DD told teachers DH and I am going to get divorced

[Scandimama]

Feel like the worst mum on earth right now. Just had a parent teacher conference (virtual of course) and teachers told us that DD (6 yrs) told them this week that her parents were arguing so loud that she could not hear the TV (it was while she and little brother 4 yes old were watching TV) and that we are going to get divorced and that she didn’t mind that. She said apparently that is getting divorced is fine and she just wants us to stop fighting. I think she partly thinks like that because my sister is divorced and she’s used to witnessing her cousins living between two homes. It was beyond embarrassing. I just wanted to die when the teachers told us. I told them that we’ve been having a hard time recently but have made up and told DD that we are not getting divorced.
I’ve threatened divorce many times, as our relationship is not good. DH and I are very different, I’d almost say incompatible. We fell in love, had kids after being together for just over 3 years, and I guess we only realised too late how different we are. We just disagree about a lot of basic things - like whether to buy a house or not, how kids should be raised, politics, cleaning standards, I want to be vegetarian and he loves meat, he wants the kids to do sleep w me and I want them in their own beds etc etc. We are from different cultures too and our family language is English, but we each speak our own language too. I just feel like I don’t know how to solve this. Feel like it’s so hard for us to get on and it’s now damaging the kids, but if we divorce DH says he’d leave the country as there’s no prospects for him here and the kids would miss their dad terribly. He’s a good dad. I’m sure if we were divorced he’d be awful to me the whole time and make my life difficult. And being a single mum seems almost Impossible, financially and practically with my current job and life situation. I’ve suggested couples therapy to DH a million times but he refuses. Any advice or comfort?

Please argue when your kids are at school or something

Even when you don't think they’re listening or are occupied with something else, they’re listening.

I don't remember anything as a child, until my teens apart from constant arguing. I never remember the days out, going places, the nice things, just the constant arguing.

What has HE agreed to do?

He sent you fuck you messages, has threatened to damage and punish your small children and bullied you yet you've "promised...."

Oh dear.

Your situation sounds so similar to mine. I bet we're in the same country with the most difficult language to learn 😜
It's OK to divorce, I also have not ruled that out for myself, but since we both convinced our dhs to move with us, we have the extra responsibility to try and make decisions that are OK for everyone involved. Him leaving the country and being estranged from the children would be the worst case scenario. With a calm head and willingness to find solutions you might come up with something that works for all even if the marriage would not survive. I think a lot of the hurtful things he's saying are rooted in fear, so try not to focus on them so much.

@RayOfSunshine2013 thanks for sharing that with me. It’s an important reminder. I guess I sometimes forget how much they listen and understand. We really need to shape up and control ourselves if we are to stay together. Sorry that you had to go through that. That sounds awful. I hope there’s still time for my husband and I to turn things around.

Op he spounds like a horrible bully, who makes you doubt yourself.
Take som quiet alone time this evening..bath maybe, door locked...

Remember the young woman you were before you met him, see how he has ground you down, be really honest with yourself. Then gather your strength and look at your opytions

Don’t argue in front of your children and not expect them to tell someone they trust, such as their teacher/grandparents. I had a friend that was always threatening to divorce her husband, in the end he decided enough was enough & left her, she was devastated, so be careful of making threats.

Grow up and stop arguing and fighting in front of your kids.

@NoJose yes, that one! The worst country In the world for expats 😜😢and it really is.
I think you’re right, it’s really tough for him here and sometimes I forget. I hope you’ll manage too, I keep meeting people who moved here together and then divorced, as it’s just to tough for the non-native partner.

@dozer he has agreed to listen to me
More and control his temper.

@SunshineCake I know it’s not
Promising : ( part of me wants it all to end but I think there’s still to big a part of me that wants to keep trying. This school situation is a real wake up call for us both. I believe that it can be an instigator for change. But if we fall back into the same pattern, we will have to split

If the school call is a catalyst for both of you to make a united effort, it is possible that each of you seeing the other trying to meet them halfway can create momentum. Regain the trust in each other that your feelings and opinions will be respected and a mutual path found, if both of you see this in each other all those points of friction will be less a trigger for aggravation and more a trigger for conversation and it could improve. People with different approaches can parent together and be supportive to each other, but only if the listening is mutual. Maybe this could happen now you've both had a wake up call. Who knows maybe this could be a turning point.
I hope you find a way to care for each other and use give and take better than has become the norm.

If you only feel close to friends in London and he has no realistic chance of finding stable employment in your country due to the industry and language issues, would you consider separating but both going back to the UK (or separating in the UK if it financially makes more sense to you)?

This way it sounds like there's a very poor chance of your DC's father staying in the same country as them, for some pretty good reasons, and that's a shame for them and doesn't seem fair if he is a decent dad when he's not so angry about the end of a relationship (if he's always been this bad to you then he's not a decent dad and they'll probably be better off anyway). I lived for a time in my DH's home country and if we'd split up I could never have stayed, practically and legally. It's ultimately about the kids' needs - and also about how, practically, splitting up after a year in your home country will sound so unfair to him, and you don't want to risk becoming the bad guy in their understanding of all this.

Why are you arguing like that in front of your kids? Everyone has arguments, but if you're arguing that intensely that your kids can't hear the TV, you need to argue somewhere that's not around them. It's a horrible experience for children to have parents selfishly arguing continuously like that in front of them. And sounds like your 6 year old has overheard your threats to divorce.

@Scandimama it really isn't easy to start from zero here. My dh and I have also had the divorce talk and even though he's been really awful to me, he's a good dad and I offered to help him set up a business here in case we separated so that he could stay and make a satisfactory life here for himself..
We are also still together and have reduced the conflicts by trying to relate to each other more like friends and stop expecting each other to change. It's working OK, but far from perfect.
Also, you said that you feel like you're incompatible and have cultural differences.. I think it's worth remembering that you're part of an international family, and things will be and can be done differently from the main culture. As long as its not harming the children, why not try relax your way of doing things and let him have his way. It's an asset to be a part of a family like this, and your dh will always be a bit different from the rest. Maybe that's why you fell in love with him in the first place? I think on our country there are a lot of unwritten rules of how things 'should' be, but those things are impossible for a foreigner to know or even to accept. And frankly some things here should be shaken up a bit. It's not all perfect..

@OverTheRubicon it would be really hard for me to find employment back in the UK at this stage. And even his industry is suffering badly under Covid in the UK. Not to mention Brexit which means us returning wouldn’t be that simple, as we stupidly didn’t apply for permanent residence or citizenship before leaving, although we were qualified. DH is not British. He has a very nomadic background since teenage years and this is the 6th country he lives in, he has two citizenships and none of them are British or this country. All of this obviously contributes to our problems. His parents are also divorced and living in two different counties and both have mental health issues and one of them financial issues too. It’s not easy.

I think I need to be very patient and understanding w him due to all his challenges, but I don’t always manage, as I have my own baggage, too much and too personal to go into here, but it’s issues that means I’m not always as stable as I want to be. I’m having therapy for this and it does help somewhat.

@Rybvita I know this is just the internet and an anonymous forum, but it feels really Hercules when people keep pointing out that we shouldn’t argue in front of the kids and how bad that is. I think even from
My first post, it was pretty clear I feel awful about having done it. When people make mistakes like that there’s usually a reason for it, be it mental health issues or other things. That by no
Means makes it acceptable as we should as parents always put the children first, but continuing to point it out is really hurtful. Be kind, most people are fighting battles you know nothing about.

@NoJose I think you’re right. Have also thought that trying to relate to each other more like friends should work. We are so similar it’s uncanny, as I’ve also just helped DH set up his own business 😂 it’s thought to be a mixed family who has moved around a lot, and I think sometimes we need to give ourselves make credit for that and cut ourselves some slack. When things like religion, tradition, food and gender roles are constantly up for debate, it’s hard. Marriage and family life can be hard under “normal” circumstances, but these things add an extra layer of complexity. The amount of fights we have just because of things that are lost in translation - him thinking baking soda is the same as baking powder, or that the English word for shelf is the same as closet, so making it impossible for me to eg find out passports etc etc. Sometimes I don’t know whether I should laugh or cry. But I try to remind myself that our kids growing up trilingual and with such a wide horizon is an asset. If only we can stop shouting and arguing in front of them. I truly believe yesterday’s call can help to change things. I keep reminding myself that the kids will grow up and how I want them
To remember their childhood. Not as mum and dad fighting the whole time and a bad atmosphere in the house.

@Scandimama

I've just caught up on the whole thread since I posted yesterday.

I absolutely get why you've pulled back on ending things. I was that soldier.

When I read this thought, my heart sinks:

we have agreed to start out with trying to never, ever, ever argue in front of the kids again.

Without counselling as a couple, with both parties committed, I'm sorry to say, this stands zero chance.

I know you both mean it. Now. But the destructive relationship patterns that are ingrained, are there too long to be able to say, 'oh we'll just stop arguing so'. Logic will go out the window when frustrations rise & anger intrudes.

Also, his treatment of you is shocking. I'm struggling to see any respect from him, or any care for you, his spouse. He seems to blame you entirely, a common scenario.

I'd really really urge you to reconsider. You responded from a moment of clarity when you asked him to leave.

I know his situation is difficult. But he's an adult. He'll have to make his own path, and decide how he wants to be there for his children.

If not, you could try counselling. In fact, counselling to end the marriage some way amicably might be useful.

I wish you luck & strength 💐

You are clearly staying together because you’re too scared to split, rather than because there’s any kind of happy ever after on the cards.

@EarringsandLipstick 'When I read this thought, my heart sinks:

^^we have agreed to start out with trying to never, ever, ever argue in front of the kids again.'

My heart sank too. I've been there Scandimum. The moment of clarity followed by him convincing me it's all my fault and if I only tried harder it would all be OK, and me promising to try. Sometimes what you're trying so hard to hold onto is already gone.

The employment situation makes it more complex. If you can manage to maintain the ceasefire for a bit that's what I'd be looking at as a priority. Is there a different related field he could seek employment in or something similar he could retrain in?
If things don't work out would separating under one roof while he works to find more stable employment or retrain be an option?

I can understand those who
See little hope in my situation for
My previous posts. However, as with everything, there’s more than one side to any story, and I wrote the first posts in moments of huge upset. I think DH and I have very serious issues, and they’re rooted in our individual baggage as well as some unhealthy patterns we have developed. For me though, it’s too soon to give up. I do fee real love for him, although it may not have sounded like it at first. And we have kids. For me the right thing is to try more and harder. DH has has already come a long way. He used to have a real alcohol problem, and he’s been sober now for 6 months. He used to smoke pot as wel and has quite that too. All that while adjusting to being in a new country where he has no family or friends expect for my family and friends,
Doesn’t speak the language and has been partly unemployed due to Covid. Not forgetting we relocated in my incentive and I in fact promised him before we left the UK that we’d only stay in this country for 3-4 years and then would move on, and now I’m already starting to try to make him see reason that we should stay here for good, or at least for longer, as our kids are settled now in school and kindergarten, and I enjoy being near my family and in my na I’ve culture. All which is pretty selfish of me, tbh. So I think I need to consider all this, and haven’t shared with you any of this, neither have I shared any of my serious short comings, and believe me, I’m not an easy person. I’m not saying that as a down on myself downtrodden woman, but as a matter of self insight, having had therapy as well as relationships in the past that broke down mainly due to my issues. The good news in that is that, as part of the problem is me, I can work on that. He’s very far from perfect too, and he needs to work on that. In the last 3 days we haven’t had one fight and have generally reached some level of peace and agreement. I feel that the school call made us both feel unbelievably ashamed, and that it can be a real catalyst for change. DH has low even agreed to therapy. So I’m hopeful, and just working on healing the hurt we have caused our children, especially our daughter.

Your poor kids.

Blaming your kids for your cowardice and selfishness is shameful.

At least take responsibility for your choices instead of claiming you're ruining their lives "for their sake".

You're doing this for yourself, not them.

What? This is a very strange comment. Why would doing my best to make my marriage work so my kids can have both their parents in their life, be a cowardly and selfish thing to do? I feel some people on This that’s are projecting a bit

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read the thread and my post and make a comment. I can understand why some people would conclude like this based on their personal experiences which I’m sure are different than mine.

You know, it is possible for two people to overcome crisis and disagreements and improve their marriage again. Often It doesn’t work, but sometimes it does. If a person still has hope, and see real improvement, would it not be foolish to give up, just because there is a risk that trying to improve things will not work out?

I’m afraid thinking that not screaming at each in front of your innocent children for 3 days is a bad sign. That is really not an achievement and if you think it is things must have been horrific for your children. My parents have a happy healthy relationship and I can count on one hand the number of arguments I witnessed from 0 to 35 years old. You both sound very selfish and putting yourselves before your children who really need you both to grow up, realise your marriage is a disaster, separate and co-parent your children to avoid damaging them any more than you already have.

I think if your husband shares your willingness to improve things it is definitely worth a go op. Conflict can be caused by many things. If the cause is an immovable feature then yes, it's not going to go away. But if it is circumstantial and both parties can rethink their attitude and resolve the issues then I'm sure the children would rather have their parents long term even if temporary period of conflict is endured.
Only hindsight will tell. Good luck op