Married to someone with Aspergers: support thread 5

[Bluebellforest1]

New thread

@Rozziie unbalanced is exactly it. I’ve felt insecure, unloved and unbalanced for most of my marriage. Exactly the opposite to how I felt until it was too late. Sorry you had to go through that. @AspergersWife I know we can think about why, or how to try and make it work, or when to leave. But the effects on us for being with someone who is giving with one hand, taking with the other, is profound. I’m not sure how to help heal that damage.

I know that I look back, particularly when I was pregnant, and our child was young, with extreme sadness. Those times, although hard should have had moments of joy where I felt like a family with DH, where I felt like I had some security, someone there for me and for DS. We never had any of those moments. Not when we went for the baby scans (DH just looked bored), not when the baby was born (he still felt kind of distant), not when I had the diagnosis of autism (DH denied it for months) and not even small things like go to the park together with DS and feel like he actually wanted to be there. Honestly I wish I’d been with someone else and had children with someone who wanted to be there.

I do feel for you @AspergersWife it is totally natural to wonder whether leaving is the right thing. It may well take a while to feel certain enough to go. I know I took a long time. I did leave when I found out he’d cheated, stayed with family with DS for several months and in that time DH had a ‘revelation’ and realised what a fool he’d been etc. He became utterly attentive again, very eloquent about his feelings for me, and he did become a good husband for a few years after. However it just reverted.

Just to say the children know more than we think, I believe. I have an older son and he has always had the measure of DH. DS is profoundly delayed developmentally, and only just acquiring language, however even he, without words, seems to know that his security is not in his father. He is very attached to me, and defers to me for almost everything. DH, like your husband, has left before and I think kids know that one parent is ‘in’ the family, and the other only ‘dips’ in and out when they feel like it. They just know. It must be a survival instinct, about which parent can be relied upon, which parent is attending to them, and which parent to trust.

@Blossominspring2021 just popping back in again to say as a child of a dad with an ASC insecure, unloved and unbalanced is exactly how I felt.

So @AspergersWife don't feel guilty and do think about the benefits to your children that might occur when they don't have a constant presence who is 'there', but not there. (I read further below someone mentioning men who all have a room to go. Dad has a room! We'll come to visit at Christmas or some family event, and after about 20 minutes he's had enough of 'doing family' and as sure as eggs is eggs, he'll retreat back to his room. You can almost set a timer to how much family time he can tolerate. As a child, it doesn't make you feel that good.)

It sounds mean to him, but I sometimes wonder if it would have been better and my self-esteem more robust had I grown up in a single parent family. Because then I would have got on with my life without having to negotiate this presence who I always felt rejected by. I feel a bit guilty for writing that because, as below, he has tried to show his care in his 'doing things' for us, but no talking or emotional care, and I really wish I had that instead.

I was just in the kitchen with him this morning. Mum had gone next door and to avoid the usual uncomfortable silence, I started to do the washing up.

I spent years bearing the burden of keeping conversation going, and recently in the last few years decided I'm just not going to do that anymore, and if he wants to sit in silence, I'm not going to care, or do all the work of trying to think of something to say.

Bear in mind we haven't seen each other in 9 months, you'd think he might manage to muster up one or two questions to ask about me or my life. Nope. Eventually he broke the silence and managed to ask one question - about my husband. I just sighed inwardly. I can't force him to take an interest in me.

But with regards your children @AspergersWife - I've only read recent posts on this thread so I'm sorry I don't know your full story, but definitely consider the positives of possibly taking them away from an environment where they might always end up feeling rejected. Just my two cents!

@AspergersWife I really feel for you. It's such a hard decision. I dont know if Id have left my ex if it wasn't for his Bipolar on top of the Aspergers. Although I'd say the aspergers has been more harmful to me over the 25 years. The traumatic mental health crises and abuse I got when he was sectioned made the decision much simpler. Indeed it was initiated by him when last sectioned - he told me our marriage was over. I was both devastated and relieved. The conflicting enotions make it very hard to deal with. I have ptsd from his Bipolar crises and a damaged sense of self and worth from his aspergers.

Because then I would have got on with my life without having to negotiate this presence who I always felt rejected by. I’m so sorry @DaughterofASCdad that is such a poignant sentence. I also always had the feeling that I didn’t quite measure up to DH when with him. Again many awkward silences which did feel like a clear signal of ‘you aren’t worth bothering to talk to’. I think for me it was exascerbated by DH talking animatedly to others he wanted to impress.

@colouringindoors wow you’ve been through the mill. Bipolar is often an extremely hard condition to live with as a partner, and no support.

@Blossominspring2021 @DaughterofASCdad

You used the word presence. I feel like no matter what I do wherever I am I have a DW ghost telling me "don't do that, don't buy that, why did you do X, or y, or z." It's very very weird and very very debilitating. She has got so far into my psyche I can't get away from her.

Once again, just the same with my DW @Daftasabroom. Decorating couldn't be done by anyone except an expensive tradesperson because .. the house would fall down or something. Or get in a plumber to unblock the sink otherwise the sink could explode. Odd stuff like that (OK, I'm exaggerating slightly). Kids rooms couldn't ever be decluttered because it would just be disaster.

I listened to it for far too long. What made me stop was just my sense of frustration at bring unable to get shit done overcoming it. And, round about them, some connection in my brain linking 'something my DW says' to 'generally worth listening to' broke.

The price I paid is that I just find it hard to take my DW's views seriously now - a problem because she is actually right a lot of the time, but weeding out the useful from the crap requires more energy than I have.

I will add though that my DW's feelings of impending disaster are entirely real, and must be unpleasant for her to live with. So I do try to reassure her. A lot of the time, the best way is just to get on with that thing and then she can see it's actually OK.

I do admit that I have similar to your DW @TomPinch - which funnily enough is the opposite to DH who would tackle any household job if it saved money - but on the other hand spent 3 years choosing a sofa. I do have fairly high anxiety about things going wrong, and have to rein it in, however in a way I’m often right as getting a real plumber saves in the long run! However I’d unblock a sink myself.

I kind of have the opposite with H - he will not get anything done himself, if someone wants £££ to do it he'll pay over the odds to avoid doing anything...but then moan about the cost!!

Thank you all for your perspectives and @DaughterofASCdad you made some very interesting points. Certainly gives me food for thought where my children are concerned.

I went to visit a friend this weekend and H said he missed me when I got back, he never expresses anything like that. He's also spoken to his sister who I chatted with last weekend and I think it's really kicked him into gear. He was expecting sympathy from her and instead got the impression she felt I deserved more than he was able to give and she wanted him to leave me alone so I could make a fresh start. It seems to me that when I discussed splitting he didn't take it too seriously, but when she says it he's really started believing it.

Last night he approached me to talk - which he never does - and I expressed that I was happy to see how things go for a few more weeks now that he's settled on 3 nights of gaming per week. I still feel timetabled in like a duty, but I accept it's a hobby/interest for him which is fine as long as he's putting in some effort with the kids and with me e.g a meal out or cinema now that we can go out again. If he can find a balance between the online world and stepping back into the real world I will feel happier with that.

Anyway he completely ignored all that and I went off to check on the kids, when I came back he told me he's deleted the woman friend off his game and also deleted the gaming apps so he won't get the constant notifications about when the team are playing. One extreme to the other as usual. Also apparently he will be playing on his own if he does play, and not with the online group of friends. I don't think this is necessarily a good plan, though I appreciate he wants to try. He said he's worried he's already lost me but he'll do what it takes to show me he's working to keep the marriage together.

I think his friends are a good thing and it's healthy to have friends with a shared interest, but in his opinion he doesn't know how to limit himself so best to remove the temptation all together. I think he'll resent me for it further down the line and a new obsession will just creep in. I expressed that I think it's too extreme to just cut out his main interest, but he said on his opinion he'd rather try this version of extreme instead of losing his whole family. So he's now gone into damage limitation and 'fix it' mode - this morning he's all over me, acting like the wonderful father and doting husband. I assume it won't last long, I'll play along for now but I think keep making my own plans.

Can I join in?
I won't lie reading some of your stories did make me chuckle - maybe because that's the coping method I'm using otherwise I'll go insane.

I found out that DH has aspergers last year - we broke up and I asked him to leave the house. He wouldn't. Anyway, a week later I had to call the police to get him to leave. As I explained DHs behaviour to the officer - he said that sounds like ASPERGERS - I would advisd you to look in it. Anyway, that was my turning point because it explained EVERYTHING. We did live apart for a few weeks - he changed his fb pik to one from years ago where he literally looked so sad (I'm not exagerating) - What would come to your mind to even do that. Wow lol

He has little/no social skills - if anyone comes over he'll literally sit there with a blank face without saying a word - making me and the guests feel so so awkward! If he speaks, it'll either be really loud or when he wants to give his opinion - and he doesn't give up until EVERYONE agrees.

I remember a time we came home from a wedding and he started listing people who walked right past him and didn't say hello. I replied - well if anyone speaks to you - fine, if not leave them to it. This led to a meltdown - he refused to eat with us for the next few days, refused to speak to me and said we were better of getting a divorce because 'I'm too interested in other people'.

I honestly feel like I'm banging my head against a wall. He over reacts on the smallest of things. He has a meltdown on things I can't even understand.
He manages to turn ANY situation around - where I'm ALWAYS to blame. It's crazy.

I'm glad I'v found this group.

Thanks for sharing your story @LoveYorkshire. It sounds like things have been very tough.

How did your (D)H get his diagnosis - sounds like it was pretty quick after the police suggested you look into it? I presume you went private as know adult waiting lists can be years long. Any tips gratefully
Received!

@NeurotypicallyPrivileged

We haven't got a professional diagnosis as of yet - but DH ticks every box - every video every site re aspergers describes DH. He doesn't want to talk about aspergers or anything related (a whole new issue). However, he has acknowledged some of his behaviours that impact me and has made changes. I'v accepted that alot of his behaviour can be managed but not changed.

Things are better than before - maybe because I can now understand him better than I did before. For example - he overreacts to small things - I used to tell him to just STOP, life is too short, let things go. But now I understand that it's not intentional or in his control. He's not purposly doing it to make life difficult.

Recently, I'v started doing things on my own, without asking him to join. I'm trying to lose the expectations and find being happy alone. I'm slowly learning to emotionally detach from alot of the stuff he says so it doesn't impact me as much!
I consciously choose which battles are worth fighting - and which is to leave.

I'v accepted the reality that the person he was at the start of my relationship - wasn't actually him - it was fake. This is the real DH - and I made the decision to stick by him because despite the problems, he has a long list of positive things about him.
He's thoughtful, he's intelligent, he's a brilliant dad, he loves deeply, he tries to keep us happy - and that is the main thing I guess.

@AspergersWife

This is my DH - one extreme to the other. He will then have a logical explanation as to how this is the right thing to do.
I completely understand your point re 'fix it mode' - but it nevers works. It's a vicious cycle!
DH was playing a game last year - at times he would come back from work and play for 6-7 hours non-stop everyday! This obviously created problems because we've got 3 under 5s and I work too!
That became his special interest - over his family/commitments - it was crazy!

@LoveYorkshire I was sort of similar to you before lockdown - generally accepted who he was, accepted his various obsessions, decided to stay, had my own interests and quite separate lives. But then during lockdown he became even more introverted and obsessed with the gaming on top of his other special interests. I had literally nothing else other than him, kids and being in the house/garden. I realised I needed him as my partner to provide some kind of companionship. I had previously filled my life with other forms of connection, but when those other outlets were removed my reality felt very stark.

@LoveYorkshire

I think even if he “ticks all the boxes” a professional diagnosis is really important. There is so much misinformation about autism and in particular Asperger’s that I think often people can be unfairly judged to have Asperger’s because they are “assholes” (I’ve seen a YouTube video where they are referred to as Aspholes!!)

I do understand that support in any abusive or dysfunctional relationship is important so I’m not at all trying to minimise what you’re going through, and I have no idea if your DH has Asperger’s or not, but I think a policeman screaming “Asperger’s” at you is very unprofessional.

I do know that ND/NT relationships can be extraordinarily difficult so I hope
You find peace. I’m getting there......

@AspergersWife

I agree. My DH was exactly the same - lockdown was what an ideal situation looks like for him - no guests, he doesn't have to see anyone to socialise/make small chat with, he's got more than enough time for his obsessions, he can happily live in his bubble with no judgement from anyone.

I feel like you've gone past the point I'm currently at! What is your situation now - I hope you don't mind me asking.

@NeurotypicallyPrivileged

I'm sorry I feel like you may have misunderstood me. The police were not called because DH was abusive, they were called because we had seperated and I needed to be back in my house with the kids without him there.
They certainly were not unprofessional. During an informal chat - where I told them that he definetly is not a narcissist - I'm 100% certain - his behaviours are not intended to cause harm - he genuinely doesn't understand where he's going wrong and why - nor do I. This is where he informally said people with aspergers hold similer traits to narcissists so it could be aspergers. That was it.
We also had a conversation on how when he's talking, he's literally shouting - making everyone feel uncomfortable but when you tell him - he is ADAMANT that he's talking at a normal volume. (He has had ear opps and has a disease inside both ears)
I genuinely thought he was 'shouting at me' - we had a discussion. Turns out he needed hearing aids and since we haven't had an issue with this.

I have seen the videos on youtube re aspholes etc - and completely understand where you're coming from. However, I'm certain DH has aspergers and isn't just being an asshole lol!

I agree and do think he needs a professional diagnosis so we can get the right help. He has ADHD too. It takes time and money so in the meantime I'm looking for proactive ways to deal with the situation the best I can. And the first and most important way is to join a support group where my feelings are heard and seen.

Just because I'v said he's difficult to live with doesn't mean he's abusive. It means some of his unintentional behaviours have a negative effect on me. For example, when he falls out over a small issue and takes days to get over it - it makes me so uncomfortable. He doesn't do it maliciously nor to cause any harm - it's beyond his control.

Sorry, if my message is long and boring - I'm about to go to bed and thought I would check mumsnet before I do.

@AspergersWife I like the sound of his sister! An ‘outsider’ but family member can have a lot of impact, well done to her. Not many people will be as upfront and honest. I’m also worried about his deletion of accounts, it’s not sustainable and isn’t a mature way to solve this. DH also did this with his ‘women’ friends, deleted everyone, said he wouldn’t go out. However this was putting it all on me, ‘doing it for us’ and I felt pulled into the problem. Inevitably your DH will feel unfulfilled gaming on his own and tempted to ‘go back’ but not tell you.

@LoveYorkshire welcome! Sounds pretty tough. Have there been happier times? Has he always got angry about these small things or is it getting worse? Falling out over small issues lasting days sounds exhausting. I did also once consider whether DH was narcissistic, I know that term gets bandied around, he’s pretty grandiose. DH undiagnosed so what do I really know tbh.
@NeurotypicallyPrivileged speaks very good advice. We are all armchair psychologists! For me it is the similarities with DS who is diagnosed that led me to see traits in DH, who openly says he’s ‘difficult to live with’. It’s not an excuse however there was a short period where thinking DH has asperger’s was a very hopeful time, I thought with better understanding our marriage could be saved. It made some difficult aspects easier to live with, even without a diagnosis, as I could see it wasn’t ‘my fault’.

@Blossominspring2021
Well, the 'making small things big' isn't always there. I'v noted that when he's over worked, stressed or has intense pain in his ears (which
is often because he has a disease which they can't get rid of despite the operations) - this is when this behaviour is triggered.

You're right, @NeurotypicallyPrivileged does talk sense! I agree a diagnosis is important and I can't assume he has asp based on a suggestion.

I have done ALOT of research though - although I'm not a professional, I do have a degree in Psychology which helps.

The behaviours that makes me think he has asp..

1. He can't maintain relationships with family/friends - he wants to and tries but can't.

If he does make a friend - he'll go overboard to make an effort. It still doesn't last.

1. He can't make small talk. He avoids phone calls, stays quiet if someone comes over, avoids going to social gatherings. He can literally stay in his room for hours alone and be happy with that
2. He doesn't understand sarcasm/jokes. He takes everything literally.
3. Every convo I have with him involves talking about something that interests him. Mostly - history/political related stuff.
4. He's also impulsive - like for weeks we had been discussing how we need to move some of the furniture around to different rooms. One evening just before bed - I come up and his mid way moving a king size bed from one room to the other. He suddenly had the urge to move everything that evening - at that moment. It was chaos and all over the place. He does stuff like this often.

My judgement might be wrong but I can definetly relate to alot of the messages on this post.
I can't always get my thoughts in to words so thank you for being patient and understanding.

Even though I’m on a board about asperger’s, DH is undiagnosed (and won’t get one) - and for me I wouldn’t say all of our difficulties are because of ASD. I come on here because other people have many similarities which does help me piece myself together as I move on. However these similarities are not always ASD, and trying to see what is ‘DH’ and asperger’s doesn’t help me - so I just put down my experience. For me this group is ‘husband has traits of (possible) autism that are causing difficulties and by sharing this with others who have similar might help understand and help us in our relationships, either to help stay and be happier or leave.’

I don’t know if that makes sense!

So @LoveYorkshire if you feel that there are difficulties and that sharing them will help - I wouldn’t necessarily worry about whether these are ASD or not. They are your experience and if you find some difficult, (without labelling them) then sharing here could help.

I know DH is 1 & 2 - no small talk, loses interest in most relationships. No small talk is OK to compromise on. The relationships is harder as he didn’t like being with my friends/family and got bored of me!

1. Yes to only talking about interests - again I found this OK to compromise on.

3 & 5 - this is actually me! I hate sarcasm and will change a whole room around at 10pm.

For you though @loveyorkshire - what is the most difficult for you in your relationship? What do you think you could compromise on? And what is much more important? Could you try and negotiate together?

I’ve been here since the 1st thread (I started this thread because I didn’t want to lose it) and have posted a few times. It’s good to see new people here.

We’re in our mid 60’s now, together for 20 years. My H isn’t diagnosed, but says that he’s autistic, and he’s quite proud of this He would never seek diagnosis, he doesn’t see the need. He masked quite well when we were “going out“ in our mid 40’s, and the full on AS didn’t show itself until just after we were married.

I used to work in CAMHS as a mental health nurse and recognised those traits in him after we married. I probably recognised them before, but didn’t see the red flags, and he masked very well. We did the AQ test together and he scored very high ,while I scored very low.

As time has gone on, we have both retired and his AS traits have become much more obvious. We have no social life together and he has no social life alone. I do.

He has adult children, siblings and a friend (just the one) who all live 150 miles away, but he makes no effort to see them, and it seems that a 30 second phone call every Sunday is ok. He has never seen his adult kids in their own homes, and has never met his 5 grandchildren. How strange is that?
I communicate with my adult children regularly, (more often than he does) but not set in stone for 30 seconds on a Sunday. I travel over to see my kids and they come over to stay here regularly (Covid regs permitting).

His world exists entirely in our house and garden, whereas I have managed to carve myself a life by doing courses, volunteering and meeting other women. I’m out of the house maybe one day a week, sometimes two. I chat to friends on the phone a couple of times a week.

Lockdowns haven’t helped In this last year and I have really had to fight against “doing everything together”, eg when I’m cleaning, but he wants to go to the garden centre and expects me to go with him.
Its so hard, if I say no and “rebel”, he can sulk for days.

The lockdowns have brought home to me just how dysfunctional our relationship is, I know I need to get out, actually doing it is very hard. ,

anyway just and love to to us all xxx

BluebellForest thank you very much for starting this thread, I've found it so helpful.

I'm really sorry to hear about your situation, it sounds tough 💐 keep talking