SUPPORT THREAD FOR THE PARTNERS OF ADDICTS

[lemonstartree]

having read all the posts on princesshobnob's thraet It struck me (prob because I am one of them) how may women are living with addicts/abusive men (does one cause the other etc etc!)

thought maybe we could do with our own support thread.

I have recently kicked out my cannabis head husband. It has been hard, but not as hard as livig with his dope smoking and verbal abuse (to me) and physical abuse of the children.

So much of what other women wrote reasonated with me; the wanting another chance; the lying; the erratic behaviour; the blaming me (you) for their problems; the financial mess; the wanting sex when high - when tbh you hate them and have never wanted it less; the messing with your head until you think its YOU with the problem.

I am a bit further on than some of you - its 2 months since my marriage ended,
but my H says he has now stopped smoking cannabis, he has found a job and starts this week and he is NOW thnking hes 'done enough' to be given a second (read 50TH) chance.
I am expecting trouble whan I make it clear that some thngs cannot be repaired however Sorry you are that they are broken....

I guess you're getting to you rock bottom too, and you're able to admit to yourself that you don't want to live like this.

Re counselling, the problem is that the people I know who could help look after dd have their own kids - and the session is so late that I can't leave her at someone else's house, pick her up, and bring her home. It would be about 10pm before I got her to bed, and I don't think that's ok.

Today he says he's angry at the money he's wasted, and he doesn't want to do them again. Let's hope it's true, but I've heard these revelations before.

We had some mad row today - he was going to meet me at Tesco, then started getting angry at me when I was stuck in traffic on the bus, and said I couldn't tell how long I'd be. I got fed up woth the way he was speaking to me (though I know I can be horrible to him too when he's taken drugs / won't get up to help out with dd etc), and said I wouldn't meet him if he was going to talk to me like that - he said this was blackmailing him into being nice (I was asking him to talk to me civilly). I turned off my phone after telling him I would go elsewhere and be back later.

Unfortunately he didn't have his key, was stuck outside in the rain with no money, and I didn't know and had my phone off. This sent him into a mad rage and I have dozens of abusive calls on my phone, calling me a stinking ugly bitch at one point, saying he'd break down the door etc etc.

Turned phone on to find out what had happened, met him and gave him keys - he knew I was somewhere without mobile reception, but continued to phone through the afternoon, saying he would lock me out, let me in when I deserved it etc...

He was out when I got back, but came back (though said only cos of dd, not for me), he'd left the ancient dog locked in the garden in the rain (he hates her).

Was sorry for himself cos hadn't eaten all day (though there was plenty of food in the house) - my fault for not going shopping with him...

Calmed down in the end, and said some of the anger was with himself over money, but I just think it was totally over the top. Not nice to be locked out, but I can't believe he couldn't have contacted a friend. And he forgot his key, after all. I didn't plan to lock him out, but he acted like I had. I only turned the phone off because I don't want to be shouted at for no good reason.

Jst glad he's gone out again now.

At least I didn't rise to his arguments, and stayed cool for once. Our relationship is so clearly in ruins, I can't understand how he can't see it. We don't care about each other at all.

Sorry for long rambling post - just venting as usual.

hi i went away over night stayed at my mums so good came back mess left i really do not know what is best for us i feel for you and the violence thing nothing is your fault i think these men see the softness

Hi Everyone.
PHN - at his disgusting behaviour, and I sympathise, I've been on the receiving end of it many times.
I went to Alanon again last night and it really makes me feel better about everything, just to know there are others out there going through the same and I'm getting some really good tips on how to change my attitude to it all. I definitely recommend it.
We've had a reasonably good weekend (apart from a monster argument on Friday night). I feel a bit like I'm in limbo atm, waiting till I'm strong enough to make a final decision about things, but rubbing along together in the meantime.
Malibubaby & Ready4another... I'm so sorry you're going through all this shit too. Please don't let them drag you down. They try to make you feel worthless because deep down they know they are in the wrong, but the alcohol won't let them face it.
that so many of us are in this awful situation.

Hi everyone.

I hate bank holidays. he is in bed off work 'cos he fancied a day to himself after my behaviour' {I told him it was unacceptable to keep calling me a whore etc and that he did it because he loved me a crap excuse. I don't often argue back, self preservation}

Thank you for the link to the AA stuff. I haven't read it yet as dd1 was up most of the night being sick, but page 10 helped me a great deal.

I'm sure mn and the ads are the only things keeping me sane for the dcs right now

PHN, I so feel for you with his crap behaviour, my dh did something similar when I was very pg. Think it might be on here under readytopop? They can behave like such arses.

ALO2 - have you worked out CAT yet?

GU - so pleased that you've made another meeting; believe me when I say that it Will get better once you are able to step back and see it for what it all really is. No-one can see or think clearly when you are living in such madness. You will get your serenity back, I promise. All you have to do is keep going to the meetings .

Princess - well done you for keeping your cool. Oh I so know what it is like to be on the receiving end of such crapness - we all do. Better that you vent on here than at him....it is like talking English to a Chinaman - you cannot communicate with them when they are like that. With Alcoholism they are in a blackout - sounds much the same with drugs .

Hi GUP

Just seen your message because I have been away for a few days on holiday.

Re your comments:-
"Attilla - I think the fact that he stayed in and just had a few glasses of wine on a night which would normally have been a full on binge is a good thing".

Well it is not because you are still enabling him. Having a drink with this man is just asking for trouble, you just cannot drink with him any more.

"Although his drinking is a problem when he has too much I can live with him having a couple of glasses or a few pints of an evening".

I think you've become conditioned to it and that is a problem in its own self.

"I just think credit where its due - he's making an effort and so am I and I think its wise sometimes to pick your battles..."

Hun you're making an effort by attending Al-anon meetings (do keep attending these) but he to my mind is not. Bet you he does not tell his counsellor that he still drinks and with you to boot. You are enabling him by drinking alcohol with him. You cannot and should not be drinking with him. That enables him because you are shielding him from the consequences of his actions. If he did go down the pub and get bladdered that is his choice ultimately. I don't think he is at all serious about tacking his drink problem. If you think that you can in any way control his drinking you're dead wrong.

You need to remember the 3 Cs with regards to alcoholism.

You did not cause this
You cannot control this
You cannot cure it

Ultimately you can only help your own self.

Attilla - I'm not trying to control or cure it, I know that would be hopeless. You are right that if he's going to do it, he'll do it regardless of what I do or say but he is making an effort not to binge anymore and rather than enabling him to drink I feel that I am supporting him by letting him drink sensibly at home. If I ban alcohol in the house altogether he will only drink in pubs and that is when he is more likely to go too far.
He has his next counselling session next week and I don't know the details of what he tells his counsellor, but I do know that he wouldn't be going and wouldn't be trying so hard to limit his drinking if he didn't seriously want to. Its a big step for him to even speak to a counsellor about this, so I do think he is making an effort (and I do know him better than you do at the end of the day!)
I'm going to stick with Alanon, I'm finding it helpful and it has made me think clearer about things already.
Thanks for your comments - I can always count on you not to sugar the pill

Hi GUP,

Of course you know him better than I do. I sincerely hope though that he is not going to this counsellor primarily to placate you. If he is this particular approach will see him ultimately fail. I sincerely hope he does not fall flat on his face figuratively speaking re the counsellor and stops going cos its getting too emotionally hard because it will emotionally hurt you even more. And tbh you've been through more than enough with him already (I still remember what happened to you previously).

He cannot drink sensibly full stop!. I can see where you're coming from because this is exactly how enablers act but you are enabling him by letting him drink at home. You likely think this is better than him drinking in the pub but it is not really any better is it?. Enabling gives you a false sense of control. You are enabling him by doing this because he is being shielded by you. He is not facing up to the consequences of his actions (i.e if he went to the pub and got plastered he would soon run out of cash). If he goes to the pub then that is ultimately his choice. He's still drinking alcohol and he is someone with an alcohol dependency. You cannot and must not drink with him in your house that is all I am saying.

Am pleased to see that you plan on continuing to attend the Al-anon meetings. These will help you because you certainly need real life support as well as a web link.

Sugar coating the pill helps no-one does it.

With best wishes

Attila

Hi everybody, I've just read on the thread since my last post and I'll just say that deciding to go to Al Anon is not easy, it is a lot easier to deny its potential to help us, it is so easily done, we are not the addicts, why should we change?

But WE DO NEED TO CHANGE. There are no other ways around it and the quicker we accept it the better we will be.

We need the serenity to accept the things that we cannot change, the courage to change the things that we can and the wisdom to know the difference. Indeed, and we cannot do this on our own, especially living with the addict.

When I'm wavering within myself, I like to read this page on control issues and detachment, I find it helps me immensely.

Good luck to all of you.

Oh WDWGFH - it's so nice to hear from you again....your post will be an enormous help to not just the newcomers but to old timers like me who can always learn more .

GU - I can understand where you are coming from; a year ago I'd've said exactly the same things so don't beat yourself up trying to explain the reasons why you do what you do.

At the end of the day, it is very uncomfortable when you realise just how much you have been manipulated by the alcoholic but you will come to understand more if you keep going back to Al Anon and you will soon have the tools to be able to deal with it .

RFAC - Don't vent at him, vent on here!!

Another thing for the Al Anon sceptics. Even if you think you have nothing in common with the people in the room because of their gender, their social class, their personal history, eventually they're going to say something that's going to hit you hard because you weren't necessarily ready, willing to hear it from someone else and when you hear the pain in someone else's voice it is so much stronger than reading any books, websites or lists of things to do.

Al Anon brings people together to make them stronger. I don't always connect with the share and/or the reading from Courage to Change: One Day at a Time in Al-Anon at the time and more often than not I hide the book at home... until I need to read a passage. I know people from my groups who need to read this book litterally a day at a time.

On this thread, we're all different but we have the same pain and the same need to get better. We are good people and do not deserve this shit.

I love you all.

WDWGFH - As well as 'Courage to Change' there is also the 'One Day At A Time' book which has been my survival bible - I've found that particular book is better if you are living with active alcoholism.

I have found that whatever emotion I am feeling, be it anger/frustration/hopelessness etc, I look up the emotions in the index and read the readings about them - and then I feel so much calmer and better inside and I find that I don't react to his nastiness. As one of the sayings goes, "keep doing what you're doing and you will keep getting what you are getting"; so what is the harm in trying a different way of coping with active alcoholism? If you find yourself in a vicious cycle of abuse and counter abuse, then you need to extracate yourself from that 'Merry Go Round Called Denial' - only then can you really see what utter madness you have been living with.

The slogans are excellent too - I was quite sceptical at first but when you read up about the meanings, well it starts to make sense.

Hope that you all have a good weekend and the rain goes away-in more than one sense of the word.....just remember, above those clouds the sun is always shining . SSx

SS, I agree with what you are saying up to a point. It does help reading this book living with an active alcoholic (I've done it).

My concern at this stage is what does it bring us, to live with an alcoholic? Not much, and the more we read, the more we attend meetings, we realise how much we've been damaged and hurt and our spirits nearly destroyed.

Living with an addict, we forget who we are, we do not have the choice, they make us forget about us by changing who we are and there's no way around it, we deserve our lives.

And let's not forget our children's pain.

Wheredowego - thanks for that link, just had a quick read thru as only have littke time while Balamory is on . It's very interesting so much rings true.

The books mentioned sound worth a read too.

Had another counselling session yesterday - she was giving me some tips about staying calm, which I'm going to practise, as I hate how easily he makes me feel upset and angry, and I want to be able to rise above it all - I'd love to be able to smile kindly at him, whatever he says, and just not react.

hi. DH and I had huge row about his marijuana habit which was getting out of hand and he was going to take DD to his drug pickup. I was so shocked and I panicked. The row escalated DH saying he feels controlled and I feel as if he's not there because he is just Weeded out all the time. I used to join him when we were childless (Phase of abusing yourself thinking it's fun..) but after I got pregnant I quit and he continued. The vicious cycle of me pleading him to stop using it SOOO much (I'm not holy saint, I don't mind him smoking now and then) before work, or in the morning while taking care of dd. He would stop after big rows, then start over again. This time I meant what I said (after his almost three months binge) and we were going to separate but now he has decided to quit and see therapist for addiction. He has quit and it's day two and the atmosphere is icy and dry.
I don't know how to be around him anymore when he's sober and he seems to feel very uncomfortable as well. We do love each other and he's a fantastic father to our dd and I want to support him but I don't know how I can help him. We haven't had sex life since two months and don't feel intimate or close to each other. I found him very unattractive when he's stoned like that and I hated the smell as well so I would even sit very far away from him.
I feel sad for us and don't know how we ended up being such a misery. I ordered some books you mentioned in this thread and willing to go to couples counselling. Is Relate any good and how much would we have to pay and could we take dd with us in daytime? Or would he have to have addiction therapy alone?

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alittleone2 - please please CAT me whenever you are ready. Also (((((hugs))))) for you - keep on going, try to post even if it's a little note to let us know you are holding on in there. We will all help on here as much as we can. Just managing to talk on here is a help in itself.

WDWGFH - I understand what you are saying. Unfortunately for me, I know I managed to change my attitude towards my H but if anything it made his attitude worse! I really struggled; the only reason that I didn't cave in was because I kept going back to Al Anon and got stronger. I made sure that I gave it at least a year before I made any decisions about what I was going to do - in the end his unnacceptable behaviour made the decision for me (he crossed the boundary by frightening DD with his behaviour).

The best thing about Al Anon was that it enabled me to make a rational decision when the time came to make it. I was able to stand back from it all with a calm mind (it took 8 months to be able to get to this stage and that was because I had the help of a fantastic sponsor).

I hadn't threatened to leave/divorce/ in any rows because I learned that rowing with an alcoholic is pointless. They are usually in 'blackout' - they don't remember what they are saying so they cannot react rationally to what you say back. BUT, they will remember every little thing that you have told them when the times are good - and they will not hesitate to use it against you. Never underestimate the sheer vitriol that the alcoholic will use against you.

And yes, we have to stand there and take it on the chin, and not react to it. That is the key - Not Reacting. No matter how unfair/untrue/downright wrong they are, You Must Not React. Try to imagine that they have said the loveliest compliment, really believe it, smile (not grimace), then walk away. Try it, and see what happens. The more you react the worse they will feel so they will use that 'oh God, I've really upset her, I've made her cry, I'm a worthless shit for doing that to her' and so they will have even more to drink to try to get over that episode. Then the next day they are full of remorse, they know they've got too far (but won't remember any details!), but they will manipulate the situation/promise the earth so you will take them back then all will be roses until it happens again. I was sceptical about this at first, but my sponsor said that if I 'keep doing what I was doing I would keep getting what I was getting'. I would talk to my sponsor about the most stupid things, but believe me, it so helped to Think before acting. I would 'reason it out' and find that I usually had the right answer but was about to put it accross in the wrong way!

If you can't do the 'smile' thing, then just get yourself out when it gets bad. The times I went out with DD in the rain, went round to friends/neighbours houses....don't try to fight back with words because they will be wasted words and you will be the one who comes off worst.

Yes, Al Anon 'appears to be all about Us changing Our Behaviour' - why should we, we aren't the sick people in all this. But WE ARE AS SICK AS THEY ARE. They have to reach their rock bottom and seek help via AA in order to arrest their disease. We can do so much for ourselves, to 'accept the things that we cannot change, and use courage to change the things that we can' - and only through Al Anon can we learn the wisdom to know the difference.

OOps, went on a bit there - sorry about that . Hope it helps. SSx

Hi, am only on here briefly while dcs glued to come outside

SS, you have just reduced me to tears - just because you know. That it is not me, and that maybe I am not the useless idiot I am becoming conditioned to thinking I am.

Will post pr5operly later, off to fine a tissue before dc's find me blubbing

Hi there everyone, how's it all going?

R4AC - I hope you feel better now and ready to start over with a new lease of life and freedom from those negative thoughts.

ALO2 - How has your week been?

GU, PHN & LST, are you all ok? How is it going with the 'not reacting'?

VB - LST (who started this thread) would be the best person to answer your queries; her P & the problems sound very similar to yours....

Atilla - I've been watching that Meerkat Manor! It's fab, it has everything in it; excitement, fun & drama....they have me & DD on the edge of our seats!

Anyway, am looking forward to some R&R tonight - will dip back into MN as well if anyone's about...

SSx

I've had a bit of a 'down day' today . I have had the affidavit sworn this am (which made me feel incredibly sad to think that the marriage really is at an end).

I've just got back from my solicitors where we have spent an hour going through the 28 page financial document so as to have it all ready for the off - I don't see H just divorcing without a fight.

I'm very tired too - getting all the evidence together (for the financial document) in the dead of night ('cos we are still in the house together and I have no privacy at all) has just about tipped me over the edge. Never mind, it is all in order now and we are just waiting for the pensions statement then that will be it. I will have to wait & see what H will do next (if anything!).

But there is always a +ve in there somewhere...H & DD are at his parents for the weekend so I shall start clearing stuff out. It will be a slog but I least I will have some serenity in the house whilst I do it and I know I will feel better when it's done!! And H is so far gone now that I doubt that he will even notice when he gets back on Mon.

Hello everyone! I've not been around much this week as been really busy at work and ds2 hasn't been well.
SS I'm still going to the Alanon meetings. I've been for 3 weeks now and it is helping me. I feel a lot more calm and relaxed after each session and I'm trying to take on board the stuff I'm hearing.
All in all things are going well though, dp is really making the effort and we have been getting on very well.
Hope everyone else is OK and has a good weekend.

Well done SS. Do you know where you are going?

Glad Alanon is helping you GUP, don't know if I'm quite ready for that. What do you do with your dc's when you go?

It is a beautiful sunny day and he is sat in the garden beer after beer after beer

I can hear his the things he says when drunk coming out of the dc's mouths and still I do nothing. I just hate that I'm so feeble. Ds was so upset when I came home from shopping today, He'd been asleep when I left, thinking about it later I realised it is prob from where while drunk dh asks ds if he wants to stay with him and mummy go away. F**king mind games

Last weekend I had to put the baby down when he kicked off, all sorts was being threatened, and I now know that I was holding her wouldn't stop him. That line was crossed once a few weeks ago, but I'm still here. stupid feeble me Maybe he is right. Maybe I am a crap mother. But I'm these childrens only mother and they are my world.

Yet during the week, when he is sober, everything is fine. I have my husband back.

I guess the bottom is rising up to meet me, but I have to reach it first as someone said. Am going to give not reacting a bloody good try. Wish me luck, think I'll need it this evening.

I've been following this thread and everything you say rings so true. I felt myself becoming less and less until I didn't feel too much of myself as I was taking care of DH's depression/addiction. Over the years we have been together, I started to get depressed myself, cry a lot but I didn't understand what was happening to me. The book the codependent no more is fantastic and I would recommend it to everybody who are very giving but are no good at looking after yourself. Or realize that you don't know what you are feeling anymore..

I'm trying to find my center again with this book but it's quite difficult. I find DH start to tell me 'I'm not good at this..I can't do this' as I suppose I'm being more independent and not reacting to his emotional responses and trying to feel my own feelings for the first time in years. Especially not doing things FOR him and not feeling or acting guilty about it. Giving myself credit, praising myself, trying not to criticize myself and trying to detach. It's VERY diffciult because sometimes I ask myself am I being cold?? But I don't think so because inside I feel stronger somehow.

Sorry for the long post, but I think we are all in the same boat and it feels good to know that there is some place to write all this and be understood hopefully.

readyforanothercoffee,

Why don't you make contact with Al-anon via the phone if you don't feel ready and or able to attend a meeting?. You can talk to them on the phone, they can give you support that way.

You are all being dragged down by this man, the longer you stay the more difficult it becomes to see a way clear through the morass he has put you all in.

Womens Aid may also help you as well.

You are not necessarily feeble; just confused and frightened of your own judgement because he has made you thus. Your children are copying what he says; is this what you really want for them from life?. Growing up with an alcoholic and abusive father?. Of course not - it will harm them emotionally, not just to say you. The first step out though is often the hardest, you likely still have feelings for him and as you write he's not like this all the time. He probably isn't alright though during the week, you just think he is but the underlying problems are still there but more buried. He shows no sign of remorse and or wanting to address his issues.

Its up to you ultimately as their Mother; your children have no voice. One thing though, they won't likely thank you for staying with such a man longer term.

You are only responsible for your own self as well as your children. Not him, you are not responsible for him.

It?s a misconception that an abusive relationship is violent all the time. If a partner was violent and abusive all the time and from the outset of a relationship, you?d be unlikely to get into a relationship with him ? or to stay with him very long if you had. This is what makes it so difficult for women to walk away from an abusive relationship. Often a woman doesn?t want the relationship to end, she just wants the violence to stop. However, unless he?s addressing the reasons for his violence towards you, remember that it?s likely to happen again. Unfortunately what usually happens is that the abuse increases both in frequency and severity over time. It might help to talk to someone who help you look at your options.

www.womensaid.org.uk

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