Married to someone with Aspergers: support thread 5

[Bluebellforest1]

New thread

@AspergersWife Ditto the anti-crushes and all is fine as long as I don’t challenge what he does. If I challenge his behaviour he sees it as an assault, that he is a victim of bullying and that he did nothing to deserve it. I have tried to explain that his behaviour is not respectful of me or our marriage. He immediately reverses it and comes out with 101 things I’ve apparently done that he has found disrespectful. Does not want to hear anything negative about himself. Fights back immediately. He has done some appalling things which have caused significant damage to our lives. It’s like it never happened. I don’t believe for a second he has learned from it. Not one bit. If a similar situation arose he would do it again because he wouldn’t see the correlation between what happened last time and what could happen this time. It is exhausting.

Counselling may help you end your marriage in a positive way. Doesn’t have to be about staying together does it? It can be about ensuring communication is clear and considered during a potentially challenging time. I hope your appointment goes well.

I'm tired of saying things over and over, just to be ignored, but when someone else says it he listens. That is disrespectful to me. It makes me feel worthless. But then because he acts like he's so reasonable and I'm so demanding, it makes me doubt my own feelings. They are constantly dismissed and invalidated and I told him no more

This is called Gaslighting. It's abusive whether intentional or not and it's very damaging to the person on the receiving end.

Counselling may help you end your marriage in a positive way. Doesn’t have to be about staying together does it

Absolutely.Our first Relate session she asked where we each were in our thinking about our marriage: 1) really want to stay together 2) not sure whether should stay together 3) want help separating. Then DH said 1. I said 2. He was v shocked. Our counsellor was good but unfortunately me actually speaking my mind (kindly mind you) and his cyclical but undiagnosed bipolar led to a massive depression (him) and we had to stop. He later told me he didn't the counsellor was very good ("everything's my fault"). I said I thought she was good. He was silent.

@colouringindoors

I'm tired of saying things over and over, just to be ignored, but when someone else says it he listens. That is disrespectful to me. It makes me feel worthless. But then because he acts like he's so reasonable and I'm so demanding, it makes me doubt my own feelings. They are constantly dismissed and invalidated and I told him no more

This is called Gaslighting. It's abusive whether intentional or not and it's very damaging to the person on the receiving end.

I thought the point of gaslighting was that it is intentional.

Regardless of that, what you describe is very wearing. I deal with it just by accepting that DW is just not being reasonable.

There is a price though, it comes in not trusting DW with my feelings, and that's lonely.

I’ve definitely been ‘gaslighted’ - made to think I’m the problem, that I’m imagining things and being over sensitive. However as has been said I don’t think DH intended this, more that he saw no problem at all in protecting his own view of himself. So he’s told his family that I’m controlling and unbearable - so that he can deflect from his lack of commitment and some of the bad things he’s done. He’s even said ‘I’d never have done those things (lied, ignored me etc) if we had a good relationship’ - and I pointed out that it was the lying and never paying us any attention that made the relationship fail!

It’s a weird circular thinking that is impenetrable.

We did have a good counsellor at one point who called DH out and said his inability to compromise was key.

In one session she asked him to say why he thought I was controlling. He said that I ‘didn’t let him have friends’. She probed him. He admitted it was mainly female friends. She asked if I had stopped him or altered his actions. He said no. She asked him what exactly I had done. He said that I’d said I was uncomfortable and upset. She asked more, he said that he went for lunches, coffees, meals. Texted a lot sometimes. Went on chat apps with different women.

She then said ‘but Blossom has said previously that you don’t like to go out with her, don’t text or chat much’. Don’t you think it is hurtful to her to prioritise other women over your wife? Don’t you think it is ok to be upset by that?

DH had never had an outside person reflect back that this was something that most spouses would find upsetting. He was totally shocked as this one of the main reasons he was refusing to try in our marriage.

DH had never had an outside person reflect back that this was something that most spouses would find upsetting. He was totally shocked

yeah mine always thought I was unreasonable. Until someone else said exactly the same thing. Really, really shit to be on the receiving end if. For me.

So interesting to hear other people’s experiences. With regards to ‘crushes’ my DH came home one day and told me how a female colleague had been distressed at work because her husband had been messaging other women and was spending time with them instead of her. He came home absolutely incensed that a man could do this to his colleague and called him names saying what a ‘poor excuse for a husband’ this man was.

I said ‘But this is what you do isn’t it? Isn’t he just doing the same as you do?’

He couldn’t see the similarity at all. He felt he was justified in his behaviour but his colleague’s husband was absolutely not. And it’s that I struggle with, that he can easily excuse his poor behaviour and dismiss my experience but show outrage when his colleague is experiencing the same.

It made me feel that he seems to think I deserve it.

I feel for all of you experiencing this kind of behaviour and being labelled unreasonable for feeling what anyone would feel in these circumstances.

@RainyMayDay I could have written your 19:33 post above word for word.

DW definitely creates false memories in order to validate her self esteem but I'm not sure it's deliberate.

For instance she recently claimed she spent two weeks painting the outside of the house. She didn't, she spent two three hour sessions tops and maybe did about 10%. I did the rest and it only took three (long) days. But I think she now honestly believes she spent two weeks painting. It's as if saying something makes it true.

@Daftasabroom 😢

I can relate to that. There’s a different interpretation to what actually happened. And it’s always in DH’s favour. It’s true because he says it is. And like you, I think he actually believes it.

Hi everyone, I hope it’s ok for me to join the thread.

My DH doesn’t have a diagnosis. There is ASD in his wider family. I strongly suspect
his father has ASD (I’m sorry if I’m not using the correct terminology here) and DH has said similar - but no diagnosis. His uncle on his mother’s side fits just about every stereotype of someone with ASD going, but again not diagnosed. That uncle’s two sons/ DH’s cousins are both diagnosed though. My MIL is adamant that DH’s gran (FILs mum) was autistic - there obviously wouldn’t have been diagnosis in those days especially for a woman but MIL is convinced and a lot of what she describes seems like it could fit the bill.

I work in education so have some experience/ training but only as it relates to children and I recognise I’m in no way qualified to diagnose or generalise. Nevertheless I feel strongly that DH has a lot of ASD traits which only seem to become more apparent over time.

We have been together 7 years, married for nearly 2. We have a baby DD.

I’m just going to list the issues we’re facing as I feel like if I don’t get them off my chest I’ll go mad. I’m not saying any/ all of these are ASD related I’m just trying to get a handle on it all really.

• DH really struggles with intimacy, sharing a bed etc. He has very little interest in sex - this was masked at the beginning and he did seem to want sex fairly often. Nowadays he’s not interested at all - could go entirely without it he says. When we do have sex it’s very mechanical/ perfunctory. He has an almost teenage boy attitude to sex, makes ridiculous comments that sound like they’re out of a Carry On film. Very uncomfortable with it basically - no ability to talk about it in an adult way, no real understanding that I might have needs or desires - he doesn’t want it so that’s that - if I try to explain my needs aren’t being met he’ll make some joke or offer to give me a ‘seeing to’ or something equally cringeworthy that just kills any desire dead but then it’s me that’s turned the offer down so not him at fault anymore in his mind. When we’ve tried to have more sensible discussions about this he has occasionally admitted to never really having much desire or drive. He’s only really ever had one other relationship as an adult that I can gather (had a gf throughout his teens but they never had sex apparently) - he says it was the same with her. Absolutely no interest in different positions/ locations/ outfits etc etc or any of the things you would usually do to ‘spice things up’.

• Lack of desire for any other kind of physical closeness. Wouldn’t occur to him to come and give me a cuddle spontaneously, doesn’t want to sit next to me on the sofa watching tv for example. Really strongly needs his own space. Will come and give me a hug/ kiss when reminded that this is something he ‘should’ do, or be more physically affectionate/ sit next to me on the sofa and put his arm round me for example if we’ve had a big ‘state of the relationship’ type fall out and I’ve got really upset. Will do it to placate me but never from any need or desire to be close to me coming from him. Says ‘no no I do want to’ but as soon as things seem to be back on an even keel (ie I’ve calmed down) he forgets to bother again until I ask or insist again.

• As a result of the above - wants to sleep alone. Struggles to share a bed. This was actually quite apparent from the start, he’d come to mine and we’d have sex then he’d want to go home. I got upset about it and we compromised on him sleeping in my spare room - looking back I can’t believe I was ever ok with this (I’m not sure I was really) - I try to explain to him how much I’d love just to wake up next to him and have him snuggle in to me, put his arms round me, nuzzle my neck etc. It’s like I’m speaking a foreign language - he can’t imagine why any of those things might be nice or enjoyable and is adamant that nobody really does that in a long relationship (he ignores the fact he never did it full stop). He constantly talks about how he’s going to ‘try’ and ‘make an effort’ to come back to the bed. He heard someone somewhere saying that it’s not healthy for a marriage and so he tells me he wants to because he knows it’s not healthy, but it never really happens - he might start the night in bed with me a few nights in a row then the whole thing gets forgotten. There is ALWAYS a reason why it can’t be now - at the moment it’s the baby cosleeping and it’s a perfect get out for him because he sees that as my choice, and will say ‘well she needs to go in the cot so once that’s sorted we can share a bed again’ but when I say - before that it was the dog - when the dog wasn’t in the room it was because it was too hot, or too cold, or there was a noise or whatever. He just looks blankly and insists it’s because of dd cosleeping ignoring the fact it’s always been an issue from day 1. He didn’t even share a bed with me on honeymoon - our cottage had two bedrooms and he decamped to the other one more often than not. I swear if he could have got away with booking a separate room for our wedding night he’d have done it. Yet keeps insisting he DOES want to come back to the bed, wants to try, promises he’ll make an effort. But doesn’t understand the fact that it’s such a bloody effort that he has to try to hard to do completely kills it for me - I’m sick of being the one begging and getting rejected. I can accept he finds it hard to sleep in a bed with another person, so many times we’ve talked about compromises and ways to get both our needs met - eg agreed that he sleeps in another room on work nights but tries to at least start the night with me at the weekend, or he sleeps in the other room but at the weekends he comes into bed in the morning for a cuddle and a chat - they all last a few days or a few weeks then get forgotten about. I’m always put back in the position of having to be the one to ask my own husband to show me some affection or act like he has any desire to be close to me.

Cont
Gets fixated on certain issues. Can’t seem to move on. Finds work/ dealing with others really stressful and has to ‘dump’ or offload all this onto me. Will rant for ages about it, the same things over and over again. It just goes round in a loop and he doesn’t seem to be able to get out of it ‘Bob did this, I told him that the blah blah technical thing needed doing but blah blah something else technical and he said this and there’s nothing I can do and I’m sick of that place and there’s nothing I can do and I’m sick of it and blah blah repeats same technical thing again and repeats what Bob said and did again and loop back to start of the conversation again and there’s nothing I can do’ on and on and on. The same phrases on loop. When I try to respond or suggest things he just says ‘no because ...’ and repeats the exact conversation again. When I explain I don’t understand the technical term he’s using he says ‘I know sorry it’s just ...’ repeats the same conversation again, if I try to say there are things he can do such as X Y Z he says no, it wouldn’t work and repeats what he’s already told me, if I agree yeah it’s shit there’s nothing you can do he just agrees and repeats again. When I say I really can’t keep hearing it because it’s getting me down too he gets all huffy and ‘fine I was just telling you about my day because Bob did’ AND STILL REPEATS THE WHOLE THING AGAIN. It’s like he’s caught in this endless loop and the only way to break it is me to physically leave the room (doesn’t mean he won’t follow me or just get back into it the second I come back).

• Has meltdowns - they’re very occasional but they happen. Proper throwing things across the room, repeatedly chanting that he can’t cope/ has had enough. Smacks himself. Doesn’t do it in the room with me, but if I’m in the house I can hear it. It can be distressing and scary.

• Seems incapable of instigating change. We don’t have enough room in this house. We very much need to move. DH has recently had quite a large inheritance that would allow that to happen. Despite which he repeatedly insists we can’t afford things and money is tight. It’s not particularly. Gets caught up in detail - currently banging on about how we’ve missed the stamp duty window and all woe is me, everything goes wrong for him, now we can’t move because we’ve missed that window etc. We can still move - well just have to pay stamp duty which we always would have anyway apart from Covid, but it’s a perfect excuse now for him to do nothing. Constantly looking on rightmove but just uses it to confirm ‘all the good stuff has gone’ or that there’s nothing suitable - if something suitable does come up then the goalposts are shifted - well we need 4 bedrooms, well he wants a close so DD can play out, well he doesn’t want that type of kitchen etc. When really pressed and made to confront the reality that we need to move will agree but just says he doesn’t have the headspace ‘at the moment’ - but it will never change.

-Really struggles spending money in general - will happily wear clothes that are in an absolutely shocking state (actively prefers t-shirts that are 20+ years old and full of holes for example but does at least only wear them at home) and has never bought a new item of clothing in the entire time I’ve known him. If it wasn’t for me/ his mum buying him things he’d look a bloody state. Does still seem to have issues with the new things - I suspect some sensory issues with clothing though he’s never explicit about it.

• Finds quite ordinary life stresses almost overwhelming. Eg doing some long overdue and much needed work on the house - constant swearing and huffing and complaints of how hard and awful it all is. Complete overreactions to even the most minor setback. When I deal with it as in ‘calm down, I’ll call x, he can fix that, we can just do y and z’ and that sinks in he’s all ‘you’re right, sorry babe, I just got overwhelmed - but the next time it’s the exact same thing.

• Early on in our relationship - a little while after I’d moved in, I had an accident and had an injury/ broken bone. His immediate reaction was angry and like he blamed me. He was absolutely vile whilst I was recovering. I don’t understand what was going on there and never will really. I don’t really understand why I didn’t leave either, it deserved leaving. Whilst this has never been repeated on this scale (and he knows in no uncertain terms I’d be gone if it was) - his reaction to things like accidents and illnesses etc can often come across as anger rather than concern. He’s definitely got better - he was amazing when I was going through fertility treatment and during my pregnancy and birth. Couldn’t have been more supportive. To some extent it’s like he learns - because of what happened in the past I’ve sort of had to explain to him how upsetting that was, why it made me worry about having a child with him because I felt that I wouldn’t be able to trust him to support me if things went wrong, what I would actually need in that case. And to be fair he did all that and was great - but it’s exhausting having to explain things that I feel should be obvious. Also I had a traumatic birth and was very ill. I’ve spoken about maybe having a debrief with the hospital and he can’t see why I’d want that. When i ask him to fill me in on things that happened as I was out of it he 'cant remember'. when i ask if he was scared

or worried he says no - just completely emotionless and shut down about it.

Cont
Social anxiety though masks it well. If anything comes across as the more confident and outgoing of the two of us but before any event/ trip he'll get really angsty and irritable, obsess about being late to the point of trying to make us leave hours and hours early.

• Just says really insensitive things with no understanding of why they’re insensitive- will say I look ‘perfectly fine’ and not understand why that’s not what I wanted to hear. Will sometimes correct it to ‘i mean you look nice, beautiful!’ Because he knows that’s what he’s ‘supposed’ to say - but it’s not what he means - he means perfectly fine. Irrelevant, not important, just fine. Will say I ‘gobbled’ my food or if I finish my meal he’ll do a stupid ‘joke’ about how he thought there would be some left but it’s all gone and ‘oooh mummy obviously enjoyed that she gobbled it all up didn’t she DD’ then when I ask if he has a point of something to say about my eating will say it was a joke or I’m reading too much into it.

My skin has been terrible since DD, I mentioned it was like having teenage acne again, he was like ‘haha did you get called spotty surname at school’ - I said yes actually I was picked on quite a bit and very sensitive about it. He said oh sorry. But will still point out my spots.

The thing that’s brought me to posting was last night he pointed at where DD had scratched me and I had a spot there that bled and has scabbed over. I’m clearly going to be sensitive about it. He’d seen me all day so obviously knew it was there. Out of nowhere he pointed to it last night and said ‘what’s that’ so I said dd scratched me.
He said ‘oh it looks like a spot’. I said if he knew it was a spot why did he ask and why bring it up? He said because he didn’t want me to pick my spots and I shouldn’t do that. I said well dd scratched me so that’s that. He then started a ‘once upon a time there was a little girl called IfIFell and she was very spotty and all the other children ...’ I didn’t let him finish I just saw red and told him to shut up and left the room. His ‘jokes’ often take the form of these little stories, it’s so odd. He finds really really strange things like that funny that nobody I know would laugh at, apparently I’m humourless though. Yet what most people would think of as normal humour he doesn’t get at all - there’s not a single comedian or comedy show that he finds funny. They baffle him. If we’re in company he’ll laugh along and try to join in but in private he just says he doesn’t get it, I’ve never seen him laugh at anything that wasn’t one of his own weird jokes or stories.

When I tried explaining last night that it was horrible to pick on my insecurities like that he kept saying it was a joke and he didn’t know I was insecure about them. I pointed out I’d told him before but he claimed he didn’t remember. Then the next thing is always ‘I didn’t mean to say it’. He says that a lot - very often if I’m upset by something he’s done it leads to an argument and if I try to tell him how unhappy it’s making me I just get told to go, get out, me and DD should just get lost then. But then he’s sorry, distraught and always ‘he didn’t mean it’
So when I say why say it then, words have meanings and you can’t keep saying the same ones and not expect me to take it seriously he’ll say ‘I didn’t mean to say it, I don’t know what to say so I just said that, I don’t know what I’m supposed to say. So after the ‘spotty’ joke of last night it was all ‘I didn’t mean to say it, I just thought it would be a funny story, I’m sorry, I understand why it was wrong now’. Then two minutes later ‘god I said I was sorry it’s not a big deal let’s move on’. There’s been no mention today - he’ll have completely forgotten. It will be filed under him making a joke and me being sensitive, not worth worrying about, everyone move on. On some level he gets that it’s not nice to hurt your wife’s feelings but because he wouldn’t care about something like that said to him then he doesn’t see it as that big a deal. I tried to explain it’s all tied up with the lack of physical affection, rejection and now pointing out my physical flaws and that I don’t feel like he finds me attractive or desires me and I feel rejected and crap about myself. But he doesn’t get that - it wouldn’t occur to him to worry whether I find him attractive. He certainly makes no effort whatsoever to appear attractive to me. In his mind we’re married, the ‘attracting’ has been done and there’s absolutely no need for any further effort - he actually said ‘we’re married, we have a baby’ as if that’s all the proof or reassurance I need. That box ticked - he has a relationship and a family, now he never needs bother with me again almost.

I’m sorry this is so long - it’s taken the better part of the day to write it around caring for DD. I’m just feeling so tired and completely heartbroken today - just really sinking in he might love me but he never will the way I want/ need to be loved. This is as good as it gets. And it’s my fault because I think I knew all this at least on some level when I married him. I just think I thought we could work on things and get better but this is who he is and who am I to say he should change? I feel so broken today and he will just be there thinking oh well we had a bit of a tiff, no harm done. If he’s thinking about me at all - doubtful.

It’s not your fault, please don’t blame yourself, you were not to know how deep this goes.

I really don’t know how you’ve managed, you’ve been through some diabolical things. You are very strong and patient. I can only admire this.

No one says you have to be strong and patient forever if it’s breaking you.

Thank you.
I've made him sound so awful which isn't fair either.
He tells me he loves me all the time. He supports me in things I want to do - when I gained a qualification I'd worked hard for for example he framed the certificate and hung it up in the house ready for when I came home just as an example. His wedding speech was so lovely and personal and made me feel like he actually 'saw' me - I've kept a copy to reread on bad days. He's given generous and thoughtful gifts in the past - although would ideally prefer just to give me cash but he does make the effort most times. He's paid for things like my car repairs before when we were just dating and I couldn't afford it at the time. He tells me often what a good job I'm doing with DD and always says thank you for everything I do for the family. He does his share of cooking, cleaning, shopping etc. He's really good with DD, does her bath, plays with her, makes her laugh, takes her weekend mornings so I can lie in - though the entirety of the mental load is left to me it's true. He's so good and patient with my ancient dog as well, was really 'not a dog person's when we met but has really bonded with him and does the majority of his care now I'm so taken up with DD. Makes a big effort with my family and friends.

I feel like he really does try to make me happy. Some things he was so clueless about eg would say and do the wrong thing when I was upset about a bereavement - when I really clearly explained 'that's not what I need, I need this' he really did change and that's what he does now when I need support in that way. Quite often when we come up against an issue he'll seem so stumped and just have no idea how to react, and he'll say 'what do you want me to say' - and often if I tell him exactly what I do want him to say and do he'll store that bit of info and will in future do and say the thing I asked for. He tries so hard. But its quite draining having to explain all the time and ask for things that I wish were freely given.

And certain things we don't seem to get anywhere on no matter how many times I explain or state what I need. But the fact that some things were 'fixable'I guess made me have hope we could improve the other stuff, the really big stuff, and I'm just starting to come to terms with the fact that we probably can't, and even if we could I'm not sure it doesn't all feel too damaged now anyway.

Sometimes I wonder if its ASD at all, maybe just learned behaviour from his dad and his parents relationship. But then things like last night- the fact he really genuinely didn't intend to be hurtful and it had to be pointed out to him how it WAS hurtful and even then I'm not sure he got it.

Sometimes things have happened that have resulted in conversations where I have been a big like 'but WHY would you think that's ok' and he'll get frustrated at himself and say he's not normal, he knows he's not right, he can't react like 'normal people' and he should just be on his own, shouldn't have got married or had children. (All his words) I ask if that's what he wants and he says no, he loves me, adores DD, wants us to be happy, wants a happy life with us, does fancy me etc etc. That's usually when he'll start being affectionate for a bit, come to bed at least for part of the night a few times- but sooner or later he withdraws and we're back to square one.

We were ttc for a long time - that masked a lot of the sex thing. Once I was pregnant we had sex maybe twice, and not at all since DD was born.

The good description of him is really lovely.

The question is, are you willing to enjoy the pros and try to live with and accept the cons? You have said there may be some things on which you may never be able to progress.

Sometimes it’s about radical acceptance to stop the suffering, or radical packing. Both achieve similar jobs.

@IfIFell I agree with @BookiesBicycle the positive description of your DH sounds lovely and I am sure all of us could give an account of some of the lovely characteristics of our partners. However I know this doesn’t in any way make up for the traits that are really challenging and sometimes downright cruel whether they mean it or not.

What you said about the spot issue is interesting. If I ever get a spot my DH will point it out and say ‘What’s that?’ despite the fact it is obvious. Luckily that doesn’t hit a nerve with me but there are other things that do. For a while I was losing my hair and he would constantly tell me ‘Looks like you’ve lost more hair today’, ‘You’re going bald’, ‘Aren’t you worried about going bald’, ‘Aren’t you worried about going grey?’ And so it goes on. Yet if I dared mention anything about his appearance he would react incredibly sensitively and make a huge issue about how nasty I am.

He has this thing about pointing out things about celebrities’ appearance on the television so we get ‘Look at her teeth. Why hasn’t she done something with her teeth?’ Or ‘She’s aged a lot and put on weight hasn’t she?’ He is sensitive about his looks so I do wonder if that’s why he has to point things out. It’s draining and irritating. One day I lost it a bit and said ‘Well they obviously can’t be as perfect as you’. Didn’t go down well, I was accused of being nasty and bullying him.

My DH would also see things as ticks in a box...got married, got a house, had children. These external things are important as it’s how he measures success but it also means that if something doesn’t go quite as planned, all hell breaks loose. He can’t accept that people are different. I might have different things I want to do, that no, I don’t want to do the same hobby as he does. He took it as a personal insult when he took up tennis and I didn’t want to join him. That if he wants to do a particular activity I might not want to join him. He thinks that if I cared about him and was a proper partner I’d want to do all these things. Yet he doesn’t want to do my hobbies and that’s ok.

He wants to be in control of things happening around him which I take to mean he wants to feel in control of himself.

I’m sorry for what you are going through @IfIFell . It’s particularly hard with a young child and to feel that your future is mapped out and there is little room for change. I try to remind myself that nobody’s life is perfect and have to consider what the deal-breakers are for me. Knowing your own boundaries is so important because my DH kicks against them all the time. Next time it happens he’s in for a shock though because I have reached my limit. I’ve told him I’ve reached my limit. I’m not sure he fully understands this but if there is one more incident on my deal-breaker list I will be leaving.

IfIFell that sounds really hard and you would be a robot if you didn't feel hurt and lonely by your experiences re beds, your wellbeing etc etc. For me being told I was loved when words and actions didn't match was harmful. What you've written souns, ime, like ASD. But whatever it is, you have to consider, is this what you want, in the long term. Is this relationship good for you, and will it enable you to be a good mum?

@RainyMayDay and @Daftasabroom I can completely relate to the false memories, and it makes me quite relieved to read that you have experienced this too, although also very sad that you have. With DH he admits that he doesn’t remember many things, that most people would. His mother is similar. When DS was diagnosed autistic I asked her about DH’s childhood up to 7/8. She genuinely couldn’t remember anything. However DH will then fill in gaps himself as if these are true and he believes them.

I refused to carry on with the counsellor at one point as he kept telling her things that weren’t true. They could be minor but obviously I guess if you filled in gaps it would be to your benefit rather than reality, which was what happened (e.g. once DH called me a derogatory name, but in counseling it was the other way around he reported. I genuinely think he did not remember it right and totally believed his version, rather than be consciously lying).

DW definitely creates false memories in order to validate her self esteem but I'm not sure it's deliberate. Yes I get that too. DH doesn’t tell really big lies, but the small ones build and together mean I often don’t think he has a good grip on relationship realities. Other people can manipulate him I think.

However for us I think it has been very destructive, without DH really meaning to. I think he did feel quite guilty about the way he treated me and DS - he wasn’t being a good family man and I do believe that he wants to feel like a good man. However when it became clearer to his friends and family that he wasn’t treating us that well, he told them these small untruths. They then reflected these back as realities, making them stronger ‘truths’ for DH.

For example, a couple of his female friends expressed dismay when DH did make more of an effort with me rather than them. In order to ‘let them down’ without making him look too bad, he just told these female friends that he didn’t really want to spend more time with me, but felt obligated because I had some jealous feelings. The friends then started to tell DH that he shouldn’t let himself be controlled by my jealousy and there was no reason to be as they weren’t having an affair etc.

With family they noticed that DH wasn’t spending much time with DS. At first he told then that I was a ‘over worried as a parent - she even thinks that he has possible autism’. To which he said that was crazy. However after the diagnosis and it turned into ‘Blossom won’t let me be with him she’s over attached’. And then there was a difficult period where then his family took that completely on board and tried to separate me and DS ‘for our own good’ - still not believing he was autistic and believing I was starting to be over controlling which was why DH ‘couldn’t’ do more for his DS. In reality I had spent quite a long time trying to get DH to spend more time with DS but he never got out of bed at the weekends after long nights up either gaming / projects, and in the afternoons he liked to do housework or his own thing.

However DH now had friends and family all say to him that his relationship wasn’t a good one - because he’d seeded these small untruths every time he felt bad about his behaviour but wouldn’t admit it. And he then believed them so much he actually turned to me one time and said that why was I denying that I was no good for him - when so many people thought that of me too? He told me that I must be like that, otherwise all these people wouldn’t have thought that of me!

I tried telling him - but every single person who knows me doesn’t think that, including at least two counselors. And the only people who think that of me, are people that he’s talked to about me and told. Not one of those people had direct experience of my so called ‘controlling’ behaviour. It was all hearsay through him. And at least some of his friends and family, knew me well enough also not to believe a word of it!

Apologies that was longer than I meant to write!

So I do think in the end DH dug himself a big hole in our marriage that he now can’t get out of. It destroyed it. I really don’t know in the future if he will be able to break free of it, because perhaps he will won’t have children with the next one and therefore demands will be lower. Or whether this will just keep repeating. I just know that I’ve got to understand what went on a bit better otherwise I might internalise some of the things that weren’t really my fault. I wish I’d understood him and our marriage better in the early years, perhaps there would have been a chance that it could have worked. Or perhaps I really am not the woman for him.

@IfIFell that all sounds tough, I’m sorry it’s been hard on you. Like others have said, the positive with the negative. I don’t know if it helps but DH also is quite ‘ruthless’. He will be utterly brutal when pointing out in real life and celebs who has lost their looks, gained weight. He feels that his opinion is worth more as it is very frank. And in a way, he’s right I think part of me must have been attracted to his view of the world. However it is hard when life becomes tough. He did not compliment me when I didn’t look my best with the baby for example. And I really needed a boost, but he just won’t say you look good, if you don’t. And no, I didn’t look good. But love kind of needs a kind of constancy and generosity of compliment.

@Blossominspring2021 I could have written your post. The interactions with female friends where I have been blamed for the fact he can’t meet up with them. He refuses to own his behaviour at all. And like you not one other person has experienced me being ‘controlling’ - in fact I have made far fewer demands than perhaps others would - however in order not to own his actions and make me responsible he finds it easier to say that it’s my fault.

What you say about seeding untruths every time your DH feels bad about his behaviour rings so true. My DH has behaved in some appalling ways but simply can’t own it fully and therefore doesn’t learn from it. By somehow turning it round and convincing himself (and sometimes others) that I’m the bad guy and he is the victim, he manages to avoid any learning whatsoever and therefore, weeks or months down the line finds himself dealing with the same scenario.

He wants to be seen as a good person by everyone (bar me) and therefore lives a life of deceit by selectively choosing how he presents himself to the outside world.

The more I read these posts the more I realise I’ve had enough. To a certain extent I have normalised his behaviour. It’s become ‘normal’ even though it’s far from normal. It chips away at your love, trust and faith.

Yes to false memories! But whilst it paints them in a better light, it sends you as a listener/receiver blummin crazy, thinking is this a deliberate lie? Did it ever happen? Does he really forget this when it's so important? Am I not remembering things correctly? It's so, so exhausting and really does play into the gaslighting/abuse similarities, it may not be intentional lies but mentally it still has the same effect as gaslighting. For me every day is treading eggshells.

@RainyMayDay that's the sudden realisation I've had too, about the rationalising and normalising of the way he is. I've totally normalised our experience of lockdown, I.e. he does he thing day after day, and I am basically a household drudge or sitting alone. But I only saw it for what it was when I re-met up with an old friend who described the things he and his partner did to keep their spirits up, and actually realised just how intensely shitty it had been for me. It didn't have to be that way at all, but I'm so conditioned into making everything nice for H I completely ignored my own needs for so many months.

The consultation yesterday was quite helpful in one respect, H's knee jerk reaction was to go 'fix it' focused and so when I told him I was taking the kids out for tea, he finished work early and came with us. Not once during the past 12 months or so of lockdown has he ever tried to come home early just to break up our day, see the kids, help with homeschooling, whatever. It was a big deal for us to see him early. Yet he works for himself, can decide his own hours without impacting the business, but never ever ever will make concessions, despite our kids being so young and things not always being able to run on a schedule. It was nice to see him trying. However I know it's only as a direct result of me saying we should split up and I doubt it will be sustained.

I find that although he's a good financial support, he's lacking in practical as well as emotional support. I feel like he actively makes life harder for me. Example, I have to arrange appointments in school hours as he won't make any adjustments to his day and weekends he is unreliable. Even getting my covid jab was a huge drama because they only had evening appts and said no children could come. I needed him to be home 20 mins early to mind the kids - he couldn't manage it, so was 10 mins late. Luckily I accounted for that as I just knew he'd be late, so I told him a fake time, but doing that shouldn't be something I have to think about. I shouldn't need to lie because the father of my children can barely be bothered to 'mind' his own kids so I can get an important vaccine!

@IfIFell a lot of what you say sounds so familiar. I hear you and can see how frustrating your situation is. I wish I had some advice!

We are going to book a few counselling sessions but quite honestly I don't hold much hope for us. H was saying 'yes I'm committed to trying' but his body language was negative during the online consultation, and this morning was acting very reluctant about it. I've told him I honestly don't care either way. I really need him to drive this, show some fire or passion. But instead it's 'can you email the counsellor, can you book us in?' Why can't he? He has her email address, he knows my free days/times. Again his words do not match up with his actions, something the counsellor immediately picked up on during the video call. She reccs at least 4 sessions so I will commit to that, but I just can't shake the 'meh' feeling about it.

@AspergersWife I hear you. My DH has an alternate reality. The holidays I ‘made’ him go on that he hated. The time I ‘forced’ him to go to a theatre (we were given tickets for my birthday) when he didn’t want to go. Making him go to my brother’s wedding when he just wanted to stay at home. He can’t seem to see that the things we have done are all entirely reasonable expectations of a normal life. That going to a theatre to see a play is a nice thing to do. That suggesting a walk on a Sunday afternoon is actually quite reasonable.

I don’t ask him now.

I too have asked DH to come home earlier from work to help with things at home. I probably ask twice a year for that support. I follow it up with a text message in case he hasn’t heard me. He doesn’t respond. If I push it he complains about how busy he is. Other people are the priority. His home is not a priority and is taken for granted. Yet when a friend asks for help he will often run round there to support them and then tell everyone what a great guy he is for doing so.

I really feel for you. It’s draining and upsetting.