Married to someone with Aspergers: support thread 5

[Bluebellforest1]

New thread

@DaughterofASCdad I’m sorry for the pain you have about your lack of relationship with your father. I don’t know if thinking he has ASC will help though, but that is just my personal perspective. With or without a diagnosis (and he won’t get one now I presume), his nature doesn’t seem to be directed at you, it’s how he is with everyone. And that’s all a diagnosis would tell you, that person has differences in interacting. And your father has big differences in how he communicates with you, and how you’d like him to communicate with you.

Do you feel that he loves you? Your mothers says he does. You say he likes to communicate his care and love through doing practical things? Could you focus on that do you think?

You lack a father you can have a conversation with, and who asks how you are. If he likes to do practical things, and you need some practical things, then could you get him to care for you through these? Have him around the home doing things for you sometimes?

It is very hard if you feel that he is distant however that isn’t going to change. The turning off the radio etc sounds very strongly like he has hearing or auditory processing difficulties - has he had his hearing checked? It can make being in crowds extremely difficult.

If it makes it any easier, I have a very distant father also who I now realise doesn’t really care that much for me. He thinks he does, he thinks he’s been a great father, which is the trouble, he hasn’t. He doesn’t do anything for me, practical or otherwise, ever, just talks about himself. So I do sympathise. I made the decision to minimise contact, and he doesn’t even notice because he only sees me as a once a year contact duty anyway!

@DaughterofASCdad I can empathise so much with this, pretty sure my Dad has ASD, he has never ever asked me how I am. I’ve accepted that’s just the way our relationship is.

Unfortunately it seams this is the template I have now used for partners.

@DaughterofASCdad, my pleasure. I know the pain. It will get better if you change your perspective and keep working on that, rather than working on him, as you know that’s akin to banging your head against a brick wall, rather you manage and navigate around the wall.

Funnily enough, when I stopped trying to engage with my mother the way I wanted to be engaged with (I think she found that stressful), she seemed to relax a lot more around me. I think she felt being accepted was very valuable to her, she then ramped up the doing things for me and that’s how I could tell she was pleased. Her love language (the five languages of love book) is acts of service.

It was like learning to speak a foreign language that my mother prefers to speak! So I also ramped up my acts of service for her. Quite a revelation.

You will figure this out, and the painful emotions will decrease.

Quick update, we had our first counselling session yesterday and I'm not really sure what to think. The counsellor wanted to start by us remembering how we met and I think it was to show us that we once had warm feelings and happiness maybe? But actually all it did was remind me of how hopeful I was back then and how my optimism has been totally crushed since then. He was a different person then to how he is now. I have changed too of course, people do, but I feel I've made changes to adapt to having children and making a good life for our family whereas his changes (particularly since his diagnosis) have been all for him and to make his life easier for him, while we all live on the peripheral.

H did his usual monologue thing during the session, and showed the typical 'me me me' attitude I've come to expect. So when she asked me to tell him what first attracted me to him, I found it difficult to actually remember and whilst pausing for thought he then steamrollered the conversation and lectured us all about himself. He actually clicked and realised what he was doing and apologised for disregarding what I was trying to say, but actually it was quite a good example of how any conversation beyond surface chit-chat goes for us. I think it gave her a good idea of our cycle whenever I try to be heard. He made it about him, then lost it at himself, got overly mad, I was unable to speak as scared of his anger, so had to stifle my thoughts and emotions, then give him attention and smooth things over.

After the session H seemed very frustrated and said he didn't think she understood how his brain worked. It's unfortunate as she did come recommended as someone who had experience with ASD. She is very focussed on emotions which for someone with Aspergers I guess is like trying to ask them to speak fluently in another language. We've committed to at least 2 more sessions but I just feel like it's simply kicking the can down the road at this point.

We briefly talked again about how it would be if we separated. H said something about still coming round to put the kids to bed and I'm like 'huh?' I really don't think he's understanding what a separation means. To me it's a clear break, not a blurry line. To my mind he could potentially have the kids EOW and maybe 1 night per week, IF he can show he can look after them properly, but as far as I'm concerned he's not 'popping in' whenever he feels like it. I said no and that a split is a split and he got very quiet. I'm not sure if he's in denial or just doesn't understand what splitting up actually is.

@AspergersWife that sounds an interesting session. It sounded like he hogged the energy of the session, through his monologue, then his feelings about the counselor. I’m surprised she didn’t reflect back to him that he’d interrupted. My DH also hogged all counseling sessions but did get some insight, briefly. Ultimately he didn’t take this on board as the counselors view was immaterial to him once it ended.

Today my ASD ex has no idea why I should be gutted that today, my ds' birthday is not a good day for ds to tell me that he identifies as non binary and wants to be known by a different name. I am devaststed. Ex and ASD dd have no comprehension. Of all the days in the year. 😪😪😪😪😪😪😪😪😪😪

@Blossominspring2021 Thanks so much for your message. Sorry for my delay been on my feet at work all day!

I’m so sorry you also have a distant father. I often wonder too if he would notice or mind if I never contacted him. He never rings me for a chat, ever. If I FaceTime mum, he might say hi for a few mins, but will wander off pretty quickly. A bit like that old BT advert ‘Shall I get your mum?’ (but with less warmth in the voice!) 😊

You've articulated it really well - I have a dad who ‘communicates differently’. He does treat everyone the same it’s true (although funnily enough - he seems much more comfortable addressing my dog! 😊). I guess it’s painful as I’m his child (albeit a grown up one), and the impact of your parent treating you / speaking to you in this way makes it seem especially hard. I think that’s what neither my mum nor my husband can understand, as their self-esteem wasn’t built by or shaped by the way he is, whereas mine has been shaped by it since I was a small child.

You’re so right though that I need to try to focus on the practical things. I think he loves me, or at least for my sanity I tell myself he does, but it’s a bit like the Prince Charles whatever love means question..... He doesn’t know much about me, doesn’t seem to have an interest in finding out, and yet he’ll help as much as he can in the garden. I guess I have to hold onto that, like you say.

@colouringindoors that is a big announcement on someone’s birthday. It’s a lot when it sounds like you are juggling quite a bit already.

@Sleepplease1111 I'm sorry you too have been through this. I know exactly what you mean about repeating the same relationship with partners.

I spent several years with someone in my early 30s who was emotionally unavailable. He wouldn't give much emotionally and yet stuck around - keeping us together, but at arms length. I finally got the courage to leave him when I read up on attachment issues, and realised that someone keeping me at arms length was what I 'knew' from my childhood. I was probably trying to fix the lack of acceptance I felt from dad - by getting someone similarly detached to love me, I would finally heal. We are programmed to try and 'fix' it, but it just leads to more and more heartache.

It was a real relief when I broke free, and happily, my husband now is much more emotionally giving and nothing like the emotional desert of the boyfriend I had before him. I hope you managed to break the pattern too - it's horrible when you're stuck in it.

Goodness @colouringindoors that is a lot. I'm so sorry you are having to deal with everybody, it sounds like you are being pulled in so many directions.

@WhatDreamsAreMade Thanks again for this great advice. You are spot on - like @Blossominspring2021 also said, he does 'do' acts of service (seemingly pretty willingly) and I should at least hold on to that.

Funnily enough, I did read the Five Love Languages once (in a bid to try and understand the previous emotionally unavailable boyfriend I mentioned in my last post), and you're completely right. Trying to get him to communicate in the language I 'speak' is just a recipe for heartache (it feels exactly like you say - like banging your head against a brick wall).

It's really interesting because I probably never thought that not only should I let go of hoping he'll speak my language, but maybe I could try speaking his too.

I guess I do this a bit, sub-consciously. I spend a lot of time making him cups of tea for instance (sounds pretty insignificant I know, but it's a sort of way to show I 'care'). Having in depth conversations is never going to happen, so it's my way to try to connect. (Ironically - he's pretty rubbish at offering to make cups of tea for others - maybe it just doesn't register for him as a 'nice thing to do').

It makes me sad that on our respective death beds we won't have happy times of us talking or having good conversations or emotionally connecting. But - as you say, to wish things were different is like banging your head against a brick wall. Acceptance must be easier than railing against it.

Thanks so much for sharing your experience with your mum - it's given me a lot of food for thought.

Sorry @AspergersWife and @colouringindoors I feel like I'm talking over your discussions, I'm new to this group so apologies for gatecrashing. It sounds like you've both got a huge amount on and @colouringindoors sorry to hear about that happening on a bday, it sounds a lot to take in. I hope you've got some support today.

thank you x. I'm sorry I can't engage with everyone's posts, but I really appreciate your kindness. After nearly 10 years of trauma with ASD ex (near suicide, pschotic break) getting dd ASD diagnosis and ds with ptsd and fnd who I have been the parent to get the help he needs, I feel utterly devastated tonight.

@colouringindoors your child chose their birthday as this is a big thing for them. I’m in the same situation, but if you join fb groups for LGBTQ’+ parents, it does gradually start making sense.

I think that our asc children have such totally logical, literal brains that they immediately see past the ‘girl/boy’ stereotypes, they don’t see why, rationally, the clothes you wear should have a gender.

(WRT to the clothes, my straight nt practical teenage daughter has been wearing her brother’s hand me downs for her whole life, and no one has commented. Imagine if the roles were reversed, and my straight, nt son wore his sister’s hand me downs..)

I have always wondered why asc kids are more likely to identify as lgbtq. I read recently that it was because if they don’t see the logic in social ‘norms’, then they won’t bother with them. Skirts are feminine? Where is the logic in that? Boys have to be strong and masculine. Why? Etc.

@Majortominor yes I do see what you mean, not having to take on social norms can be quite freeing. I am very divided about my DS, his future in that respect. The whole trans/non-binary and autism link is something that does concern me I must admit. I think you are right some of it is not having set views of social gender, but I think part of it is not having a grounded identity either which can make kids with autism vulnerable to ‘being told’ what their identity is. I’m not sure any ‘label’ is helpful to many.

My DS has always been quite fluid really, he will play with girl and boy toys. Likes pink and likes blue. Is active, physical but also hugely affectionate. Until he got to school he just explored this in his own way. Since school he’s been made to feel by other kids that ‘boys wear this and do this’ and has a changed a bit, which makes me a bit sad. If he gets to secondary and is told that because he likes boys and girls things he must be ‘non-binary’ or whatever will also make me sad. He’s just him. And once he’s told he ‘is’ something he will feel that he has to stick to it, whereas I feel that he can be anything he likes and is happier when people don’t make a fuss.

I think my Dh is on the spectrum. He has two sons from a previous marriage that are both diagnosed.

My not so Dh has cheated and applied his absurd logic to it.

Is cheating comment with these men?

@JamieFrasersAuntie I think you may be picked up for asking about generalising - as in being autistic doesn’t necessarily mean cheating or otherwise. We can only talk about our experiences, which are all our views. My DH cannot defend himself here so everyone only has my word for it! As is the case for all mumsnet.

However I am really sorry that you’ve been cheated on. I haven’t admitted it here yet but if it helps, my DH also cheated. He did not admit this for a long time, as he had several women friends and was exceptionally evasive about it, and very defensive. He did, however, apply his logic to it like yours. Which has hurt me immensely. He invented reasons such as ‘it was only texting’ or ‘we weren’t really together at that point anyway’ or ‘you were controlling and this is my life’ whilst we were, in fact, married and me with the baby. He then swung all over the place for a bit, when caught admitted he was being awful, and then made out the relationship was so suffocating that just ‘talking’ to women was his only release.

I don’t think he cheated previously, with his other relationships. He can sometimes be, rarely, but amazingly honest. At one such honest time he admitted that being able to meet women on social media made it very easy for him, as he finds actual conversation quite difficult.

jamie and blossom I'm sorry to hear about the cheating.

fwiw my ex did not cheat, I'm pretty sure, though there was an extreme betrayal in another way. Another friend with an autistic husband is also 100% sure he doesn't cheat (one of the success stories that one, it's not easy but he loves her a great deal and consciously tries to adapt his behaviour to her needs, and she adapts hers to his, and it works. He got a lot of help in his teens though and acknowledges his difference to NT people. He manages quite well to walk the line between being himself and compromising to be able to build bridges with NT people)

Thank you both, sorry this happened to you too Blossom.

My H exploited a tragic situation so he could cheat. At the time I wondered if he was a psychopath it was so cold.

My H is like many here, he has his own room that he disappears into and he responds to reasonable complaints by raging and threatening divorce. We are now unhappy housemates and it's clear he only tolerates us.

Like others I feel trapped by finances, children and unfortunately poor health.

@JamieFrasersAuntie that sounds really awful. Is there a long term plan that you can leave at some point? We are still living together however I have a firm plan, all my family knows and so does DH, solicitors have been spoken to etc. It’s helped to make it more respectful at home and therefore bearable for a temporary period.

@JamieFrasersAuntie I used to get divorce threats on a weekly basis, once because I had the temerity to consider buying a copper coloured Volvo. DW doesn't like Volvo's and doesn't like brown, the double whammy was all too much.

The last time she threatened divorce I told her that she had better be prepared to go through with it, because I would be at a solicitors the next day. She hasn't mentioned it since, probably a couple of years.

I used to get the 'leaving you if X Y or Z' threats too until I made it clear that the next time he said it, it would be over. And now it's me seriously discussing the option of leaving. But I am deadly serious, whereas I'm not sure he was - he seemed to enjoy the drama and liked keeping me on my toes.

Back in the early days we had a lot of fun, but sometimes I'd see a darker side. Sometimes it was like anything I said would be taken wrong on purpose, it could be tiny, but it all had to be mulled over while he twisted everything round in his mind (making me the villain) and I'd be waiting with baited breath to see what the judgement was...would he stay with me? Looking back, I wonder - why did I care? Why did I keep on playing the game? Why was I so desperate for his approval.

I recall one time he'd delayed us for a flight abroad because of something to do with his gran's cat, he hadn't seen her eat the food that morning or something fairly trivial like that. I'd said 'but it's a cat' meaning, she'll eat the food when she's ready as cats are so independent, plus it's his gran's cat and she wasn't going away, we were - so what's the issue? Well he flipped. According to him he had to decide if he could tolerate someone who thought so little of animals as to be dismissive of it, apparently I was cruel to animals, didn't care if the cat starved to death, if his gran was upset, I'm the most awful person in the world, etc etc. He delayed us further because of this and was apparently on the verge of deciding if to still travel to our holiday or not. At the time I was baffled, begging forgiveness, no clue how on earth i'd ended up in this terrible row that was jeopardising our holiday. How on earth could he think those things of me? I loved his gran and all her pets. That's one of the first moments I recall feeling my sense of self totally shaken, there'd been other glimmers and odd moments but that was one that sticks out to me. Was I really all these terrible things he saw me as? I hadn't meant to say such a cruel thing, I was sure I hadn't been cruel about the cat...but did I? Was I remembering correctly?

Lucky me, he decided he could put up with my disgusting animal cruelty and came on the holiday. But he wouldn't speak to me for the first day or so. I felt like I was on edge the whole time and didn't know what to say or do. I wish I could go back to that moment, unpack the suitcase and say 'ok bye then'.

He did this quite regularly, booked me a city break for my birthday, then the day before we ended up in a huge row and he had to 'think things over'. I've never actually noticed the pattern til typing this, that's interesting. Maybe he was feeling stressed and looking for an 'out'? Or maybe sensed my attention/excitement was elsewhere and wanted to claim it back? I would have to 'make it up to him' and spend the trip feeling anxious and that I had to be on my best behaviour. He has ruined Paris, Ibiza, Dublin and Edinburgh for me this way and I felt sick when a friend recently suggested one of those places but wasn't sure why - now I know! Probably the only trip he hasn't tainted was our honeymoon, so at least I have some nice memories of that.

@AspergersWife that is a completely out of proportion reaction in your DH, from a simple comment that you made. That's one of the first moments I recall feeling my sense of self totally shaken that sounds pretty traumatic on you. Your DH had no sense that going on holiday is quite stressful with lots of things to think about, and that cooperating with another person is about being a team. Being a team is judging the situation right, and also taking on the load too. It is very interesting that it was just before you going away and is a pattern, like he is planting a grenade under these occasions so that they blow up.

My DH did similar to me, there was a pattern but I didn’t’ know it at the time. He would do it whenever I planned nice events, holidays or evenings out. He would do it if he sensed that I was ‘letting down his image’ in any way (if for example I dressed too casually in front of his work colleagues). He would also do it when we had rare times on our own without children, work or family. Those were the worst times. I’d really look forward to time with just him, and every single time he’d instigate an argument whereby he was ‘wanting to do his own thing’ but for some reason he was oppressed by me wanting to only have him to myself. So course we never had time together and he would usually go out by himself instead leaving me totally, like you said, shaken about what the hell had happened!

Another time that really sticks out in my mind. We had a holiday when I was pregnant, in a lovely city. Nothing we quite right for him and the food was always too weird (it was only Italy), but that’s OK. I could cope with that. Always had a feeling that he was just putting up with it.

However sometimes as a couple you need ‘moments’ don’t you, of feeling connected and loved? I nearly had one such moment. We were having dinner in a courtyard. It was so nice, balmy evening, beautiful place. I started to say how lovely it was to be on holiday with him, and that I was looking forward to the baby. But he cut me short, saying that he was just really missing his son (he had a son from a previous relationship) and how hard it was for him to be without him.

Talk about cutting me dead!

And we’d only been away three days, and he saw his son once a week. I had a son too about the same age, who I had full-time. Sigh...

@AspergersWife God, he sounds just like my ex. He also used to manufacture huge rows before trips and say he wasn't going to come. At the time I blamed myself but now I see that it was just a control thing. I barely even remember what one row was about...something ridiculous and tiny that most people would have got past. He said he wasn't going to go on the holiday and I'd have to go alone. I managed to persuade him to come with me but then of course, the entire time he was horrible and said 'I told you I didn't want to come', which of course left me begging and pleading and being on my very best behaviour so as not to aggravate him further. We had one nice day and a lovely evening where we were getting along really well and then...boom....another huge argument out of nowhere. It's like he had to make me feel constantly on edge and unbalanced. He didn't want me to feel safe and secure and loved. So toxic.

Yes @Rozziie that is exactly it. Toxic. You are describing my feeling exactly.

I almost wish I could rewind a few months when I was still normalising everything in our miserable life and I was just bumbling along waiting for lockdown to ease, but it's like the scales have dropped from my eyes and I can't go back to unseeing it now.

I do think I'm resolved on splitting, but my head goes back and forth wondering if it's the best thing. I feel selfish, the kids will be gutted and maybe traumatised. But I will be sane and steady, rather than constantly feeling off balance and gaslighted. I keep thinking maybe if I just do this, that, the other to satisfy my needs e.g trips away with friends, in time get a new job, perhaps flirt a little online, go to the cinema alone, find a theatre buddy - will I feel fulfilled enough? Can I be ok with this for another what, 40 years?

He's acting like an OAP now at not quite 40, I can't imagine the hard work he'll be at 80. I can't imagine him able to offer me support through menopause, my DM's pre-dementia progressing, our children's milestones and tricky teenage years. It will always, always be about him making himself the priority and us orbiting around him to make him comfortable. At what cost?

I know what you mean @Blossominspring2021 about almost having those moments. Your words really resonate. They are so near, and yet so far out of reach. It's that hope, and the constant 'if I just did X or said Z then things would be great.' I look forward to time with him, only for it to blow up in my face if he creates a row, or else it'll be disappointing if he's silent/moody. If someone asked me when I last felt loved or supported by my partner I genuinely couldn't answer as it's been so long.