DH had lunch with another woman

[pizzaandcats]

Today my DH had a day off work while I was at home working (he gets a day off in the week if he is scheduled to work a weekend). He told me a few days ago that he would going out for a meal with some old work friends today. He also mentioned a little while ago that they were planning a team secret santa but then hasn't mentioned this since to say who he chose or that he was buying the gift (stay with me this will all be relevant in the end).

When he got back from the meal today he had a wrapped up present from his secret santa and told me it was from "A" (a woman he works with). I asked who he'd picked and he'd also coincidentally chosen "A".

When I asked who was at the meal he said it just ended up being him and "A" but that he did see some other people from the team before hand (I don't understand how he saw them before hand at a restaurant but they didn't stay for the meal. I didn't ask though as I felt like I'd quizzed him enough at this point).

Basically I am feeling uncomfortable about the fact that he went out for a meal just him and another woman and exchanged christmas presents. I just feel like he's been pretty vague about how it ended up being just the two of them and its quite a coincidence that they both chose each other in a secret santa too. Is my mind running away with me too much or is the situation very weird?

I also had to ask today what he bought for her as his present and usually he would just tell me or ask my advice on what he should buy.

I understand why you want to work things out. It's good he is taking what he did seriously. I hope that things work out for you. You seem lovely and didn't deserve all this stress.

You might not want it to become about age, OP, but it is a factor. You clearly have a long-standing, established relationship, and yet... Without wanting to be glib it’s not clear that you have yet met someone decent.

I do think you would be safer separating out your own insecurities from his recent behaviour. I may have missed this, but have you considered therapy to do this?

I'm taking on board everyone saying we may need therapy. Will be looking at costs and options soon as I think it could be good for us

Good luck OP

I was actually meaning therapy for yourself, OP, to look at your feeling that being alone would be unbearable (or close) and your past experiences with infidelity. Couples counselling can be useful of course, but I think you’re better off clarifying your own aims and boundaries first.

I think the age does put this in a completely different light. So he was 18, just a teenager when you got together. So he didn't do dating, having experiences/relationships with anyone else? His actions have been so telling, he seems like he is wanting all of the above. In 10 years you would be together for 18 years which sounds like a really long time but you both will not even be 40. Sorry op I think he would do this again, he chose to commit forever at such an immature and young age. He did try this now, I can't imagine him not wanting to again.

He has dated and had a couple of relationships before we met. He started younger than me. Although this was the first serious relationship in terms of moving in together, that goes for both of us. He has had more experience of dating and relationships than I have

Sadly I think you are only burying your head in the sand op. I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him

@pizzaandcats

He is showing a lot of remorse. It feels like a bit of a power shift really. I'd never previously have laid down the law. Yesterday I told him I do not want him to go into the office, so he didn't. Today I told him that I don't want this friendship to go any further, so he has deleted and blocked her. Usually he can be defensive and basically impossible to argue with (usually only petty little tiffs though) but this time he is admitting all fault and trying his absolute best to reassure me in his commitment to me. Everything he says or does now can obviously be spun negatively so I'm trying to be level headed and consider everything without automatically accepting or rejecting what he says. It is just words though isn't it. This will take time

I feel very sad reading this, much as I understand it.

This isn't about reassurance it's about gestures that will erode the core elements of a relationship.

I guarantee that saying you want him to stay at home, instead of going to the office, blocking her, ceasing social media contact, will not make you feel happier or the relationship more secure.

I do also get why you won't just throw away your 8 year relationship.

The age issue makes a huge difference IMO. He's only 26. 18 was so young to get together, and he can't realistically have had meaningful relationships before that.

I think stay & think & see what evolves, and what you're truly feeling. Give yourself time to think & decide what you really want. And your DH - he's behaved like a dick, but he's not wrong to realise he may be too young for this level of commitment.

Wishing you luck 💐

I agree regarding the age. You change so much between 18 and late 20s, much more than any other time, because you are moving from being a child to an adult, and the brain doesnt stop its growing/maturing until 26.
Also trying to conceive really brings home the 'this is forever' feelings.
I know a huge number of people who's partners have strayed during IVF or TTC - its almost as if the men view it as a last chance to sow some oats, because they are not really up for the actual reality of adult responsibility, even though they have enthusiastically gone along with the treatment. Similarly during pregnancy. And in young baby early days.

And again, therapy would be good to help you address your fear of being alone. You need to not just be in a relationship because you are scared of being alone. In fact Id go as far as to say that both people in a relationship should be happy to be alone, and to leave, for it to be successful - because in that way the relationship is adding to your life, not attempting to fill a hole (and we all have holes, some bigger than others) that makes you frightened to lose it.

He has had more experience of dating and relationships than I have

That actually means nothing op. Do you really think dating at 15,16,17 counts as experience. He was really just a child then.

Fwiw, if the work colleague had been revealing bits about her own slightly shaky relationship, it could be that DP was kind of flattered by being the sounding board and went along with it.

I disagree about the age thing - mainly because OP and partner are similar ages and dating history. And because I've seen a fair few very long relationships start at similar ages.

I'd step away from this thread if I were OP. She seems to have a good sense of what she needs now from partner. The next few weeks and months will be very revealing. As will some couples counselling if it can be found. Hopefully this is just a hiccup and DP will realise how much he stood to lose.

I've followed your thread and really felt for you - and genuinely pissed off at him on your behalf.

You are handling this very well even though it might not feel like it.

Just wanted to say I'm sorry this is happening and I hope you can get to a resolution you are happy with one way or another.

I agree with some of what MiddlesexGirl wrote. The OP has a very good sense of what she wants.

Counselling is the answer to uncover what happened and more importantly why it happened.

Put TTC on hold OP until after counselling. Make sure you have your child with somebody you can trust and rely on.

Please remember too that relationships that start in your thirties tend to move far quicker than those in your twenties so please don't think he is your last and only chance to have a baby. I wish you peace of mind and hope your future works out.

I used to go out for lunch with a married man when I was in my early 20s. I was naive, we worked together and I just thought we were good friends.
He would always pay for me.
Then, on our last lunch date before I left for a new job, he told me how he felt about me and I was shocked to say the least. I felt terribly guilty as I realised the true nature of our lunch dates (for him anyway).
Now that I'm married with DCs, I am annoyed with my younger naive self for going along with these cosy lunches.
As a wife, I would be furious, particularly as he was paying for my meal each time and would never let me pay.

He isn't decent though...he's telling someone over text that he finds them attractive and lying lots about the meeting.

You're burying your head in the sand.

Honestly OP, I'm a similar age to you, and I know/work with quite a few men around the 24/26 age bracket.

When I read that he was that age, I just thought "ah. That'll be it then"

Men around that age tend to change a lot. It tends to be the age where the wild party boys settle down, and take up mountain climbing or something equally wholesome, and it's also when the university met-during-fresher's couples split up.

Given that you're a few years older, and given that you sound like the sort of person who is quite focused, thoughtful, and self aware, you're naturally going to assume that your DH is on the same wavelength.

However, if I'm honest, it sounds as though he's enjoyed the excitement, and then the comforts, of falling in love and getting married.

But now, I'm guessing things have changed, he's probably developed a bit more confidence now he's older, possibly finds he's more attractive to a wider range of women now he's "established"and not just a daft early 20s bloke, and he's essentially decided that he wants a girlfriend rather than a wife.

Relationships that he had before the age of 18 are quite frankly up there with holding hands in the playground, and I think you're holding on to that as a bit of a comfort blanket really, but dating Ashley from lower sixth for a few months does not make him an old hand at relationships.

He's still a lying, probably cheating twat and none of this is your fault, but I do feel that this is the start of something for him

@alphajuliet123

Obviously, OP, you need to stealth open his gift from her. And tell us what it is. Might make a difference.

I think if it were anything ‘incriminating’ He would have opened it secretly before coming home? He could easily of said it came from his boss, a lad in the office etc? He didn’t have to say anything at all, he didn’t even have to say he’d had lunch with one other, he could easily have said 4 others were there?

@Denny53 that's merely the surface, we're balls deep in the thread at this point

I just have to work through if I’m able to let go of the what if’s and trust that I know all there is to know.

But you don’t know all there is to know. He intentionally wiped out 3 months worth of messages and lied about it. If he is indeed trying his best now to take responsibility and reassure you, then surely he will retrieve those messages. If he won’t, that speaks volumes as they still share secrets. In that case, you’d need to retrieve them yourself. You need to know what you are forgiving.

Ah you're both so young. What you need is a fun little adventure or joint hobby to bond you together once again. It feels like with TTC and the domesticity around building your lives together, you both may have forgotten what the excitement of the unknown offers. What spontaneity offers. All the joys of life before children take that away from you for a while.

Tough now with Covid, but plan a trip away, or take on a combined new hobby. Just something fun that means you step away from mundane day-day life and can re-discover each other.

It seems that's what he likely got from the friendship, just something different and new. A glimpse into another sort of life. And he needs to remember that you can experience that feeling even in an established relationship. But he needs to work at it with YOU.

God OP.

All I can say that if I were you at this point, considering therapy, I would also do my damndest to retrieve his messages to her.

You need to know what you are dealing with and what level his discontent is at.

@pizzaandcats

I really don't want this to become about age. I'm very much about establishing a relationship organically and slowly, we've done that and we have experienced a lot together in 8 years so I don't want it to come across as two kids who can easily just part ways and start again. We have a house, a marriage, pets, a lot of love for each others families etc. It's a lot to give up on as well as the fact that I would panick about meeting someone decent, settling down and having time to start a family given my fertility issues. I wouldn't stay with him just for that reason though, I need to be able to see us having a happy life together or there's no point is there

Sadly you are talking sunk cost fallacy here combined with fear of the future . Women usually do that when they are much older and many more years married . No one thinks they are going to divorce but it happens . As you say " you have to see you having a happy life together " which I wish you well with . Any decision you make now is not forever and you can change your mind at any point . Only time will reveal how committed and sorry he is .

I had a long term relationship from the age of 18. It was hard to let go but I knew it wasnt for me, behaved badly and treated him awfully. I informed him I was moving somewhere else. 800 miles away and off I went. He visited once but went back on the train later. I had outgrown him, I wanted different things, I wanted some fun and had plenty until I finally settled down in my late 20s. Sorry but sounds like your OH is moving on

My DH and I got together at similar ages. We both had what I guess I would now call emotional affairs before we settled down fully and got married late 20s. We did have a kinda understanding about “window shopping” being allowed... flirty ok but touching not. But I did get sent a text he sent that was not meant for me and the person I had been gently flirting with got over invested. So it quickly stopped feeling fun and got hurtful.
It took some soul searching, sorrow and honest discussions and an agreement to both stop but it has worked out for us.
I agree some individual counselling for you both may help. We both have had some. Never together but going individually has helped us commincate together.
Good luck with it all Op.