning them.

I mean, you know that things shouldn’t be the way they are but it takes a while to unlearn what you’ve been ‘taught’ along with your difficulties

Fwiw I had the opposite. Abusive home but the expectation to be super obsessive clean. Chores were enforced daily and repeated until done ‘right’ often made to hoover 3/4 times a day and would have all the dishes pulled out the cupboards and forced to wash them all extreme. As such when I did leave home I went the opposite direction because I only ever linked cleaning to abuse and it took a long time to work through that and find a healthier balance. Mess still makes me anxious but not as bad as it used to be.

I expect you to go through some similar ‘wobble’ shall we say as you work through your Mental health struggles but also deal with the abuse from your mother.

Find somewhere safe to be, report to the police if you feel it necessary and seek some help from your GP. In fact letting your GP know your struggles will open the door for some talking therapies so you can get some good, unbiased advice on your situation and you can explore your relationship with your parents.

Yes it will. But pointing out there are options and it's not all hopeless and just the way it is might help.

Ah, ok. Agree!

wtf even is this thread?

no of course it's not okay EVER to physically abuse someone. I have high standards of cleaning and my partners lack of drives me insane but I would hate to imagine the response I'd get both on here and in real life if I said I then assaulted him because he didnt help me tidy up the kitchen.

OP please do not let anyone undermine what she did to you. it was wrong and yes, you should leave.

[quote Labobo]@MissLucyEyelesbarrow - yes and only on MN are all men potential abusers. Maybe her friend will let her stay for a while and give her some support until she works out what to do next. I wouldn't live with a parent who throttled me. Are you suggesting OP should stay where she is?[/quote]
Potentially yes. There is a balance of risks here. Her friend may be the nicest person in the world but he is likely to get tired of hosting her at some point. What happens next?

Have you ever tried to get emergency housing for a vulnerable person? I do it multiple times each year. Recently I had a young woman who was homeless due to domestic violence. Social services offered her a tent. It was snowing.

It's not great that the OP may not be able to leave her Mum's immediately, but it may be the safest short-term option.

@RedElephants @whaa there is never an excuse to physically lay hands on someone else unless you are in danger from them. Never. get that into your heads. sick

I’m shocked that so many posters are blaming you for being assaulted because you’re a bit messy. A bit of mess won’t kill anyone whereas being grabbed by the throat is extremely dangerous. It’s considered one of the highest risk indicators of a dangerous abuser.

@AIBU124 do you have any bruising or pain from your mother’s attack? However you feel, you need to report your mother’s abuse to the police and a domestic violence charity. Hopefully you will get help to find somewhere safe to stay.

You’ve been assaulted, that is never ok and never justified.

Get out.

Yes you really need to sort the mess out, but it does not justify assault.