Married to someone with Aspergers: support thread 5

[Bluebellforest1]

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Its not that autistic people lack empathy - though you are not the boss of autism theories MTMT either. From my own observations, many autistic people are empathic. Mostly its just the normal everyday stresses of dealing with life or perceived misunderstandings can 'get in the way' of the empathy, and suddenly its 'their way or the high way', the anger and meltdowns; can make it very difficult for their partners obviously, hence this thread.

@MTNT I didn’t say 100% autistic I said 100% has Aspergers and I didn’t mention an apparent lack of empathy on that post. That came later when you said over him not liking animals that I was unfair to try to position that as an autistic trait (which I wasn’t doing). You also said none of the traits i’d listed were specific to autism- this is when I gave a list and mentioned how he “seemed” to lack empathy

@TipiForMe

Yes exactly which is why I said “seems” to lack empathy as that is how it can come across. I know he very well could feel it but he doesn’t know how to express it so it seems as though he doesn’t.

Its not a lack of empathy its the ability to understand how someone else thinks differently than you. My dw is a kind sweet person but she can't understand other people's motives and neither can my son. Or how something might make them feel. They are both highly intelligent people with very strong emotions . In particular my ds finds quite a few things emotionally overwhelming. So no they're not deadened. But they have had to learn how other people feel rather than imagining it easily. Its particularly difficult for me as I experience others emotions acutely - so the opposite. I find the lack of emotion to some things happening to me very difficult. My DW is a nice person but very infuriating Unfortunately my DM is exactly the same so I lean on my DD a bit too much which is far from ideal and something I try to avoid. But she's the only person interested in my day. Her and the dog! It sounds like OPs husband has a strong need for control which is an anxiety thing. It is very tough to live with. My partner is controlling due to anxiety or need her certainty but in more subtle ways. I guess the power dynamic isn't so much not in mine and kids favour. We just crack on without her... but that's probably more to do with me. I appreciate in some homes one person controls access to money and car and so on. My DWs behaviour does impact the mood but not so much as we notice. In fact I've realised we actually don't do much all together any more.

@Aspiewife

I didn’t say 100% autistic I said 100% has Aspergers

And it one statement you have just made it clear you don’t understand Asperger’s/Autism.

If you have Asperger’s, then you are autistic. So by saying “100% Asperger’s” then you are saying “100% Autistic” too.

Just thinking about animals, my H likes animals but only if he doesn't have to do anything for them. So he 'loves' our cats because they just lie quietly upstairs. I feed them, book, take and pay for their injections, buy the foods. I look after them in every way.

He 'hates' our dog because she is noisy, lively, smelly - a real assault on his senses. Because she's been harder work and heavy and boisterous, I've needed him to do more than I've ever asked of him with the cats e.g. lift her up into my car when she refused to jump. He tells people he hates her. He tells me she's my dog and when we split he doesn't want to see her. I can easily see why others would think he loathes animals and assume that wrongly to be an autistic trait, as I'm sure a few of H's family do think after hearing him ranting on about our dog.

I should add, not that I'm saying the animals thing is an autistic trait. Just that H is allowing people around us to think it is. He blames all his negative traits on autism, despite the fact he has learned over the years what is appropriate or not. He finds it easier to be selfish and uses the diagnosis as an excuse to be rude to people or to avoid things he doesn't want to do, such as waking up and giving the kids breakfast. He managed to do it today though, so clearly he is capable.

I feel like he's trolling me this week with all the stuff he's been doing. He even took the kids to school one day, which I can count on 1 hand in the 6+ years I've been taking my DS to childcare. It's like he's showing me 'here's what you could have had.' I'm so, so angry today.

@MTNT

I’m not stupid I know it is exactly that, I was referring to the wording as you said I put “100% autistic” and I didn’t. Just like you said I listed it with that as having no empathy when I didn’t and when you said i’m sterotyping autisic people as not liking animals.

@AspergersWife

Yes mine is similar. I ask him why he hates dogs and he says he can’t stand them when they jump up all excited to greet you, sniff round you and what not. He couldn’t be in the same room around one. He also says he doesn’t know how people can eat around them. He says as long as they stay away from him he hasn’t got an issue with them (or any animal)

@AspergersWife I agree that my DH also struggles with an animal / anything really that demands something from him. When our cat became very ill he failed to recognise the signs. He was convinced she was fine when she clearly wasn’t. He couldn’t seem to cope with the fact that she needed urgent vet treatment which meant he / we needed to act quickly. I went ahead and sorted it out because he wouldn’t have. He was actually angry with me saying that he thought it was unnecessary. Anyone looking at the cat would have seen she was seriously unwell. For whatever reason it was like he couldn’t cope with what the situation demanded of him.

I’m still recovering. Still not had offer of cup of tea or anything! Again he can’t seem to cope with me needing something.

@AspergersWife ‘Here’s what you could have had’. My H has done that too. Too little, too late. It’s not sustainable.

@Pigeontown

Its not a lack of empathy its the ability to understand how someone else thinks differently than you.

I think this nails it. I also think there is a very different dynamic between spouses or very long-term partnerships, as is normal. With DW her underlying autism drives a low level or simmering anxiety, which in turn drives some very damaging habits and behaviours. She simply cannot understand why I need different things from our relationship to herself, and why not getting those things makes me unhappy.

@Daftasabroom
Exactly
I do understand that always 2nd guessing motives must be exhausting and anxiety inducing. My DW isn't British so originally I actually thought it was a cultural mismatch. And so did she. But she's still got these issues 20 years later. (E.g unable to not take things literally. Unable to even learn. Where as my ds has managed this a little). It was anxiety and paranoia that led to the diagnosis. Paranoia style feelings are not unusual. She won't be convinced she's got it wrong either. I'm apparently 'gaslighting'. I've really really questioned myself as I don't want to be the cause. Its been easier to see now our dd is a teen because she sees it too. But sad for her though to see this in some ways. But it doesn't annoy her like me as although she's a forgetful and absent mother she is loving. And she's never nasty. She's completely incapable of reprimanding them (which is another issue!).
We are breaking up because there have been nasty moments but I don't want to get to the hate stage.

My DW loves our pets. But she doesn't do anything practical like book vets buy food or even walk dog unless I ask. She never plays with the dog. But this is more to do with her inability to stop doing or thinking about work...she's the same with me!! I send the dog to a dog sitter when I'm out and she's working at home as she doesn't interact with him.

@Pigeontown Yes it’s the lack of practical involvement that is difficult. Practical stuff creates the mental load. Whether it’s booking appointments, holidays, dealing with purchases, workmen, the school…all of this stuff is what drags me down. He gets to experience the positive outcome but with little input. It can feel very unbalanced.

@RobinsReliant this is exactly it. H and I were just talking about him leaving, I asked if he had any regrets as he seems so outwardly fine about it. He said he does want our family life, but he wants it his way, which he discovered during lockdowns. The stereotypical Stepford Wives image (he used the word misogynistic) - wife at home, no money of her own, working away doing everything for the husband, house and kids with no life of her own. He would be happy as we are forever. Ideally he'd be living in the box room, gaming all night, seeing the kids for a couple of hours, and no interaction or connection with his wife, except for the odd shag, no demands on him but everything else on a plate for him whenever he wants to dip in.

Because I can no longer accept that dynamic he at least has done the decent thing and realised for my sanity we can't continue like that and is removing himself from being my burden. He still wants to have the fun bits (he's been talking about taking us all on holiday) but it will be my choice if he gets to do it or not.

@AspergersWife Says it all really. I’m pretty confident that with my DH it comes from a place of wanting to be in control of events. Control lies at the heart of it - it’s the way he copes with everyday life.

Yes I've had to fight very hard to get things taken off me i.e. delegating. When we moved house I did every single aspect and it nearly killed me including getting into schools parking the legal stuff etc. And then my DW had a bit of a mental breakdown because we were moving, and did even less. I was literally like you have to be f'ing joking. This was the lead up to the diagnosis. She still doesn't acknowledge that she did nothing. She has no concept.
There are a few other similar life events. To be honest I have tried so so hard to forgive and forget but I can't. Just like my own DM being emotionally unavailable (still is). I know its not her fault either but I can't get over it completely.

I have dipped my toe into this thread previously. I am the NT DH to an ASD DW.

We have had major issues over the years, and I can relate to huge numbers of examples given on this thread. However, we have managed to find a way through them and have now been married for 20 years. For me, as the NT partner, it has been a long process of learning how to relate to DW in a way that she understands, rather than in the way one would expect a NT partner to understand. I have had to consciously learn this and repeatedly go against my instincts.

In return, DW has done the same. Which is what ASD people have to do with all people every day.

I don't want to sound congratulatory. I spent years feeling worn out. We managed through sheer bloody effort and luck.

I will make a controversial comment but one that I think is true: I've lived in different places and British culture (and yes I am including Scots in this) is, I believe, particularly difficult for people with ASD as it is so indirect, and I think that makes it more difficult for NT people in relationships with people with ASD too.

This is what my DW says.

I just find it so strange that she can learn complex work things but can't learn some of the quirks of English conversation!

Agree @Pigeontown my H runs a business with all the intricacies that involves. Yet can't see why he should have to make the effort to 'learn' me and the kids the way he does with colleagues, associates and so on. And ultimately he's now plumped for the easy option, removing himself from the everyday life to just cherry picking the fun moments every other weekend.

Even though ultimately I instigated the separation, he still hasn't asked how I'm feeling. Hasn't a clue how broken I am. He can see I'm physically tired and done, but lacks the awareness to see that it's not as straightforward as decision made = I'm fine. He has apologised for failing so many times in his various promises, so he's aware on one level, but it's the lack of care about how this process is for me that is killing me. Like after all these years I still don't matter. I know I never really did, but would it kill him just to be polite and ask if I'm ok? It's all about him and toll this is taking on his MH with no regard for mine.

I could go on forever looking for reasons why our split is happening, trying to find logic, but it boils down to when I stood up for myself he hated it and shut me down. That's abusive, not autism. All I really wanted was a tiny bit of his time and attention, for him to stay off the game now and again and spend some grown up time in the evening with me to chill and relax once the kids were in bed, but even that was too much for him in the end. That to me is normal, and for so long he's told me it's abnormal, I demand too much. So for a long time I swept it under the rug and resigned myself to a lonely life being my 'normal'. Kidding myself if he was happy then I must be too.

Yesterday he was criticising me because we have nothing in common, as if that's my fault and not that he masked and pretended to like what I liked - all I am interested in is education, politics, literature, feminism, film, TV and current affairs apparently isn't that kind of standard? So because I don't want to listen to his lectures about volcanoes, earthquakes, his PS game, or whatever his current latest obsession is, I'm not worthy of spending time with. However he doesn't see that HE should have made the same effort to get on board with my interests the way I felt forced into his.

I was in a relationship with a man for 6 years, married for two who I now suspect to be on the Autistic spectrum/has Aspergers.

There is no way to put it kindly but I really wasted the best 6 years of my 30s with a man who sapped me of my energy, had no emotional empathy/understanding/ability to engage with others. Now looking back on the whole situation, I cannot believe I managed to stay for so long. It was a very dysfunctional relationship. Thankfully, other than being married, we didn't manage to set up any kind of a normal life together (no mortgage/children). It was an amicable split as even he realised he couldn't carry on the way we were.

Once I'd left and slowly built my life up again, I started to see how different he was to other men (when I ventured in to OLD etc). I subsequently had a situanship with someone for 2 years and even though that had its own issues, it was nothing like my 6 year relationship of hell.

Had I remained in that relationship, I certainly would have ended up childless as all he was committed to were his own selfish projects (which of course he frequently bailed out on ). At least with me gone, he didn't have anyone else to blame.

I'm never getting in to anything similar again - I'm sorry if that's sounds really unaccommodating but I'm done with this particular issue in a relationship.

I'm so sorry to hear this. Its just been really tough for you both and others. And you aren't going mad but people not in this situation won't understand.
I take comfort from the fact that its not personal or an affair. Also my partner is a woman so she has been socialised as such and so is a lot better at some things.
However once I realised i was not imagining things or being unreasonable it became clearer. My friends aren't sympathetic as they are married to men and they can't compare properly. They don't ask or understand anyway.
Sure we still argue but now that I'm not expecting any intimacy or extra care its a lot better.. weirdly she's not even really asked or mentioned it. So the Autism is clearer to me too. Being in a lockdown showed me that our distance wasn't because she worked long hours and wasn't around much. She's just like it all the time. And I got so angry when weekend came and she was still the same. I now realise she's always been like this. Other people could see it and I couldn't. I've noticed my whole life I've been surrounded by similar people because my dm is very strongly and most definitely autistic.
Its hard to know what you want when you are younger. And we had very good times when we didn't have kids as it was carefree.
So we just all need to find a way to transition happily to the next stage.
She keeps saying that I must want someone else . But honestly not now. I'm just absolutely shattered from caring for 2 kids one with SEN and 4 pets.. and then her the extra child. She doesn't understand that doing the dishwasher every morning, obsessing over the cleanliness of the counters or taking bins out (so I've trained her over lockdown to do about 30% of house tasks... but the kids begged me to not let her shop again and we don't let her cook often either!) doesn't mean she is an equal partner. So I think life will be easier. I hope I'm not wrong. It will certainly be poorer! And I worry about her.

@Pigeontown I think you’re right. It’s difficult for others to relate to having a partner with ASD anyway but a same sex partner with ASD makes it even more difficult for your friends to relate to. That’s really isolating.

I think all you can do is put yourself and your DC first. You’re exhausted. You need time out. Your DW will survive. Just as my DH would. Without the marriage to navigate, things will be a whole lot easier for them as they won’t have a mirror being held up to them or someone else’s thoughts to consider.

You look after you. I understand that exhaustion. I have felt in the past that I’m my DH’s carer. I’m not going to be a carer any more though. It’s wearing and draining and you get no thanks…quite the opposite.

@RobinsReliant thank you.