DH had lunch with another woman

[pizzaandcats]

Today my DH had a day off work while I was at home working (he gets a day off in the week if he is scheduled to work a weekend). He told me a few days ago that he would going out for a meal with some old work friends today. He also mentioned a little while ago that they were planning a team secret santa but then hasn't mentioned this since to say who he chose or that he was buying the gift (stay with me this will all be relevant in the end).

When he got back from the meal today he had a wrapped up present from his secret santa and told me it was from "A" (a woman he works with). I asked who he'd picked and he'd also coincidentally chosen "A".

When I asked who was at the meal he said it just ended up being him and "A" but that he did see some other people from the team before hand (I don't understand how he saw them before hand at a restaurant but they didn't stay for the meal. I didn't ask though as I felt like I'd quizzed him enough at this point).

Basically I am feeling uncomfortable about the fact that he went out for a meal just him and another woman and exchanged christmas presents. I just feel like he's been pretty vague about how it ended up being just the two of them and its quite a coincidence that they both chose each other in a secret santa too. Is my mind running away with me too much or is the situation very weird?

I also had to ask today what he bought for her as his present and usually he would just tell me or ask my advice on what he should buy.

He has very clearly chased, she has enjoyed being chased and let him know it. That IS the beginning of an affair as neither of them are single. They have both made it clear they are interested in one another and didn't give one thought to their current relationships whilst they, without anyone else knowing, arranged a private lunch and thoughtful presents for each other. Doesn't that seem a lot like an exciting, elicit and romantic date?!

He got rumbled, because you trusted your gut instinct. Keep doing this even if it makes you takes the road that hurts the most op. Remember, there is a reason why he choose to do this and unless he is honest about that with himself and you, how will you ever trust that he won't pick up right where they left off after he's conned you into some hysterical bonding?

Unfortunately, I'm talking from experience. Exact same scenario. But, making him go to his mums or you go to your families so you are not alone would be a way to show him you mean what you say. You haven't rolled over and just taken his bullshit. Like previous posters have said, it may just be the thing that makes him realise what he will loose.

X

While you are at rock bottom and he is apparently doing all he can to save your relationship, definitely do as precious poster recommended and google how to restore WhatsApp messages. If he is unwilling to give you access, you have your answer. How can you possible make an informed decision without having all relevant information and now if his last chance to be completely honest. Obviously your call - good luck

Second the book recommendation.

On top of it all he is being incredibly stupid to use Teams messaging in this way, nothing is private or secure when using company IT. He could be sued for sexual harassment.

I'm really sorry he has put you through this.

Not sure knowing any more information about their relationship will help you. You already know he does have some feelings for her - and was taking the time to get closer to her. Even if neither of them crossed the line, you know there's a chemistry there.

Since they don't work in the same team anymore, he should take space from this 'friendship' till he's sorted things with you. It's not a friendship - it's gotten far too intimate and deep sharey-sharey. Then have an open convo with him about how he's feeling about your marriage, and what he is getting from the friendship he can't get from you.

If you do want to save your marriage and re-build trust, you'll have to listen to his POV but make it a calm environment for him to honestly share. Without fear of you getting angry. Your anger is justified but your DH is prob the kind of man who just clams up in the face of it. He's massively messed up here but just staying angry or needing to monitor him won't actually stop him seeking solace outside the relationship. Or confiding in you. You need to get to root cause here. Or it could happen again with someone else.

Good luck

Hi OP. Please do not feel like you need to explain or justify anything to us. This is entirely your business and as others have said it will take a while for you to process everything. Now, I’m really not trying to be negative here but I just want to say, from bitter experience a few things that you should be aware of
It’s no proof either way from the messages you can see. Messages can be coded, deliberately worded, etc etc. Just because they don’t mention lusting after each other etc. doesnt mean that’s not the case
Even if he’s been a stupid fool and she wasn’t interested , he still lied to you. He took the deliberate decision to deceive you in order to deepens relationship with another woman. That’s the betrayal
They will still have to work together. How do you feel about that ? How will you handle it?
Watch out for him being very sorry over the next couple of weeks, but then behaving as if you should be over it by now and he deserves a gold medal for being so sorry
Don’t , in your natural rush to get over this painful time, make any rash decisions.
Put your own needs first and don’t apologise for them. So if for example, you want to ask him more questions, do it. But don’t torture yourself because you know he will minimise the truth.
I wish you the very best OP

I had an EA. We mailed from our work email addresses but the messages sent from work were borderline flirty at most. At night, we emailed more deep meaning stuff including our feelings.

During this time, his girlfriend who I knew nothing about became pregnant and moved into his house.
The baby was burn before I found out. I was devastated as I thought I was in love with him. He kept up the EA throughout getting together with her, her pregnancy, moving in together.

How did I find out? I received a very meek email to say his girlfriend had discovered his emails and had given him an ultimatum. He said he did not love her, she wasn’t his type (whatever that meant) but she had threatened to take their child. I was devastated. I stopped contacting him. That was many years ago. I still receive infrequent mails from him, usually trying to invoke a memory. He has a secret email address that he sends these from. I don’t know why he told me that, presumably so I would never reply to his personal one. I feel sorry for his partner. But... she knew what he was like when she decided to stay although I also completely see her reasons for staying. Mostly I feel sorry for her. I doubt I was the only one.

He was the type of man who claimed he was shy, useless with women, a loner. He made fools out of all of us.

I think you need to retrieve the emails he deleted. Otherwise assume he did confess to having feelings for her. And make your decision based on that instead of half truths.

I wouldn't be able to trust him again who knows how far they would have taken by now if the covid guidelines weren't in place ? Or how far along it would have progressed if you hadn't discovered it ? Did you open his present from her yet

I'm afaid my trust would be gone too.

Christ, they are basically at the early stages of dating. Pair of shits!!

Sorry op

The only right thing he could ever have done here, OP, is not do any of this in the first place. He KNEW it would hurt/upset you, but he went ahead and did it anyway. The excitement won out. The second best 'right thing' he could have done is tell you everything from the start, as it unfolded - and if you'd been uncomfortable with it then he should have put you first and cancelled the meet. Seems like she's been on his mind too much.
I'm so sorry... this must be horrid for you.

I hate to say it, but the relationship will continue if they still work together. Been there, read the book, worn the T shirt. It will all be just that little bit more exciting and forbidden now. It will ramp up again and if they haven’t already shagged (which I’m sure they have), they certainly will in the future. Sad but true.

That's the problem now op.

He goes back to work or goes anywhere and you will be on tenterhooks till he gets back, horrible for you and utterly natural beacause you won't feel safe or secure anymore, maybe in the future you will be.

Another thing is now they have a shared offence together like partners in crime where you become the outsider and as a previous poster said, makes it even more daring and exiting.

Speaking to her partner may help end this infatuation, or it could end with him getting his face punched in.

Problem is that he's at work with her and this is going to eat away at you .

He'll be on his best behaviour at work ... and then he'll revert back to type . The reason for this ... he hasn't shown any remorse , if he was truly horrified by his actions he would have opened up immediately.

You only have to read the posts where people have stayed together and regretted it because their partners have slipped into their old ways , the poster is constantly thinking about it and wondering if they're doing it again and this becomes exhausting.

You should have at least let him go to his mums ... to give yourself space , sit with the uncomfortable feelings and realise that you are strong enough to be by yourself if that is what you decide . sounds like you are trauma bonding with him .

Pizza, I hope you are able to retrieve that chunk of emails from September-present that H has concealed by deleting. I’d also try to retrieve anything deleted from WhatsApp, etc. You need to have as complete a picture as possible.

This does sound like the beginnings of an EA. The messages you saw suggest that a Rescuer/Damsel dynamic plays a part in their attraction. A is confiding about her bf and insecurity issues and H is boosting her. Her coy remarks serve to elicit more compliments from him. Of course his ego is also being massaged. Many emotional and physical affairs begin with white knighting.

To reach this point of betrayal, H would have repeatedly given himself permission to cross the line bit by bit, and you’ve seen some of that. There will be other examples in the deleted material. They likely have been spending 1:1 time together during lunch and breaks.

Every time he channeled his emotional energy, time and attention into A, he was creating distance between the two of you. He was marginalizing you. This will likely continue because his character flaws are still present and he has been unremorseful and uncooperative. Although providing open access to devices is standard for infidelity recovery, you are already predicting that he will continue deleting if you ask for his phone for reassurance.

I think he’s a bad bet.

Don't make the same mistake I did OP. I've made myself and my H miserable for 2.5 yrs now, by not taking a firm stance, early, one way or another.

His behavior is really hurtful OP, and I believe you have every right to tell him that you will not be a participant in whatever this is. A marriage is between two people and built on loyalty and trust. Since he has apparently decided those values no longer apply to him, you have every right to remove yourself from the situation.

The way I see it, your other option is to decide you are not going to play "pick me", marriage police, or angry shrew. You have voiced your displeasure, and will now go about your business trusting that if there's something you need to know, you'll find out w/o driving yourself and him nuts about it.

I picked the worst option which marriage police/angry shrew, and now we're both stuck in a sad, vicious, joyless cycle. I would have been much better off with a no tolerance stance, or getting on with my life and trusting the universe.

These people shaming you, for having expectations of loyalty and fidelity, know nothing about love. A man who can watch you suffer like this, and still continue the behavior does not love you. Tell him you decline to accept this.

I agree it sounds like an potential emotional affair but appears OP has found it right at its beginning stages.

OP if I was you, I have him text or phone her when you are there to tell this OW that their chats were inappropriate and he be keeping their relationship professional. I would also want him to get a new job. That's what I would do. Good luck OP.

Today is our anniversary. I haven't got him so much as a card which he knows (I was going to go shopping at the weekend but obviously things got in the way if that).

We're both off work but still have work going on in the house so can't go anywhere. The atmosphere is just off. Yesterday evening we had another chat about things. He still maintains they are friends and that he's been clueless about their conversations being inappropriate. He insists that (although he now knows it was wrong) he was trying to spare me what he knew would make me worried and maybe upset because of my past but that it would be worry over nothing as they really are just friends. I am starting to believe that but still not quite and even so have told him in no uncertain terms that by lying to me he actually showed NO regard for my feelings and NO respect for me at all. He knows I'm not happy and I haven't allowed him to hug me or even touch me (he always goes in for a hug whenever I'm irritated with him or after a little argument - to him it's a sign that we're okay). I slept terribly last night and I've had a dodgy tummy ever since this all started to come out. I've lost 4lbs in 3 days (a small perk i suppose (sarcasm obviously))

He is saying what he needs to say. Just remember that. He would rather you were none the wiser. He planned for you to never know.

Did he get you a present?

Well there's a contradiction in what he's saying : on the one hand he didn't know the conversations were inappropriate yet he withheld information about their friendship ?

Of course he knew it was wrong , that's why he didn't tell you ... he is still not accepting any blame .

They were having conversations that he knew were inappropriate.
They bought each other personal gifts .
They saw each other separately using the guise of other people being there , knowing it was wrong .
They've been flirting with one another via messages.
They went to see the lights , like they were on a date .

How are all these things you're fault ?

Any person observing these would think these two are dating !

I would get rid ... he really is a piece of work , trying to convince you , you made him do this .

Rightly or wrongly I messaged the girl (nicely). She confirmed what he had told me - he actually met her boyfriend on the day (I don't think I've put that on here before). She's hidden nothing about the day from her boyfriend.

You've been with this man for 8 years. The previous relationship in which you were cheated on was such a long time ago, I highly doubt your feelings about that factored into his consciousness. That he didn't tell you because of your 'history' is a load of bull. He didn't tell you because he knew what he was doing was wrong. If this was a 100% innocent meet-up he would have just said. Somewhere along the line, he will have admitted to himself that the situation was dodgy and decided to lie.

@morgan12 yes he's just given me a card, flowers and a massive box of my favourite chocolates. I haven't even mustered up a thanks. Last night we managed to actually have a bit of a laugh, this morning I'm back to being sad

@pizzaandcats

Did your husband expect to meet the boyfriend?

So the boyfriend was there on the day of the lunch? Or did he just pick her up afterwards or something?

OP ...do you have secret meetings with your friends that you lie about? If you bought one a present would you lie to him to cover up what it was? Do you hide their messages from him? Of course not. She is not a friend.

And that’s the worrying bit for me..In insisting they are friends he’s paving the way for you to expect some ongoing connection between the two of them.