Married to someone with Aspergers: support thread 5

[Bluebellforest1]

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A couple of the worst arguments were when I asked DP if he wanted to go out to a lovely evening out together in an activity that I know we both love. For him it was an assault and a presumption, he reacted that strongly to it.

I hear you @Blossominspring2021. My DH also says it feels like an assault. Just the other day we were talking about going somewhere for the day. It was fine while we were talking about it like it was some hypothetical idea and he was joining in with ideas and the fact we could take a picnic and our neighbour’s dog who we look after from time to time. As soon as I looked it up on the internet and the idea started to become a possibility he reacted very strongly ‘Stop putting me under so much pressure. Why do you always want to do stuff? This is why we should never have got together in the first place. You’re always forcing me to do things I don’t want to do’.

It was a day out to a local beauty spot, that’s all.

@RainyMayDay so interesting that your DH also says it feels like an assault. It’s a bit of a shock to have our partners say that we are pressurising them and very hard not to take personally. Once when I got quite upset and said, why do you never go out with me but you are quite happy to go out often without me? He said ‘because I see you all the time in the home why do I need to do anything outside?’

For DP, I think, trying to get my head around it, he could not see why I wanted to do things outside as from a pure point of view, he didn’t need to, I wasn’t going anywhere. He’d made the effort before marriage and that was it, done. I tried to make him see that this made me feel invisible and like a dowdy housekeeper. I think I could have accept it more if he didn’t really like going out, if he always stayed in, but he (pre pandemic) would go out most weeks until late with a broad group of acquaintances whilst I was at home with the children. Again he couldn’t see the problem, as he said I could do out too by myself.

Apologies for the misspellings!

But @RainyMayDay I completely get it. It ‘teaches’ us that it is better not to ask too much, however family life does need a bit of variety and going out sometimes in order to be healthy and happy. These things aren’t superfluous like a day out in the sunshine. I don’t ask anymore, I just say ‘me and DS are doing this’. Interestingly I had a LOT of resistance to this, Purely because it involved DS, who thrives on being able to go out and it’s kept him curious and open (he likes it as part of a routine but he still loves it). DP has called me very controlling for ensuring the DS has variety in his life and we do a lot of things together. It’s like he wants DS to be like him, with him always in the home, but not doing anything. He is similar with activities in the home with DS, does not want to do them and gets very cross if he has to. A very strong reaction.

I’ve been lurking on these threads for ages. I am sure my DH has Aspergers (undiagnosed). Our DS has Aspergers so I am fully aware of the signs. DH & I have been together over 20 years, they haven’t exactly been filled with joy but not all bad but I really feel I have mentally checked out of the marriage. DH is very hard work in lots of ways, I find the constant misinterpreting everything I say and taking it as a personal criticism so draining. He’s not sociable at all unless it’s something he’s interested in and then he can talk on and on to someone about it. He can talk to me about his hobby, work etc and I’m expected to sit and listen excitedly, but when I try and talk to him I see his eyes glazing over and I can see his irritation and he just wants me to stop talking. I feel totally on my own emotionally, like my needs are never considered, all his focus is on himself and how he feels. I feel like over the years the lack of care of me has just made all the love disappear. My teenage DD who is NT has started picking up on things and asks why he does things and I struggle to give her answers. Too many things have happened over the years to mention but I have to organise everything, all the mental load has fallen on me, all the care of the DCs. My 2 are older now but whenever I see a dad out with a baby or toddlers by himself looking after them it catches me every single time as I realise that never happened in our relationship. The few times I went away for the night I had to write detailed instructions and he normally got his parents over to help. He’s not a bad person and financially he’s always been generous but I feel totally and utterly unloved, he lives in his head constantly, has little space for anything else, is always the glass is half empty and I find being with him totally draining a lot of the time. I’m lucky I’ve got some good friends and have carved out a life for myself but I don’t feel like I am in a partnership, just living alongside someone who doesn’t understand me and I don’t really understand them.

Gosh @Turquoisesea I hear you with the 'mental load!' It's all on me as well, and it's so exhausting because you are in demand 24/7. But it's so unfair. Because then being responsible, organised (or 'controlling' ) etc means we just get saddled with huge amounts of pressure while the partner seems to get off Scott-free so to speak. I hate, hate, hate the fact I've somehow got trapped into the role of surrendered 50s housewife where I am automatically in charge of everything, the kids walk past H to ask me something he could easily do/answer, and I am expected to be everything to everybody every time. Me as a person has completely disappeared, particularly during this year of lockdowns.

We've actually had quite a nice weekend-ish so I shouldn't really feel so bitter. H did spend time with me last night, watched a film, had a drink and a chat, really nice. Then today I've been out so he's watched movies with the kids, then went for a quick walk all together. Then we've got back from the park, done bedtime (with me prodding him to help me), and as soon as the kids are down he's disappeared into his room leaving me alone again. The closeness from last night is just gone, poof. I do get he's had a full on day with family stuff, and no doubt needs to decompress a bit, but where's the harm in just saying 'hey wifey I'm gonna chill on my own a bit' rather than just vanishing and me expected to mind read and just be ok with it. You can bet if I did a disappearing act without saying a word and left him to sort the kids out I'd hear all kinds of stuff about how he's not a mind reader and I should communicate with him!

@Blossominspring2021 my son is autistic too, high functioning, but still vulnerable and it is such a worry when the other grown up's parenting is in doubt. He's coming up to 7 as well and in many ways his younger sister is actually much more capable than him. I worry leaving them with H right now, but hope in the future as they are getting more mature they'll be able to either look after themselves - or else tell H clearly what they need, which they struggle with at the moment. He has trouble understanding their needs and then he gets frustrated, they get frustrated, and it always escalates into tears. Or else he tries to be funny but because he is sarcastic or has a flat tone and blank expression, they think he's being serious and they get upset. It's really hard because our kids are super sensitive and H of course is not at all aware, so it doesn't take much to tip the balance.

It's so natural for NT people to now want to start doing things, I wonder if all our autistic partners are fearing the return to 'normal'. Of course for us it's completely normal to want to make plans, book holidays, get days out organised now that places are opening up. I've just started booking things and like a pp said, not inviting him. I took the kids to a farm and H was leaving for work and said to the kids 'oh I wish I could come.' He works for himself and could have 2-3 days off a week if he chose! He frequently has a morning off just because he's tired (from gaming all night ) or finishes early because he wants to do something for himself. I just lightly said 'You know you could come, I told you about it last week, and it'll only be 2 hours like a long break for you' and he just blustered and blathered with excuses.

I see a lot of us talking about loneliness. My SIL is a recent single parent, and she knows some of what I go through with H and thinks she actually has it easier. She can just organise herself, get the kids sorted, get out and enjoy the time - all without someone dragging their feet and/or putting a spanner in the works. I know obviously being a single parent is extremely hard work but most of the time I feel like I'm solo anyway.

@AspergersWife the DCs come to me for everything and I feel like I’m the only parent really. That resonated with me about your DH taking himself off upstairs, my DH does that all the time but doesn’t tell me that’s what he’s doing. I have done everything with the DCs over the years, it’s the constant only doing things if he wants to to do them and literally no compromise. I feel like he doesn’t act like a parent, expects me to do all the parenting but then gets cross with the DCs if they leave a mess, make a noise, usual teenagers stuff. I agree with your 50s housewife comment, that’s what my life has become. My DM has been ill over the past few years and I’ve had no real support with that she’s now in a care home in palliative care and he’s not really been supportive. When I tried to tell him how upsetting it was visiting her his answer was well just don’t go . I know he probably can’t help all these things and like I said he’s not a bad person and works hard and is very good at his job but there’s no emotional partnership and it’s a very lonely place to be. If it wasn’t for the DCs I wouldn’t still be here.

@Turquoisesea that sounds very hard on you. As you say he’s stable, generous and you sound like you have both stuck together for many years. However that mental load, like you say, where it comes across as if you are the family, not you and your husband. That’s a lonely place to be. My DP is pretty good with the housework which is great and feels very supportive. But then will just bound into the kids at odd times and expect instant rapport - when he hadn’t engaged with them for days.
@AspergersWife I’m glad that you’ve had a nice weekend, to remind you that you can feel together and close. With the load on you, it’s just needing to be appreciated and just feel ‘together’ I guess? I hope you aren’t feeling too bad now that he’s ‘disappeared’. I know I used to have some really nice weekends with DP, like you said, just watching TV together really and he was affectionate and attentive. I found myself then more naturally engaging, even small things like chatting a bit in the kitchen, catching his hand, being a bit flirty - but then would be dropped like a stone so when I did those things I felt a complete fool. It made me feel needy.

@friendlygal79
I once told him his hair was cut a lopsided at the back. He totally dismissed me. Later on after an evening at the pub he said ‘apparently Gill said my hair is cut lopsided’. This may seem trivial but it really hurts and makes me feel that everyone is more important than me!

Yes. I could have written this a hundred times over. I can make a suggestion. Any suggestion. Falls on deaf ears. Colleague makes the same suggestion. Best idea ever.

I have concluded that he doesn’t hear my suggestion because I am here all the time and it just loses impact. I often think he doesn’t respect me for being married to him. There’s nothing to gain from following my suggestion because he has already ‘won’ me. Gill has not been won over, however. He still values Gill’s opinion because she is not part of him.

@Turquoisesea sorry to hear about your DM, that's very hard with little support. My DM is not in the best of health and I dread dealing with that aspect of the future as I know I'll basically be facing it alone as H won't be any emotional support. Much sympathy to you.

I think I had higher hopes of the weekend as we'd chatted about finding the balance earlier in the week, then I'd overheard H say to his gaming buddies on Friday night 'I'll see you Monday, I won't be on til then.' So stupidly assumed 'wow he's going to stay off and hang with me for a whole weekend, amazing.' Obviously he'd not communicated any of that to me, I'd just overheard and presumed. So last night when he disappeared, it turns out he was still playing the game - but solo, just not as part of his online group! And yes as you said @Blossominspring2021 it makes me feel needy too. It's like they give their all, we get sucked in, then there's suddenly a void. Where are we supposed to put all our feelings when that huge space opens up?

I finally jokingly said something like '2 days in a row with me is too much to expect eh?' His reply was too echo my words from earlier in the week, 'it's all about balance'. So in his mind, he's still playing the game but not with his friends, so therefore that's a better balance? If he's doing 1 night 'on' then 1 off like our marriage is some kind of shift work, surely now Monday night should be 'my' night? Yet he's told his friends he'll be playing tonight... I'll be interested to see how his vastly superior (in his eyes), black-and-white, no wriggle room, no grey area or compromise logic jumps through mental hoops to justify another disappearance this evening.

I'd love to just take myself off out as well, do the vanishing act onH. However he wouldn't notice at all, but our children don't settle well. So they'd be the ones who suffer. They'd be crying out for whatever, he'd have his headphones on not aware, and I'd just feel constant guilt. It wouldn't make any difference anyway, it's not like it would give him a taste of his own medicine. He's as much aware of me if I'm in the house as if I'm elsewhere.

He'll be very happy with our current arrangement that's he sustained for almost a week. No doubt he'll be thinking he's solved everything with his new so-called 'balance'. But obviously our problems are still here. I'd like to discuss the possibility of marriage counselling as I literally can't think of anything else we can try now, but I know he'll be reluctant as we've tried that before his diagnosis. In fact our counsellor was the one who suggested ASD (even though I'd suggested it years before!!!!) and since then he'll only speak to the autistic therapist who just 100% validates him. If I suggest it now while he's really 'trying' he'll fall further into his depression, he'll be all 'oh everything I do is crap, I have changed so much to please you but I'm never good enough, wah wah.' Then I'll be comforting and reassuring him and playing down my thoughts, sweeping it all away so he doesn't spiral. If I don't, then it'll be the total silent treatment for a few days til he just decides to forgive me but not acknowledge anything I've said at all and we go back to pretending. It's all about him, every last little thing in our lives, yet if I call something, even very minor, out he'll act as if everything he does is such a huge sacrifice and I'm the worst nagging bitch for expecting something from him. It does make you feel constantly unbalanced and even what should be a normal easy interaction can become a minefield.

There’s nothing to gain from following my suggestion because he has already ‘won’ me. Gill has not been won over, however. He still values Gill’s opinion because she is not part of him. Exactly this too, and sympathise with the feeing of disappearing @friendlygal79 @RainyMayDay

I’m not sure if it’s part of DPs ‘autism’ or not, but he’s very motivated by competition, being the best AND appearing the best. I really admire much of that, he’s very high up in his job and has his shit together so to speak, really good at one of his hobbies. It’s quite impressive, and I am less competitive but also quite good at my job so I was really attracted to that quality in him, his drive.

I just never thought he saw me as something to conquer and then not make any effort with. I really didn’t see it coming. Like you say above, DP is much more interested in going out the opinions of anyone he thinks has more than him in some way, and who do not think he’s amazing yet. He prefers big groups for that reason too, where he can show off his skills. He will then come back quite animated over what those people said and thought of him. And I will talk and he will cut me short because you can see he’s just bored!

It's like they give their all, we get sucked in, then there's suddenly a void. Where are we supposed to put all our feelings when that huge space opens up? Yes also to this @AspergersWife I feel often just quite needy and inferior. Because he doesn’t seem to need me at all, but I do. I’m really sorry it’s tough and he couldn’t share one evening this weekend - relationships need constant nurturing like plants they wither and die if not. And sorry the counseling wasn’t great - I wonder if it’s worth trying again? I also tried couple counseling, it was very tough as DP spent most of it saying that he was put upon and controlled, that he didn’t want to be with me. Which resulted in me feeling totally devastated and saying out loud then why on earth continue with counseling then? Why not just end the relationship right now? To which he would then say ‘well... possibly it’s not over, I just don’t know’ which left me hanging. He would never answer a direct question from the counsellor, he cloaked everything and insinuated it was pretty terrible. But when she asked him what, for example, he meant by me controlling him, he’d obfuscate and allude to jealously. However, amazingly by the end the counsellor had sussed on that DPs dynamic of refusing to really engage, to reject me but then sort of not... was the recurring cycle of our relationship. She called him out on it and asked him to get individual therapy as she said we would not survive otherwise.

And now looking back, I realise that in all those sessions of counseling I didn’t get to air what was important to me, and what I needed at all. As soon as I tried DP would just say that he didn’t really want to be with me. Which of course means that there can be no compromise.

DP is actually not that well at the moment and has to have some investigations at hospital. He’s massively anxious about it and I have a lot of sympathy. We are practically separated at this stage and I’m planning to leave, it will just take time. However it is striking that it is still me he leans on when he needs me. It’s a shame as it just makes me feel that we could have worked out as a family if only he’d shifted a bit to what I needed.

Again and again there are so many similarities.

DW is absolutely driven by the need for validation outside of our relationship but completely dismissive of my needs within our relationship.

@Daftasabroom Does your DW notice validation you give or is it only external validation that she seems to notice / care about?

I swear my DH does not put any importance on validation I give him...but if a colleague or acquaintance gives that validation it really seems to matter to him. He really cares what others think of him. Doesn’t seem to care what I think though. It’s like I’m going to be here anyway, whatever. He really cares about attracting others.

@RainyMayDay no she is very dismissive. She very rarely wears any jewelry of clothing I buy her, never plants the plants I buy her or just complains. I dread birthdays and Christmas.

Perfect example today: I've had a full on day starting at 8 finish at 6. She didn't get up till 9, has done 1 hour of work and 1 load of washing. She's asked if could shop and cook dinner because this evening she's running an errand for someone self isolating. I fully recognise that I am super-sensitised but it's an almost daily occurrence, and has had a major impact. She was two days late to a big family and friends reunion to celebrate our wedding because she wanted show work how dedicated she was.

@Daftasabroom I’ve had gifts rejected too. I’m sure if someone else had bought them for him, they would have had a more positive reception.

Attention from others definitely means more than attention from me. Perhaps it’s the newness of it. Every so often I feel he is almost having a crush on another person. Suddenly this person will be ‘amazing’ at their job or having a ‘really awful time’ (so he wants to help them) or they are super-talented at a particular thing or somehow very special. It’s like I become his mother at this point. Like I’m supposed to say ‘Yes dear. How lovely you have a new wonderful friend. You go and spend time with them. Don’t worry about me...’

@Daftasabroom the running errands is OK but if it’s all the time, it must feel a bit rubbish. Do you and her have any time together, like holidays or evenings out, or friend/family celebrations?
@RainyMayDay DP also needs and thrives on outside praise, although as long as it is from a few people he doesn’t need it from any one particular person, me included. His sense of self seems to come from being looked up by his work or other peers. He doesn’t like anything I buy him and he gives me a list of what he wants as presents. Although he does like to buy a gift for me and for the gift to be praised as ‘getting me just right’. Which I sometimes appreciate, until he went through a phrase of getting me gifts that were big hints for what he wanted me to do - either travel vouchers to ‘send me away from the house’ or fitness things as he’s big into looking/being the best and I wasn’t keeping up!

Every so often I feel he is almost having a crush on another person. I really feel for you @RainyMayDay it sounds a lot like you are being relegated to housekeeper. You are being compartmentalised. That must feel crushing. I’m sorry to reflect back a lot of my experiences, its’ just been so long since I’ve aired this and others have totally understood! DP definitely does get big crushes on people, female more but male too. It’s like he lives a bit of life through them for a while, and thrives on their success in an area he’d love to have excelled in.

He’s got two absolutely stunning female work friends, very stylish, he fawns over them and sends them texts, always remembers their birthday. He’s got a younger female friend who is an amazing gymnast, who goes to his gym and he suddenly started spouting all of her opinions on reducing plastics and vegetarianism. I found that quite hard to cope with as he’d come back brimming over about these things. He’d meet up in cafes and talk animatedly to her. If I suggested a cafe he’d sigh and read his phone the whole time. And two male friends who are work colleagues and one is the CEO of a major company. They’ve had house events and he’s always told me that ‘partners aren’t invited’.

@NeurotypicalLyPrivileged

Hi Otter71. Could you expand on the dementia/autism overlap? There is so much general misunderstanding about autism, particularly around autism without learning difficulties, but this sounds like you have discovered something that has been properly researched. Would be really interested to read more if possible!

I admit my interest in autism is that I have a diagnosis. So I don't often post on here but sometimes lurk. I don't have any wish to enhance misunderstanding of the condition. I am all too aware that autism is not a stereotype and fully acknowledges that there are as many combinations of autistic traits as autistic people. I am also a community nurse and regularly have to train the early signs of dementia. When I did the training last I was just amused and alarmed at the number of classic autism symptoms that are also down as early signs of dementia. That's all...

@Blossominspring2021 That’s so very hurtful. My DH goes through phases of fawning but usually the subject of the fawning does something ‘wrong’ eventually and it all comes to an abrupt end. Sometimes it will go from fawning to anger and hate because they do something that upsets him in some way (he’s incredibly sensitive). Doesn’t take much. Might be the way they say something or the way they look at him one day. I have never known anyone who can experience the extremes of feeling as he does about the same person. I see everyone as all shades of grey. He sees them as all good or all bad. Very little middle ground. Very difficult for anyone to occupy the ‘all good camp’ for long...

@Blossominspring2021 I try to avoid big family events with DW they always end in tears. She tends to get very over invested with very rigid preconceived ideas of how things are going to pan and when things go even a little off track she will either go into melt down or just as likely trigger someone else.

How's everybody doing? I'm going to read through and catch up, but just going to write an update here. I hope nobody minds me using this as a sort of diary! I've arranged to speak with a counsellor in a few weeks so I'm hoping to use these posts as a starting point for discussion with them.

My H has lasted less than a week of the new 'one night on, one night off' his game routine that he invented after my chat last week. Monday evening he did spend with me, but it was in a sort of sulky silence. No conversation, didn't want to talk or watch anything.

Last night he wanted to watch some football and then he played his game til the early hours. This evening when he arrived home from work the first thing he said was would I mind if he played on the game tonight as well.

I asked how he'd feel in future if I requested 2 nights in a row of his company and miss a night of gaming for me, and he was just quite blank and said he couldn't answer as that was hypothetical. I actually don't genuinely care about that right now, as I don't see any point in forcing him to spend time with me when he clearly doesn't want to, so I didn't bother objecting. What's the point? He can sit with me and sulk and I feel ignored, or sit somewhere else on his game and be happy and I feel ignored. Either way I'm still feeling shit.

I know that if I try to express this to him he'll say that he can never please me, he can't win, he's made changes for me, I'm never happy etc etc. Failing to see that the point is, his choice is always the game/football/friends whatever. His choice is never me. His priority is never me. When he is spending time with me he's not connecting and not engaging - he had his laptop with him one night, and another time we'd got a film to watch he was just messing on his phone. Probably on a chat with the gaming group. It obsesses him and I am no competition, so why even bother trying? I've read about the 'pick me dance' on here and I feel it's like that me versus this online world! Hopefully when I get to speak to the counsellor she can help me get some clarity as I'm so tired of feeling up and down like this.