SUPPORT THREAD FOR THE PARTNERS OF ADDICTS

[lemonstartree]

having read all the posts on princesshobnob's thraet It struck me (prob because I am one of them) how may women are living with addicts/abusive men (does one cause the other etc etc!)

thought maybe we could do with our own support thread.

I have recently kicked out my cannabis head husband. It has been hard, but not as hard as livig with his dope smoking and verbal abuse (to me) and physical abuse of the children.

So much of what other women wrote reasonated with me; the wanting another chance; the lying; the erratic behaviour; the blaming me (you) for their problems; the financial mess; the wanting sex when high - when tbh you hate them and have never wanted it less; the messing with your head until you think its YOU with the problem.

I am a bit further on than some of you - its 2 months since my marriage ended,
but my H says he has now stopped smoking cannabis, he has found a job and starts this week and he is NOW thnking hes 'done enough' to be given a second (read 50TH) chance.
I am expecting trouble whan I make it clear that some thngs cannot be repaired however Sorry you are that they are broken....

Hi R4AC. That could be me writing that post a year or so ago. Not reacting is the hardest thing in the world to do, which is why MN and Alanon are good. You can do all your ranting on here or at Alanon and it does make you feel calmer. I understand you can only go when you are ready and believe me it took years before I plucked up the courage, but when I did it was a relief.
What I'm trying to say is keep talking and letting it out whether its on here or to friends.
I'm in a catch 22 situation, I can only go to Alanon when P is sober, as he looks after the dc while I'm there. I can't ask my Mum as she does so much for me as it is and I can't put any more on her. I'm going to have to miss tonights meeting as he has slunk off back to his flat after an argument yesterday when I lost my cool and told him to off. So when I really need to go, that's the one time I can't .
I'll just have to bore the pants off you lot instead!

"I'm in a catch 22 situation, I can only go to Alanon when P is sober, as he looks after the dc while I'm there. I can't ask my Mum as she does so much for me as it is and I can't put any more on her. I'm going to have to miss tonights meeting as he has slunk off back to his flat after an argument yesterday when I lost my cool and told him to ** off. So when I really need to go, that's the one time I can't".

Oh GUP, you need that RL support something chronic.

Can anyone else mind your DC's for the evening?. Neighbour perhaps?. I realise your Mum is doing a lot already but you really need to attend these meetings if possible. This is for both you and your children. Another possible option is for you to engage the services of "Sitters".

You of course don't have to answer this but how much more are you going to take from him?.

I am at this man again so goodness knows how you feel.

I honestly wish you would tell him to off for good out of yours and the childrens lives!!!. You'd all be far happier and healthier without him in it. Y'know that don't you?.

regards

Attila x

No there really isn't anyone else. I've never left them with anyone other than my family or dp. I'll try and get something sorted for next week but tonight is definitely out.
I wish I could tell him to off for good too, but something always stops me, or makes me backtrack. I suppose I'm not ready to let go yet.

Hi GUP

You really do need to find a solution to who looks after your children of an evening. If you cannot go tonight then have something put in place for next week. You cannot rely on this man to do it. I use "Sitters" (I would recommend them to you if they are in your area having used them myself for several years now).

No I don't think you're quite ready to let go yet either. Something is indeed holding you back. Maybe a small part of you still thinks this can be somehow salvaged so you hang on in there. However, this does not mean that you are weak - you are not but he most certainly is. He is fortunate that you're still present in his life because many women would have walked long before now. Frankly, life is too short for all this and at its dysfunctional heart it's all about him.

ALO2 - Please try to hold your nerve about the 'summer hols' thing - don't be worrying about it now.

I'm afraid that you could be being manipulated into putting aside money for it and then you may/will be all be terribly hurt if (when the time comes)all that money has gone. The practical advice I can give is to get an account set up in your sole name ASAP and then at least you will know that all the outgoings will be honoured. Then it doesn't matter about the joint one. Yes I know that it is unfair but you have to protect yourself & the C.

GUP - So agree with Atilla, you really must find an alternative solution if your mum really cannot help...this is the one thing you cannot let go, because it's for You. Does your mum know about you going to Al Anon? Agree again about you thinking you are being weak - you certainly are not. I stayed with H for a year whilst in Al Anon so that I really did know whether I was making the right decision when the time came to make it.

Hi SS & Attilla

I spoke to my Mum last night and she told me off for not calling her to babysit. Also DP said he will still have them on a Monday if he?s sober around!

So that?s that problem sorted. He is seeing his counsellor tonight so hopefully things are on track again.

He?s still not living with me, although I have been letting it slip lately, but I must be stricter on that one.

Thanks again for all your support

GUP

Glad you got the babysitting situation sorted out; these meetings are for your benefit and I would urge you to keep attending them. I would not personally let your partner sit your children under any circumstances frankly.

Did he tell you he is seeing his counsellor this evening?.

Re your last sentence you do need to be and should be much stricter with your own self. Show him you are deadly serious and do not waiver in your resolve. Any weaknesses you show, he will exploit. Consistency is key here, you cannot send mixed messages.

He's fine to babysit when he's sober. They love him. Its when he's drunk I'll need a back up plan, which is when I'll really need to go to Alanon.
Now his teenage dd wants to live with him now he's all alone in a nice flat. He's thrilled. I think its a recipe for disaster but thankfully she's not my problem to worry about - that's his ex wife's job!!!

Hi GUP

re your comments:-
"He's fine to babysit when he's sober. They love him. Its when he's drunk I'll need a back up plan, which is when I'll really need to go to Alanon".

I still would not let him babysit your children; he needs to see the consequences of his actions and you need to show him that by your own actions. You continue to enable him because you do not let him experience fully the consequences of his actions. Your Mum is willing to sit them so let her do it.

He gets drunk again, he does not babysit them period, even when sober. They love him, well yes, (perhaps also because you still do and they like to see you as their Mum happy), but I personally think this man loves drink more than either you or them.

"Now his teenage dd wants to live with him now he's all alone in a nice flat. He's thrilled. I think its a recipe for disaster but thankfully she's not my problem to worry about - that's his ex wife's job!!!"

You are right to surmise this would be a recipe for disaster indeed. Does she think that life with him will be better than what she has already?. He's doubtless thrilled because he'll have another person to clean up his mess and run around after him thus enabling him further (sigh).

Hi GUP - you so need Al Anon, whether he is sober or not....of course it all looks and feels ok when he is sober, but you need to be consistent with your own recovery.

Agree with Atilla - what a coincidence that there's another enabler on tap as soon as you start going to Al Anon .

How is everyone else?

I'm so much better than the last time I posted. I had a day in the sun and peace & quiet .

Bump

So - How is everyone this week?

Did you manage to get to a meeting on Mon, GUP?

ALO2 - How are the evening classes?

LST, Princess, RFAC, Hope you are all doing well yourselves...

I'm doing well, considering all the latest provocations (won't go into the gory details as you have all been there - suffice to say H had a bit of cleaning up to do! ).

DD had her new school introduction last Fri. (which was interesting - H made a right idiot of himself 'cos he was worse for wear having had a night of it the previous night). This Fri we have school dinner with them and then they have another hour with their new teacher. Luckily she is in class with 3 people from her pre-school nursery, so I don't have any worries about that (Thank God ).

Hi SS. No I couldn't go on Monday. Had to go to a parents evening at ds's school. Will try next week, although I don't feel the need to go so much atm because dp is not living with us. He's taken on a 6 month lease on the flat, so I feel like a weight has been lifted.
He's doing well living with his dd and according to her he's not drinking, so rather than being his enabler maybe having responsibility for her is the thing he needed to stop.
that it wasn't me he stopped for but its early days still.
Sorry your H is still being an arse SS. Still the end is in sight

GU - you should still go to Al Anon even if your P isn't living with you. You are going for You, not because he is/isn't living with you.

The reasons why are a bit too detailed to go into here on MN, but suffice to say that you need to really understand the first step (being powerless over alcohol).

He hasn't stopped drinking per se, his DD may want to believe what she sees but how many times had he 'stopped' when he was living with you? Why are you still keeping tabs on him by asking his DD whether he is drinking or not? (Or did she volunteer the information? No matter, you just say "Oh good" and move on to something else).

I don't want to come accross as being harsh but you do so need to keep going to Al Anon - in time you will understand why I have said what I have just said.

((((hugs and encouragement)))) SSx

GUP

I would fully agree with SS. You still need to go to these meetings because these meetings are for YOU and your benefit.

If his daughter is of school age she won't see him drink anyway. He has a high tolerance to alcohol and she may not actually recognise how drunk he actually is. Sometimes as well people only see what they want to see ignoring the blinding obvious (as the reality is far too painful and denial is thus easier).

He won't stop drinking for anyone; he has not done so to date so why would his daughter now living with him be any different?. You need to realise as well as her that he has to stop drinking for HIM, he needs to make that decision, he has to want himself to get proper help (not just regular counselling but someone along the lines of AA if he is indeed serious). Peoples' entreaties to him to stop won't make a hill of beans difference.

I would also ask whether this young lady actually volunteered the information or whether you actively asked after him.

TBH this man is like an addiction to you; you deep down know he's not ideal for you and by turn your children but somehow you just cannot fully let go. Perhaps you feel at heart you can still "save" him and or "rescue" him from the demon drink. No is the short answer to that question but you will need to realise that for yourself. That in itself will be very painful when you do come to that realisation.

Attila

I'm not daft, I don't think he's suddenly stopped for good. She tells me he's not drinking, as she confides in me about a lot of things, particularly him. She can tell if he's had a drink, she knows him better than I do!! I don't ask as I don't want to know - if he's not here he can do what he likes.
I do understand that I still need to go to Alanon, but I'm not going to put that before a parents evening at school. My dc always come first.

GU -

"I don't ask as I don't want to know - if he's not here he can do what he likes".

But his daughter is unwittingly keeping you back in that loop. Your P knows exactly what is happening when you meet with his daughter - he may have left your house but he is still living rent free in your head. That's why Al Anon is so important.

Are there any other meetings that you can get to on other evenings in your area?

SSX

I don't doubt for one moment that you put your children first. But you still need to go to those meetings for YOU; parents evenings notwithstanding.

His daughter though is talking to you about him. Information you neither want or need. Infact she'd be better off talking to Al-ateen (no disrespect to you) about her Dad's alcoholism - will she be willing to talk to them?. Everyone is still taking responsibly for this man, even talking about him keeps you involved.

Feel for his daughter as well, yet someone else to run around after him. One day his daughter will have enough of him too,

No, there aren?t any other meetings in my area.
Are you saying then that I should cut off all contact with him and his dd now? She is part of my family, like a big sister to my dc and she and I are extremely close. I know I?m not responsible for her, but I can?t just turn my back on her. I still love him and still care about him too, and now we are no longer under the same roof I feel so much better about things and we are getting along better than we have in years.
If you don?t mind me saying so, your advice seems to be very harsh ? I should put Alanon meetings first, before my dc (isn?t that what alcoholics do with alcohol ) and I should not listen when my stepdaughter confides in me about her dad and send her to someone else to talk to when its taken over 3 years to build the close bond we have.
Sorry, but I just don?t want to be that kind of person.

Hi GUP,

You misunderstand, have never stated you put the meetings before the children. However, you still need to go to these meetings regularly that's all I'm writing.

Him yes re contact, this young lady not necesarily. Of course you can still meet her (am not going to stop you!) but the subject of his ongoing drinking is off limits. You cannot talk to each other about his drinking; it will just have you both going around in circles. You're both still responsible for him; she perhaps even more so as she's now living with her Dad. This is what happens, the person (through no fault of their own) ends up becoming super responsible for the alcoholic person.

Both you and her are caught up in all of this because of him. She needs support from an organisation like Alateen on the subject of her Dad's alcoholism rather than just your good self as a sounding board. Am not suggesting at all that you're not good enough to talk too about his drinking but you're not the ideal person to discuss it with. Am only writing that purely and only because you have been and are too close to the situation and have your own issues re him.

GUP you're not a bad person whatsoever and come across as astute and articulate. I am glad that this young lady can confide in you but instead talk about other subjects other than her Dad's drinking. Am sure you do try and steer the conversation away from him anyway.

With best wishes

Attila

Hi GUP - We are just concerned about you never getting off the merry-go-round...

After all, you have already told us that:

"she confides in me about a lot of things, particularly him"

The close bond that you have is His Drinking - are you able to be really honest with yourself and write down all the other things that you talk about when talking about your P? This may take a while to be able to do - because you are still very close to the situation and yes, of course you still love the person he is (but not the behaviour that is threatening to obliterate what is left of the person he was).

That is why Al Anon is So important to your recovery. Do you feel that there is someone in your group that would be able to sponsor you - so you have help if you cannot get to a meeting?

I wasn't suggesting that Al Anon comes before your DC, but you mustn't underestimate how important your recovery is in all this. Everyone elses feelings seem to be coming before yours - that is really not on.

SSX

The bond I have with his daughter is about so much more than his drinking, believe me. True, I can empathise with her feelings about his drinking but our relationship is far more diverse than that. You don't know any of us so how can you presume to know what I talk to his dd about? Or presume that he is manipulating me from afar through her?
The truth is that even if I never saw him or his dd again I will always have issues with drinking because of my childhood - which is why I'll continue to go to Alanon when I can but I won't let it take over my life or I might as well stay hung up over P's drinking still.
I'll be honest, I do get slightly offended when you talk about people in my life as if you know them personally. OK there are 'classic' behaviour patterns relevant to all alcoholics but surely every one is different and not all relationships are the same?
You know there are one or two people in my Alanon group who I consider to be a little bit obsessive, they go to conventions and meetings as often as they can and use it as a religion. I think that is taking it too far and I don't want to go down that route. Don't get me wrong, it is really really helpful, but I think it can be given too much importance and can become a crutch in itself.
That's just my opinion and of course you are welcome to yours.

"OK there are 'classic' behaviour patterns relevant to all alcoholics but surely every one is different and not all relationships are the same?"

Everyone is different yes but the behaviour patterns shown by people related to the alcoholic are often enabling ones.

Take for instance my ILs for instance (please do!!). I see enabling behaviours in my ILs all the time, they don't learn from it either, they honestly think they are helping. All they are infact doing is shielding the person from the consequences of their actions.

I deliberately did not mention the issues re alcoholism in your childhood but as you've mentioned it..

Perhaps, if you were to also now address the issues in your childhood re the alcoholism you saw at that time (and that will be emotionally painful for you to experience but it may well be cathartic) you will perhaps find another way forward for your own self.

"Perhaps, if you were to also now address the issues in your childhood re the alcoholism you saw at that time (and that will be emotionally painful for you to experience but it may well be cathartic) you will perhaps find another way forward for your own self"
I do need to address these at some point, but that has to be something for the future. The emotional fall out from that therapy will be hurrendous and I am nowhere near strong enough to handle that right now.
I see where you are coming from, but I'm trying to handle things the best way for all of us and so far it seems to be working.

Good GUP, at least you acknowledge that point. That is progress. But it is something you will need to address and I sincerely hope that one day you will through counselling. I do wonder if you somehow blame yourself, I would categorically state in response it was not your fault.

You still seem very responsible for everyone though and that is not actually a good state for you to be in.

NACOA is also a good website www.nacoa.org.uk.

BTW I see you did not make an offer to take my ILs!!. LOL.

Attila