SUPPORT THREAD FOR THE PARTNERS OF ADDICTS

[lemonstartree]

having read all the posts on princesshobnob's thraet It struck me (prob because I am one of them) how may women are living with addicts/abusive men (does one cause the other etc etc!)

thought maybe we could do with our own support thread.

I have recently kicked out my cannabis head husband. It has been hard, but not as hard as livig with his dope smoking and verbal abuse (to me) and physical abuse of the children.

So much of what other women wrote reasonated with me; the wanting another chance; the lying; the erratic behaviour; the blaming me (you) for their problems; the financial mess; the wanting sex when high - when tbh you hate them and have never wanted it less; the messing with your head until you think its YOU with the problem.

I am a bit further on than some of you - its 2 months since my marriage ended,
but my H says he has now stopped smoking cannabis, he has found a job and starts this week and he is NOW thnking hes 'done enough' to be given a second (read 50TH) chance.
I am expecting trouble whan I make it clear that some thngs cannot be repaired however Sorry you are that they are broken....

oh GUP Im so sorry. Predictable isnt it though, there is wine in the house so he must drink it.....

why can you not stay in the house with the chidren and him go elsewhere ?

you know sometimes just sometimes the shock of losing EVERYTHING is the wake up call that the addict needs

whilst he is still living with you and being enabled (how ever hard you try to avoid it)he dosnt have to face his drinking......homeless adn alone he mIGHT wake up to himsllf

what ever the future for me and my h I do honestly think now that kicking him out was the best thing I could have done for HIM - as he has finally finaly realised that his drug habit was destroying his and our lives.... it was also the right thing for the dcs and me (which is why I did it) but he has gone back to work, is attending NA and is clean. he is much nicer for it and has some chance of a normal life even if it is not with me

try to keep him away - take it one day at a time......

good luck

The house is in my name, so he will leave but he knows people all around here, and he used to share with the guy across the road, so more often than not he ends up back there when I throw him out. I wanted to move to get away from him as even when he's not here he's on my doorstep and in my face all the time. Its a council house so the only hope of me doing this is via a mutual exchange, which is what I was trying to do.
Just had a row (its all my fault again for being horrible to him last night !)and he hung up on me so I sent him a text saying he needs to wake up to himself and stop blaming everyone else for the fact that he's a lowlife alcoholic, a liar and a waste of space.
No reply yet!

Stick to your guns Princesshobnob - it must be so hard when he's being all affectionate and loving but this is just a tactic to wear your defences down.

Lemon - thanks for the advice. I'm going to try really hard not to have any contact with him now. I've double bolted the door and switched off my mobile. I wish I could go away with the dc somewhere, but why should I be driven out of my home and uproot them. I just have to sit tight and keep going (till they go to bed at least, then I'll probably cry! [SAD]

Hi GUP

Not really surprised to see he drank the contents of the wine box - he will take any opportunity or use any excuse (I see he blamed you again for being horrid to him; he's being pathetic) to drink. He is following all the typical patterns of alcoholic behaviours.

His primary relationship first and foremost is with drink. Everything else comes a dim and distant second, even if you figure on his radar which I doubt very much. He sees you primarily as his enabler.

I would have to agree with Lemonstartree - you being in his life in any shape or form enables him. You need to cut all ties as of now because you will all be dragged down with him.

There are no guarantees with alcoholics - they may end up losing everything and yet may still continue to drink. With regards to your good self though that's his choice and ultimately he is not your responsibility. You are only answerable to your children and your own self at the end of the day.

Don't just cry - get both serious and angry with him and show him you are being totally serious. Why should you have to move?.

I'd seriously now consider seeking legal advice in order to stop him contacting you directly.

GUP - sorry he has let you down again - only an alcoholic can justify going to the shop for juice, find none and come back with wine. but hey maybe the supermarkets by you are different!!

my dh bought bottles and bottles of juice "for DS" as this is what he mixed the vodka in. he would come up the stairs in the morning with a glass of water for me, bottle of milk for ds and pint of orange juice - i was VERY blind.

what suprises me is how openly your DH drinks - he isnt even trying to hide buying and drinking the wine. it was all very secret in our house and first i knew of the problem was when it had spiralled completely out of control. even after i knew what was happening he would swear blind he was sober even when he was falling down drunk.

what do you say and do when he is drunk - i think i did all the wrong things - ie telling him he was a drunk waste of space etc. i wish now i had followed secret squirrels advice and risen above it or at least appeared to.

Does he have any intention of cutting down/stopping drinking? this after the promises to engage with the GP.

sending you hugs. xx

Thanks Mickey. PMSL about the supermarkets down here!!
He really doesn't think he's got a problem. It's me apparently. I really thought we'd made a breakthrough when he went to relate and the gp, but I was stupid. It was all just to shut me up and get his foot back in the door.
He says he doesn't have a problem, his parents are drinkers as are all his family to varying degrees and "all builders drink, most of my work is sorted out in the pub!". He doesn't hide it because he thinks he is fine and I'm the one with the hang ups about drink because of my dad. All his mates drink like him and none of their wives complain, so therefore its me. I also nag and moan so much I'd drive any man to drink!
And so it goes on and on and on.
At least when they hide it they must know deep down that its not right, and its a problem, but he's so arrogant that he thinks its the rest of the world who have the problem.
Grrrrr I bloody hate him tonight.
Phew! Sorry for ranting at you - I do feel better now though

Oh Ive been there too....

its all your problem, everybody does it, everyone in the world apart from you does drugs. you are such a prude, noone elses wife complains etc etc etc.......

thing is NOT everyone does it and if they DO for ost of them it controlled. My H was both open and very very secretive about his cannabis use; open that he smoked a 'little' bit and very deceitful about how much, how often and the extent of his need for it.

for the last year before we split we went to marriage guidence and I actually stopped critisising him for his dope use; partly because it made absolutely no difference to how much he used, partly because I was trying to save my marriage but mainly because I believed his sht about how he had it well under control etc etc.... I didn't realise how addicted and fcked up he was.

its very peaceful here now without that stress xx

fwiw my h said he always knew deep down it was not ok and that is why he was so defensive....

stupid git

FWIW too I had these comments; -

"it's not my problem you had a father with a drink problem"

2You made me drink becaus you're such a bitch"

"What's wrong with having a pint in the park on a sunny day? "

and in response to the kids' nursery calling me about their concerns about smelling drink on his breath when picking up the dcs;

"you're all paranoid, what's wrong with a man having a pint at lunchtime?"

Gup I understand you love him. I went to Relate last night and said the same and my counsellor suggested that I start to question a love that causes me so much pain which got me thinking. Maybe you need to question your love for him. I'm sad that my relationship with dp is over but I would be at the end of any relationship. In spite of that sadness, there really is a massive sense of relief at not having that burning anger and frustration that you have when you realise that the person you're living with is drinking again.

for all my sadness at ending it, my house is a lot happier and relaxed. Could you have had friends around that afternoon when he had drunk the wine? I had so many incidences where friends would come and I would feel embarrassed because ex dp was drunk. Now I love having unexpected visitors - and I can open a bottle of wine and enjoy it without that sick feling as he gulps it down and goes off to buy another and another. One drink is too much for an alcoholic.

Anyway, I'm rambling again but today I feel that there is life without all this crap - only problem is is took me 15 years to realise it - don't let it take you that long. I'm sad to think that you only talk to your mum about him. I did this too. Now I think that by keeping it quiet I was enabling him to carry on and somehow letting him believe that it was acceptable to behave like he did. it feels so good to tell people that you are living through this.

How is everyone today?

Hi everyone,

I'm fine, hope you all are too.

Well my DH is back after the weekend away, and was doing his damndest to wind me up last night - which didn't work because I'd had a weekend off to recharge my batteries, and was impervious to it. Then when that didn't work he was 'normal'. It's tiring but he is the one that is finding it harder as I am not enabling him by reacting (by making him feel even more shit thus giving him the ok to drink even more!).

The secrecy thing - well for me, everyone knows about the fact that he is seriously ill because of the drinking. They don't need to know all the gory details, but with it out in the open, it makes my life so much easier. I think that if it is kept hidden then you are really going to struggle, and that is another way of enabling the drinker. Most people react in a completely different way to how you think they will - it isn't as shaming as you think it is going to be.

So as a result, they are looking out for any changes in DD at the nursery, and if I need to leave work suddenly, everyone understands and supports me. I am very lucky.

GUP - Attila is right, please please don't cry and feel that it is all completely hopeless. He has crossed that line. You need to 'say what you mean and mean what you say'. Practice it first, keep it short, precise and to the point. Why the hell should you be the one to move? Have you called Al Anon yet?

ZK & Attila are living proof that it can be done.

GUP, sending you lots of hugs & support - we all are! SS x

GUP hope you are ok today.

I would agree with ZK about the keeping quiet. I think we all do it, in some way we fel ashamed of their behaviour - and I have so often been embarrassed by by H's behaviour when he was stoned (actually he was stoned almost all the time and I was embarrassed by his behavious pretty much all the time.........) The relief in finally being honest about what has been going on is huge ...........

GUP I bet all his mates do NOT drink like him.they may indeed drink more than they 'should' but an alcoholic cannot stop nor control nor limit his/her drinking and there is a HUGE difference.

we are here to support you. big hugs xxx

Thanks ladies! I had a crap night last night. Ds1 has a horrible cough and kept waking up, ds2 needed a wee 3 times and felt the need to tell me about it and we had one bad dream too. Neither of them would get up this morning and how we got to school, childminder and work on time is nothing short of a miracle!
Hence this is the first time I've even thought about dp today. His Dad came round last night, he is worried about him, which is not fair as he is in his 70's and doesn't need it. He (dp) knocked on the door later and I just ignored it.
I'm trying to avoid all contact (again!) as I need some space to get my head straight. I also desperately need some sleep, I'm exhausted!
Re the secrecy, I just can't face telling people, I know its not my fault, but I hate having to go over it, and much as I love my friends, none of them are familiar with this situation. They all have normal nice husbands who don't drink much.
Anyway better go and do some work to keep myself awake.
Hope everyone is OK and sorry for prattling on.

GUP - don't be sorry for 'prattling on', that is what we are here for!

DP is manipulating the situation for all it's worth - LST is right, don't fall for it. Of course everyone drinks as much as he does (NOT!)

Hang on a minute, it isn't fair on you either to be the only one struggling with this.

Does you DP's dad know what is going on? That would be a start, just to say that alcohol is making DP ill...the friends only need to know on a 'need to know' basis. If they ask where DP is, for example, just say he is ill because of alcohol. It is up to you how much more you say about it.

Please don't be thinking that 'all my friends have nice normal lives' - well what is normal? I'm sure that some of them will be having problems of their own.

I think you will find that your friends already have an inkling of what is going on, no matter how much you think you have it under wraps. Most of my friends were certainly aware - because the outrageous behaviour was exacerbated by the birth of DD.

Hi GUP,

First off you are not prattling on!!.

What was your Dad's response, was he at all helpful?. I note from one of your previous posts that your partner comes from a family of drinkers.

His "excuses" for drinking are just that, excuses and poor ones at that. It also sounds like the standard type of excuses these people use to justify their drinking and thus continue drinking, infact he could be reciting from a time honoured script.

I think you are wanting to keep this all quiet because of a sense of shame on your part. Your sense of shame is misplaced. It is not your fault he is like this, he made a conscious choice. Please seriously consider talking to an outside person in real life, you need to get this situation out in the open. Being on here is helpful but you need real life support too.

Hello everyone,

I'm sorry to hear you've been having such a tough time GUP, but well done for making him leave, at least for now, so you get a break.

Have you called al anon? Do you have any local family support groups or counselling available? I'm still the only one at the family group therapy at the local drug centre so I'm getting personal counselling, and for free, and it's great to get some support. You're suffering from his choices, so try and get help from any source available, to help you be strong enough to make your life what you want.

Atilla, can I ask if you've had personal experience of someone close to you with alcoholism? If not what is your background? I sometimes find your posts hard to relate to because they seem rather detached and dictatorial. I don't think I've ever read any posts that you've given away anything about yourself.

Well I've seen it (and seen several of my friends go through abusive relationships) and that is all you need to know. I thus try and help, am sorry if you find any posts of mine dictatorial because they are not meant to be written thus.

Thank you for listening everyone.
His Dad was a drinker when he was young apparently, but he hardly drinks now. His mum is a secret scotch drinker so we don't see a lot of her.
His Dad knows the whole situation and feels bad because every time he tries to talk to him Dp blames him for screwing him up as a child. Its everyone else's fault.
I have to agree with Kokeshi to a point but whatever form it comes in Attilla's advice is generally spot on and I don't know about the others on here but I do find it helpful. I don't always take it mind you, but hey!
(Sorry to talk about you while your not here Attilla!!)

Atilla, likewise, have you actually ever been to Al-anon? I find the tone of your posts quite hostile to the still suffering alcoholic to be honest. Al-anon subscribes to the idea - just like Alcoholics Anonymous - that we can all find a solution to our problems following a 12 step programme of recovery. This very much depends on looking inward seeing our own part in situations, and not necessarily casting all the blame on others.

The way that AA and al-anon works is by sharing personal experiences in order that others can identify. Not by telling people how it is, or indeed trying to fix them.

This thread moves way too fast for me, so bear with me! I found the insults posts from last Friday very reassuring, it's like the 'selfish' comment I mentioned earlier, I have heard every English swear words applied to me. One day I wrote everything down in alphabetical order and I can actually fill the alphabet, how pathetic.

My situation is slightly different because, although we still live together, alkie di**head and DS, I've separated myself mentally for weeks now, so the insults just go over my head. I have been waiting forever (well, about 3 months) to have enough money to buy him out. The next few weeks are going to be stressful, when I can at last show my cards and tell him to FO out of my life.

He has serious debts and has apparently finally run out of money, so he says because he still comes home with his pack of 4 and bottle of wine every evening. However he is drinking a lot less and even rediscovering a sense of humour. I am so happy that I do not have any feelings for him anymore because I could very well be floundering with my plan right now.

Hugs and support to all of you.

"quite hostile to the still suffering alcoholic"

That's an intereting point kokeshi.

You will have seen that I have lived with an alcoholic and have spent a long time dealing with the resultant behaviour. Even though I am separated from him it continues as do my own feelings of confusion and love/hate/anger etc etc .

Isn't this our dilemma? If we help them we are enabling them and if we don't we are not aiding them in their suffering.

FWIW I feel very hostile to "my" alcoholic and why shouldn't I ? I find the insinuation that we should accept some blame for their drinking hard to accept.
Look at the shit any/all of us on this thread have put up with.

I don't intend to be hostile at all - if you are an alcohlic or drink-dependent(is there a difference?) I would love to hear what you think becaseu from my position I and my dcs have proven to be less of an attractive proposition to exdp than alcohol.

And that hurts and makes me angry.

I would like to try to understand this whole wretched business better from the perspective of an alcoholic.

I would be very sad if Attila were to stop posting - I don't think her posts are at all dictatorial and a lot of what she says makes sense to me.

GUP - enjoy the space you have at the moment and heres hoping you get a better nights sleep tonight!! my ds is also coughing and sneezing at the minute. thank god for calpol!!

glad the counselling is going well princess. any luck on persuading him to go?

zookeeper - you said earlier that your two year old has picked up on the problem. my 2 year old (only just turned 2) said "my daddy booshed that door" to my dad the other day. booshed is what he says for kick. he was just chatting away and dropped it into the conversation. i was really shocked because when he broke the door ds was in bed. goes to show he has taken in much more than i thought.

ss - how is your little one doing through all this? you have so much on your plate but it sounds like work/nursery are helpful. nobody at my work knows so i have just had to keep it all in!!!

my dh is still doing well. fingers crossed it continues.

welcome kokeshi. hope you stay and chat for a while.
xx
xx

Hi Kokeshi,

Re your comment on AA and al-anon:-
"This very much depends on looking inward seeing our own part in situations, and not necessarily casting all the blame on others".

I would certainly agree with this. An alcoholic though has to want to deal with their drink problem and get to such a stage where they are thus more receptive to such valuable help.

Its not just the alcoholic who is affected by alcoholism; its all the people around them as well. I respond to what they are writing. I'm only responding how I see it (as an outsider).

There is a world of difference between alcoholics who know they have a problem and actively want to do something to address it (and I take my hat off to such people) and those who do not want to see they have such issues (denial is a powerful force) and thus carry on regardless. I do have a degree of sympathy for alcoholics because they got to where they are at for many reasons. However, their actions often impact badly on those around them.

I've certainly never advocated trying to fix an alcoholic on these pages because they have to want to help their own selves; they cannot do this for another. A person cannot act as someone's rescuer or saviour in a relationship and you cannot save someone who does not want to be saved.

Anyway I'm bunged up with cold and am off to find some more tissues!.

I read ALL comments with interest and only wish to help. I will keep posting on this thread for as long as others wish me to.

can i also say that although i have not always followed the advice as it is often easier said than done, i do like hearing atilla's point of view. ML

I think Atilla has a very black and white view and having no personal experience (unless I'm wrong), seems to me that she/he simplfies the dynamics involved in these relationships.

How many of you go to Al-Anon? The purpose of the felloship is not for you to accept blame for your partners alcoholism, but find a way that you can reach a happy and contented life despite it, and a deeper understanding of the illness itself.

Yes, it is an illness. The reason it's so difficult to have any sympathy for active alcoholics is because it affects families/loved ones just as much as, and if not more than, them alcoholics themselves.

I don't blame any of you for being angry at the way you're being treated, I had an alcoholic husband myself so I can see it from both sides. I am a recovering alcoholic and have been to both AA and al-anon and I know that harbouring resentments just made things worse.

With the greatest respect Atilla, although you can draw conclusions from an outsider point of view, you can never really understand what it's like to either be an alcoholic or the partner of one.

And yes, it does upset me slightly when I read those really vitriolic insults because I've put a lot of effort into my own recovery . I think people are making the mistake that we are alcoholic by choice. I know the pain and frustration involved, I went through it all with my H, whom unfortunately took his own life as a result of alcoholism.

I can't offer any particular insights into individual behaviour, but I think it's doing a disservice to tar everyone with the same brush.

I do wish you all well and hope you find some strength and hope with Al-Anon. It did wonders for me.