SUPPORT THREAD FOR THE PARTNERS OF ADDICTS

[lemonstartree]

having read all the posts on princesshobnob's thraet It struck me (prob because I am one of them) how may women are living with addicts/abusive men (does one cause the other etc etc!)

thought maybe we could do with our own support thread.

I have recently kicked out my cannabis head husband. It has been hard, but not as hard as livig with his dope smoking and verbal abuse (to me) and physical abuse of the children.

So much of what other women wrote reasonated with me; the wanting another chance; the lying; the erratic behaviour; the blaming me (you) for their problems; the financial mess; the wanting sex when high - when tbh you hate them and have never wanted it less; the messing with your head until you think its YOU with the problem.

I am a bit further on than some of you - its 2 months since my marriage ended,
but my H says he has now stopped smoking cannabis, he has found a job and starts this week and he is NOW thnking hes 'done enough' to be given a second (read 50TH) chance.
I am expecting trouble whan I make it clear that some thngs cannot be repaired however Sorry you are that they are broken....

Hello everyone, I hope you are all ok.

Princess - damn good idea, having a breather from the madness.

Someone once said to me that arguing with an alcoholic was like arguing with a Chinaman - they have absolutely no idea what you are saying to them, and you certainly can't get through to them, so it is pointless.

They will forget all about the daily living that normal people do, but will remember every little thing you shared with them in better times and use it against you. It is all done to make you react. I knew that when we did have rows (before Al Anon) they weren't 'normal' rows. He would bring up all sorts of things about me, my family, my friends. Then the next day he's be inviting them to stay!!

LST - please please don't be hard on yourself.

ALL alcoholics (and I bet the same applies to drug addicts as well!) have heat seeking missiles in their brains. They are All attracted to strong dependable types. Or they find those with low self esteem who they end up treating like a doormat.

I'm a nurse, was working all the extra shifts I could, maintaining everything, doing everything. Getting home after 9pm, starting to do all the things he couldn't be arsed to do or going to bed at 12pm for a nightshift because of all the shit to clear up....well I've stopped doing it on a daily basis. That is how he sees the consequences of his behaviour. It is starting to work in unexpected ways - he has started to cook again, and has taken it on himself to assemble a shoe rack without any prompting. Small steps but steps nevertheless. And yes, I do still love him....which is why I'm hanging in there for now.

I'm doing extra shifts because I'm going to go away with DD for 3 weeks end Feb/beg. March....not that he knows anything about it. Because I need a break too.

LST, I'm a bit behind you in the 'unnacceptable behaviour/crossing boundaries' table. I found Al Anon in time, whereas if I hadn't then I'd be where you are now, I'm sure.

We have only been married for 5 years (I met him when I was 39) and I often wonder what would've happened had we met 20 years ago. He is actively drinking, and being horrible sick every day. He has been admitted to hospital with severe kidney infection and has fallen down our spiral staircase, breaking his arm. He hasn't fitted as yet - though it is only a matter of time, I'm sure!

I have some serenity time this weekend, as I'm on Nights and they are both at his parents (hurrah!). I've been painting DD's bedroom and having a lovely life at the moment - well, counting my blessings which is easy to do away from the madness.

I'll try and write some more from work when it calms down though I'm Site Managing so I've probably cursed myself there!!

GUP - why don't you give the Al Anon a ring, because they have phonelines so you can talk. They will suggest ways to empower you.

Anyway, like you've just said, he is the one with the problem, so you should just tell him calmly that you are having a problem With His Drinking, therefore you are going to go to Al Anon. That is all you need to say, and that is all he needs to hear (though it has to be when he isn't in a blackout! )

Please call them (damn, I think they shut at 1630hrs).

I think I will when i get the chance (and pluck up the courage!)
SS you are so right and like Mickeylou I find it so hard to walk away from the insults and can never resist throwing a few of my own back at him. When he's at his worse I get told my family all hate me (because they told him ) I'm a crap mother, no wonder my ex left me, then if that doesn't get the desired affect he starts on about my dad (real sore point for me and definitely way below the belt). Its hard to take all this and not retaliate, which is why he does it so I end up being in the wrong too, then I have to apologise , they are so manipulative. If I could just learn to stay calm and not let him push my buttons I'm sure most of our rows could be avoided.

GUP

Make that call!.
They are there now (and will be until 10pm this evening).

Al-Anon Family Groups UK & Eire
61 Great Dover Street
London
SE1 4YF
Tel: 020 7403 0888 (Helpline 10am - 10pm, 365 days a year)

Email: [email protected]

Personally I would not tell him you are intending to contact Al-anon; its not his business to know this. Your primary concern now should be your own self as well as the children. Not him - he lost that particular privilege a long time ago.

Alcoholics as well as being in denial most of the time are also master maniupulators; they know all too well how to push the spouse's/partner's buttons. You play a role too in the merry go round of alcoholism and denial.

SS made an interesting comment in her post:-
"ALL alcoholics (and I bet the same applies to drug addicts as well!) have heat seeking missiles in their brains. They are All attracted to strong dependable types.

They need someone to look after them

"Or they find those with low self esteem who they end up treating like a doormat".
This is true also but I would also add that we learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents. If a person saw alcoholism in their childhood they are more likely to find an adult partner who is themselves alcoholic. The alcoholism becomes their normality. These people become super responsible for the alcoholic and thus the alcoholic never has to be resposible or face up to the consequences of their actions. Roles are played by both parties.

GUP - you may need to do the "broken record" technique on him i.e repeating the same phrase calmly over and over till he gets the message.

I sincerely hope your children are not hearing the full extent of his facetious arguments because them hearing him say all that will do them no favours and teach them damaging lessons. He is showing them and you both no respect and consideration. They deserve better to be honest and so do you. Alcoholics are by nature selfish creatures; their primary relationship is with drink.

I'm just about to go to work...dammit!

Someone else in a thread way back suggested the book 'Toxic Parents - Overcoming their hurtful legacy and reclaiming your life' by Susan Forward.

I bought it a few days ago, because I was worried about how my daughter could be affected by having a toxic father - esp. after what Atilla said in an earlier post.

The chapter on Alcoholic Parents is excellent.

Hope to post later tonight.

princess - i definately think you would benefit from some time away - why dont you treat yourself and dd - lets face it whatever you spend will pale in comparison to what he has spent on drugs and porn.

i cant believe he calls you stupid or disgusting - what a ! you are neither and deserve far better than him! does he even admit he has a problem?

are you renting at the moment or do you own the house with him? will the sale of your mums house give you a deposit for a property of your own. how old is dd? sorry for the inquisition but just trying to get a picture of the position you are in. then maybe we can all chip in some advice.

ps, the rent comment is priceless.

Hi everyone

good to asee you're all coping.

I can beat the rent comment. Since DP left in july he has not paid me a penny for thour three dcs - I have found a lodger who is brilliant - she's nearly always out working and when she's in she's happpy to babysit.

DP contacted me this week to ask for half the rent as he is "entitled" to it...

I have been trying to get him to see the kids and have been having tortous email exchanges (he will not talk by phone ) in which he puts up every obstacle possible to my suggestions and then tells me to that this situation is of my own making.

He is soooooooooo selfish yet just cannot see it. Isn't it funny how similar our dps/dh sound? Princess, you could be describing my ex dp.

got a card today from my best friend which says "better to have loved and lost.....than to have lived with the psycho for the rest of your life" Sadly(or happily) that's how I feel.

ML: Sometimes he admits he has a problem, other times he knows all will be ok now, because his thinking has changed, or he just wants to concentrate on this and that... He certainly doesn't seem to have any idea of the true impact of his problem. He tells me he comes across people in far worse states than himself, and far worse problems than I have with him, in his job.

We own a 1 bed flat in my name (because of his credit history) which is rented out. We are currently living in my mum's house, so no mortgage or rent. When sold, I should get 70k i guess as my share. My dd will be 2 at the beginning of next year. I'm supposed to be going back to uni next September, to hopefully qualify as a teacher. I said i'd pay him the money he put as a deposit on the flat, then love there myself, so he could get himself somewhere, but he said maybe he didn't want the money, he wanted the investment. Then he suggested he could live in the flat, but I'm not having the risk of him not paying the mortgage as it's my name.

GUP - i know just how you mean about the arguments, it happens exactly like that with me too. Do they hand out a book on how to treat your partners along with the drink/drugs??? Give Al-anon a go, it can't hurt, and I bet it'll help to be in touch with people who have been through what you are going through. Do it!

Bloody typical - I am having the night from hell - so can't talk. Maybe later??

Hope your ok Secretsquirrel.
Atilla- no my dc don't witness him at his worse. I am very careful that they don't see him drunk, mostly it kicks off when they are in bed / away. When he's drunk and they are about I double lock the doors and keep him away then tell them he is working late.

Thank you for the numbers and I will make the call. You are right that it is not his business but I don't want to get into a situation where I lie to him about it, ie going to meetings etc as I think that will cause huge problems. I've always been so hot on honesty so if I start lying to him I'll feel awful.

I think at the moment I just need some sort of coping mechanism for when he goes off on one - I do have a temper when pushed and he knows how to set it off to suit his own ends.

princess - pmsl at giving them a book on how to treat their partners. I can only think that they have posters on the wall of the gents toilets "how to behave like a shit and get her to take the blame!!"

Hi all,

Just read what I'd written earlier and it sounds a bit alarmist ...but I'm actually at work and it's been really busy!

We ought to all write down all the hurtful things that they say - a bit of exorcism, if you like!! Ohh yes, definetly agree, we are all married to the same person!

And they all say the same f.....g crap.

DH has said:

"are you going to to take motherhood seriously?"

"You only take DD out to show her off to your friends"

"You know all those times I was late home? Well I was out shagging other women!! They were even more desperate than you!" (he conveniently forgot that I used to pick him up every night from work as I was on Mat leave....!!

"Is it any wonder that all your previous partners left you" (Only true of 1!)

I used to react, but now when he starts, I say my mantra "Sorry you're having such a bad day, I do still love you" and if I'm particularly calm I smile as though he has said a compliment (OOH now that works a treat! You really must try it).

Try to turn it into a game- it really does work. He'll say more and more outrageous things to get you to react, but if you say your peace and walk away, you will have the upper hand. Takes practise but you'll feel so good about not reacting, and he'll feel a right ....!

They all seem to come out with the same hurtful things - yep, they really are one and the same person!!

princess - it may be very callous of me to say this but if you are not married he wont have claim on your inheritance and with the flat in your sole name you would appear to be in a much stonger position than he is.

you could move into the flat with dd for the time being - so getting away from him and the situation - and offer to buy out his beneficial share - ie the deposit he put down or slightly more to take his "investment" into account - when your mums house sells.

best to have this recorded in a deed of separation to stop him coming back for any more.

if he doesnt accept your offer to buy him out then he has to make an application to the court - I can see it now - i am an abusive drug addict, my baby daughter lives in that flat (which is not in my name because of my poor credit!), ive been offered x thousands of pounds in settlement for my claim but i want more!" the district judge in my town would love telling him where to go!

i guess if the flats too small for you both theres nothing stopping you selling it once he is out of the way or treating it as an investment for yourself while you get quailified.

whatever happens dont change your plans for uni - its just what you and dd need. i thoroughly regret not teaching, especially when i see one of my sisters on her 6 week summers hols with her kids!! you and dd will have a great life together.

ps, please go make a will - i know its morbid but with your inheritance on its way you need to know that if anything happens to you it goes on trust for your dd and is not in her father's hands. must take my own advice on that one too!! xxx

sorry but had to add to the "book" of things they say when their drunk or otherwise incapable:

dh "if i'm so bad why dont you just off with someone else then. he will just end up in the same gutter as me!"

oh right i was forgetting i am the black widow who drives men into the arms of Miss Smirnoff!!

SS - you have made me smile - it must drive him potty trying to get a reaction out of you because when he cant he hasnt got anyone but himself to blame for his behaviour.

take care. ML xx

I can't remember all the insults - I'll start taking notes, and try and practise SS's tips - I'm so useless at staying calm, I must practise inner calm and serenity!

ML - thanks for your advice. He doesn't even have any official stake inthe flat, as we said the deposit belonged to me - well he did borrow some money from me, so probably a good bit of it was mine. So don't see that he could turn down my offer and take me to court anyway. We were going to do the deed of interest or whatever it is called, but never did. Can't go and live in the flat at the moment anyway though, as have a tenant, plus I can't afford the mortgage at the moment, so i'm a bit stuck til we sell my mum's house. Which he's furious about me not wishing to buy with him, still.

Hi all

hope you have having a good day

princess - whatever your future, or not, with dp, it is essential that you protect your assetts. Think of them as dd's security..... do NOT le him live in the flat and 'pay' the mortgage - he will not, and as you know YOU will be penalised.

on the subject of verbal abuse my H used to say that it didn't matter what he said as it was only words..... words that his children could here as he told me to 'go f*k yourself up the ae" and "your no f*ing use, wont even give me a sg' and to our children, 'well boys - never marry a f*ing bitch like her who wont even s*g you" . On the last day he told me that ds3 should be put into care because I was at work !!. Only words.

actually words are more horrible and damaging than almost anything else...

ML - you have done so well getting bim out and keeping him at arms length, do you think he genuinely wants to stop for ever ? can you trust him again ?

ss - glad you are having a breather , I am sure you need one!! especially if you h is being horrible every day -sorry to be a bit contentious but your post sounds almost as though you thing HE has done YOU a favour by marrying you ? as though you were lucky to 'catch' him and so he is allowed to do whatever he wants ? But YOu are a strong resiliant hard working woman.......is he working, contributing? I notice you say he has started cooking again ......thats great...! well done what is it that al-anon has given you that allows you to accept the unacceptable - specially for your child ??? I mean this honestly - not being critical (Im in no place to be !!! ) but I wonder If i nee dthis to begin to accept what has happened to our family.

zk - i know if my h was still using Id have been well on the way to divorce by now.

GUP - you are coping with so much I hope this weekend is better for you.

so, today my h came over for the day, adn it was nice, we had a bit of lunch and played some games with the kids ...and he so badly wants to come home and is doing drug counselling via NHS, and 6-8 hours of NA a week and starting psychotherapy to work out why he needed to tke drug to start with.......and if you had told me 6 month ago he would do this I would have been overjoyed...BUT its about trust. there is so much lies and broken trust and hurt.........i am very very confused and find that in my heart I probalbly do still feel something fo him but I dont know why - pity? fear that I will never meet anyone else (age 43 3ds youngest is 2), familiarity? what a mess. he was in tears when I told him that me and the ds's were still going on a holiday that had been planned for new year........... bo**ocks

love lst xxx

Hello,

Hope everyone is keeping strong.

LST - pleased to hear that you had a nice day with the family.

But I can sympathise, (along with everyone else, I'm sure!), when it is so hard to just enjoy the moment/day but there is so much bitterness and resentment at the lies/hurt/lack of trust that has happened beforehand.

My sponsor gave me some excellent advice for those 'nice days' - be on your guard because he will be at you like an octopus. And she is quite right - you have already described one of his tentacles (tears). You stay strong and make damn sure you go on that holiday.

LST, regarding to me thinking my DH 'has done me the favour by marrying me' - I think that the context has got a bit lost in the translation...I was referring to one of his nasty comments where he was making out how desperate I - allegedly - was. That's the only trouble with email/texts . No no no - we've done Them the biggest favour imaginable by marrying Them .

My DH lost his job back in May, but managed to get compensation (talk about rewarding bad behaviour !). So in a way, that in itself has hastened the descent to his rock bottom, because he now has nothing to get up for, but has the means to get the alcohol he craves.

GUP & LST, Al anon helps you to make sense of what happens when the alcoholic behaves as they do. It is not a case of 'accepting the unacceptable' but of having the knowledge/strength/support to recognise this when it happens and teaches you how to manage your life despite it. There is Al Anon literature that is available - these give you the tools that you will need.

You have to go to Al Anon with a very open mind; you will not get all the answers on a plate, and ultimately, it is for you, not your partner. You really are not alone - everyone else there will have experienced the same, or worse than you. You don't talk about 'what they did, what they said' because that is not what it is all about. Hope this bit of insight into it helps.

That's what I do like about this thread, LST, because it's a bit of both. And when you are in crisis, it helps to just have a rant and to get it off your chest there and then to people who know exactly what you are going through. And between us all we have invaluable practical advice for each other as well as emotional support . Keep it up!!

SS I am going to try your method next time it happens (which sadly might not be long)I just sent him to Sainsburys for some orange juice for the boys and he's come back with a 3litre box of wine . My heart sank, he says I'm overeacting and that was all they had in the shop and it will last for ages ( again). Just as I was starting to relax too.

I can feel my stomach knotting up and today has gone from a nice normal Sunday to me feeling full of dread and anger in a split second.

GUP

You will never be able to relax with him around - I would argue that you will only relax in your day to day life when he has got out of your daily life for good.

How can you be overreacting exactly when you sent him for orange juice and this man has come back with 3 litres of wine?. He cannot even be trusted to do a simple errand without bringing drink into it.

Where's your own point of rock bottom?. He's nowhere near that point yet partly because you are around to help him. Drop his safety net; you are being used by him for his own selfish ends.

He is an extremely poor role model for your children in particular. What are they learning from him?. I do not doubt for one second that you shield them as much as possible from his worst excesses but kids are not stupid and they know that something is wrong and may even blame themselves as a result (perhaps like you did as a child). You do NOT want them to re-enact these scenarios when they are themselves adults.

You have more power than you realise; you can change things for the better but the upshot is he has to go.

Do call Alanon - you need their support and they won't judge.

GUP you are not overreacting; your relationship is in crisis becasue of his drinking and coming home from the supermarket with 3litres of wine is no good. You must be bitterly disappointed. I know that feeling so well

I recognise so much of myself and my ex dp 's relationship in what you say - mine wouild come home with drink and try to make light of it and I would end up in a foul mood all day.

I recognise the arguuments too -exdp could-and can- make me rabidly angry within a minute and we would have horrible vicious ugly rows. The alanon approach does sound interesting although I would find it very difficult not to want to wring his neck for him.

I do think you will reach a point where you simply can't carry on with it any more and then things seem clearer. although I love and miss my dp I know with certaintly that I could never go back to him even if he was sober - the thought of him cracking one day and coming home with the wine would be intolerable.

How old are your dcs? Mine are young (6,3 and 2) and I thought they were unaware of what was going on but even the 2 yr old has mentioned that mummy doesn't like daddy drinking daddy's juice recently and they have all made several comments that have made me realise that they knew all was not well between me and ex dp.

I think the thing abouyt going to Alanon is that it is a huge step to admitting to yourself as much as him that soomeone you have chosen to love has a drink problem. That must be empowering - I know that now I have started to tell people that Ex had a problem I feel a huge sense of relief. I think you should start talking about it to more people. It is not your shameful secret then any more.

Don't know what I;'m trying to say really.

Life without exdp in it on a daily basis is a strange new world but I don't miss the dread and anger that I too had. would you really be worse off without him?

My kids are 7 and 4 and dp is not their dad, they adore their dad and have a good relationship with him, although they are close to dp too. This is not an excuse, I know you are right about them seeing more than we think, but in a way that makes it easier to think about splitting. They will be hurt, but not as devastated as if he was their dad.
He's kept a low profile today and to be fair hasn't drunk much of the box, Maybe he was trying his luck or making a point - who knows.
I obviously haven't hit my rock bottom with him yet, but I can see it looming in the future somewhere. Every time I try and end it something stops me and I can't quite do it. I suppose because I love him and I'm not ready to give up on this, I wish to God that I could switch it off and not feel anything for him, I really do.

Hi GUP,

Re your comments:-
"My kids are 7 and 4 and dp is not their dad, they adore their dad and have a good relationship with him, although they are close to dp too".

Good to read that they have a good relationship with their birth dad - long may that continue. They need a caring male role model/mentor in their lives, your partner does not fit the bill in that regard.

"This is not an excuse, I know you are right about them seeing more than we think, but in a way that makes it easier to think about splitting. They will be hurt, but not as devastated as if he was their dad".

They may secretly be pleased that he's gone because their Mummy is happier as a result of him not being around daily.

"He's kept a low profile today and to be fair hasn't drunk much of the box, Maybe he was trying his luck or making a point - who knows".

I would say both, its selfish isn't it?. It's not relevant tbh that he hasn't drunk much from the wine box - the fact that he's bought it when he knows he has a drink problem is bad enough. You sent him out for orange juice, he came back with this. He clearly cannot be trusted with any responsibility.

"I obviously haven't hit my rock bottom with him yet"

No you have not. But you will.

"but I can see it looming in the future somewhere. Every time I try and end it something stops me and I can't quite do it".

Why is this, have you given this real thought?. You need to think about this and why you are holding back. Perhaps you feel sorry for him and like many who grew up seeing alcoholic parents perhaps have a sense of responsibly for him. Many children of alcoholic parents become super responsible as adults for others.

"I suppose because I love him and I'm not ready to give up on this, I wish to God that I could switch it off and not feel anything for him, I really do".

Do you honestly think that if you walk away you will have failed him somehow?. He has failed his own self, he has no-one to blame but him. You are not responsible for him and his actions; you can only change how you react to him. After all, he made a conscious choice to buy the wine box.

I think you need to start getting angry with him - he deserves no less tbh with you. Be brutally honest with yourself here - do you really love him or do you at heart feel sorry for him?. What's there to love exactly?.

What are you teaching your children by loving someone like this, this man who needs no real encouragement to mess with your head and beat you down in an emotional sense by casting aspertions on your parenting skills (not least of all to comment about your Dad). That's not love is it?. It's emotional warfare. You're doing all the giving and he's doing all the taking and gives nothing back to you but pain.

He neither knows or cares what he's doing to you.

Hello everyone,

Hope that your weekend has been ok.

GUP - I have re-read your earlier posts so as to understand what Attila has said in her response.

It is definetly not OK for him 'to do what he likes to you so long as he leaves the kids alone', and I feel very sad that what you went through with your father is allowing you to think that this is normal.

You partner has crossed the line by scaring your boys, and that in itself is enough to scare you into realising this 'next stage' is happening.

You have an awful lot to deal with and you cannot do it alone. Please, please make that call to Al Anon. And if you can, get hold of that book by Susan Forward about Toxic Parents that I mentioned earlier (on this page of the thread).

Please take care.

SS x

Thanks. I will have a look for the book and make the call to Al Anon.
He finished the box. I went to bed early and he woke me up stumbling round the bedroom. I called him a few choice names and told him to sleep on the sofa, which he did. He's in the pub now and I told him not to come home tonight. I need a break.
I feel beaten, worn down and rubbish. I'm tired of thinking and worrying about this and fed up with the same old routine.
The house I wanted has gone to someone else too so I am stuffed. That was my escape route.
Hows everyone else - better than me today I hope.

GUP - I'm sorry, it's so horrible when they let you down again (and again and again).
Please don't think that the house was the only route out of this. It sounds almost like you think that now the house is gone, you have to put up with this situation. And you don't.

Although I certainly understand the desire to disappear and avoid having to deal with the consequences of your decision to leave or whatever.

Dp is trying the super helpful, loving, cuddly approach, telling me how much he loves me every few minutes, interspersed with me saying, but I want you to leave. It's driving me insane. I can feel this oppressive, trapped frustration that he is ignoring what I want (again) and putting himself first. He did say that I'm cold though - i said of course I am, why would I say i want you to go, while cuddling up all affectionately????? And I watched a programme, how to have sex after marriage - he asked me why I was watching that instead of coming upstairs to cuddle and work on my own relationship!!?????

Lst - I'm glad you've been able to have some pleasant, normal time together, and of course he's upset, but he's not with you because of the choices he made. It's not your fault (but I know how hard it is to stop feeling resonsible for their happiness). I think you sound like you're handling things really well, however hard it is.